Guild Wars 2

So, from my experiences playing as a warrior, I’ve found Healing Signet to just be ridiculously. Having a the highest base health regen out of anything in the game. This may seem justified given how it’s a healing skill, however, the high base health regen means that the warrior is automatically a lot tankier than others purely from the health regen alone. Throughout the entire time playing as them, I never saw any reason to change from healing signet, and barely ever wanted to activate it, considering how the passive healing is easily twice as strong as the active heal.

The 2 simplest ways to making the other healing skills more viable are to

1. Increase healing on the other skills avaliable, or reduce cooldowns so the heals are more readily avaliable.

2. Reduce the passive healing from Healing signet.

Either that or a combination of the two. However, by reducing healing signets total healing, it could very well be seen as worse than all the others. Therefore, if the healing power contribution ratio were to be increased alongside a decrease to the base healing power of the signet. It would emphasize more tanky builds for the use of healing signet, as opposed to just being the healing skill for every warrior.

Also, for comparison as to just how powerful Healing signets passive is, here’s a comparison to the other heal signets passives (Healing signet heals 362 every second):

Necromancer: Heals 325 base healing (Though double healing power contribution) whenever the necro takes damage, 1 second cooldown. (Likely healing a bit slower than once every second), However, has the most powerful active out of any signet, With an initial base heal of 3,960 (Other signet heals are 3,275 base) and a further healing of 392 to the first 25 strikes against a target in 6 seconds. Also dealing a bonus 201 damage per hit.

Thief: Heals for 132 base healing with each attack. Since thieves attack quite fast, this means they can get quite a lot of healing from this, however, they must be constantly active in the fight in order to do this.

Elementalist: Heals for 202 base healing with every spell cast. This is a bit of a weaker version of the thiefs, and given how both are rather evasive (At least at melee), this one seems to be the weakest signet in most situations, as dagger elementalists normally hit about half as fast as theives, and staff/scepter elementalists normally taking four times as long.

Looking at the comparison, I would also recommend a small buff for the elementalist signet. Perhaps something along the lines of its active refreshing element switching or something? Just a suggestion.

Maybe they could make the active heal more like the original GW1 skill, where it’s a fairly long cast and you take increased damage while activating it.

Ok, not to be rude..but you’ve shown a real ignorance here stating elementalist heal signet is the weakest. The standard model ele is 0-0-2-6-6- Giving them full water line healing and boons. The average ele using their attunements will pump out 15-19k healing per 10-12 seconds with celestial gear. The warrior only receives their base tick every second. This is why so, so, so many people want to see the ele nerfed. Check all the QQ threads about them and particularly celestial builds. Nobody in game heals faster than a ele and you want to see that heal get buffed. You’re banana’s my friend. Also to mention SoV is asking for the necro community to shoot you down..the overwhelming amount of threads about SoV being entirely useless are abundant.

In the end, warrior healing signet did get nerfed. This was right after the dev’s stating they wouldn’t nerf healing signet until a better active had been designed..60 days later it got nerfed with no active redesign.

You also can’t compare heals. There is too many other variables that need to be included when trying to compare/contrast. It is not a good idea to measure healing in a pound for pound way.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

The average ele using their attunements will pump out 15-19k healing per 10-12 seconds with celestial gear.

Ok. Stop over inflating and over exaggerating. That’s a straight up lie.

You might be able to put out about 14k healing every 15 seconds with complete clerics gear in WvW fully buffed and ascended with around 2,000 healing power.

So stop lying. Now please. That statement is cancerous.

at the moment, warrior’s healing signet is fine, in a very good spot and does not require further adjustments. thank you.

for your information,

warriors cannot
- enter death shroud ever, unlike necromancers
- enter stealth by themselves, unlike thieves
- apply protection boons by themselves, unlike elementalists

warriors face tanks all damage with healing signet or dodges because they do not have other options.

however, i do not oppose having a small buff to the elementalist’s healing signet.

it is the year of our lord 2014 and people are still complaining about healing signet

regarding ele’s signet: there’s a gm trait that allows them to utilize both the active and passive parts at the same time. it’s pretty stong with that, but going heavy earth for that generally isn’t worth it due to signet builds having relatively poor defenses.
They’d benefit from the active doing something other than healing, so that it doesn’t have to be balanced around having that GM. For example, granting quickness would be neat as a berzerk button for those without it, while still synergizing with the passive if you do opt for the gm.

regarding war’s signet: the problem is really that that’s no gameplay required to access it’s power, and it’s one of the strongest sustain heals in the game.
honestly, the best structure for it would be a lower passive regen, but change the active to be a very strong heal over time. a bit like a combo of ranger’s troll ungent/signet of wild passive.
at least, i think that’d make it more fun to play with/against.

sinject.4607:

it is the year of our lord 2014 and people are still complaining about healing signet

cuz its wack yo.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

at the moment, warrior’s healing signet is fine, in a very good spot and does not require further adjustments. thank you.

