Guild Wars 2

>> Heck, a thief can engage from way further away and deal better burst, but they’re not overpowered

Can you describe how? The thief can trait for a long range steal and that is about it. All of the other teleports have a lower range then ranger LB.

Now the issue here of course is bugs and the terrain problems with those teleports. The longer the range the greater the chance they fail.

Quite frankly I think the trait “assassins equilibrium” should also/or give that stability after a teleport.

As to rangers on that rapid fire. I am finding I can avoid that with a dodge but the AA hits hard as well. As I am specced pistol/pistol its often a matter of who gets that first shot in. A teleport skill like shadowshot is essential in dealing with them but it HAS to work.

babazhook.6805:

As to rangers on that rapid fire. I am finding I can avoid that with a dodge but the AA hits hard as well. As I am specced pistol/pistol its often a matter of who gets that first shot in. A teleport skill like shadowshot is essential in dealing with them but it HAS to work.

yep, ranger defenders are practically defending the class like bad thieves at the end of the day. As much as I want ranger to receive a buff, these learn to dodge threads are pointless. Where is the magical ranger who only does damage pew pew rapid fire? Did ranger forget they have other skills to ensure it. Their auto attack is also very strong too. Even then, rapid fire is already strong on its own with a low cd unlike 100b. I want better arguments defending the skills. In fact, read more weakness of the actual class. I dont want to read about rangers saying learn 2 dodge when they ignore that they have other damaging skills

Rapid fire isn’t issue, being bursted and hit mid of dodge is. Even if i hit 2 dodges in a row i still eat full RF right now or just about any attacks. Today my dodge got interrupted, yes, dodge got interrupted by ranger. Idk what they did to dodge but it is not working 100%

well, if people can’t handle rapid fire builds… just wait til trapper-rune remorseless greatsword rangers start “mauling” everyone. /chuckle

vincecontix.1264:

To much damage and to rewarding for simply pressing 2 from 1500 range. There auto attack also hurt quite alot.

This isnt’ a new developement, just took a stupid amount of buffs for people to grow some balls and actually try glass cannon longbow. some of us have been doing this for quite some time.

Junkpile.7439:

This rapid fire boost is like give nuke launch codes to chimp.

lol good one.

It’s dangerous to go alone.Take this!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXsE5TMN1-M

Sebrent.3625:

I die because:
(1) A herd of players runs over me
(2) A good player forces me to use dodges and defensive cooldowns … and then hits me with what he really wanted to hit me with.
(3) I waste dodge/defensive cooldowns and get punished for it when something big hits me.

I don’t die because some player presses #2 while using a Ranger longbow.

This exactly. You die because 5 rangers pewpew you? Suck it up, you would’ve died to 5 players anyway, no matter what professions they use. The only difference is that those 5 players don’t have to run up to you.

how i deal with longbow rangers…

Cast whirlwind defence (watch them hit themselves like hell)
Use path of scars (they get pulled close range)
Simply hammer their face with my greatsword (took 2 hit to finish if path of scar didnt do the job already)

End of the glass cannon ranger within 5 seconds….

mtpelion.4562:

PanH.1957:

mtpelion.4562:

Bear on the job.6273:

Hundred Blades at 1500 range while moving…seems legit.

So Hundred Blades can be countered with Reflect or Block now? Cool story.

Nah, you only need to move. That’s a special skill you can use with wasd.

Ways to mitigate Hundred Blades:
1. Move out of the way.
2. Dodge.

Ways to mitigate Rapid Fire:
1. Move out of the way (behind an object).
2. Dodge.
3. Reflection.
4. Missile Destruction.
5. Block while at range.

I think that the bigger list of mitigation possibilities certainly counters the fact that it can be used at range and while moving.

or for the whiners complaining about 1500 range hits, backup 3 steps.

I don’t like it one bit. …But that’s because I have no defense at all as a glass Ele and melt to it pretty easily.

ONE THING TO NOTE: It’s not really 1500 range. When getting shot at between ~1300-1500 range, you really just have to strafe and all the shots miss.

A glass ele has no defense … eh?

All Ele:

• You can Dodge
• You can Line of Sight (most eles are fast so this is easier)

2H Staff:

• Burning Retreat is a 1 second evade
• Gust is a knockback … that interrupts channeling
• Magnetic Aura reflects projectiles

MH Scepter:

MH Dagger:

• Burning Speed is a 0.75s evade
• Shocking Aura stuns … that interrupts channeling

OH Dagger:

• Updraft is a knockdown … that interrupts channeling
• Earthquake is a knockdown … that interrupts channeling

OH Focus:

• Comet dazes … that interrupts channeling
• Swirling Wind destroys projectiles
• Gale is a knockdown … that interrupts channeling
• Magnetic Wave reflects projectiles
• Obsidian Flesh provides invulnerability

The least defense you’d have is running MH Scepter + OH Dagger … which still has defenses against longbow.

