Guild Wars 2

Here is a list I’ve compiled of traits for all professions that literally play the game for you, remove some need for play/counterplay tactics, and ultimately should be removed from the game to separate the skilled from the…not-so-skilled.

No doubt I’ve missed some or added some that you might not agree with but that’s what I’m here to discuss. Additionally, if these traits were removed, do you think it would be easier to tell if a player is “good” at the game, because the class would no longer be playing itself?

(the names of some of the Engineer traits are rather amusing, it’s almost as if ArenaNet intended it to play itself)

Elementalist

- Burning Fire
- Tempest Defense
- Diamond Skin
- Earth’s Embrace
- Soothing Wave
- Final Shielding
- Arcane Retribution

Warrior

- Defy Pain
- Last Stand
- Shrug It Off

Ranger

- Primal Reflexes
- Bark Skin
- Empathic Bond
- Hide In Plain Sight
- Oakheart Salve
- Enlargement
- Nature’s Protection
- Rejevenation

Necromancer

- Siphoned Power
- Full of Life
- Last Gasp
- Reaper’s Protection
- Fetid Consumption

Guardian

- Zealot’s Speed
- Valorous Defense
- Shattered Aegis
- Inner Fire
- Shimmering Defense
- Purity
- Retaliatory Subconscious

Thief

- Last Refuge
- Slowed Pulse
- Hard to Catch
- Pain Response
- Instinctual Response

Engineer

- Reserve Mines
- Low Health Response System
- Automated Medical Response
- Inertial Converter
- Transmute
- Hidden Flask
- Autodefense Bomb Dispenser
- Cloaking Device
- Stabilized Armour
- Automated Response
- Protection Injection
- Self-Regulating Defenses
- Armour Mods

Mesmer

- Metaphysical Rejuvenation
- Desperate Decoy
- Mirror of Anguish
- Illusionary Invigoration

Of all the things listed here, I’m extremely surprised that Prismatic Understanding for Mesmers isn’t in this list… Seriously, it’s hella hard to DPS a tanky condi Mesmer with that trait with their passive playstyle of sitting back behind numerous aegis blocks and high regen/protection up times.

Agree with above poster. PU should be the first thing on your list.

Come to think of it, you would have to delete mesmers from the game.

Colt.9051:

Of all the things listed here, I’m extremely surprised that Prismatic Understanding for Mesmers isn’t in this list… Seriously, it’s hella hard to DPS a tanky condi Mesmer with that trait with their passive playstyle of sitting back behind numerous aegis blocks and high regen/protection up times.

I agree that PU is really lamesauce and in a way it does play the game for the player. The traits I’ve listed are ones that do certain actions for the player in response to something an enemy has done to them.

The best example from the list I can give to help explain would be Warrior’s “Last Stand.” When they are CC’d they get instastability instead of stun breaking it for themselves. Does that make more sense? I mustn’t have been clear. Sorry!

It was clear. You also said these needed to be removed from the game in order to seperate skilled from not so skilled. PU, especially in it’s current form, applies in this aspect.

A lot of mesmer skills and traits do. But this is such an integral part of the game. Every class has it’s share.

Of all the Thief traits you listed, the only ones they’d miss would be Pain Response and Slowed Pulse. And those would only be missed by non-stealth Thieves due to thier limited cleansing options. What would you propose for them? (And the other three are viewed as more handicap then helpful)

Well, I can say you could remove all the guardian traits on the list and most of us wouldn’t feel a thing. Zealots speed is a decent little damage boost at times but it is not very predictable. I have used inner fire and purity but, there are better traits out there.

I would argue that shattered aegis should not be on the list because you have to activate an aegis before an attack hits you, and this just adds some retaliatory damage to the attacker. Terrible trait, especially after the last ‘buff’ but all the same…

Could you make a complete list?

As I play ranger and warrior, I looked at these two classes. And there are some lacks in your list. Because for example :
- there’s Ranger’s “Nature’s Protection” but there’s not Warrior’s “Furious Reaction” .
- there’s Ranger’s “Oakheart Salve” but there’s not Warrior’s “Dogged March”
- there’s Ranger’s “Primal Reflexes” but there’s not Warrior’s “Spiked Armor”

And I’ll add Warrior’s “Desperate Power” (Opposite of Ranger’s “Bark Skin”) and Warrior’s “Adrenal Health”

Everything in the game can’t be a castable ability. I don’t have an issue with half of these things.

What you need to do is ask yourself if these abilities detract from the gaming experience of the player actually playing the class. As long as the class remains fun and engaging I don’t have an issue with these abilities.

To inject ‘counter play’ into these scenarios, the procs on things like Defy Pain should be far more obvious. Larger debuff panel, colored circles around their feet to indicate stability, immunity, etc. Things of this nature.

The goal should be to make things easier for you to counter play as the opponent. Not to make the game more tedius for the player.

Now if there are actual glaring balance issues, that’s an entirely other suggestion. Or complaining about conditions as a whole being too passive. Or screen clutter. etc etc..

