Guild Wars 2

Again, this only applies to fire fields. (note, this also could be an spvp only change.)

If you nerf might stacking to say, 2 stacks instead of 3 and cut the duration by 33% from base, this would solve so many issues. (the numbers can be tweaked, really.) The damage from certain specs would be reduced to an appropriate level. We don’t need to nerf celestial, battle sigils, strength runes or classes.

Professions like engi, ele and war are the only ones who have decent access to fire fields+blasts. These are the problem classes. Correlation much? If might stacking via fire fields were nerfed, the problematic classes would be brought in line while not nerfing might for other classes.

Agree? Disagree? And why?

If there is going to be a nerf in the first it’s the most reasonable imo (altho I don’t support the entire “nerf celestial might stacking” trend of late). Would be pretty dumb to nerf the sigils and runes that EVERYONE uses simply because another class uses it and your’s does not and is pretty pathetic. Yet at the same time has everyone taken the time to learn how those builds work and when/how the best way to try and kill it is? My ele USED to be my main b4 switching to guard (medi) so even though people tell me D/D Eles counter me… I find that to be quite false in sPvP OR WvW. I can’t speak about Warrior or Engi seeing as how I’ve never taken the time to get to learn them. Perhaps I’ll find the time when they start face kitten me.

+1 from me!

Almost every prof has access to fire+blast comboes but non of them builds around these apart of the mentioned ele-engi-warri trio…

Reducing the might stack amount from blasting fire field would slow down the solo-fireblaster builds so giving more chance to the opponent to catch up. This won’t affect wvw zerg since if 12.5 (lol) blasts hit the field is already max. stack instead of 8.3.

About the Might duration: really because the Strength runes it wont do any good. The duration should be lowered on this runeset. Just a tiny bit but still…

Again: good “nerf” ideas and I’m absolutely happy to get these. It won’t really affect any builds outside of PvP. Some solo-roamers maybe but they have other options.

Might also want to do your blast finisher comparison by field. Fire fields are waayyy stronger than other blast finishers.

I disagree with this. Blasting fire fields currently has a significant effect, but its not overpowering. It also requires quite a few blasts before it become substantial, and having combos that are strong but not overpowering actual IMPROVES team-play and coordination.

I would say nerf the things that improve selfish capability rather than those that promote team play. If you just shave battle and doom, it will be enough. The “problem” specs (engie, ele, to a lesser degree warrior) all have 1 thing in common: they have very fast weapon-swaps, so are able to proc these sigils on-CD, so they use them MOST effectively. If you nerf these sigils, it doesn’t hurt other builds nearly as much and is a NET BUFF. Further, because other builds don’t use them to the max efficiency, there are usually a variety of other sigils that are just as effective. There is nothing as effective or reliable as battle/doom for celestial might-stacking classes.

Edit: to respond to drarnor, that is simply not true at all. Blasting water fields is probably the strongest. Light field blasts are very strong in groups (it makes aoes do almost more damage to the caster than the target). Ice fields are very strong because it is -10% damage and chill enemies (frost aura). Chaos armor is also very strong. People are just in a mindset that “mightstacking is too strong” b/c might stacking builds are doing very well in pvp. There are other builds that can perform the same role almost as well, but are just slightly worse atm. If you shave a few might stacks from these builds capability, they will eventually be levelled out and fall from favor over time (people are very slow to respond to power-level changes, and just keep chugging along even after nerfs/buffs rather than extensively testing).

No No No No NO.

Combos are an advanced technique, it should end up with powerful effects to encourage people to try to use it.

It’s not fire fields that are too strong, it’s more like everything other than fire and water are too weak. Buff the other fields, not nerf fire.

Xae Isareth.1364:

No No No No NO.

Combos are an advanced technique, it should end up with powerful effects to encourage people to try to use it.

It’s not fire fields that are too strong, it’s more like everything other than fire and water are too weak. Buff the other fields, not nerf fire.

I wouldn’t mind this at all. Better than nerfing and taking away kitten making the game even duller.

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

How would a 2 stacks might on blast affect your gameplay?

In dungeons: the boss would last 30 seconds more
In WvW: you need 5 more blast finishers to reach the max. stack
In open Pve: same as above
In solo wvw: a might-stacker build like ele or engi got slightly nerfed without affecting any other builds
In PvP the celestial bunker builds have less access to killing power… this is what we (they) want.