*Note: I’m well aware of the differing ranges for each … but there isn’t a scenario where you have zero defenses unless you’ve already used all your dodge rolls and various cooldowns.

Vanthian.9267:

mtpelion.4562:

PanH.1957:

mtpelion.4562:

Bear on the job.6273:

Hundred Blades at 1500 range while moving…seems legit.

So Hundred Blades can be countered with Reflect or Block now? Cool story.

Nah, you only need to move. That’s a special skill you can use with wasd.

Ways to mitigate Hundred Blades:
1. Move out of the way.
2. Dodge.

Ways to mitigate Rapid Fire:
1. Move out of the way (behind an object).
2. Dodge.
3. Reflection.
4. Missile Destruction.
5. Block while at range.

I think that the bigger list of mitigation possibilities certainly counters the fact that it can be used at range and while moving.

or for the whiners complaining about 1500 range hits, backup 3 steps.

and you still get hit….

There is a bug/exploit that allow ranger to exceed the 1500 range limit.

i heard the max is actually past 2000 because the way the channel works.

loseridoit.2756:

and you still get hit….

There is a bug/exploit that allow ranger to exceed the 1500 range limit.

i heard the max is actually past 2000 because the way the channel works.

Not a bug. Working as intended. All bow weapons and most other projectiles will keep traveling beyond their maximum range and can travel further on elevated terrain. It’s this way on every profession with bows and it works that way with my elementalist’s staff and scepter projectile auto attacks as well.

It’s been this way since release. I’m honestly baffled at how no one noticed it until the most recent patch.

Kind of goes to show how little attention anyone paid to any ranged weapon in the melee-centric meta, I guess.

Ehecatl.9172:

loseridoit.2756:

and you still get hit….

There is a bug/exploit that allow ranger to exceed the 1500 range limit.

i heard the max is actually past 2000 because the way the channel works.

Not a bug. Working as intended. All bow weapons and most other projectiles will keep traveling beyond their maximum range and can travel further on elevated terrain. It’s this way on every profession with bows and it works that way with my elementalist’s staff and scepter projectile auto attacks as well.

It’s been this way since release. I’m honestly baffled at how no one noticed it until the most recent patch.

Kind of goes to show how little attention anyone paid to any ranged weapon in the melee-centric meta, I guess.

33-40% past max range seems a bit much. Is there any other weapon that goes this far past max range? (I’m assuming the person who tested the 2k range is legit, I haven’t verified his findings)

Sure, I was aware my thief’s Shbow went slightly past the max range due to the arc, but it doesn’t go out to 1200 no matter where I shoot it from.

900 range for shortbow right , 10%=90 20%=180 30%= 270 +3% onther 10-12 yards.

275ish extra yards test it and tell us your findings.

evilapprentice.6379:

33-40% past max range seems a bit much. Is there any other weapon that goes this far past max range? (I’m assuming the person who tested the 2k range is legit, I haven’t verified his findings)

Sure, I was aware my thief’s Shbow went slightly past the max range due to the arc, but it doesn’t go out to 1200 no matter where I shoot it from.

If you’re talking about the same person I think you’re talking about I wouldn’t put too much stalk in his claims. He was using Sick ‘Em to measure 2,000 range and assuming it ALSO had an extended range, even though it’s not a projectile and thus wouldn’t have an extended range at all. So he came to the conclusion that Sick ’Em’s range was 2,200 while also using it as a measuring stick for other skills without first testing Sick ’Em’s range.

I’ll do some testing later tonight if I really have to. Every time someone posts about the longbow’s range they seem to make it even longer than the last. At first people were claiming 1,800, which is about reasonable, but now people are claiming 2,400? I dunno. It feels like an exaggeration being passed off as fact, like the people claiming you can hit 15K damage with Rapid Fire without blowing cooldowns on the Heavy Golem in Heart of the Mists. It’s not possible, but people state it as if it’s a proven fact.

Edit:

I did some testing. The longbow’s max range when traited on flat terrain is only a few steps back from 2,000 range, likely 2,100 or so. So roughly a 30% distance increase, but not the 2,400 that people are projecting.

I tested the throwing axe using Guard as a distance measurement and found that the 900 range axe will travel 1,100-1,200 range just about, which is 20% more than it’s max. I got the same result with the shortbow. However this was assuming the AoE’s center is the point of range, which when tested with Swoop proved not the case.