No. No it isn’t. Because it is an option in which 100% passive behavior is the best option.

sinject.4607:

it is the year of our lord 2014 and people are still complaining about healing signet

Which seems contradictory considering how hard you bash IP. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You either are fine with Incendiary Powder and Healing signet as passive effects, or you are not. You cannot support one and condemn the other, and be balanced in your perspective.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

at the moment, warrior’s healing signet is fine, in a very good spot and does not require further adjustments. thank you.

for your information,

warriors cannot
- enter death shroud ever, unlike necromancers
- enter stealth by themselves, unlike thieves
- apply protection boons by themselves, unlike elementalists

warriors face tanks all damage with healing signet or dodges because they do not have other options.

however, i do not oppose having a small buff to the elementalist’s healing signet.

you forgot to mention that warriors have access to stances, blocks and evades ( both from extra dodges and whirwind attack) . Yes they have to abasolutely facetank everything.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Which seems contradictory considering how hard you bash IP. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You either are fine with Incendiary Powder and Healing signet as passive effects, or you are not. You cannot support one and condemn the other, and be balanced in your perspective.

incendiary powder has absolutely zero counterplay as it cannot be predicted or avoided thanks to the absence of any form of broadcast as well as it’s very low cooldown time + guaranteed proc rate. IP gives engineer far too much uptime on burning when coupled with balthazaar runes, a condition that can hit for anywhere between 650-700hp per tick on rabid 6/0/0/6/2 engineer. IP drastically bolsters engineer’s ranged presence and overcompensates their weakness to kiting.

healing signet has already been nerfed, is an entirely defensive tool, is very susceptible to poison and condition pressure in general, and leaves warrior without a way to recover from burst damage like active heals do.

incendiary powder is broken. healing signet is not.

i might not appreciate passive mechanics, but i’m fine with them until they carrying builds like IP does. IP simply overperforms for what it is; an entirely passive trait with zero counterplay.

sinject.4607:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Which seems contradictory considering how hard you bash IP. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You either are fine with Incendiary Powder and Healing signet as passive effects, or you are not. You cannot support one and condemn the other, and be balanced in your perspective.

incendiary powder has absolutely zero counterplay as it cannot be predicted or avoided thanks to the absence of any form of broadcast as well as it’s very low cooldown time + guaranteed proc rate. IP gives engineer far too much uptime on burning when coupled with balthazaar runes, a condition that can hit for anywhere between 650-700hp per tick on rabid 6/0/0/6/2 engineer. IP drastically bolsters engineer’s ranged presence and overcompensates their weakness to kiting.

healing signet has already been nerfed, is an entirely defensive tool, is very susceptible to poison and condition pressure in general, and leaves warrior without a way to recover from burst damage like active heals do.

incendiary powder is broken. healing signet is not.

i might not appreciate passive mechanics, but i’m fine with them until they carrying builds like IP does. IP simply overperforms for what it is; an entirely passive trait with zero counterplay.

Healing signet is broken on the warrior kit. They already have several methods of removing conditions, they have time frames of heavy defense, mobility on some builds to simply run and recover. Poison only goes so far, but it is easily removed and now you’re trying to take down someone who has constant condition removal and already high health/armor. A majority of warrior builds can recover from spikes just by simple retaliation (not the boon) and/or putting up those defensive options and letting HS tick them back up and it cannot be removed.

They don’t have to press a single button and they get all this healing while most other healing skills the other 7 professions use are small bursts with thought behind them. For example, shelter on guardian or withdraw on thief can be used to avoid bursts and to heal but it is an active and a cooldown they have to pay attention to, healing signet you can play normally and not make those decisions ever. Passive play is pathetic for a game meant to be fast paced. That goes for offensive and defensive mechanics like IP and nightmare runes, the game shouldn’t play for you.

I thought HS got a nerf in the april patch? Or am I trippin’?

You simply forget the fact that other classes’ heals heal more % of their HP pool
compare warriors’ heals to warrior’s health pool
Which means their heals are more valuable compared to warriors ones, that’s why even most of the warrior heals heal a lot, bring those heals would mean death sentence to warrior.

and other classes maintain their health by such as guardian blocks, thief stealth, dodges, clone blocks, blind fields, chaos fields, invulnerability and tons of other sustain abilities.

but i do agree all passive signet heals are bad design, but, there’s no viable heal for warrior other than signet.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT, what, what did i just read, so it’s a thread in disguise.

so in the end, you just want to buff the one of the most OP build (dd ele) in the game right? great, great, great, why did i even take you seriously.