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

strength runes, not the same
phalanx strength, not the same
engis in the dungeon meta, not the same
cele gear/amulet, not the same

hmm what else has changed about might stacking builds since 2012 thats brought them into the spotlight… does more widespread game knowledge count? not really eh? ascended gear doesnt really count altho the ~5% damage buff is there…

I feel like the only one who’s pointing the blame at fury upkeep on ele builds not there might stacking, engineers do really well because they have huge sustained damage and it’s complemented with a good amount of blocks and dodges, eles on the other hand well let’s look at the benefits a higher crit chance bring 1. more dodges from crit hitting more often, more dodges means less potential incoming damage and more chances to use evasive arcana which makes up the fantastic heal in water attunement, 2. allows the ele to make best use of the high amount of might stacks and the crit damage that comes with celestial amulet, essentially take away the crit chance and the ele has to dedicate it’s role more appropriately rather then traiting completely defensively without a hit to damage output

insanemaniac.2456:

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

strength runes, not the same
phalanx strength, not the same
engis in the dungeon meta, not the same
cele gear/amulet, not the same

hmm what else has changed about might stacking builds since 2012 thats brought them into the spotlight… does more widespread game knowledge count? not really eh? ascended gear doesnt really count altho the ~5% damage buff is there…

Yeah actually before Strength Rune’s 45%+ to might, Might Stacking builds used to run 2Str/2Hoel/2/Fire and get +60% to might for might stacking builds.

Blasting might from fire fields didn’t grab huge power creep. The high might stacking options were not buffed in recent times, not even by strength runes, contrary to what some may think.

P.S., Cele Amulet has no interaction with might stacking.

In the past, particularly Engineer might stacking options were far superior. HgH builds and Enhanced Performance trait not competing with Incendiary Powder, both huge blows to the might stacking playstyle.

I think it is a terrible to suggest nerfing the amount of stacks per blast AND the duration. Perhaps one or the other, but not both at the same time.

There’s arguments on both sides. Personally I don’t think the problem is fire+blast combos, but the fact that 3 professions have amazing access to fire fields and blast finishers while other classes don’t at all. I know the idea was to keep each profession’s access to fields and finishers thematically appropriate to its fluff, but it ended up being an imbalance. Either reduce access to fire+blast combos for warriors, eles, and engis, or buff the other kinds of combos so they’re as meaningful as blasting fire and water fields.

I always wondered what would happen if you could blast other people’s fields, such that, if someone dropped a fire field, you could drop something first like a dark field, or blast an opponents fire field for your own might, or stealth.

You gotta admit, this would be pretty lolzy for advanced play, and make field tactics a thing. But there should be a bit more balancing for blasts, everyone should have a bit more access.

Chaith.8256:

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

And increasing the power of every field to match the obviously too strong fire fields contributes to power creep.

I’m not sure it’s only fire fields, as someone else pointed out, these professions also get the most out of swap sigils. I’m not sure what the best way to approach it is, but I’m sure that’s it’s a combination of these factors that leads to the might stacks on these classes.

Bhawb.7408:

Chaith.8256:

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

And increasing the power of every field to match the obviously too strong fire fields contributes to power creep.

Yeah, I dunno if you’re just using my post as reference, but I am not supporting that a bunch of other fields get buffed.

Chaith.8256:

insanemaniac.2456:

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

strength runes, not the same
phalanx strength, not the same
engis in the dungeon meta, not the same
cele gear/amulet, not the same

hmm what else has changed about might stacking builds since 2012 thats brought them into the spotlight… does more widespread game knowledge count? not really eh? ascended gear doesnt really count altho the ~5% damage buff is there…

Yeah actually before Strength Rune’s 45%+ to might, Might Stacking builds used to run 2Str/2Hoel/2/Fire and get +60% to might for might stacking builds.

+5% damage, +100 power for full a rune set in exchange for <-10% relative duration when you could already cap might

Blasting might from fire fields didn’t grab huge power creep. The high might stacking options were not buffed in recent times, not even by strength runes, contrary to what some may think.

P.S., Cele Amulet has no interaction with might stacking.

no, but hybrid builds that are getting complaints abuse the large stat pool of cele in combination with might stacking to outmuscle

In the past, particularly Engineer might stacking options were far superior. HgH builds and Enhanced Performance trait not competing with Incendiary Powder, both huge blows to the might stacking playstyle.

and the addition of a couple blast finishers and turret buffs made different might stacking possible

it just seems disingenuous to say fire fields havent changed so power creep doesnt exist.