Using the center of the AoE as the point of max range on Guard showed Swoop only traveled about half the distance of it’s stated 1,100 range. However using the AoE circle’s nearest point to me as a measurement showed Swoop did in fact close the full 1,100 range. If this is true then the shortbow actually has a max projectile range of about 1,300, which would be a 40% range increase.

At any rate, it’s really hard to measure range effectively because we have no clear units to measure with in the game.

Edit 2:

Tested warrior longbow. Bullets don’t keep traveling past their maximum range. Rifle’s range is 1,200. I fired it until I hit it’s maximum range, then switched to longbow. The longbow, untraited, was able to hit the target 1,200 yards away despite having a tooltip range of 1,000. That’s a 20% increase in projectile travel distance.

Lol ok I love my thief and always will, but I have to say it ranger got the buffs they needed, they have been the red headed step child alot. All classes have been nerfed/buffed(well except thief) but that is besides the point, thief always bounces back really good. I am glad ranger got it, and just wait the “shiney new toy” iwll go away you see an influx of rangers because tbh the people that roll a ranger because of the buff are baddies and it takes a lil more skill to down them but you do. But the ones that have mained ranger since launch well thats a diff story. Its just the pretty much nerfe across the board(except ranger of course). So think of it like this, Rangers takes 3 steps forward and the other classes take from anywhere 1-3 steps backwards. I dont know but I think anet shouldnt take anything away form ranger bufff honestly look at alot of the other classes and figure out what their end game is…

mtpelion.4562:

PanH.1957:

mtpelion.4562:

Bear on the job.6273:

Hundred Blades at 1500 range while moving…seems legit.

So Hundred Blades can be countered with Reflect or Block now? Cool story.

Nah, you only need to move. That’s a special skill you can use with wasd.

Ways to mitigate Hundred Blades:
1. Move out of the way.
2. Dodge.

Ways to mitigate Rapid Fire:
1. Move out of the way (behind an object).
2. Dodge.
3. Reflection.
4. Missile Destruction.
5. Block while at range.

I think that the bigger list of mitigation possibilities certainly counters the fact that it can be used at range and while moving.

No, it doesn’t. There are not always objects for you to move behind. Whereas moving always counters hundred blades. Anything can move in this game, without traiting for it, equipping certain weapons, utilities, w/e. The threshold for how easy it is to counter HB makes HB balanced as it still does a ton of damage (thus becoming somewhat effective when coupled with CC). Rapid Fire does not need any CC to be effective.

Rapid Fire is stupidly OP imo. The numbers differ a little bit, but it essentially is a Hundred Blades from max range while moving.

The thing is, rangers as a whole aren’t OP because of this one skill, and I don’t really mind Rapid Fire as I traited for a reflect anyway. Besides, rangers deserve a little fun.

Cygnus.6903:

No, it doesn’t. There are not always objects for you to move behind. Whereas moving always counters hundred blades. Anything can move in this game, without traiting for it, equipping certain weapons, utilities, w/e. The threshold for how easy it is to counter HB makes HB balanced as it still does a ton of damage (thus becoming somewhat effective when coupled with CC). Rapid Fire does not need any CC to be effective.

Rapid Fire is stupidly OP imo. The numbers differ a little bit, but it essentially is a Hundred Blades from max range while moving.

The thing is, rangers as a whole aren’t OP because of this one skill, and I don’t really mind Rapid Fire as I traited for a reflect anyway. Besides, rangers deserve a little fun.

Why wasn’t RF stupidly op before patch then? I mean c’mon It is an Overall DPS buff of 15%-20% (now 10.5 sec with CDR before 12.5 sec with CDR + AA from maxrange was stronger anyway) for a weapon rangers were laughed at for using it. Not that i cared… before patch noone knew how to fight LB and now People are actually thinking of Counters for it and you get focused even more in smallscale >.> … In my opinion SotW is way more of a Problem since it’s active is stupidly strong now that you don’t have to invest for it anymore., but still… it’s on a 48 sec CD and predicting and doding the RF from that GIANT ranger and pet shouldn’t be too hard

If you’re going to test, please provide video. Otherwise I could say I tested it and that it only reached 900 yards :-p See the issue?

babazhook.6805:

>> Heck, a thief can engage from way further away and deal better burst, but they’re not overpowered

Can you describe how? The thief can trait for a long range steal and that is about it. All of the other teleports have a lower range then ranger LB.

Now the issue here of course is bugs and the terrain problems with those teleports. The longer the range the greater the chance they fail.

Quite frankly I think the trait “assassins equilibrium” should also/or give that stability after a teleport.