NinjaEd.3946:

They don’t have to press a single button and they get all this healing while most other healing skills the other 7 professions use are small bursts with thought behind them.

Because they don’t have such button. All other heal skills are borderline useless and there is no way to get any other meaningful heal source without investing into GM trait of support line.

I’ve sat here for about 15 minutes trying to type up a good argument but just can’t bring it together. so I’ll just say this.

Healing signet isn’t op, just the warrior has a lot of defense to compliment the passive heal with its stances, mobility, and CC. It’s also a profession that, I believe, has fulfilled its class concept of being a juggernaut that not only relishes, but grows stronger as the fight goes on. (yes i know it still has bugs, but still, it has fulfilled that design of being a first in, last out type of profession).

I also think its the case of some other profession not reaching their fulfilled design. Necromancer is a good example, like the warrior, its a profession that is supposed to grow stronger, or at least stay constant as the fight goes on…yet it is probably the worst at doing that because of its lack of defense.

So my take, don’t nerf healing signet, just give the other professions ways to sustain themselves in a fight in a way that is unique to their profession, and maybe make the other warrior heals worth taking. Hell, maybe make mending flip conditions to boons.

HS QQ again, oh god -_-

ok how about a deal ???

make Anet adjusts Mending to heal for 8k and ill stop using Healing signet.

no ??

ok then, how about deleting healing signet but give us in return stealth, protection, regeneration, perma evade, water fields and shadowsteps ???

???
??
?

advice to OP, you have to look at the whole picture.

sinject.4607:

incendiary powder has absolutely zero counterplay as it cannot be predicted

Are you talking about IP or healing signet, I can’t tell, because your statement literally describes them both. It is odd, because you previous stated that passive play is horrible. Yet your okay with it here. Does your opinion change to suit your argument?

sinject.4607:

or avoided thanks to the absence of any form of broadcast

Are you talking about IP or healing signet, I can’t tell, because your statement literally describes them both. It is odd, because you previous stated that passive play is horrible. Yet your okay with it here. Does your opinion change to suit your argument?

sinject.4607:

healing signet has already been nerfed,

So has IP, and some other passive skills you have attack in some of your post.

sinject.4607:

is an entirely defensive tool, is very susceptible to poison and condition pressure in general, and leaves warrior without a way to recover from burst damage like active heals do.

Actually, when combined with the immunity of stances, it recovers from burst rather easily. As well it allows for a warrior to continue doing damage, yet other professions have to stop damage output to heal, and can have thier heal 100% negated by interruption.

sinject.4607:

incendiary powder is broken. healing signet is not.

Broken doesn’t mean what you appear to believe it means.

sinject.4607:

i might not appreciate passive mechanics,

Actually I can link to you other post and quote you here if you like, but you have stated they are both “horrible” and “designed for bad players”. Would you like me to link those for you?

sinject.4607:

but i’m fine with them until they carrying builds

Right. Because a skill that carries every build, to the point that you literally never have to worry about healing yourself doesn’t just go beyond carrying a build, but it literally carries the profession.

Simon.3794:

You simply forget the fact that other classes’ heals heal more % of their HP pool
compare warriors’ heals to warrior’s health pool
Which means their heals are more valuable compared to warriors ones, that’s why even most of the warrior heals heal a lot, bring those heals would mean death sentence to warrior.

and other classes maintain their health by such as guardian blocks, thief stealth, dodges, clone blocks, blind fields, chaos fields, invulnerability and tons of other sustain abilities.

but i do agree all passive signet heals are bad design, but, there’s no viable heal for warrior other than signet.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT, what, what did i just read, so it’s a thread in disguise.

so in the end, you just want to buff the one of the most OP build (dd ele) in the game right? great, great, great, why did i even take you seriously.

So you figure that the highest health tier profession has a low percent of their max health being healed that people must have extra damage against it? I don’t get your math at all, you simply threw out the million other elements that make up a profession’s defense and looked at the worst possible number. Nice try.

As for blocks/blind/stealth/etc, it is no different that a warrior having stances, perma vigor, blocks/reflects, gap openers, cc, etc. Every class has options in defending themselves, but healing signet is the obvious outlier where you don’t have to do anything and it works better than the alternatives. Ever since the buff to HS, there has been no contender and HS passive isn’t the only one to blame. It comes down to addressing the other healing skills and HS active, none of which can compete even after they shaved 7% of w/e amount it was.

I’d love for you to quote me on saying I want a buff to ele healing signet. I’ll be awaiting that one….

