Guild Wars 2

Hey guys!

Cloak and Dagger
Remember when Cloak and Dagger got nerfed in PvP so that it did less damage? It currently uses a coefficient of 1.0 while in PvE/WvW it is 1.5. I remember that one of the arguments used when this nerf was made was that it was because the combined damage of CnD, Mug and Backstab was just too much – later Anet decided to nerf Mug so that it couldn’t critically hit any more while still leaving CnD in its inferior state.

Can you remember the last time you saw a D/D thief in PvP? No? Me neither. D/P are the current king because of its utilities (blind, teleports, stealth on-demand). Bringing CnD back to where it was would make D/D the king of burst again and it would possibly make it viable in competitive play again.

I for one would love to see this change.

Revealed
Revealed in PvE/WvW; 3 seconds, in PvP; 4 seconds.

Many of you may think that this isn’t a big thing, but just go and try it out, you’ll notice it. The dagger auto attack chain is exactly 3 seconds long, which makes it feel natural to hit CnD right after the last attack of the chain, but this is not possible in PvP.

Anet said that they want the transition from PvE to PvP to feel seamless – this isn’t seamless. If you actively play all game modes then this is a real pain! It just feels clunky and unnatural in its current state, while 3 seconds feel just perfect.

I believe that this is also one of the main reasons Dagger off-hand isn’t viable in PvP. Reverting this change would be huge for the thief! Remember; we can’t contest points while in stealth, which was one of the reasons they did this change (we could contest points before). Now that contesting was fixed I think it should be natural to revert the change and open up new build options for PvP.

TL:DR
Revert the Revealed and Cloak and Dagger nerf.

What do you guys think about this?

i think, revealed time: 5 seconds
Trait to grant 2 seconds protection when getting revealed.
CnD damage coeff: 1.75

Wiki says the dagger auto chain is actually 2 seconds. Are you certain it’s 3? Because at 2, you kind of blew up your whole argument :/

Prysin: giving us access to protection would kitten people off. We don’t need it in top of our shadowsteps, evades and blinds. 5 seconds, why?

Why would you want CnD to be stronger in PvP than in WvW? I feel it does enough damage in wvw as it is now, so why increase that damage in PvP? Why could revert their nerf and see if it is enough though.

At heraldic: yeah, forgot to add that it was including the cast time of CnD (shame on me for forgetting to add that). It is 2.5 seconds actually, but it feels more “right”.

Anyways, I really can not find any reason for it to be 4 seconds. Stealth still can’t contest, so the stealth uptime is usually minimal. I use it to reposition in teamfights, land a quick stab or gtfo. Reverting this would really help in making D/D more viable.

i want revealed to be extended, not just because i play a not-so-stealth heavy thief build, but because it would probably silence a lot of the BS surrounding stealth.

So to counter this increased revealed time (aka burst downtime) you need more damage on the opener, and defense once revealed.

2 seconds of protection would probably help mitigate SOME of the damage you’d take during revealed period. Thus those 5 seconds (or 6 if engi/ranger uses their revealed skills) would not be AS devastating as they could be. Ofcourse, the protection trait would need to be balanced.
Preferably, either in acrobatics or trickery as a master/master minor. Those two traitlines have traits that would be competitive, but not so many competitive traits that it would be a problem.

-BP becomes dark field,increases in damage,lesser initiative cost
-Unload become off-hand pistol #4
-Unload is replace by a pistol version of Flanking Strike
-Shadow Shot increase in damage,lesser initiative cost,dagger hit dazes for 1/2 sec
-Last refuge is replaced by 1-sec revealed APPLIED TO YOU trait.

That should end whining from both sides and rumors about stealth being broken or not competitive. Choosing what trait line should be the best is a selfish and unhealthy mindset because no trait line should be a to go to I’m talking about PU and SA if you don’t like them doesn’t mean you have to flame and hate people using them it’s a waste of time it inspires them to use it more duh.

Atherakhia.4086:

Wiki says the dagger auto chain is actually 2 seconds. Are you certain it’s 3? Because at 2, you kind of blew up your whole argument :/

The wiki does not include the aftercast from gaining Revealed from a Stealth attack ie. Backstab, which is already a good 0.375-0.5s before actually initialising the attack chain. Then, Lotus Strike has a short aftercast before Cloak and Dagger can initialise. Then, the wind-up for Cloak and Dagger to hit, which is also 0.5s. Go and try it for yourself. If you Backstab a foe, allow the chain to finish and then hit Cloak and Dagger, it will connect just as Revealed is finishing (if it is 3 seconds).

Sagat.3285:

-BP becomes dark field,increases in damage,lesser initiative cost
-Unload become off-hand pistol #4
-Unload is replace by a pistol version of Flanking Strike
-Shadow Shot increase in damage,lesser initiative cost,dagger hit dazes for 1/2 sec
-Last refuge is replaced by 1-sec revealed APPLIED TO YOU trait.

That should end whining from both sides and rumors about stealth being broken or not competitive. Choosing what trait line should be the best is a selfish and unhealthy mindset because no trait line should be a to go to I’m talking about PU and SA if you don’t like them doesn’t mean you have to flame and hate people using them it’s a waste of time it inspires them to use it more duh.

Black Powder becomes smoke field? If so, then it should be a ranged stealth, working like Cloak and Dagger – if it is blocked or evaded then the thief won’t get stealth, much like the Rangers Longbow #3. Just think about it. No longer stealth on demand and it adds some counter play to the D/P stealth. It would also help P/P a lot.

Unload replacing Head Shot? No thanks. The instant interrupt (which has a decent initiative cost) is far more valuable. Abilities are fine as they are on the D/P set. Pistols dual skill need a rework though…

Geiir.7603:

Hey guys!

