Guild Wars 2

I can 1v1 pretty much anyone in pvp on my necro, except for mesmers. It seems like there unkillable to me. Even 2v1 with a guardian with me we we’re unable to kill one it was pretty much a stalemate where he could either heal or run away. Are there classes that are better suited at handling mesmers or are they just generally OP in pvp compared with other classes?

The problem is mesmer can kite that’s all.
In “real” pvp matches there’s no time for fighting off point so kitting mesmer = useless mesmer.
They are not OP, I wouldn’t even categorize them into “strong” class. Thing that saves them are portal and stealth which are amaizing utility skills.

tl;dr L2P

I don’t even ask you to take a mesmer and fight with it, just try to lvl it, come to this post and reread what you’ve said.
You’ll see how wrong you are…

Contrary to belief – Longbow or Trap rangers usually have an easy time with mesmers. I say usually, depending on the mesmer running certain traits such as Reflect on distortion/blur.

Thieves, depending on builds, usually deal with them in a fairly easy manner.

Other professions may or may not struggle, trick is generally to either lay down excessively high single target damage (they are not good at dealing with lots of heavy hits) or repetitive condition spam.

Now, necromancers are very strong with conditions, however mesmer is equally good at manipulating/removing them. unfortunately, the necromancer is very bad at repetitive spam. It can land huge condition bombs with ease, and if it has some help, it can spam condi bombs around with epidemic. But on its own, the necromancer is too slow at applying medium-high stacks to apply consistent pressure, and that is what you need.

Also help if you can lay down AOE chill to slow down attack rate and movement of clones/phantasms. That usually helps you pinpoint the mesmer (as they usually run around frantically)

If power necro – build for as much AOE DPS as you can, and do not burn ALL your wells/marks at once, use them sequentially to cover the terrain with damaging attacks all over so the mesmer cannot move around so easily.

Mesmers are actually arguably UP in PvP.

Remember PvP is more about capture points, not kill people 1v1. The good 1v1 mesmer builds usually do very poorly in team fight. The tanky PU condition mesmer is not good choice to either defend or capture a point.

Play a mesmer yourself, you will understand better.

Is it condi PU bunkers? The thing with condi PU is that if you have good cleansing and you can stand on the point, you can steal it from them, and sometimes even cap it, while you’re still dueling. They have good sustained output, but far less ability to do a real proactive condi-burst than a necro does; instead they’re relying on you screwing yourself on their blocks and clone death.

ASP is correct. They are letting you hurt your self. Watch for the tells which are block and don’t blindly attack the clones, they will bleed you a little bit or hurt you a lot more if killed. Wait for the mes to make himself known if faced with invis spam and last, Do not stay in a triangle of clones if he shatters often. Back off so all clones are to one side of you and shatters can be totally negated with a dodge or by running the other way when they come towards you.

Hmm maybe I just need to try out staff again, but generally i dont use wells for pvp nobody ever stands in them long enough to be effective imo.

If its a good pu condi memser you really dont have a chance unless you are exceptional players yourself.

1. Watch for scepter block do not attack the torment alone can do 10k+ damage is not cleansed.

2. What out for confusion they can stack pretty high.

3. Really think before you attack becuase killing clones will give you condi but if you dont kill them they will stack condition on you. Mainly kill iduelist if mesmer running pistol.

4. Pay attention if you get a bunch of condi thrown back on you mean mesmer if running arcane thievery.

If you dont attack them you will take less damage. That all you need to do survive and hold the point dodge kite and do the above and you will not die. The conquest game mode is not about killing its about holding cap points.

That type of mesmer cant hold points well(stealth to much), little group support, and low mobility. Its godly in duels and wvw roaming but its a bad spvp build for serious matches. Next time dont aim to kill the mesmer just kite dont attack the clones and see how long you survive.

Munkee.3951:

I can 1v1 pretty much

I think your problem starts before we get to Necro vs Mesmer.