NinjaEd.3946:

As for blocks/blind/stealth/etc, it is no different that a warrior having stances, perma vigor, blocks/reflects, gap openers, cc, etc. .

you simply don’t understand the fact that one skill on focus of ele is more powerful then 3 stances combined together, nor like you understand how good are instant cast able blocks. nor like you understand how teleportation is better then any gap closer or disengage warrior has, nor like you understand how good is protection, nor like you understand evade is the closes thing to invulnerability, nor like you understand how much benefit you get from having 15+ more skills or skills without CD and a handful of soft CC available to you and etc. these are the things that balance with warrior’s extra health, less so the healing skills. The higher the % of your HP pool a healing skill heals, the more valuable it is. not the amount it heals, also the lower the CD the better cuz sustain, really just a ratio between CD and % heal, but i guess you understand non of these, because you probably only play thieves and have little multi class pvp experience. really, you can go play a mending or healing surge warrior against anything non-noob, you will notice how the healing skill which has the most burst heal(10k hp with 30 CD and 5.5k hp with 15 CD)are part of the worst heal in the game.

and you clearly did not read what OP posted in his thread, i like how you just assume i was talking to you without me quoting you. really funny of your part.

Simon.3794:

NinjaEd.3946:

As for blocks/blind/stealth/etc, it is no different that a warrior having stances, perma vigor, blocks/reflects, gap openers, cc, etc. .

you simply don’t understand the fact that one skill on focus of ele is more powerful then 3 stances combined together, nor like you understand how good are instant cast able blocks. nor like you understand how teleportation is better then any gap closer or disengage warrior has, nor like you understand how good is protection, nor like you understand evade is the closes thing to invulnerability, nor like you understand how much benefit you get from having 15+ more skills or skills without CD and a handful of soft CC available to you and etc. these are the things that balance with warrior’s extra health, less so the healing skills. The higher the % of your HP pool a healing skill heals, the more valuable it is. not the amount it heals, also the lower the CD the better cuz sustain, really just a ratio between CD and % heal, but i guess you understand non of these, because you probably only play thieves and have little multi class pvp experience. really, you can go play a mending or healing surge warrior against anything non-noob, you will notice how the healing skill which has the most burst heal(10k hp with 30 CD and 5.5k hp with 15 CD)are part of the worst heal in the game.

and you clearly did not read what OP posted in his thread, i like how you just assume i was talking to you without me quoting you. really funny of your part.

You are competing for the worst balance analysis right now after that. You think healing for ~4.5k on a thief at all equates to ~380 per second on a tanky profession? You are looking at 1 set of numbers and blindly comparing them, and it is making it hard to take anything you say seriously. Also obsiean flesh is a 50 second cooldown lasting 4 seconds on the ele kit, warrior stances can adapt to the fight without wasting them aside from rolling their face on the keyboard when someone spikes them.

And no evasion does not equal invulnerability, there are unblockable walls/rings and there is a thing called baiting. Even if evasion is your arguement, there are methods of a warrior maintaining perma-vigor with little effort. If you wana compare defensive weapon skills blindly I’m going to just laugh if you think warrior has the short end of the stick.

So when you wana pick up the pencil and actual compare one profession’s sustain compared to another’s, I’d suggest you start by not putting 2 mechanics right up against one another and concluding your research. You’re only seeing like 10% of the picture bud.

Maybe once Warriors get a way to mitigate raw damage other than eating all of it with the very rare exception that they give up the healing signet to get Hp FROM eating damage or press their 4 second “No Damage” Button (Rangers have 6 seconds, mind you) that has a minute CD / use a block, we can talk about how “OP” their healing is compared to other classes that can mitigate it with Stealths, protection, blinks, walls, fears, shrouds, outright invulnerability, and turrets.

Numbers aren’t everything.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Maybe once Warriors get a way to mitigate raw damage other than eating all of it with the very rare exception that they give up the healing signet to get Hp FROM eating damage or press their 4 second “No Damage” Button (Rangers have 6 seconds, mind you) that has a minute CD / use a block, we can talk about how “OP” their healing is compared to other classes that can mitigate it with Stealths, protection, blinks, walls, fears, shrouds, outright invulnerability, and turrets.

Numbers aren’t everything.

Don’t forget the extra dodges ,evade skill and massive amounts of cc ( one of them is a fear btw).

Tim.6450:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Maybe once Warriors get a way to mitigate raw damage other than eating all of it with the very rare exception that they give up the healing signet to get Hp FROM eating damage or press their 4 second “No Damage” Button (Rangers have 6 seconds, mind you) that has a minute CD / use a block, we can talk about how “OP” their healing is compared to other classes that can mitigate it with Stealths, protection, blinks, walls, fears, shrouds, outright invulnerability, and turrets.

Numbers aren’t everything.

Don’t forget the extra dodges ,evade skill and massive amounts of cc ( one of them is a fear btw).