Sometimes I get bored of watching my engi play so I actually touch a button or two. Usually ends up with me dead.

The toughness stat is essentially the same thing as moderate passive protection uptime.

You could argue that GW2 should not be an MMORPG, and should instead be a fighting game without stats or passive traits. But that type of decision usually happens in the first month of development, not 1.5 years after release.

That said, it is frustrating when passive things get too strong. There’s a difference between fun buildcrafting/choosing stats, and frustrating passive abilities that make it feel like you’re fighting a trait instead of a person. However, there are only a few really problematic passive abilities/traits.

Only 3 for Warrior? That’s interesting.

Also, if we’re going to talk about builds that play themselves, we might want to discuss the prevalence of AI-based builds, since I find those much more aggravating than passive traits.

also agree , but you missed PU of mesmers and also
Furious Reactions, Dogged March, Spiked Armor of warriors

To be honest I dont have a problem with really any of these. Too much passive play is of course bad, but choosing some passive traits is not inherenty a bad thing in my opinion. Even some passive effects can lead to active play.. any example being I almost always begin fights with a stun/daze as soon as I can, especially on warriors. Why? Because most people (and prettly much all warriors) run their equivalent of the trait which blocks the first CC they take. Simply knowing people will be running it causes me to play more actively in proc’ing it quickly, so that it wont be proc’ed when I really do need to stun them later.

Thats just a small example.. but really, I dont see a big issue with passive traits as long as they dont go to extremes, which I dont think too many do.

are we talking about traits’ effectiveness or just simply passive traits?

Because i can tell you right of the bat yuo can scratch every single ting of of the ele section if we are talking about effectiveness:

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Elementalist

1- Burning Fire
2- Tempest Defense
3- Diamond Skin
4- Earth’s Embrace
5- Soothing Wave
6- Final Shielding
7- Arcane Retribution

1; Cannot control it, has long CD, too long CD, burn is around melee range. Veredict: 2/10

2; Definitely not a grandmaster trait. In case you didnt know, this isnt like that mesmer skill which copies the CC onto the enemy. Only effective agaisnt maybe thieves with basilisk. We dont have many (almost any) CC from which benefice from with the 20% damage. Has it uses, but very niche, very very niche. 4/10

3; Terrible, terrible, terrible skill. 10% hp from a class that has the lowest hp and armor rating in the game, a class known for being the squishiest of squishiest classes. Only effective agaisnt a rabid necro in a 1v1. If you cant do 1.1k damage to an ele with 2 autoattacks or 1 skill, then sir, l2p. Overall, terrible grandmaster skill, needs to be removed, agreed. 2/10

4; Probably the only one who is truly effective and amazing. Threshold is good enough so that when it activates isnt too late, the effects, although too short lived (6 seconds protection and stability in a 90 seconds) is too little considering it has the same CD of the cantrip. Basically, this isnt any more powerful than a guardian shout that gives the same effect party wide on 26 secs CD. only 10 points needed for it so; 8/10

5- 3 seconds of regen when critically hit, internal cd of 3 secs? Great on bunkers, absolutely useless on anything else really. If you cant outdamage 3 ticks of regen pver 3 seconds, that is 390 healing over 3 seconds, with 1 crit…. or do more than 390 damage over 3 seconds…… l2p issue. 4/10

6- Great trait, I will give you that much. Saved my butt vs thieves a bunch of times. Necessary until they fix ele’s survavility issues. 8/10

7- I wont even dignify that withan answer…

Anyways, there are worse traits than those, and as noted before PU is missing there. I find your list a little bit skewed, in fact, very skewed.

Also clarify, is this about effectiveness or about theory crafting?

I support the notion of reducing passive play.

But I don’t think it’s fair to criticize all of the aforementioned traits. For example, gaining a boon (like Regeneration or Vigor) when certain conditional are met (like low health or certain conditions) is ok in my opinion.

However automatically using certain skills at certain moments is not (like Defy Pain).

It’s ok for them to reset the cooldown, but not automatically use skills.

Dual.8953:

Of all the Thief traits you listed, the only ones they’d miss would be Pain Response and Slowed Pulse. And those would only be missed by non-stealth Thieves due to thier limited cleansing options. What would you propose for them? (And the other three are viewed as more handicap then helpful)

I always thought a fun trait would be a mild Arcane Thievery on steal (i.e. you send a condi to a target and gain a boon, maybe depending on the condi itself).

shimmerless.4560:

Dual.8953:

Of all the Thief traits you listed, the only ones they’d miss would be Pain Response and Slowed Pulse. And those would only be missed by non-stealth Thieves due to thier limited cleansing options. What would you propose for them? (And the other three are viewed as more handicap then helpful)

I always thought a fun trait would be a mild Arcane Thievery on steal (i.e. you send a condi to a target and gain a boon, maybe depending on the condi itself).

I would like to see this functionality added to Mug (or replacing the heal) instead of a health trigger. Could rename Mug to “Reverse Pickpocket” or something

You can remove thief ones all you want, barely anyone uses them anyway or sees them as handicap if anything heh.