Chaith.8256:

insanemaniac.2456:

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

strength runes, not the same
phalanx strength, not the same
engis in the dungeon meta, not the same
cele gear/amulet, not the same

hmm what else has changed about might stacking builds since 2012 thats brought them into the spotlight… does more widespread game knowledge count? not really eh? ascended gear doesnt really count altho the ~5% damage buff is there…

Yeah actually before Strength Rune’s 45%+ to might, Might Stacking builds used to run 2Str/2Hoel/2/Fire and get +60% to might for might stacking builds.

Blasting might from fire fields didn’t grab huge power creep. The high might stacking options were not buffed in recent times, not even by strength runes, contrary to what some may think.

P.S., Cele Amulet has no interaction with might stacking.

In the past, particularly Engineer might stacking options were far superior. HgH builds and Enhanced Performance trait not competing with Incendiary Powder, both huge blows to the might stacking playstyle.

Celestial interacts with might stacking because celestial has stats in both power and condition damage, which is enhanced by might. So take high duration + the buff Cele ammy received in the Ferocity update (yes, it lost some crit damage, but gained buffs in every other category) and you get the monster that is D/D Ele and Hybrid Rifle Engi (Cele War is good in 1v1 but doesn’t have nearly as much sustain as the other 2).

While what some of the things you said are true, it’s impossible to deny that these builds were not nearly as good as they were before these changes. They have both good damage and good sustain. Part of the problem seems to be that since direct power was nerfed so badly hybrid obviously became stronger. Off the top of my head the only builds that use pure power now (and are considered viable/see frequent use) are most Thief builds, Shatter Mes, PewPew Ranger, and Medi Guard. Considering that before that list was much longer it’s hard to argue that diversity has taken a plunge since now the meta is something you’re better off running than countering.

The Ferocity updates just screwed with everything really. Nerfed power, buffed Celestial, changed how sigils work, etc. The sigil changes are something we tend to forget to mention. It became possible to put both Battle/Energy, Doom/Battle, Fire/Air, and so on together. This made sigils WAY more important since before you would have maybe 1 of those runes on a weapon and something like Force/Accuracy which were much less powerful.

I like the idea of Runes/Sigils affecting you’re build, but now they’re almost as important as your traits which ‘m not OK with. They should have kept it so that you can’t double up on “on swap” or “on crit/hit” on the same weapon. It’s a combination of all these changes that have lead to the current mess we are facing.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Again, this only applies to fire fields.

If you nerf might stacking to say, 2 stacks instead of 3 and cut the duration by 33% from base, this would solve so many issues. (the numbers can be tweaked, really.) The damage from certain specs would be reduced to an appropriate level. We don’t need to nerf celestial, battle sigils, strength runes or classes.

Professions like engi, ele and war are the only ones who have decent access to fire fields+blasts. These are the problem classes. Correlation much? If might stacking via fire fields were nerfed, the problematic classes would be brought in line while not nerfing might for other classes.

Agree? Disagree? And why?

Let’s nerf a game mechanic instead of the classes that are “problematic”.
Let’s change the entire game – including PVE – for a minority that plays sPVP.

Makes perfect sense.

I think Boon-spam (and Condition-spam) in general should get a look.

What I’d do is:

• Significantly decrease the access to boons and conditions. What I mean is that if you specialize in supplying Fury, you can do that for say, 5s every 60s, only you can do it for your group. Might stacking to 25 would be completely unneeded, could cap it at 3.
• Significantly improve the power of all boons and conditions. Now that they’re really rare and really difficult to stack or acquire, each individual application needs to be very noticeable. There’s no more spam going on, you got time to react. In turn, not stopping when you get Torment? You go down. Not stopping to attack when you get Confusion? You go down. Someone with Fury? They crit 100% of the time, flat. Someone with Protection? Yeah good luck killing those. Etc.
• Seriously limit the access to condition and boon removal. Most importantly, remove any non-elite removal which is AE or make it self-only. Even then, self-only removal should either be highly specific (“This skill also clears Cripple and Immobilize”) or a specific utility which does nothing else. Only elite skills (and those again do nothing else) should provide something like the current Necromancer wells or Mesmer Null Field.

Note that I do not want condition specs to lose even an inkling of damage, quite the opposite (I consider conditions to be completely rubbish right now, outside of the weirdly player-constructed 1v1 scenarios – play a proper fight and your conditions drop off faster than you pushed the buttons on your keyboard).
However, I want 1 stack of bleeding for lots and lots of damage, with a high-CD and very specific counter to cleanse it (and then the attacker cannot reapply it quickly, OTOH if you can’t get it off it it’s going to hurt badly), instead of 25 stacks of bleeding spammed every 10s with tons of cleansing constantly clearing it off.