Mesmer is completely OP, in WvW

Chokolata.1870:

Mesmer is completely OP, in WvW

PU mesmers are overpowered Chokolata. Even out of the PU mesmers, the condi-PU mesmers to be more specific. PU Clone Death is a great way to punish those face rollers.

Easy way to counter it, is to pick your fights and avoid it. The problem is mesmers are under powered in “non” PU builds or people are to lazy to play more skill orientated builds. If we were to point fingers at whats over powered, we should also look at condi thieves, condi warriors, those anoying spirit rangers in spvp and such. I think for mesmers who want to play casually PU is their only choice.

PU isn’t overpowered in any situation, unless you think that simply surviving is overpowered. That is what PU can do best, survive. Other than that in PvP they can’t hold points. There are some good PU Mesmers, who are able to distract 2, sometimes even 3 players in PvP on a cap point and thereby creating an advantage for the rest of their team. But I haven’t seen that regularly.

Other than that in WvW they don’t kill kitten. If you have problems against them, disengage, they won’t be able to follow, cuz they are slow as kitten, and reengage once you healed up.

Personally – especially in WvW – I have almost never problems against PU Mesmers. They are very very predictable. And especially if you can stay ranged (generally a good idea against condition builds), they won’t really hurt you much.

@Doom: thats what I am talking about

TyPin.9860:

PU isn’t overpowered in any situation, unless you think that simply surviving is overpowered. That is what PU can do best, survive. Other than that in PvP they can’t hold points. There are some good PU Mesmers, who are able to distract 2, sometimes even 3 players in PvP on a cap point and thereby creating an advantage for the rest of their team. But I haven’t seen that regularly.

Other than that in WvW they don’t kill kitten. If you have problems against them, disengage, they won’t be able to follow, cuz they are slow as kitten, and reengage once you healed up.

Personally – especially in WvW – I have almost never problems against PU Mesmers. They are very very predictable. And especially if you can stay ranged (generally a good idea against condition builds), they won’t really hurt you much.

So wrong in wvw and duels pu condi or hybrid is almost unbeatable. There are variations of pu builds. The scepter/torch/staff bearly any pro active damage can be kite and igorned, kill them last in group encounter.

Then you have the scepter/pistol/sword/torch version which can do a decent amount of damage. Very strong very easy to play, the weakness of this like many other mesmer build is low mobility. Though if you stay an fight you going to have a very tough time of it.

PU is pretty op in 1v1s, where mobility doesn’t matter as much or no points have to be hold. Sadly, the trait is keeping the mesmer down, because outside of it the class has some serious issues.

Chokolata.1870:

Mesmer is completely OP, in meaningless 1v1 staged in the WvW zones

FTFY.
We are incredibly weak for actual WvW.

Carighan.6758:

Chokolata.1870:

Mesmer is completely OP, in meaningless 1v1 staged in the WvW zones

FTFY.
We are incredibly weak.

FTFY.
All we can do is bring utility.
Everyday, I go into PUG runs and pour my whole being into doing my Mesmer duty. I watch enemy animations, drop proper reflects, AoE Stability, AoE Condition Clear. Defiance clearing so I can in turn interrupt a strong attack or a Heal. Potentially just spam heals in iffy situations (Mantra healing sucks, but sometimes people really need it). Solo stealth runs as if I’m a Thief → Portal group to next section. Swap to proper Phantasms for different scenario’s (Disenchanter, Duelist, Warden… annnnnd that’s pretty much it).

Instead, I get blamed whenever something goes wrong. My DPS is also so insignificant that it’s more efficient, in bad groups, for me to play full support than full DPS. I’m wearing full ascended Assassins with Berserker Trinkets. I can take out Lupicus’ Phase 2 with one Feedback assuming everyone knows how to stand inside the giant, safe, mesmer happy circle.