As to rangers on that rapid fire. I am finding I can avoid that with a dodge but the AA hits hard as well. As I am specced pistol/pistol its often a matter of who gets that first shot in. A teleport skill like shadowshot is essential in dealing with them but it HAS to work.

Em a thief can get in anybodys face from ridiculous range

Steal 900, use last cos it doesnt proc unless it can close the gap.

So.

Open with infiltrators signet > 900 range

Chain it into Sword 2 > 1500 range total

Chain it into steal > 2400 range total

When wvwing I sometimes carry shadowstep as well to add another 1200 range, which is a total of 3600 range INSTANTLY.

Here, a pillow for your blown mind.

Jagstang.6912:

then you just might need to learn to evade/reflect/run up to him and just hit him.

Tell me more about how I should learn to evade, reflect, and run up to a ranger sitting just inside of max range, picking me off at half HP while I fight a guard on point.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Tell me more about how I should learn to evade, reflect, and run up to a ranger sitting just inside of max range, picking me off at half HP while I fight a guard on point.

Oh, you’re complaining about being 2v1’d. Lol?

Sebrent.3625:

Oh, you’re complaining about being 2v1’d. Lol?

Iunno, OP is making it seem like dying to Rapid fire is l2p issue, rather than dangerously viable in common situations.

Being 2v1’d is dangerous … regardless of whether one is a ranging plinking at you.

In fact, several builds would actually prefer someone be shooting at them from range as the will simply counter that with line-of-sight, reflect, projectile destruction, etc.

Cam Ron.4170:

run up to him and just hit him:
if you try to run up to a ranger who opens on you from 1500 range, you won’t get halfway before dying,. If you do, that means he is tank spec or isn’t wearing any gear/jewelry

You play a thief, one of your core mechanics is to get to your target quickly, and you have multiple tools to do so.

Ehecatl.9172:

evilapprentice.6379:

33-40% past max range seems a bit much. Is there any other weapon that goes this far past max range? (I’m assuming the person who tested the 2k range is legit, I haven’t verified his findings)

Sure, I was aware my thief’s Shbow went slightly past the max range due to the arc, but it doesn’t go out to 1200 no matter where I shoot it from.

If you’re talking about the same person I think you’re talking about I wouldn’t put too much stalk in his claims. He was using Sick ‘Em to measure 2,000 range and assuming it ALSO had an extended range, even though it’s not a projectile and thus wouldn’t have an extended range at all. So he came to the conclusion that Sick ’Em’s range was 2,200 while also using it as a measuring stick for other skills without first testing Sick ’Em’s range.

I’ll do some testing later tonight if I really have to. Every time someone posts about the longbow’s range they seem to make it even longer than the last. At first people were claiming 1,800, which is about reasonable, but now people are claiming 2,400? I dunno. It feels like an exaggeration being passed off as fact, like the people claiming you can hit 15K damage with Rapid Fire without blowing cooldowns on the Heavy Golem in Heart of the Mists. It’s not possible, but people state it as if it’s a proven fact.

Edit:

I did some testing. The longbow’s max range when traited on flat terrain is only a few steps back from 2,000 range, likely 2,100 or so. So roughly a 30% distance increase, but not the 2,400 that people are projecting.

600 unit extra range is a 40% range increase, not roughly 30% (10% of 1500 is 150, * 4 gives us 600)

Again, assuming your testing was accurate and you aren’t BSing (Which, why would you?), 40% past max range on flat terrain is very good – it clearly counters the idea that you can retreat out of the abilities range easily.

evilapprentice.6379:

600 unit extra range is a 40% range increase, not roughly 30% (10% of 1500 is 150, * 4 gives us 600)

Again, assuming your testing was accurate and you aren’t BSing (Which, why would you?), 40% past max range on flat terrain is very good – it clearly counters the idea that you can retreat out of the abilities range easily.

I mean, anyone can log in and replicate my tests to see for themselves. I can’t make a video, but the whole process took maybe five minutes tops.

Bare in mind that after 1,500 range you have to manually spam the auto attack to launch hits. The weapon also wasn’t designed to function at that range. I don’t have Read the Wind unlocked because I don’t use longbow often so I couldn’t test it’s accuracy at that range against a moving target, but that is also something to take under consideration. Without that grandmaster trait the longbow is barely accurate at 1,000 range, much less 2,000. More tests will be needed to determine how accurate it is with the grandmaster trait.

Of course, if you need a grandmaster trait just to make a weapon effective at what it’s suppose to do that’s a bit of a design flaw in my opinion.

There’s also the fact that the longer the range the attack is coming from the more likely there will be something to break line of sight with. I don’t have a problem fighting most longbow rangers in SPVP because the maps tend to be littered with ways to break line of sight.