Carighan.6758:

I think Boon-spam (and Condition-spam) in general should get a look.

What I’d do is:

• Significantly decrease the access to boons and conditions. What I mean is that if you specialize in supplying Fury, you can do that for say, 5s every 60s, only you can do it for your group. Might stacking to 25 would be completely unneeded, could cap it at 3.
• Significantly improve the power of all boons and conditions. Now that they’re really rare and really difficult to stack or acquire, each individual application needs to be very noticeable. There’s no more spam going on, you got time to react. In turn, not stopping when you get Torment? You go down. Not stopping to attack when you get Confusion? You go down. Someone with Fury? They crit 100% of the time, flat. Someone with Protection? Yeah good luck killing those. Etc.
• Seriously limit the access to condition and boon removal. Most importantly, remove any non-elite removal which is AE or make it self-only. Even then, self-only removal should either be highly specific (“This skill also clears Cripple and Immobilize”) or a specific utility which does nothing else. Only elite skills (and those again do nothing else) should provide something like the current Necromancer wells or Mesmer Null Field.

Note that I do not want condition specs to lose even an inkling of damage, quite the opposite (I consider conditions to be completely rubbish right now, outside of the weirdly player-constructed 1v1 scenarios – play a proper fight and your conditions drop off faster than you pushed the buttons on your keyboard).
However, I want 1 stack of bleeding for lots and lots of damage, with a high-CD and very specific counter to cleanse it (and then the attacker cannot reapply it quickly, OTOH if you can’t get it off it it’s going to hurt badly), instead of 25 stacks of bleeding spammed every 10s with tons of cleansing constantly clearing it off.

The problem with that is that you make boons and conditions too binary. Either you do lots of damage or you don’t do any, it doesn’t allow for much room of gradation. Additionally will it make a condition user feel weak during fightq since he can’t use his primary stat for the entire fight (since a lot of his skills are on cooldown or don’t apply conditions).Also the reason we can run around with boon removal/condi removal without losing too much efficiency is because everyone has some condition application if only a little. I do aggree that the aoe condition removal needs a bit toned down though.

On topic now, I think that the big problem with blasting fire fields is the duration combined with the fact that boon removal is scarce and the fact that you actually needs to hit something to remove said boons. The duration is in fact so long that you can blast another fire field with the same skills before your might runs out,sometime even three times. So I suggest lowering the duration to 6~12 seconds.

Stop begging for more nerfs.

They couple their changes in WvW, PvP and PvE so this would absolutely murder PvE.

Please, have some consideration for people that enjoy other game modes than you before you suggest such things.

Purple Miku.7032:

Stop begging for more nerfs.

They couple their changes in WvW, PvP and PvE so this would absolutely murder PvE.

Please, have some consideration for people that enjoy other game modes than you before you suggest such things.

Plenty of pvp and PVE changes are seperate.

While nerfing Fire Field+ Blast might hurt PvE, it honestly wouldn’t be by much. It also might allow for some other specs to creep their way into dungeon metas because stacking 25 Might for the entire fight is currently so easy. Nerfing the field+blast Might stacks will make that more difficult, opening a door for other build possibilities.

WvW wouldn’t be touched at all if the duration is untouched, since so many blast finishers go off anyway.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

While nerfing Fire Field+ Blast might hurt PvE, it honestly wouldn’t be by much. It also might allow for some other specs to creep their way into dungeon metas because stacking 25 Might for the entire fight is currently so easy. Nerfing the field+blast Might stacks will make that more difficult, opening a door for other build possibilities.

WvW wouldn’t be touched at all if the duration is untouched, since so many blast finishers go off anyway.

Thank you, +1.

Also, this could be split for spvp and pve/wvw.

I doubt it’d do that in PvE. Rather, each individual stack of might is just as important, but now getting them is more tricky so you’d want to stack blast-finisher spam even harder.

Carighan.6758:

I doubt it’d do that in PvE. Rather, each individual stack of might is just as important, but now getting them is more tricky so you’d want to stack blast-finisher spam even harder.

Depends on the nerf. If, say, the duration went from 20 seconds to 10 seconds, you would have to re-stack mid-fight, which may or may not be practical (such as Subject Alpha).

Duration, stacks, or both are variables that could be reduced. If it were just stack quantity, then yes, you would blast even harder. If it were duration, you would have to restack partway through, likely before your blast cooldowns are done from your first round. As such, more sustained Might would become preferable, which can open up some new builds for viability.

It’s the battle sigil not the field blasts.

robertul.3679:

It’s the battle sigil not the field blasts.

