Guild Wars 2

Think about the countless times PvP players have seen their skills rendered useless for the PvE ones. It’s always worthwhile to look at the other side of the medal.

Sirendor.1394:

Think about the countless times PvP players have seen their skills rendered useless for the PvE ones. It’s always worthwhile to look at the other side of the medal.

You can’t count to 0?

darkace.8925:

I’m strictly a PvE player, and twice I’ve had skills rendered virtually useless by changes made for the sake of PvP. The first instance was Hunter’s Shot on Ranger, the second was Unsteady Ground on Elementalist.

With Hunter’s Shot, 10 stacks of Vulnerability was a great opener for some very nice burst against tough enemies. As a Ranger with a longbow, a pet, a Knock Back, and an aoe Cripple, Stealth essentially a wasted slot on my static skillbar. I understand why a PvP Ranger would want it, but for PvE it’s virtually useless.

With Unsteady Ground, Cripple (especially with +Condition Duration gear/food) was great against Veterans and Champions that took longer to kill. That’s been replaced with a wall that blocks targets. That wall is useless against trash mobs since they die so quickly, and it’s useless against Champions since they can simply walk right through it. I understand why a PvP Elementalist would want a wall blocking movement, but for PvE it’s virtually useless.

Remember, we can’t chance our weapon skills; we’re locked into whatever five skills you see fit to give us. This means that when you change a skill to make it useless for PvP, you might be doing so at the expense of those of us who don’t PvP. Short of giving us the flexibility to customize our weapon skills (something I’d very much be in favor of), you’ve got to strive to give us skill changes that will be useful in all areas of the game. As the two above examples illustrate, that’s not something I feel you’ve done well to this point.

Spvp and PvE are seperate game model’s and are balanced seperately as well..

If a change or nerf comes to your PvE its because it was meant for PvE and is supposed to affect it thus.

The pvp nerfs and buffs are also stated in the patch notes with a tag usually with pvp in parenthesis explaining that it is only for spvp.

Unfortunately Solori, we’ve seen changes caused by something in PvP hit us across the board, and we see at least 3 instances of it in each balance patch. Such as the damage nerf for pets and the endurance regen trait change, to name two. They were caused by things in PvP, but they hit us in PvE as well.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Unfortunately Solori, we’ve seen changes caused by something in PvP hit us across the board, and we see at least 3 instances of it in each balance patch. Such as the damage nerf for pets and the endurance regen trait change, to name two. They were caused by things in PvP, but they hit us in PvE as well.

As was the hilarious ‘Pet leash range “increased” to 2000’. Another sPvP issue we paid for in other game modes.

Solori.6025:

Spvp and PvE are seperate game model’s and are balanced seperately as well..

If a change or nerf comes to your PvE its because it was meant for PvE and is supposed to affect it thus.

The pvp nerfs and buffs are also stated in the patch notes with a tag usually with pvp in parenthesis explaining that it is only for spvp.

Uh, they just recently started to split some skills/traits in PVE and PVP. Not everything is split and yes, my Ranger has been at least three times I can think of (see above posts) because of PVP. It’s part of the reason I hate PVP QQ’ers. It’s part of the reason I refuse to PVP at all.

He is right, the arena.net idea so far seems to be balance the game mostly around spvp but do 70% of the new content in pve, which honestly to me is weird. It’s like Pve is the main thing but they also commit balance, which is a really important thing, to PvP. It doesn’t make a lot of sense, just commit to PVE arena net which is what works well and leave spvp as a sidekick.

The issue with that is that there are many people who really do enjoy PvP and GW2 came out as a Action/PvP game with the promise of #E-Sports.

On top of that, PvP does require more balance than PvE.

Why does PvE balance matter, if I may ask? A blind monkey could do PvE in GW2. People could probably run Arah naked. A level 1 could get gold from the highest level events. You can earn living story achievements by buying things off the TP and being a clicking enthusiast.

Yes, you may see lower numbers on some of your spells, but does it really impact you in any way at all?

Mash Hog.5672:

The issue with that is that there are many people who really do enjoy PvP and GW2 came out as a Action/PvP game with the promise of #E-Sports.