There are so many gap closers in the game that there really isn’t an excuse for range to be the sole reason you lost a battle, aside from the ranger sniping you from a vantage point.

loseridoit.2756:

Vanthian.9267:

mtpelion.4562:

PanH.1957:

mtpelion.4562:

Bear on the job.6273:

Hundred Blades at 1500 range while moving…seems legit.

So Hundred Blades can be countered with Reflect or Block now? Cool story.

Nah, you only need to move. That’s a special skill you can use with wasd.

Ways to mitigate Hundred Blades:
1. Move out of the way.
2. Dodge.

Ways to mitigate Rapid Fire:
1. Move out of the way (behind an object).
2. Dodge.
3. Reflection.
4. Missile Destruction.
5. Block while at range.

I think that the bigger list of mitigation possibilities certainly counters the fact that it can be used at range and while moving.

or for the whiners complaining about 1500 range hits, backup 3 steps.

and you still get hit….

There is a bug/exploit that allow ranger to exceed the 1500 range limit.

i heard the max is actually past 2000 because the way the channel works.

Only un-targeted in most situation on certain spots. Try standing slightly back on top of a hill and watch the Ranger “rapid fire” directly into the hill top. It doesn’t take much in this game to LOS. Even then, if the Ranger is at a slightly lower elevation than the target then arrow will not reach past 1500 (if it can even go 1500).

Junkpile.7439:

This rapid fire boost is like give nuke launch codes to chimp.

No, I’m pretty sure that was when Hambow became a thing.

Hepatolith.6389:

Why wasn’t RF stupidly op before patch then? I mean c’mon It is an Overall DPS buff of 15%-20% (now 10.5 sec with CDR before 12.5 sec with CDR + AA from maxrange was stronger anyway) for a weapon rangers were laughed at for using it. Not that i cared… before patch noone knew how to fight LB and now People are actually thinking of Counters for it and you get focused even more in smallscale >.> … In my opinion SotW is way more of a Problem since it’s active is stupidly strong now that you don’t have to invest for it anymore., but still… it’s on a 48 sec CD and predicting and doding the RF from that GIANT ranger and pet shouldn’t be too hard

This is misinformation you are spreading here.

First of all, try increasing HB damage by 20% and watch the forum flood with cries that it is OP.

Second of all, Rapid fire was a 5 second channel, it is now a 2,5 second channel. That’s not a 20% damage boost, it is way more. You can say autoattacking was stronger, but how long can one auto-attack before forced to do something else? The fact you can do your burst damage this easy now is a huge buff.

Last of all, nobody gave a kitten about RF because it was so slow and because the character using it was a free lootbag. Now, with all the new ranger tools, and a 2,5 sec RF, it is quite obvious that RF is over the top.

Ranger as a whole isn’t though.

Cygnus.6903:

Hepatolith.6389:

Why wasn’t RF stupidly op before patch then? I mean c’mon It is an Overall DPS buff of 15%-20% (now 10.5 sec with CDR before 12.5 sec with CDR + AA from maxrange was stronger anyway) for a weapon rangers were laughed at for using it. Not that i cared… before patch noone knew how to fight LB and now People are actually thinking of Counters for it and you get focused even more in smallscale >.> … In my opinion SotW is way more of a Problem since it’s active is stupidly strong now that you don’t have to invest for it anymore., but still… it’s on a 48 sec CD and predicting and doding the RF from that GIANT ranger and pet shouldn’t be too hard

This is misinformation you are spreading here.

First of all, try increasing HB damage by 20% and watch the forum flood with cries that it is OP.

Second of all, Rapid fire was a 5 second channel, it is now a 2,5 second channel. That’s not a 20% damage boost, it is way more. You can say autoattacking was stronger, but how long can one auto-attack before forced to do something else? The fact you can do your burst damage this easy now is a huge buff.

Last of all, nobody gave a kitten about RF because it was so slow and because the character using it was a free lootbag. Now, with all the new ranger tools, and a 2,5 sec RF, it is quite obvious that RF is over the top.

Ranger as a whole isn’t though.

If you Count in the recharge time for rapidfire and the AAs you can do in that time it is in fact a 15%-20% Overall DPS boost to LB on max range. And as i said, i see SotW as more of a Problem than RF itself because you don’t have to decide whether your enemy can just sidestep your shots for Damageincrease or your Arrows are actually going to hit. You can have both of now. As i see it, RF as is is good, but SotW Needs to be reduced to like 10% for ranger and 25% for pet(read that somewhere and i think it’s reasonable), because a 25% damage boost for 8 seconds + Stability without any drawbacks is too much, way too much actually.