Sorry, but pretty sure you’re wrong here. If it were the Sigils, then any profession would be might stacking like eles, warriors, and engineers because all professions can use them at the same efficiency (sigil cooldowns).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

robertul.3679:

It’s the battle sigil not the field blasts.

Sorry, but pretty sure you’re wrong here. If it were the Sigils, then any profession would be might stacking like eles, warriors, and engineers because all professions can use them at the same efficiency (sigil cooldowns).

Everyone only thinks it’s some clean cut answer of “this” specifically is making it OP. But Battle Sigils don’t allow for high might stacking, neither does one person blasting a field. Take an evasive arcana ele, they’ll set up the fire field, blast once in water, then dodge+earthquake to blast twice in earth. That’s 9 stacks of might, which is about equal to the average stack of might obtained via Sigils IIRC. So 9 might on a hefty cd or requiring constant swapping+boon duration is not alone very noticeable and no one complained about it. People are complaining that they stack so that you can reasonably obtain 18+ might stacks by devoting your cds, traits and weapon sigils to achieving higher might.

People need to stop complaining about blast finishers or battle sigils or whatever because when they’re alone, no one ever said anything and both provide almost the same amount of might when used at full efficiency. Someone put two and two together and realized that by using something that synergizes with their class they could make that aspect of the class stronger. The reason you don’t see everyone doing it however is because no other classes build around boons whereas Ele and engineer in particular are very boon-centric classes.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

While nerfing Fire Field+ Blast might hurt PvE, it honestly wouldn’t be by much. It also might allow for some other specs to creep their way into dungeon metas because stacking 25 Might for the entire fight is currently so easy. Nerfing the field+blast Might stacks will make that more difficult, opening a door for other build possibilities.

WvW wouldn’t be touched at all if the duration is untouched, since so many blast finishers go off anyway.

This!

If the fire-blast would give only 2 stacks of might instead of three this was cutting of the offensive abilities of the cele profs without affecting much anywhere else. Dungeon boss fights might last 30 sec longer. Nothing else is touched basically….

And do not tell me that any of the current power OR condi builds relies on fire field blasts for damage…. It’s an addition but not necessary…

Aggrostemma.1703:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

While nerfing Fire Field+ Blast might hurt PvE, it honestly wouldn’t be by much. It also might allow for some other specs to creep their way into dungeon metas because stacking 25 Might for the entire fight is currently so easy. Nerfing the field+blast Might stacks will make that more difficult, opening a door for other build possibilities.

WvW wouldn’t be touched at all if the duration is untouched, since so many blast finishers go off anyway.

This!

If the fire-blast would give only 2 stacks of might instead of three this was cutting of the offensive abilities of the cele profs without affecting much anywhere else. Dungeon boss fights might last 30 sec longer. Nothing else is touched basically….

And do not tell me that any of the current power OR condi builds relies on fire field blasts for damage…. It’s an addition but not necessary…

You’ll probably find it’ll hurt PvE a lot. Since PvE balance is pretty much a pure numbers game relating to how much DPS you pump out, it’s much more sensitive to coefficient changes. By gutting nerfing fire blasts, you’ll likely find a bunch of skills being relegated to uselessness because their sole purpose was to stack might.

I don’t see any other spec crawling up to meta status if you nerf might. Both ele and engis don’t exactly trait for might stacking, and the warrior PS build is already on the cliff of whether it’s actually useful or not given it’s only good in a restricted set of cases.

Necrotize.2974:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

robertul.3679:

It’s the battle sigil not the field blasts.

Sorry, but pretty sure you’re wrong here. If it were the Sigils, then any profession would be might stacking like eles, warriors, and engineers because all professions can use them at the same efficiency (sigil cooldowns).

Everyone only thinks it’s some clean cut answer of “this” specifically is making it OP. But Battle Sigils don’t allow for high might stacking, neither does one person blasting a field. Take an evasive arcana ele, they’ll set up the fire field, blast once in water, then dodge+earthquake to blast twice in earth. That’s 9 stacks of might, which is about equal to the average stack of might obtained via Sigils IIRC. So 9 might on a hefty cd or requiring constant swapping+boon duration is not alone very noticeable and no one complained about it. People are complaining that they stack so that you can reasonably obtain 18+ might stacks by devoting your cds, traits and weapon sigils to achieving higher might.

People need to stop complaining about blast finishers or battle sigils or whatever because when they’re alone, no one ever said anything and both provide almost the same amount of might when used at full efficiency. Someone put two and two together and realized that by using something that synergizes with their class they could make that aspect of the class stronger. The reason you don’t see everyone doing it however is because no other classes build around boons whereas Ele and engineer in particular are very boon-centric classes.