On top of that, PvP does require more balance than PvE.

Only problem is that sPvP counts for less than 10% of the playerbase of the game. More people play WvW than sPvP, and more people PvE than both.

EFWinters.5421:

Why does PvE balance matter, if I may ask?

Because dungeons, which are far more indicative of how things function in PvE, are set up in a way to where a single change across the board due to PvP can completely destroy a build or the usefulness of something in PvE. For example, the change to pet damage output made Rangers as a whole less useful in dungeons because our pets, which are at least 30% of our damage output, got nerfed, resulting in around a 5% drop in overall damage dealt by the class, when we’re already bottom of the barrel damage-wise in dungeons. It needs to be changed so sPvP changes AS A WHOLE are separated from the changes to PvE and WvW, so a change in that field won’t effect them, and vice versa.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Mash Hog.5672:

The issue with that is that there are many people who really do enjoy PvP and GW2 came out as a Action/PvP game with the promise of #E-Sports.

On top of that, PvP does require more balance than PvE.

Only problem is that sPvP counts for less than 10% of the playerbase of the game. More people play WvW than sPvP, and more people PvE than both.

And the reason for that is that the classes are unbalanced. If the classes were balanced and the games were less faceroll, there would be more people enjoying the PvP aspect of the game.

No, the reason is because people dont like it.
You know what saved pvp this las time, it wasn’t class balance or new modes, it was rewards. Meaning, dudes like you and me that care about spvp as a competition game are a very very small part of the playerbase and arena.net shouldn’t listen to us.

Mash Hog.5672:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Mash Hog.5672:

The issue with that is that there are many people who really do enjoy PvP and GW2 came out as a Action/PvP game with the promise of #E-Sports.

On top of that, PvP does require more balance than PvE.

Only problem is that sPvP counts for less than 10% of the playerbase of the game. More people play WvW than sPvP, and more people PvE than both.

And the reason for that is that the classes are unbalanced. If the classes were balanced and the games were less faceroll, there would be more people enjoying the PvP aspect of the game.

Yes, the one game mode of capture, which you also have in WvW, but on a grander scale…balance isn’t the reason why nobody does sPvP, it’s because there’s no overall change in how things run, it’s completely capture mode. Add in some different modes that are not capture, you’ll see people come to try them out. The main reason why I don’t sPvP isn’t because of balance…it’s because it gets boring quick when it’s only “capture nodes, keep them”. I play WvW for that.

EFWinters.5421:

Why does PvE balance matter, if I may ask? A blind monkey could do PvE in GW2. People could probably run Arah naked. A level 1 could get gold from the highest level events. You can earn living story achievements by buying things off the TP and being a clicking enthusiast.

Yes, you may see lower numbers on some of your spells, but does it really impact you in any way at all?

It matters because there are people who enjoy it. As long as there are people who enjoy it, the developers should be cognisant that the changes they make for PvP might negatively affect people who enjoy PvE. And, purposefully or not, you’re ignoring the fact that there has been difficult PvE content and that the developers can, at any time, add more difficult PvE content.

If classes were balanced throughout individual game modes instead of the one for all method that Anet has been pushing, this wouldn’t be an issue. The PvE and PvP in GW2 are practically separate games due to the vast disparity in meta play, so there’s no reason to try to encourage a single system when it clearly hasn’t bridged that gap together after a year and a half since the game’s release.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Mash Hog.5672:

The issue with that is that there are many people who really do enjoy PvP and GW2 came out as a Action/PvP game with the promise of #E-Sports.

On top of that, PvP does require more balance than PvE.

Only problem is that sPvP counts for less than 10% of the playerbase of the game. More people play WvW than sPvP, and more people PvE than both.

EFWinters.5421:

Why does PvE balance matter, if I may ask?