Cygnus.6903:

Hepatolith.6389:

Why wasn’t RF stupidly op before patch then? I mean c’mon It is an Overall DPS buff of 15%-20% (now 10.5 sec with CDR before 12.5 sec with CDR + AA from maxrange was stronger anyway) for a weapon rangers were laughed at for using it. Not that i cared… before patch noone knew how to fight LB and now People are actually thinking of Counters for it and you get focused even more in smallscale >.> … In my opinion SotW is way more of a Problem since it’s active is stupidly strong now that you don’t have to invest for it anymore., but still… it’s on a 48 sec CD and predicting and doding the RF from that GIANT ranger and pet shouldn’t be too hard

This is misinformation you are spreading here.

First of all, try increasing HB damage by 20% and watch the forum flood with cries that it is OP.

Second of all, Rapid fire was a 5 second channel, it is now a 2,5 second channel. That’s not a 20% damage boost, it is way more. You can say autoattacking was stronger, but how long can one auto-attack before forced to do something else? The fact you can do your burst damage this easy now is a huge buff.

Last of all, nobody gave a kitten about RF because it was so slow and because the character using it was a free lootbag. Now, with all the new ranger tools, and a 2,5 sec RF, it is quite obvious that RF is over the top.

Ranger as a whole isn’t though.

Who is spreading misinformation here? There was no damage increase on RF. Only DPS. What this does? It creates burst for rangers. They didn’t have any before. They have better sustained damge of course, but they still have craptastic defense in return. You say the channel decrease is a huge buff, but its also less reliable, because you can dodge more of it.

“it is quite ovcious that RF is over the top” is your oppinion. You can have that of course, just don’t spread it like its a fact.

… its cuz some random nailed you with #4 from max range when you werent looking.

Never die vs. a ranger 1 v 1, but if I’m busy dealing with some one else… that rapid fire will probably destroy me. Its not a L2P problem its the fact more then one thing can be going on at one time and you don’t always know they are going to start bursting you down.

Kaamau.5341:

Never die vs. a ranger 1 v 1, but if I’m busy dealing with some one else… that rapid fire will probably destroy me. Its not a L2P problem its the fact more then one thing can be going on at one time and you don’t always know they are going to start bursting you down.

How is this different from any other profession?

Kaamau.5341:

Never die vs. a ranger 1 v 1, but if I’m busy dealing with some one else… that rapid fire will probably destroy me. Its not a L2P problem its the fact more then one thing can be going on at one time and you don’t always know they are going to start bursting you down.

A thief can do the same thing with a backstab. Except the backstab will down you immediately where as you still have a chance to dodge most of Rapid Fire before the channel is completed.

Ehecatl.9172:

Kaamau.5341:

Never die vs. a ranger 1 v 1, but if I’m busy dealing with some one else… that rapid fire will probably destroy me. Its not a L2P problem its the fact more then one thing can be going on at one time and you don’t always know they are going to start bursting you down.

A thief can do the same thing with a backstab. Except the backstab will down you immediately where as you still have a chance to dodge most of Rapid Fire before the channel is completed.

thief also has to go into melee risking to get downed himself in crossfire + backstab like many other high burst skills usually have certain set up… where ranger has 0 set up and can fire his “backstab” from safe range

Cynz.9437:

thief also has to go into melee risking to get downed himself in crossfire + backstab like many other high burst skills usually have certain set up… where ranger has 0 set up and can fire his “backstab” from safe range

It’s not that huge of a risk if the enemy is already at half health and engaging someone else. Thief also has vastly superior tools to disengage if things go badly, so the ranger needs that range to survive delivering their burst at all. Maul is a pretty good burst on it’s own. There’s a reason you never saw zerker rangers running around using Maul to do the same thing they’re doing now with Rapid Fire.

I’m just saying, every burst build will kill you if you’re already fighting someone else. That’s the entire point of these builds, to quickly shut someone down when they are most vulnerable. Getting mad at one profession for ganking you when your defenses are down and not another is a wee bit hypocritical.

nagymbear.5280:

Who is spreading misinformation here? There was no damage increase on RF. Only DPS. What this does? It creates burst for rangers. They didn’t have any before. They have better sustained damge of course, but they still have craptastic defense in return. You say the channel decrease is a huge buff, but its also less reliable, because you can dodge more of it.

“it is quite ovcious that RF is over the top” is your oppinion. You can have that of course, just don’t spread it like its a fact.

Yeah, this is where you need to invision yourself using RF in combat.

Duh, it is a DPS increase of said 15-20% compaired to the old RF/auto attack.

It is also a damage increase when fighting other players, though. This is when looking at the skill from a combat perspective.