You’re only counting the ele’s weapon skills there. Most D/D ele builds run 4 blasts, frequently 5 including the three on weapons. That alone is 15 stacks of long duration Might to the Ele and any allies nearby. Factor in Fire Aura (Might when struck) and Strength Runes, you’re looking at 20 Might before even touching sigils.

Sigils aren’t the problem because everyone can use them at the same efficiency. The ICD prevents anyone from ever getting more than 3 stacks every 9 seconds. The Might stacking everyone complains about is much more than that.

As for “no other class builds around boons” Ever played a Guardian? They fart out boons like there’s no tomorrow.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Necrotize.2974:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

robertul.3679:

It’s the battle sigil not the field blasts.

Sorry, but pretty sure you’re wrong here. If it were the Sigils, then any profession would be might stacking like eles, warriors, and engineers because all professions can use them at the same efficiency (sigil cooldowns).

Everyone only thinks it’s some clean cut answer of “this” specifically is making it OP. But Battle Sigils don’t allow for high might stacking, neither does one person blasting a field. Take an evasive arcana ele, they’ll set up the fire field, blast once in water, then dodge+earthquake to blast twice in earth. That’s 9 stacks of might, which is about equal to the average stack of might obtained via Sigils IIRC. So 9 might on a hefty cd or requiring constant swapping+boon duration is not alone very noticeable and no one complained about it. People are complaining that they stack so that you can reasonably obtain 18+ might stacks by devoting your cds, traits and weapon sigils to achieving higher might.

People need to stop complaining about blast finishers or battle sigils or whatever because when they’re alone, no one ever said anything and both provide almost the same amount of might when used at full efficiency. Someone put two and two together and realized that by using something that synergizes with their class they could make that aspect of the class stronger. The reason you don’t see everyone doing it however is because no other classes build around boons whereas Ele and engineer in particular are very boon-centric classes.

You’re only counting the ele’s weapon skills there. Most D/D ele builds run 4 blasts, frequently 5 including the three on weapons. That alone is 15 stacks of long duration Might to the Ele and any allies nearby. Factor in Fire Aura (Might when struck) and Strength Runes, you’re looking at 20 Might before even touching sigils.

Sigils aren’t the problem because everyone can use them at the same efficiency. The ICD prevents anyone from ever getting more than 3 stacks every 9 seconds. The Might stacking everyone complains about is much more than that.

As for “no other class builds around boons” Ever played a Guardian? They fart out boons like there’s no tomorrow.

Engi and ele are the only two professions that really benefit from might stacking in PvE. They both have multiple fire fields with MANY blasts. PvE would not be hurt from this change. The boons from every class, including ele and engi, would be left untouched.

Last time I checked, Ele has about a total of 10 fire fields with a total of 15 or so blast finishers. Engi nearing the same, about a total of 3 fire fields with a total of ~10 blast finishers. Warrior has a lot of blast finishers too, but only 1 fire field. Then the rest of the professions have nearly no fire fields/blast finishers in the same build.

Remember, this is not a nerf to might itself. This is a nerf to fire fields. If ANYTHING, it would let other builds viability be brought up from not only engis and eles, but from every other class too. Then, because of fire fields, celestial engis and eles have come to be regarded as too strong. We all know celestial + might stacking is a superbly strong combination. This is one the ways to tone it down without destroying eles/engis/runes/sigils directly.

Xae:

Ok, different approach:

now you are able to stack 25 stacks of might. This means 875 power-condi damage. Equal to 1750 primary stat.

after the change you would have – let’S say – 17 stacks of might. This means 595 power-condi damage. Equal to 1190 primary stat.

That means 560 less power.

A full zerker build has around 2500 initial power. So you loose 15% dps. That is tough you might say…

But if you could reach 25 in the past you likely will do over twenty stacks after…

20 stacks give: 700 power.
25: 875

700+2500=3200
875+2500=3375

That’s 5% less damage.

So… as I said a 6 minutes fight would last 30 seconds longer…

P.S.: not counting the condition damages here… sure they help…. But in PvE dungeons
they are unimportant…

Aggrostemma.1703:

Xae:

Ok, different approach:

now you are able to stack 25 stacks of might. This means 875 power-condi damage. Equal to 1750 primary stat.

after the change you would have – let’S say – 17 stacks of might. This means 595 power-condi damage. Equal to 1190 primary stat.

That means 560 less power.