Cloak and Dagger
Remember when Cloak and Dagger got nerfed in PvP so that it did less damage? It currently uses a coefficient of 1.0 while in PvE/WvW it is 1.5. I remember that one of the arguments used when this nerf was made was that it was because the combined damage of CnD, Mug and Backstab was just too much – later Anet decided to nerf Mug so that it couldn’t critically hit any more while still leaving CnD in its inferior state.

Can you remember the last time you saw a D/D thief in PvP? No? Me neither. D/P are the current king because of its utilities (blind, teleports, stealth on-demand). Bringing CnD back to where it was would make D/D the king of burst again and it would possibly make it viable in competitive play again.

I for one would love to see this change.

Revealed
Revealed in PvE/WvW; 3 seconds, in PvP; 4 seconds.

Many of you may think that this isn’t a big thing, but just go and try it out, you’ll notice it. The dagger auto attack chain is exactly 3 seconds long, which makes it feel natural to hit CnD right after the last attack of the chain, but this is not possible in PvP.

Anet said that they want the transition from PvE to PvP to feel seamless – this isn’t seamless. If you actively play all game modes then this is a real pain! It just feels clunky and unnatural in its current state, while 3 seconds feel just perfect.

I believe that this is also one of the main reasons Dagger off-hand isn’t viable in PvP. Reverting this change would be huge for the thief! Remember; we can’t contest points while in stealth, which was one of the reasons they did this change (we could contest points before). Now that contesting was fixed I think it should be natural to revert the change and open up new build options for PvP.

TL:DR
Revert the Revealed and Cloak and Dagger nerf.

What do you guys think about this?

yes please T^T

Geiir.7603:

Hey guys!

Cloak and Dagger
Remember when Cloak and Dagger got nerfed in PvP so that it did less damage? It currently uses a coefficient of 1.0 while in PvE/WvW it is 1.5. I remember that one of the arguments used when this nerf was made was that it was because the combined damage of CnD, Mug and Backstab was just too much – later Anet decided to nerf Mug so that it couldn’t critically hit any more while still leaving CnD in its inferior state.

Can you remember the last time you saw a D/D thief in PvP? No? Me neither. D/P are the current king because of its utilities (blind, teleports, stealth on-demand). Bringing CnD back to where it was would make D/D the king of burst again and it would possibly make it viable in competitive play again.

I for one would love to see this change.

Revealed
Revealed in PvE/WvW; 3 seconds, in PvP; 4 seconds.

Many of you may think that this isn’t a big thing, but just go and try it out, you’ll notice it. The dagger auto attack chain is exactly 3 seconds long, which makes it feel natural to hit CnD right after the last attack of the chain, but this is not possible in PvP.

Anet said that they want the transition from PvE to PvP to feel seamless – this isn’t seamless. If you actively play all game modes then this is a real pain! It just feels clunky and unnatural in its current state, while 3 seconds feel just perfect.

I believe that this is also one of the main reasons Dagger off-hand isn’t viable in PvP. Reverting this change would be huge for the thief! Remember; we can’t contest points while in stealth, which was one of the reasons they did this change (we could contest points before). Now that contesting was fixed I think it should be natural to revert the change and open up new build options for PvP.

TL:DR
Revert the Revealed and Cloak and Dagger nerf.

What do you guys think about this?

the revealed is NOT a big thing considering how every other rogue in every other mmo operates. i’d say thieves have it easy in that department. considering stealth in other mmo’s cannot be used in combat without spending a huge cooldown, or used to do anything but position one’s self and ambush. the thief can do this every 4 seconds.

Lightsbane.9012:

Geiir.7603:

Hey guys!

Cloak and Dagger
Remember when Cloak and Dagger got nerfed in PvP so that it did less damage? It currently uses a coefficient of 1.0 while in PvE/WvW it is 1.5. I remember that one of the arguments used when this nerf was made was that it was because the combined damage of CnD, Mug and Backstab was just too much – later Anet decided to nerf Mug so that it couldn’t critically hit any more while still leaving CnD in its inferior state.

Can you remember the last time you saw a D/D thief in PvP? No? Me neither. D/P are the current king because of its utilities (blind, teleports, stealth on-demand). Bringing CnD back to where it was would make D/D the king of burst again and it would possibly make it viable in competitive play again.

I for one would love to see this change.

Revealed
Revealed in PvE/WvW; 3 seconds, in PvP; 4 seconds.

Many of you may think that this isn’t a big thing, but just go and try it out, you’ll notice it. The dagger auto attack chain is exactly 3 seconds long, which makes it feel natural to hit CnD right after the last attack of the chain, but this is not possible in PvP.

Anet said that they want the transition from PvE to PvP to feel seamless – this isn’t seamless. If you actively play all game modes then this is a real pain! It just feels clunky and unnatural in its current state, while 3 seconds feel just perfect.

I believe that this is also one of the main reasons Dagger off-hand isn’t viable in PvP. Reverting this change would be huge for the thief! Remember; we can’t contest points while in stealth, which was one of the reasons they did this change (we could contest points before). Now that contesting was fixed I think it should be natural to revert the change and open up new build options for PvP.

TL:DR
Revert the Revealed and Cloak and Dagger nerf.

What do you guys think about this?

the revealed is NOT a big thing considering how every other rogue in every other mmo operates. i’d say thieves have it easy in that department. considering stealth in other mmo’s cannot be used in combat without spending a huge cooldown, or used to do anything but position one’s self and ambush. the thief can do this every 4 seconds.

It is still a huge difference when playing third to transition from PvE/WvW to PvP.

Yeah, other MMO’s have completely different takes on stealth. you simply can’t compare them by saying this. Other MMO’s have stealth openers and then the rogue/assassin have other strong abilities to use outside stealth. Dagger sets in gw2 doesn’t have that.