I drop waypoints in minimaps, type instructions in party chat, and then get yelled at for not dropping a portal. I’m supposed, nay, expected to do all of this without fail (bar skipping content, although once I have, the portals are expected) every time. I’m also being told how to play my profession by people who have never played it and think that Illusion of Life is a real revive skill. I’m being told how to use portal, because I’ve never used it before. I’m being told that they don’t understand the concept of what I’m trying to do when I tell them to walk onto the big circle of light and press F. By the time they understand that concept, it disappeared so I have to wait another 62 or 80 seconds to do it again.

Oh, and senpai doesn’t notice me.

Let me get this straight, you as a NECRO can beat ALL classes but 1? Yeah its definitely that 1 class that’s OP.
Logic…do you speak it?

Mesmer is OP thread?

./ Popcorn

jportell.2197:

Mesmer is OP thread?

./ Popcorn

Indeed.

Good necro should melt most mesmer builds, or at the very least force them to run away and kite.

Prysin.8542:

<snip> Now, necromancers are very strong with conditions, however mesmer is equally good at manipulating/removing them. unfortunately, the necromancer is very bad at repetitive spam. It can land huge condition bombs with ease, and if it has some help, it can spam condi bombs around with epidemic. But on its own, the necromancer is too slow at applying medium-high stacks to apply consistent pressure, and that is what you need.

<snip>

This is not true – mesmers have very poor condition removal and will melt under condition spam, unless traiting for stupid builds that have no damage pressure (ie 6 inspiration, shattered conditions, full mantras with restorative mantras and mender’s purity… then yes, decent condition removal at the expense of pathetic dps).

Esplen.3940:

Oh, and senpai doesn’t notice me.

Watch Mirai Nikki for ideas on what to do. Yuno is a good inspiration.

Necros should have the easiest time vs a Mesmer.

I main a necro and in no way do I find mesmers OP it’s just a L2P issue. I hate people who get beat by said X class and assume that class must be OP.

Mesmer OP?

Do you realise that mesmers are literally trash tier in every single game mode?

vincecontix.1264:

TyPin.9860:

[…]

Other than that in WvW they don’t kill kitten. If you have problems against them, disengage, they won’t be able to follow, cuz they are slow as kitten, and reengage once you healed up.

[…]

So wrong in wvw and duels pu condi or hybrid is almost unbeatable. There are variations of pu builds. The scepter/torch/staff bearly any pro active damage can be kite and igorned, kill them last in group encounter.

Then you have the scepter/pistol/sword/torch version which can do a decent amount of damage. Very strong very easy to play, the weakness of this like many other mesmer build is low mobility. Though if you stay an fight you going to have a very tough time of it.

I have shortened my quote to the important part. PU, even in WvW can be outplayed/survived easily. I was even accused often to have used PU, even when I have 0 point in Chaos. It simply shows that the majority of players don’t understand how weak actually condi mesmer is, especially the PU condi mesmser. They can survive very good, but they don’t real damage, if you know hot to deal with them. There are PU power variations or even hybrid. Still, they sacrifice damage or utility or even both. IDueleist or iZerker can hit hard, but their damage can also be easily avoided. The mesmer himself does kitten damage, so kill the phantasms, best fro range and laugh about the mesmer…

And if you have problems… well then simply go away. He won’t catch up with you.

maha.7902:

Mesmer OP?

Do you realise that mesmers are literally trash tier in every single game mode?

WvW. Your argument is now invalid.

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

Mesmer OP?

Do you realise that mesmers are literally trash tier in every single game mode?

WvW. Your argument is now invalid.

Mesmers are strong only for WvW roaming, and only with one type of build. Try playing a mesmer in groups in WvW and let us know how OP that feels.

storiessave.3807:

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

Mesmer OP?

Do you realise that mesmers are literally trash tier in every single game mode?

WvW. Your argument is now invalid.

Mesmers are strong only for WvW roaming, and only with one type of build. Try playing a mesmer in groups in WvW and let us know how OP that feels.

I was referring to the trash tier. Mesmers are incredibly useful in WvW, they’re far from trash.