Extra dodges? You mean from the burst skills that dont give you the extra dodge if you miss that one telegraphed move for any reason? or from the warhorn that requires you to not have a shield?
Evade skill? You mean whirlwind? the whirlwind that lasts 3/4s of a second?
True on condi cleanse. condi is not raw damage though.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Extra dodges? You mean from the burst skills that dont give you the extra dodge if you miss that one telegraphed move for any reason?

The longbow burst skill never ‘misses’.

or from the warhorn that requires you to not have a shield?

or the vigor on stances trait and the signet of stamina.

Evade skill? You mean whirlwind? the whirlwind that lasts 3/4s of a second?

Which is still longer then flanking strike.

True on condi cleanse. condi is not raw damage though.

I meant crowd control, like stuns, knockback, knockdowns, launches,fears,… .

Tim.6450:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Extra dodges? You mean from the burst skills that dont give you the extra dodge if you miss that one telegraphed move for any reason?

The longbow burst skill never ‘misses’.

or from the warhorn that requires you to not have a shield?

or the vigor on stances trait and the signet of stamina.

Evade skill? You mean whirlwind? the whirlwind that lasts 3/4s of a second?

Which is still longer then flanking strike.

True on condi cleanse. condi is not raw damage though.

I meant crowd control, like stuns, knockback, knockdowns, launches,fears,… .

cc in exchange for mobility, though. No issues about Fear.

NinjaEd.3946:

You are competing for the worst balance analysis right now after that. You think healing for ~4.5k on a thief at all equates to ~380 per second on a tanky profession? You are looking at 1 set of numbers and blindly comparing them, and it is making it hard to take anything you say seriously. Also obsiean flesh is a 50 second cooldown lasting 4 seconds on the ele kit, warrior stances can adapt to the fight without wasting them aside from rolling their face on the keyboard when someone spikes them.

Actually you are really competing with the worst analyze right now, because you are actually the one who simply compare one number to another. by your very means, healing surge should be one of the best heals in the game, because it heals for 10k and mending is clearly better then withdraw, because it heals more and remove more conditions. no that’s not how it works, you need to look at the bigger picture which you are clearly not doing, you lie to yourself how other people not seeing the big picture while you are the one who only sees a tiny side of it. also about obe flesh, it still does not change the fact that this one skill is better then 3 stances combined, it was merely a simple example, if you really want to compare the whole weapon set, focus air 4 can completely ignore all attack of longbow, really, when warrior switch to longbow you open focus air 4, you negate all his attacks. also nor like you know how two of the stances are 60 CD and how other classes got better offensive and defensive options, like all the other examples i’ve listed which you decided to ignore, because of your ego.

NinjaEd.3946:

And no evasion does not equal invulnerability, there are unblockable walls/rings and there is a thing called baiting. Even if evasion is your arguement, there are methods of a warrior maintaining perma-vigor with little effort. If you wana compare defensive weapon skills blindly I’m going to just laugh if you think warrior has the short end of the stick.

Did i ever say evasion equals invulnerability, quote me on that, because the simple fact that guardian can still pull evading enemy with greatsword, but other then that, evasions are small invulnerability frames. really, it’s not hard to understand.

NinjaEd.3946:

So when you wana pick up the pencil and actual compare one profession’s sustain compared to another’s, I’d suggest you start by not putting 2 mechanics right up against one another and concluding your research. You’re only seeing like 10% of the picture bud.

Really, you are the one who sees close to no picture

Healing Signet is not OP given the context of the class of a whole. However that doesn’t mean that there should be changes. Warriors get a bad rep for having so many passive benefits, there is an upside and a downside to this. The upside is that it makes the class more forgiving compared to others and there is a low-skill level entry into playing this class.

The downside to it is that once you start getting into higher level play, it is actually the passivity of such mechanics that put the Warrior at a disadvantage and really limits us in what we can do.

A good start would be to actually make the active worth using. Another good start would be to make the healing more active somehow.

Healing Signet is a very good heal, it is not that it is a very powerful heal moreso than it is the only Heal. The other heals do not meet the needs of most Warrior builds and are just flat-out not very good. Thus leaving Healing Signet as the only option.

A good and simple change to mending would be to up the healing value of Mending to 6,300. This actually makes it an instantly viable heal, you can even nerf the amount of conditions it removes to two. Perfectly fair.

A good and simple change to Healing Surge would be to do something like this.

Heal and gain adrenaline based off of your remaining health

66%-100% Health - 7,000 Health and one bar of Adrenaline
33%-66% Health - 8,500 Health and two bars of Adrenaline
Below 33% Health - 10,000 Health and three bars of Adrenaline

However I will say, simply pressing 1 button doesn’t add skill to a class. People should stop pretending like it does. Sure you can’t interrupt Healing Signet and there is no counterplay in terms of interrupting it. However, the Warrior can’t counterplay poison effecting the healing values of Healing Signet. Even 1 second of poison reduces its effectiveness. Where as with a burst healing skill, you can remove poison and heal for the full amount.