Before, a 4,5 second (I think it was?) channel time was long enough for your target to do something to mitigate most of the damage (interrupt, LoS, block, w/e). Now, you have to react way faster. And if the ranger is half decent, he will bait out the obvious counter to this skill (dodge) before unleashing it. Hell, he can use it once to bait out the first dodge, then use it again a mere 10 seconds later.

So on paper, it is a DPS increase, not damage. In actual practice though, it is a damage increase for sure.

Ehecatl.9172:

Cynz.9437:

thief also has to go into melee risking to get downed himself in crossfire + backstab like many other high burst skills usually have certain set up… where ranger has 0 set up and can fire his “backstab” from safe range

It’s not that huge of a risk if the enemy is already at half health and engaging someone else. Thief also has vastly superior tools to disengage if things go badly, so the ranger needs that range to survive delivering their burst at all. Maul is a pretty good burst on it’s own. There’s a reason you never saw zerker rangers running around using Maul to do the same thing they’re doing now with Rapid Fire.

I’m just saying, every burst build will kill you if you’re already fighting someone else. That’s the entire point of these builds, to quickly shut someone down when they are most vulnerable. Getting mad at one profession for ganking you when your defenses are down and not another is a wee bit hypocritical.

where did i say ANYTHING about being shut down while being half HP? i am talking in generall… no matter how you put it ranger is only class atm that has no set up for their “backstabs” and can fire those from really long range

the pressure you can put on a point be it graveyard or clocktower is insane (not to mention that by the time your enemy actually makes it up the roof they are probably dead or burned all their CDs for your 8 sec backstab) and you don’t even need to commit into team fight while thieves for example despite their disengages still have to put themself at risk to get one shot by crossfire

ranger dmg isn’t issue really, the risk or rather lack of it is

i personally can deal with most rangers running RF build (as long as steal/signet/shs don’t bug out), only because i play thief mainly and have enough moblity/dazes for them but i saw what rangers can do when i played thief with my friend ranger, we would just delete enemies from points no matter what build/class they ran… it was stupid

Cynz.9437:

where did i say ANYTHING about being shut down while being half HP? i am talking in generall… no matter how you put it ranger is only class atm that has no set up for their “backstabs” and can fire those from really long range

the pressure you can put on a point be it graveyard or clocktower is insane (not to mention that by the time your enemy actually makes it up the roof they are probably dead or burned all their CDs for your 8 sec backstab) and you don’t even need to commit into team fight while thieves for example despite their disengages still have to put themself at risk to get one shot by crossfire

ranger dmg isn’t issue really, the risk or rather lack of it is

i personally can deal with most rangers running RF build (as long as steal/signet/shs don’t bug out), only because i play thief mainly and have enough moblity/dazes for them but i saw what rangers can do when i played thief with my friend ranger, we would just delete enemies from points no matter what build/class they ran… it was stupid

The person I was responding to when you quoted me was talking specifically about rangers coming in and attacking him while he’s busy fighting someone else. I assumed you were talking about the same scenario since you quoted me.

The pressure they put on a point is the entire reason the build exists. It’s the only reason, actually. Longbow ranger is a fairly poor dueling build so if you wanted a roamer you’d probably do better with a good thief. If you want someone to sit off point and apply pressure in team fights then you’d grab a ranger, though that ranger would have to hope no one on the enemy team decides to take them by surprise.

As you’ve noted thieves are really good at bringing down longbow rangers, especially if the thief catches the ranger trying to snipe someone off. I’ve seen videos of mesmers handling them too. In fact over the past week a lot of the complaints have shifted. Originally people were claiming the longbow was unbeatable because no one could close the distance, but now people seem to have shifted to admitting they can take the longbow ranger in duels but are struggling with them in team fights. In other words, people have already started learning how to deal with the longbow rangers out in the open, which is a sign of progress.

Given a few more weeks and I wouldn’t be surprised if longbow ranger complaints die out almost completely. It’s still so early to just declare them overpowered.

Cynz.9437:

Ehecatl.9172:

Cynz.9437:

thief also has to go into melee risking to get downed himself in crossfire + backstab like many other high burst skills usually have certain set up… where ranger has 0 set up and can fire his “backstab” from safe range

It’s not that huge of a risk if the enemy is already at half health and engaging someone else. Thief also has vastly superior tools to disengage if things go badly, so the ranger needs that range to survive delivering their burst at all. Maul is a pretty good burst on it’s own. There’s a reason you never saw zerker rangers running around using Maul to do the same thing they’re doing now with Rapid Fire.