Munkee.3951:

I can 1v1 pretty much anyone in pvp on my necro, except for mesmers.

So, because you can kill everyone else but can’t handle mesmer’s that means mesmer is the OP one?

K.

So, in general, when you post about class balance, you should say something more than “I fought this guy and I lost.” Talk about why you think the mechanics of class A give it a huge advantage over class B, name some specific builds, &c.

Otherwise all you get is anecdotes and “l2p.” Because there’s nothing to really respond to.

Minion master necro who gets moa’d?

That’s about the only situation, Moa would be considered remotely useful.

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

Mesmer OP?

Do you realise that mesmers are literally trash tier in every single game mode?

WvW. Your argument is now invalid.

Drop veil then… do nothing? This is like saying rangers are good because healing spring.

maha.7902:

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

Mesmer OP?

Do you realise that mesmers are literally trash tier in every single game mode?

WvW. Your argument is now invalid.

Drop veil then… do nothing? This is like saying rangers are good because healing spring.

Yes, because it’s not like having a single utility skill prevents usefulness in WvW…OH WAIT IT DOESN’T. Mesmers are the reason why you have people on defense in keeps and towers and why they’re constantly sweeping, a single mesmer port can cause a tower/keep to flip in a minute. A Mesmer can be considered the single most important class in WvW for this reason.

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

Mesmer OP?

Do you realise that mesmers are literally trash tier in every single game mode?

WvW. Your argument is now invalid.

Drop veil then… do nothing? This is like saying rangers are good because healing spring.

Yes, because it’s not like having a single utility skill prevents usefulness in WvW…OH WAIT IT DOESN’T. Mesmers are the reason why you have people on defense in keeps and towers and why they’re constantly sweeping, a single mesmer port can cause a tower/keep to flip in a minute. A Mesmer can be considered the single most important class in WvW for this reason.

Portal and veil justify the usefulness of mesmer…

I know – why don’t they simply delete everything in the class and just give us two buttons – one for portal and one for veil. Not like it will make much difference in large scale wvw.

Oh and PU justifies roaming…

And mostly Shattered Concentration plus Portal (and a bit of phase retreat) justify pvp…
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Now for my serious thought – please Anet for the love of Eternal Alchemy, delete Portal and Veil from the game. Then mesmer class balance can be properly addressed.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Mesmers are the reason why you have people on defense in keeps and towers

Err, what? The other team being able to ram their way in in a minute if you don’t have people already in place to man your ACs/mortars/cannons/trebs it he reason is the reason you have people on defense.

RyuDragnier.9476:

and why they’re constantly sweeping, a single mesmer port can cause a tower/keep to flip in a minute.

Sweeping is pretty quick and only requires a very small part of your force. I’m pretty sure if you counted up all the time people spend chasing dolyak-sniping thieves fruitlessly it would be more than an order of magnitude greater than the time people spend sweeping for mesmers. Not to mention all the time people spend chasing thieves who literally do nothing.

RyuDragnier.9476:

A Mesmer can be considered the single most important class in WvW for this reason.

Even though Veil and Portal are great skills, a group with zero mesmers isn’t terribly disadvantaged compared to a group with some. Now try fighting ZvZ with no eles.

And the ideal mesmer count for a group of any size is basically… 1-2.

Curunen.8729:

I know – why don’t they simply delete everything in the class and just give us two buttons – one for portal and one for veil. Not like it will make much difference in large scale wvw.

Portal, Veil, and a third skill, based on Holiday Blues – Veil, Portal bomb, kill yourself (FOR MASSIVE AOE DEGEN) because your job is done

Pretty much yes, PU Condi Mesmer’s are OP in WvW. More so, the question should be, what does this combat style add to the game? I never heard anyone express fun or joy after taking on a PU Condi Mesmer. It’s not really the Mesmer’s fault, it’s still an issue of Perplexity Runes plus Dire gear on a Mesmer with DE.

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

Mesmer OP?