Because dungeons, which are far more indicative of how things function in PvE, are set up in a way to where a single change across the board due to PvP can completely destroy a build or the usefulness of something in PvE. For example, the change to pet damage output made Rangers as a whole less useful in dungeons because our pets, which are at least 30% of our damage output, got nerfed, resulting in around a 5% drop in overall damage dealt by the class, when we’re already bottom of the barrel damage-wise in dungeons. It needs to be changed so sPvP changes AS A WHOLE are separated from the changes to PvE and WvW, so a change in that field won’t effect them, and vice versa.

how about ignoring the buffs that come out of pvp? like more dmg on longbow? just an example.. so less qq please or at least the full truth

For me, it makes sense to balance around sPvP because honestly, PVE is easy and no changes to any traits, etc… will change that.

hooma.9642:

how about ignoring the buffs that come out of pvp? like more dmg on longbow? just an example.. so less qq please or at least the full truth

Ranger longbow is incredibly situational in dungeons, and any single ranger in a group that takes that trait over spotter is handicapping the whole party’s potential damage.

Obtena.7952:

For me, it makes sense to balance around sPvP because honestly, PVE is easy and no changes to any traits, etc… will change that.

This.

No matter what, PvE will always be min/maxed and certain classes or builds just won’t be as good in certain situations. The content is largely static and the AI is still pretty stupid. PvE and WvW also have more balancing variables with food and weapon buffs and vertical gear scaling (rare vs. exotic vs. ascended).

And hey, PvPers also don’t like it when skills are changed, but they’re more accepting that it’s usually for the greater good.

Until PvE mobs can’t be pushed into a wall and are smart enough to move out of the Fiery Greatsword #4 attack, it’s not even worth trying to balance around PvE.

A lot of the changes are fine in PvE, the idea of having slightly weaker skills in PvE for the sake of sPvP balance is more worthwhile since balance between classes is much more essential…

A vast majority of champs and mobs can be soloed with glassy builds and even easier on tanky Or hybrid builds even if a bit longer fighting time. I don’t want to be an elitist jerk saying “PvE is to easy cry more” but the game is solo friendly even for those super casual people who have never played MMOs and click skills while not using the mouse to turn. So really, players from most perspectives shouldn’t have to much of a problem with changes.

Balance team should focus on PvP and let PvE be and only look into skill splitting something if it is truly, truly useless. The examples given were very minor and still had their uses in combat. (My fav is unsteady ground at a choke and letting it rain)

And IMO the changes made for balance should have been in within the first few months. If you get spoiled by skills being stronger, or working in a significantly more universal way as opposed to situational utility. I can get how it may suck a bit, but in the long run it’s better for a healthier game. Then perhaps one day we can get a proper competitive scene.

In the future they said they want to add changeable skills. Changes now may mean better options later. So fingers crossed for your old combos being available again.

PvP is a very active part of this game as seen in my screenie.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

PvP is a very active part of this game as seen in my screenie.

I love how you’ve cut out the time on the minimap. If you’re posting from Europe (+0 GMT in the UK for me) this post was at 2AM. Nobody generally PvP’s after Midnight in Europe (from my experience). Try and argue your point with some validity next time

Butterfly.1965:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

PvP is a very active part of this game as seen in my screenie.

I love how you’ve cut out the time on the minimap. If you’re posting from Europe (+0 GMT in the UK for me) this post was at 2AM. Nobody generally PvP’s after Midnight in Europe (from my experience). Try and argue your point with some validity next time

Erm…my signature says blackgate ;O. I cut it out for my build and rank, I wasn’t trying to hide anything. THERE YA GO LUV

Lunar Sunset.8742:

PvP is a very active part of this game as seen in my screenie.

I remember when my game looked like that.

I’m sure glad those days are over.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Butterfly.1965:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

PvP is a very active part of this game as seen in my screenie.

I love how you’ve cut out the time on the minimap. If you’re posting from Europe (+0 GMT in the UK for me) this post was at 2AM. Nobody generally PvP’s after Midnight in Europe (from my experience). Try and argue your point with some validity next time

Erm…my signature says blackgate ;O. I cut it out for my build and rank, I wasn’t trying to hide anything.

I paid too much attention to the screenshot to notice the sig. My apologies ^^

Black Box.9312:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

PvP is a very active part of this game as seen in my screenie.

I remember when my game looked like that.

I’m sure glad those days are over.

I don’t always play on lowest settings but when I do… I get 15FPS.

Think about all the times when Anet has given PvE-centric skills and traits massive buffs.