Simon.3794:

you simply don’t understand the fact that one skill on focus of ele is more powerful then 3 stances combined together, nor like you understand how good are instant cast able blocks. nor like you understand how teleportation is better then any gap closer or disengage warrior has, nor like you understand how good is protection, nor like you understand evade is the closes thing to invulnerability, nor like you understand how much benefit you get from having 15+ more skills or skills without CD and a handful of soft CC available to you and etc. these are the things that balance with warrior’s extra health, less so the healing skills. The higher the % of your HP pool a healing skill heals, the more valuable it is. not the amount it heals, also the lower the CD the better cuz sustain, really just a ratio between CD and % heal, but i guess you understand non of these, because you probably only play thieves and have little multi class pvp experience. really, you can go play a mending or healing surge warrior against anything non-noob, you will notice how the healing skill which has the most burst heal(10k hp with 30 CD and 5.5k hp with 15 CD)are part of the worst heal in the game.

and you clearly did not read what OP posted in his thread, i like how you just assume i was talking to you without me quoting you. really funny of your part.

You need to explain yourself better. All your doing is blurting out how such and such skill is equivalent to such and such skills on the warrior. Unless you break down, in detail, how they compare, and function the same, you just blowing smoke.

Besides that, you completely failing to justify any of it. They do not have the passive healing of warrior heal signet, the same health pool, or the same base defense.

Simon.3794:

NinjaEd.3946:

You are competing for the worst balance analysis right now after that. You think healing for ~4.5k on a thief at all equates to ~380 per second on a tanky profession? You are looking at 1 set of numbers and blindly comparing them, and it is making it hard to take anything you say seriously. Also obsiean flesh is a 50 second cooldown lasting 4 seconds on the ele kit, warrior stances can adapt to the fight without wasting them aside from rolling their face on the keyboard when someone spikes them.

Actually you are really competing with the worst analyze right now, because you are actually the one who simply compare one number to another. by your very means, healing surge should be one of the best heals in the game, because it heals for 10k and mending is clearly better then withdraw, because it heals more and remove more conditions. no that’s not how it works, you need to look at the bigger picture which you are clearly not doing, you lie to yourself how other people not seeing the big picture while you are the one who only sees a tiny side of it. also about obe flesh, it still does not change the fact that this one skill is better then 3 stances combined, it was merely a simple example, if you really want to compare the whole weapon set, focus air 4 can completely ignore all attack of longbow, really, when warrior switch to longbow you open focus air 4, you negate all his attacks. also nor like you know how two of the stances are 60 CD and how other classes got better offensive and defensive options, like all the other examples i’ve listed which you decided to ignore, because of your ego.

You’re just pulling things out of thin air at this point. I’d take the time to address the multiple factors that swoop right over your head but it’d do no good.

You flip flop like a fishy politician and I have no business with you anymore.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

at the moment, warrior’s healing signet is fine, in a very good spot and does not require further adjustments. thank you.

for your information,

warriors cannot
- enter death shroud ever, unlike necromancers
- enter stealth by themselves, unlike thieves
- apply protection boons by themselves, unlike elementalists

warriors face tanks all damage with healing signet or dodges because they do not have other options.

however, i do not oppose having a small buff to the elementalist’s healing signet.

erm…. stances and high ammounts of cc are not ways to avoid damage? who knew

unlucky.9285:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

at the moment, warrior’s healing signet is fine, in a very good spot and does not require further adjustments. thank you.

for your information,

warriors cannot
- enter death shroud ever, unlike necromancers
- enter stealth by themselves, unlike thieves
- apply protection boons by themselves, unlike elementalists

warriors face tanks all damage with healing signet or dodges because they do not have other options.

however, i do not oppose having a small buff to the elementalist’s healing signet.

erm…. stances and high ammounts of cc are not ways to avoid damage? who knew

stances have short duration, long recharge time.

berserker stance does not remove existing conditions.

endure pain does not prevent existing conditions from bleeding poisoning burning the warrior away.

balanced stance is not a true stance as stability applied via balanced stance can be easily removed.

cc skills have large telegraphs and can be avoided by the opponent via dodges, blocks, blinds, etc.

seriously, warriors are not overpowered.
stop whining already.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

unlucky.9285:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

at the moment, warrior’s healing signet is fine, in a very good spot and does not require further adjustments. thank you.

for your information,

warriors cannot
- enter death shroud ever, unlike necromancers
- enter stealth by themselves, unlike thieves
- apply protection boons by themselves, unlike elementalists

warriors face tanks all damage with healing signet or dodges because they do not have other options.

however, i do not oppose having a small buff to the elementalist’s healing signet.

erm…. stances and high ammounts of cc are not ways to avoid damage? who knew

stances have short duration, long recharge time.

berserker stance does not remove existing conditions.

endure pain does not prevent existing conditions from bleeding poisoning burning the warrior away.

balanced stance is not a true stance as stability applied via balanced stance can be easily removed.

cc skills have large telegraphs and can be avoided by the opponent via dodges, blocks, blinds, etc.

seriously, warriors are not overpowered.
stop whining already.