A full zerker build has around 2500 initial power. So you loose 15% dps. That is tough you might say…

But if you could reach 25 in the past you likely will do over twenty stacks after…

20 stacks give: 700 power.
25: 875

700+2500=3200
875+2500=3375

That’s 5% less damage.

So… as I said a 6 minutes fight would last 30 seconds longer…

P.S.: not counting the condition damages here… sure they help…. But in PvE dungeons
they are unimportant…

And it’s important to note that might in general is not being nerfed in the slightest, only the two professions with many fire fields/blasts. Guardians staff 4 is still giving the same exact duration and amount of might, FGJ from war will be the same, ETC.

The Game Slayer: exactly!

Just nerf the amount of might gained from fire fields… Problem solved…

This won’t affect sigils, runes, anything… Just the fire-field blasts….

Still not convinced a nerf is even necessary. Celestial specs dont really do threating damage to other balance type builds. I dont worry to much when I see celestial ele, engi, war coz there damage isn’t especially high. Most specs can simply take few hits and keep chugging along.

On the other hand if I see shatter mes, zerker ele s/x or staff, thief, necro, lb ranger, medi guard I get a bit nervous coz I know if I miss time a dodge or block I am gonna get dropped in 2secs. If someone gets downed I know I cant res them. Considering how much damage zerker specs are doing I think celestial with might stacking is fine.

Zerker’s tend to die stupidly fast in PvP/WvW. Some players and specs will work, but you can’t just slap on Zerker gear and win like you can in PvE. I fear Celestial might stacking much more because it has damage output only slightly lower, but is much more sustainable.

I have to scratch my head at some of the post here. For 2 years, fire fields + blast finishers were never complained about. Now, nothing has changes with this combo, yet this thread is claiming it is Op and needs to be changed? This is a ridiculous thought process.

Hmm, I wonder what possibly could have changed in the recent past, just before everyone decided this was OP? Hmm, I wonder if we could ever figure it out? Hmm, if only it would be possible to revert it or address that, instead of making ridiculous proposals to nerf something else entirely.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Zerker’s tend to die stupidly fast in PvP/WvW. Some players and specs will work, but you can’t just slap on Zerker gear and win like you can in PvE. I fear Celestial might stacking much more because it has damage output only slightly lower, but is much more sustainable.

Its a lot lower and takes time for its to get its might stacks up. The burst from a gs/staff mesmer is really high. Also it has access to stealth, ports, and invunls when I compare celest spec to something like mesmer thing seem very balanced.

“Last time I checked, Ele has about a total of 10 fire fields with a total of 15 or so blast finishers. Engi nearing the same, about a total of 3 fire fields with a total of ~10 blast finishers. Warrior has a lot of blast finishers too, but only 1 fire field. Then the rest of the professions have nearly no fire fields/blast finishers in the same build.”

Fields:
Ele has 6 on weapon skills(1 is underwater skill) with no more than 2 per weapon set.
Could add two more if you throw in Conjure Flame Axe(Don’t know why you would) and could add another 1 if you took the create Lava Font on downed trait(again, why would you).

Engi has 3 fire fields, but to gain access to all of them you’d need bomb kit, flame turret and flamethrower to be your utility skills. So you were right on that one, but using that build is hardly advisable.

Blast Finishers:
Ele has a grand total of 9 on weapon skills(1 being underwater) with no more than 3 per weapon set but all weapon sets have at least 1. Only exception is S/F which has 4 on the weapon set.
2 More for Arcane Brilliance and Arcane Wave
2 More if you’re last two utilities are both conjures.
1 More from evasive arcana
So that is potentially 8 in a single build if you spec 6 into arcana, use Arcane Brilliance, Arcane Wave, Lightning Hammer and Lava Axe coupled with S/F.

Engi is tricky.
They have only one on a weapon skills
1 from Throw Mine
1 from overcharging Thumper Turret
1 from Rocket Boots
1 from Flamethrower
1 from EG,
1 from thumper toolbelt
1 from bomb kit tool belt
1 from their downed skill.
Then, each turret can be detonated created a blast finisher, giving a total of 6, but obviously you can’t have 6 turrets.

So if my math is right, the max amount of blast finishers they can have is if all skills were turrets(including heal) with shield offhand and their downed skill. That would give them 8 blast finishers in a single build, but the only fire field would be from their toolbelt if one turret was flame turret. It would also require them to put all turrets on full cd to use all blast finishers.

So you’re numbers were pretty far off in some cases and the builds that would come close to them are certainly not practical at all.

I’m gonna split this into two posts just in case people don’t feel like sifting through all that advanced addition :P

~Ignore, felt like deleting that wall o’ text.