I’m just saying, every burst build will kill you if you’re already fighting someone else. That’s the entire point of these builds, to quickly shut someone down when they are most vulnerable. Getting mad at one profession for ganking you when your defenses are down and not another is a wee bit hypocritical.

where did i say ANYTHING about being shut down while being half HP? i am talking in generall… no matter how you put it ranger is only class atm that has no set up for their “backstabs” and can fire those from really long range

the pressure you can put on a point be it graveyard or clocktower is insane (not to mention that by the time your enemy actually makes it up the roof they are probably dead or burned all their CDs for your 8 sec backstab) and you don’t even need to commit into team fight while thieves for example despite their disengages still have to put themself at risk to get one shot by crossfire

ranger dmg isn’t issue really, the risk or rather lack of it is

i personally can deal with most rangers running RF build (as long as steal/signet/shs don’t bug out), only because i play thief mainly and have enough moblity/dazes for them but i saw what rangers can do when i played thief with my friend ranger, we would just delete enemies from points no matter what build/class they ran… it was stupid

Rifle warriors and zerk mesmers can do the same thing. They can also disengage more easily. The reason you rarely see this is because 1 trick builds are worthless in the long run. These baby rangers will come to that conclusion eventually and change their builds or go back to their other characters.

Considering a fully traited volley only does about 10% less damage than Rapid Fire does, it’s hard to believe the skill’s damage, channel time, or cooldown is the problem.

If damage really is the issue we want to focus on there are only a few things left to look at. Either it’s the vulnerability stacks (which is unlikely because a warrior can stack 8 vuln via another skill) or it’s Signet of the Wild’d use in conjunction with the skill.

Seems to me the issue revolves around SotW more than anything.

Atherakhia.4086:

Considering a fully traited volley only does about 10% less damage than Rapid Fire does, it’s hard to believe the skill’s damage, channel time, or cooldown is the problem.

If damage really is the issue we want to focus on there are only a few things left to look at. Either it’s the vulnerability stacks (which is unlikely because a warrior can stack 8 vuln via another skill) or it’s Signet of the Wild’d use in conjunction with the skill.

Seems to me the issue revolves around SotW more than anything.

Yeah I was playing around in build editor and thought the same thing. Got RF to 3680, and volley up to 3390. Same cooldown, same cast time and just about the same damage.

So those being nearly even, I compared the rest to see what the huge difference is.

Knockback on LB is ranged, which is useful for getting the burst in.
Barrage has high AOE damage for adding pressure.
Brutal shot vuln can be added before volley burst.
LB AA higher at range, smaller close up.
Rifle has more reliable cripple.
Killshot does about the damage of a full barrage, if you can land it.
LB has 3s of stealth.

So, it may not be the burst that sets them apart, but there are pros for both sets. What it really comes down to though is damage multipliers, like you mentioned. Beyond the 25% from SotW, rangers can sit at ~35% base multiplier. While the warrior sits at 28% with full berserker’s power (15% on full a.bar) plus maybe a bit more if you take destruction of the empowered. But you can’t start a fight with the full damage burst on warrior like you can with ranger.

Both classes can use greatsword and run away after too.

Good job on ranger i tought you could’ve done it to be immortal maybe? Cooldown on rapid fire? Why even need to be one, they can spam it either way. Damage increased on every single skill? Balanced . They were strong to begin with but those whining people didnt know how to use it so lets make it even more OP. About the thiefes. You could’ve just deleted the thief, not nerfing to the unuseable category. Thiefes werent OP, people just didnt know how to play against it so instead of making them learn it you just killed it.
All i can say is good job on the ‘trash’ you gave called as balancing patch!

Cynz.9437:

ranger dmg isn’t issue really, the risk or rather lack of it is

Dodge once. You’ve negated at least 30% of their burst. Dodge twice, you’ve negated around 60% of it. The faster use means it’s far easier to avoid/block the damage, since most blocks are on at least a 3 second charge. Not to mention you can reflect the move and at that point it’s too late for them to stop it, so they kill themselves. The fast use IS the risk of the move, it’s far too easy to lessen the damage from it or send it back their way before they can stop it.

While it’s true RF is on an 8 second cooldown, for them to have that burst means they’re sacrificing all defense for it. The second you get into their face their attacks with LB will do crap damage and they will fold quite fast. Hell, condi-bombing with a necro’s Signet of Spite wrecks them instantly, because they have no way to get rid of those conditions.

The dangerous Rangers are the ones who actually run S/D as their 2nd set, and know how to use it…but I’ve seen more noobs using LB without switching than I have the good players, sadly.

Necro’s still say hi..

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Necro’s still say hi..

Reminder…

Hell, condi-bombing with a necro’s Signet of Spite wrecks them instantly, because they have no way to get rid of those conditions.