Elementalist: Persisting Flames gives +2 ticks on Lava Font, up from +1
Guardian: Writ of Persistence gives +2 ticks on Symbol of Protection, up from +1
Engineer: Modified Ammunition works with grenades, effectively a +10% DPS boost
Mesmer: Illusionist’s Celerity moved to Master tier

Those are MASSIVE buffs that are just off the top of my head. I’m sure there’s plenty more.

Levetty.1279:

Sirendor.1394:

Think about the countless times PvP players have seen their skills rendered useless for the PvE ones. It’s always worthwhile to look at the other side of the medal.

You can’t count to 0?

You obviously didn’t see the new healing skills?

Solori.6025:

darkace.8925:

I’m strictly a PvE player, and twice I’ve had skills rendered virtually useless by changes made for the sake of PvP. The first instance was Hunter’s Shot on Ranger, the second was Unsteady Ground on Elementalist.

With Hunter’s Shot, 10 stacks of Vulnerability was a great opener for some very nice burst against tough enemies. As a Ranger with a longbow, a pet, a Knock Back, and an aoe Cripple, Stealth essentially a wasted slot on my static skillbar. I understand why a PvP Ranger would want it, but for PvE it’s virtually useless.

With Unsteady Ground, Cripple (especially with +Condition Duration gear/food) was great against Veterans and Champions that took longer to kill. That’s been replaced with a wall that blocks targets. That wall is useless against trash mobs since they die so quickly, and it’s useless against Champions since they can simply walk right through it. I understand why a PvP Elementalist would want a wall blocking movement, but for PvE it’s virtually useless.

Remember, we can’t chance our weapon skills; we’re locked into whatever five skills you see fit to give us. This means that when you change a skill to make it useless for PvP, you might be doing so at the expense of those of us who don’t PvP. Short of giving us the flexibility to customize our weapon skills (something I’d very much be in favor of), you’ve got to strive to give us skill changes that will be useful in all areas of the game. As the two above examples illustrate, that’s not something I feel you’ve done well to this point.

Spvp and PvE are seperate game model’s and are balanced seperately as well..

If a change or nerf comes to your PvE its because it was meant for PvE and is supposed to affect it thus.

The pvp nerfs and buffs are also stated in the patch notes with a tag usually with pvp in parenthesis explaining that it is only for spvp.

In an ideal world yes, but unfortunately its best design to try to keep skills universal other wise they end up having to balance twice the amount of skills which they don’t have resources for currently.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Butterfly.1965:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

PvP is a very active part of this game as seen in my screenie.

I love how you’ve cut out the time on the minimap. If you’re posting from Europe (+0 GMT in the UK for me) this post was at 2AM. Nobody generally PvP’s after Midnight in Europe (from my experience). Try and argue your point with some validity next time

Erm…my signature says blackgate ;O. I cut it out for my build and rank, I wasn’t trying to hide anything. THERE YA GO LUV

You no longer need to be in the mists to join pvp games so the hotm is useless unless your changing your build therefore hotm population is in inaccurate representation of the pvp population.

Obtena.7952:

For me, it makes sense to balance around sPvP because honestly, PVE is easy and no changes to any traits, etc… will change that.

Remember though, PvE players are the ones paying to keep the game online. It’s a simple truth. More than 90% of the gaming population will NEVER set foot into a PvP venue.

Perhaps not regularly kittening off the masses that pay their salaries is something they should consider.

I totally agree.
Because of PVP-balancing the PVE balance looks like crap atm.

stale.9785:

Obtena.7952:

For me, it makes sense to balance around sPvP because honestly, PVE is easy and no changes to any traits, etc… will change that.

Remember though, PvE players are the ones paying to keep the game online. It’s a simple truth. More than 90% of the gaming population will NEVER set foot into a PvP venue.

Perhaps not regularly kittening off the masses that pay their salaries is something they should consider.

I’m aware of this but it doesn’t really matter because anything we get for PVE will work since it’s so simple. Regardless, the thread itself is a half truth … PVE is not constantly nerfed for the sake of PVP.