Beware, Huge wall of text. Don’t read if you don’t want to.

Fields

Ele
Has 6 on weapon skills(1 is underwater skill) with no more than 2 per weapon set.
Could add two more if you throw in Conjure Flame Axe(Don’t know why you would) and could add another 1 if you took the create Lava Font on downed trait(again, why would you).

Engi
Has 3 fire fields, but to gain access to all of them you’d need bomb kit, flame turret and flamethrower to be your utility skills. So you were right on that one, but using that build is hardly advisable.

Blast Finishers:
Ele
Has a grand total of 9 on weapon skills(1 being underwater) with no more than 3 per weapon set but all weapon sets have at least 1. Only exception is S/F which has 4 on the weapon set.
2 More for Arcane Brilliance and Arcane Wave
2 More if you’re last two utilities are both conjures.
1 More from evasive arcana
So that is potentially 8 in a single build if you spec 6 into arcana, use Arcane Brilliance, Arcane Wave, Lightning Hammer and Lava Axe coupled with S/F.

Engi is tricky.
They have only one on a weapon skills
1 from Throw Mine
1 from overcharging Thumper Turret
1 from Rocket Boots
1 from Flamethrower
1 from EG,
1 from thumper toolbelt
1 from bomb kit tool belt
1 from their downed skill.
Then, each turret can be detonated created a blast finisher, giving a total of 6, but obviously you can’t have 6 turrets.
So if my math is right, the max amount of blast finishers they can have is if all skills were turrets(including heal) with shield offhand and their downed skill. That would give them 8 blast finishers in a single build, but the only fire field would be from their toolbelt if one turret was flame turret. It would also require them to put all turrets on full cd to use all blast finishers.

This is still more blasts/fields than most classes, but that’s because they’re boon oriented classes. They have condi AND power weapon sets almost universally and therefore are more might oriented than anything since they deal condi and power consistently whereas other classes spec for power OR condi. For ele, Fire and Earth are split, condi and power pretty much across the board with air being the only pure power element. For engi, every kit except EG is split between power and condi.

For other classes, weapons are usually pretty defined in their purpose. For warrior, Hammer is obviously a power weapon. There are no damaging condition on any of its skills. For Mesmer, scepter is obviously a condition weapon with all of its skills inflicting conditions. Other examples of pure power weapons, mesmer sword, thief sword, warrior mace, etc. Pure condi has lots of examples too. There are some split weapons, but in general, they’re really good for one thing and pretty lackluster at the other(Thief D/D is a prime example of a weapon set that could be great at both if thief had higher access to might).

So if you wanted to nerf might access or power or duration or really anything to do with it, you’d have to consider that the classes that are using it to great effect have weapon skills and utilities that are reliant on both condition and power damage, so forcing them to spec into one is gonna result in half their skills being great with the other half being meh.

So how many of the top PvP players use fire field on the engineer? Got a link to one of these OP might stacking engineer builds?

They only thing they typically use is sigil+ runes. The reason they are so tough is they have great ranged damage, invulnerability to get out of bad spots, and lots and lots of CC and blocks. In my opinion, it seems that most of you do not even seem to actually know why you dies to certain professions.

Here is the play that actually is “meta”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IsX2frBkYfw

This is what engies are and have been doing for a while, how is might a problem with these builds??

coglin.1867:

So how many of the top PvP players use fire field on the engineer? Got a link to one of these OP might stacking engineer builds?

They only thing they typically use is sigil+ runes. The reason they are so tough is they have great ranged damage, invulnerability to get out of bad spots, and lots and lots of CC and blocks. In my opinion, it seems that most of you do not even seem to actually know why you dies to certain professions.

Here is the play that actually is “meta”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IsX2frBkYfw

This is what engies are and have been doing for a while, how is might a problem with these builds??

Really though. Better link every blast finisher in the game that Engineer has, and compare with other classes. D’oy.

This kind of might stacking builds usually have 3 main sources of might: Blast finishers over fire fields, sigil of battle and rune of strength (which doesn’t provide a lot of might by itself but increases the duration a lot, allowing a much better stacking).

One of these sources requires active usage of skills in the right sequence, which make the specs somewhat predictable and allows some kind of counterplay. Some of these specs can also bring more than a single combo field type to blast. It’s a powerful effect, but one that requires some decision making during the fight.
The other two are passives naturally working and proccing in background without any thoughtful player input.

If I had to nerf might stacking, runes and/or sigils would be my first target 100% sure. I don’t know, maybe there’s something broken in my head.