1- So you want them to have high up time? That would be awful balance given their current properties.

2- Its no different from shelter lasting a mere 1.25 seconds yet people can use it to mitigate a very large sum of damage. You have to know how to use your skills properly to see any effect.

3- not all stances are invulnerabilities, again it would be awful balance if they were. You shouldn’t be dependent on stances alone anyways to keep you alive.

4- there are not a whole lot of boon removal/conversion options aside from necro and Mesmer. Even so, warrior has the highest access to stability. I hope people realize that stability is a very strong boon to have in this game.

5- fear me says hello^^ Also regardless of cc being telegraphed, you cannot dodge everything forever and warrior has a lot of access to cc. Its not impossible to just smash 1-5 with some random other cc (burst, utility) and having something land long enough for you to put a dent in your foe.

6- warrior skill level is below the sewers and its place in pve/wvw/pvp is most certainly not. No class should be this forgiving when it makes mistakes, but with the adrenaline “super nerf” they are slowly getting there. Enjoy your passive play style while you can.

I don’t really see a problem with Healing Signet.
Compare it to other Healing Skills and you will see what i mean. Thief and Ele are close to Warrior Healing Signet, Engi and Mesmer CAN heal more than the Warrior.
I compared ALL Healing Skills from EVERY class with the Warrior Healing Signet. I did this in german so i need to translate it befor i post it. Maybe i will have time for it at the weekend. If someone want to translate it for me PM me. I´ll give you the text.
Otherwise you need to wait for the weekend.

Healing Signet got another problem. You CANT heal bursts well. If you take a burst you need a lot of time to regain your health.

Warriors are not op its just there defensive are very passive and you cant really burst down a warrior fast . Regardless if they are good or bad its just take a bit of time to kill these guys. This is why warrior are generally never a first target

Your right. Warriors are not OP. Personally, I feel that the change to adrenaline, put them in a very solid place.

The problem is, that you have posters on this thread who slam other professions for having passive skills or traits. Some of the posters here, have an extensive history of post, in which they emphatically state that any passive are bad game design, and have even gone as far to suggest that players are bad for using them. Yet they defend passives such as healing signet, because now the discussion is about their main, or preferred profession.

You cannot attack reapers mark, Mirror of Anguish, Incendiary powder, renewing stamina, soothing wave, etc. etc. Yet be in favor of passive on another profession. The double standard is getting over the top.

HS is fine and warriors after the last changes are balanced. People only need to check this link to see what people think what is strong or weak.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/SPVP-Tier-List

There are classes that need some nerfs but right now warrior is not one of them.

NinjaEd.3946:

-snip- Quip about Stability

6- warrior skill level is below the sewers and its place in pve/wvw/pvp is most certainly not. No class should be this forgiving when it makes mistakes, but with the adrenaline “super nerf” they are slowly getting there. Enjoy your passive play style while you can.

Guardians have highest stability access.

I wouldnt call Warrior skill floor low with all of the decap engies, rangers, C-eles, Terrormancers, and P-Mesmers out there.

Skill ceiling is low though. In higher tier play, Warriors are incredibly weak 1v1 because of their passivity.

If warrior skill ceiling is increased to allow them better control over their combat to compensate for the presumed need for a rising skill floor, I am all for it. All people seem to be concerned about is hiking up the skill floor so that people founder aimlessly with them, while giving no opinion or suggestion as to how the ceiling could be improved to make them even remotely relevant in High tier play (because apparently bunker is too passive as well.)

Make them difficult to play with only an average reward? While “drop crate to win, its okay ill just stealth” exist? Good luck.

Meanwhile guardians, who decap points all day and outclass warriors if they spec medi, have absolutely nothing said about them.

It seems warrior is the only class that needs to ‘prove its worth’ to anyone else , while the other classes are happily being just as passive with skills and class mechanics instead of minimalistic healing that can’t mitigate burst.

Let anet do as they please though. The people that abuse the ‘cheap’ tactics warrior has won’t just vanish if Anet decides to listen to this drivel. Theyll just move on to something just as easy and make their passivity more glaring, like they did with the ranger buff.

sinject.4607:

it is the year of our lord 2014 and people are still complaining about healing signet

People are still complaining about it and will continue to do so because it doesn’t matter how much they nerf healing signet.