Do you realise that mesmers are literally trash tier in every single game mode?

WvW. Your argument is now invalid.

Drop veil then… do nothing? This is like saying rangers are good because healing spring.

Yes, because it’s not like having a single utility skill prevents usefulness in WvW…OH WAIT IT DOESN’T. Mesmers are the reason why you have people on defense in keeps and towers and why they’re constantly sweeping, a single mesmer port can cause a tower/keep to flip in a minute. A Mesmer can be considered the single most important class in WvW for this reason.

It’s a completely unrewarding class to play, which is why a lot of us don’t find it fun. One skill does not justify being completely useless the other 90% of the time (you know, when we’re not using the 3 total utility skills we’re wanted for).

You can help a zerg a lot by playing an ele, too…only difference is, those of us on eles actually get rewarded for using skills.

DeWolfe.2174:

Pretty much yes, PU Condi Mesmer’s are OP in WvW. More so, the question should be, what does this combat style add to the game? I never heard anyone express fun or joy after taking on a PU Condi Mesmer. It’s not really the Mesmer’s fault, it’s still an issue of Perplexity Runes plus Dire gear on a Mesmer with DE.

I find it a lot fun wrecking basically every pu condi mesmer I see in wvw.

GAIZ, GAIZ, MESMER IZ OP!!!!11111oneone
DOND ASK ORGUMENDZ BUD ITZ TRUE ME DONT LAI/ THA BEST GW2 CLASS / ALL ROLL2MESMERS.

VALVE ANET FIX IT PLS

Step 1: Give Veil to thiefs, give Portal to eles.
Step 2: Delete mesmer profession.

Result: Noone, in not a single game mode would miss the mesmer profession in GW2.

For some reason, this thread makes me incredibly sad.

Nah… they will next patch move Shattered Conditions into illusions trait line at master level and then shatter mesmer will be truly OP.

TyPin.9860:

Nah… they will next patch move Shattered Conditions into illusions trait line at master level and then shatter mesmer will be truly OP.

I want this to happen.

Actually I don’t think it would be OP, because it would require dropping either iInvigoration or iElasticity.

This would tone down the GS/Staff shatter if they choose to take shattered conditions and allow all other weapon sets to be on a similar level.

It would also free up the condi removal utility slot (ie Mantra of Resolve) and allow for flexibility in a utility slot (given that decoy and blink are almost mandatory) – for mirror images, portal, veil, mimic, AT or whatever you want.

Shatter needs this kind of condi removal to fully solidify the build. I don’t think moving this trat would affect tpvp much at all, given the shatter build of choice has more use of iElasticity – if anything it would give other weapon sets a good alternative (ie scepter/pistol or sword/focus) to be on par with the GS/Staff meta build.

It would also certainly give shatter much more viability in wvw roaming.

So yes, please do move Shattered Conditions to Illusions Master Major, and swap it with something like one of the glamour traits or phantasmal haste.

If PH was in Dom, that would be kind of ridiculous…

Esplen.3940:

If PH was in Dom, that would be kind of ridiculous…

Inspiration, not Dom…

Sebbl.2806:

For some reason, this thread makes me incredibly sad.

I feel the same way, but mostly because of how delusional people in this thread are that the Mesmer profession is bottom of the barrel when it’s not (that’s Rangers, Thieves, and Necros). Ironic considering Mesmers delude other people…guess the delusions finally hit the players?

Rangers, the class getting big buffs , thieves which are used to an extent in all three game formats, and necros which are solid in wvw, have access to numerous solid PvP builds and capable of pulling off competitive dps in pve. Mesmer – the class which is completely phased out of PvP, absolute trash tier in open world an instancd pve (they are literally replaceable by a consumable) and in wvw you drop a veil and call it quits. So no. I’ve played Mesmer, I like Mesmer and wanted it to work, but it doesn’t. The OP is just a bad player who for dumped on by the worst class in the entire game and wants to just call them overpowered rather than try to improve.