Levetty.1279:

Sirendor.1394:

Think about the countless times PvP players have seen their skills rendered useless for the PvE ones. It’s always worthwhile to look at the other side of the medal.

You can’t count to 0?

Obviously you can’t. I have seen plenty of threads about classes being buffed in PvE, making PvP unbalanced.

I’m not saying PvE is balanced. What should have been done is separate PvE and PvP for balancing. DONE

EFWinters.5421:

Why does PvE balance matter, if I may ask? A blind monkey could do PvE in GW2. People could probably run Arah naked. A level 1 could get gold from the highest level events. You can earn living story achievements by buying things off the TP and being a clicking enthusiast.

Yes, you may see lower numbers on some of your spells, but does it really impact you in any way at all?

Some people do run Arah naked. And it’s just as easy.

The funny thing is they splitted skills for PvE and PvP in GW1 and there were a LOT more skills in GW1. In GW2 you have less skills and apparently they got lazy and don’t want to split anymore.

Keep trying to balance 2-3 completely different gametypes at the same time, it’ll work out Anet

darkace.8925:

giving us the flexibility to customize our weapon skills.

Please

Bear in mind, this thread isn’t just about balancing numbers. It includes fundamental changes to the way skills function for the sake of one area of the game over any other; I wouldn’t want PvP players to get hosed because of PvE anymore than I like getting hosed because of PvP.

Sirendor.1394:

Levetty.1279:

Sirendor.1394:

Think about the countless times PvP players have seen their skills rendered useless for the PvE ones. It’s always worthwhile to look at the other side of the medal.

You can’t count to 0?

Obviously you can’t. I have seen plenty of threads about classes being buffed in PvE, making PvP unbalanced.

I’m not saying PvE is balanced. What should have been done is separate PvE and PvP for balancing. DONE

And yet you are still not giving examples.

Baldric.6781:

No, the reason is because people dont like it.
You know what saved pvp this las time, it wasn’t class balance or new modes, it was rewards. Meaning, dudes like you and me that care about spvp as a competition game are a very very small part of the playerbase and arena.net shouldn’t listen to us.

The real reason is : 95% of the arena.net work are for pve (i don’t count balance because it touch both pvp and pve), a question : if the same amount of ressources will be spend in Pvp do you think people still play a lot to pve ? i don’t think so. What “save” pve is the living story, wich become boring as hell.

The sooner we have selectable weapon skills the better. Then you might see some level of PVE balance.

PvE actually is pretty balanced, it’s just stale. Zerker gear and certain playstyles are dominant but there’s not actually anything keeping anyone from joining in on the current meta UNLESS they rolled the wrong class, and currently the only “wrong” class is the necromancer. It’s also true that mesmers and engineers are a bit too strong right now but the other classes, even the necro, hold their own just fine. For example, warriors are still wanted because banners are always a good buff, and elementalists currently also do very well due to their raw DPS output.

Any apparent imbalance is primarily due to bad players not knowing how to play their class properly and not so much due to any inherent class defects.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Any apparent imbalance is primarily due to bad players not knowing how to play their class properly and not so much due to any inherent class defects.

I don’t agree with much you say but I mostly agree with this.

Black Box.9312:

hooma.9642:

how about ignoring the buffs that come out of pvp? like more dmg on longbow? just an example.. so less qq please or at least the full truth

Ranger longbow is incredibly situational in dungeons, and any single ranger in a group that takes that trait over spotter is handicapping the whole party’s potential damage.

what trait? they increased the normal dmg. so because spvp pve got more dmg. example to prove against that op post.

just kill the critical damage on gear and people will stop running pure crit damage build and start considering everything else

hooma.9642:

Black Box.9312:

hooma.9642:

how about ignoring the buffs that come out of pvp? like more dmg on longbow? just an example.. so less qq please or at least the full truth

Ranger longbow is incredibly situational in dungeons, and any single ranger in a group that takes that trait over spotter is handicapping the whole party’s potential damage.

what trait? they increased the normal dmg. so because spvp pve got more dmg. example to prove against that op post.

It hardly served any purpose at all, because the awful distance-based damage mechanic is still there, which makes longbow remain incredibly situational in dungeons.