So long as it makes all defensive play, even defense play against the warrior, work in the warriors favor, it will STILL be one of the most anti-fun abilities in the entire game, or most games at all.

how about making warrior Healing signet over time heal scale with adrenaline?

kyubi.3620:

how about making warrior Healing signet over time heal scale with adrenaline?

That depends wholly on what it starts off as initially, whether the active remains the same or not, and what it ticks at for max adrenaline.

Because right now, we give up kittening everything when we use burst. Damage, Adrenal, condi cleanse if it misses. If it’s too low on 0 adren we become an easy meal for thieves.

And frankly I dont want anything else tied to a mechanic we can only barely use at the moment.

I’m curious as to your numbers, but It’s probably already a no for me. People keep tacking on ways to make us micromanage more and all too often ignore rewards for doing so, especially in the off chance we land a highly telegraphed attack in a world full of blinds, evades, dodges, interrupts, and etc.

kyubi.3620:

how about making warrior Healing signet over time heal scale with adrenaline?

The developers have stated they kind of regret putting in so many traits that reward you for not using your adrenaline already, so I doubt they are going to add more.

But I’ve had a similar idea. What about making healing signet heal whenever you gain adrenaline, scaling to the adrenaline gained? This means that passive portion would require active play with your weapon skills, as well as be able to be supplemented by other abilities which grant you adrenaline, such as the signets and several traits. This would also make it work better with faster more active weapons than slower more passive control weapons like the LB and hammer. Giving the warriors control bunker builds the nerfs they have needed for a long time without sacrificing other builds.

As an active, it would basically reverse, resetting your burst skills cooldown and causing expending your adrenaline to heal you.

Conncept.7638:

kyubi.3620:

how about making warrior Healing signet over time heal scale with adrenaline?

The developers have stated they kind of regret putting in so many traits that reward you for not using your adrenaline already, so I doubt they are going to add more.

But I’ve had a similar idea. What about making healing signet heal whenever you gain adrenaline, scaling to the adrenaline gained? This means that passive portion would require active play with your weapon skills, as well as be able to be supplemented by other abilities which grant you adrenaline, such as the signets and several traits. This would also make it work better with faster more active weapons than slower more passive control weapons like the LB and hammer. Giving the warriors control bunker builds the nerfs they have needed for a long time without sacrificing other builds.

As an active, it would basically reverse, resetting your burst skills cooldown and causing expending your adrenaline to heal you.

So, you become a wall that heals every time that you are hit if you have traited CI, and then can heal again by draining all adrenaline with the active?

on a 20 second cooldown?

So… an always- on defiant stance?

Conncept.7638:

kyubi.3620:

how about making warrior Healing signet over time heal scale with adrenaline?

The developers have stated they kind of regret putting in so many traits that reward you for not using your adrenaline already, so I doubt they are going to add more.

But I’ve had a similar idea. What about making healing signet heal whenever you gain adrenaline, scaling to the adrenaline gained? This means that passive portion would require active play with your weapon skills, as well as be able to be supplemented by other abilities which grant you adrenaline, such as the signets and several traits. This would also make it work better with faster more active weapons than slower more passive control weapons like the LB and hammer. Giving the warriors control bunker builds the nerfs they have needed for a long time without sacrificing other builds.

As an active, it would basically reverse, resetting your burst skills cooldown and causing expending your adrenaline to heal you.

Hmm interesting. Heres a thought. What about instead of changing HS to do that, why not adjust adrenal health to do that? Instead of granting additional healing for how much adrenaline you have, why not have it for burst healing based on how much adrenaline you’ve used? Not a large amount of course, maybe in line with the current numbers, for a small amount of health gained when using adrenaline bursts. As far as the signet itself goes, grant adrenaline gain on activation, along with the healing, thus granting slightly bigger healing burst if you use an adrenaline skill immedialty afterward.

What makes Healing Signet (HS) overpowered is that is it not tied to a trigger, it just happens. That being said, Warriors are really in no shape to have any further negative adjustments at the moment.

IMO, the HS change from 2013 is still a band-aid because ANet wanted to add a healing skill to every class (we didn’t know it then) and the active effect of Defiant Stance should have been the active effect of HS with HS getting a reduction in passive effect.

TL;DR Defiant Stance’s active and Healing Signet passive should have been combined with HS getting a lower passive heal output.

pdavis.8031:

Conncept.7638:

kyubi.3620:

how about making warrior Healing signet over time heal scale with adrenaline?

The developers have stated they kind of regret putting in so many traits that reward you for not using your adrenaline already, so I doubt they are going to add more.

But I’ve had a similar idea. What about making healing signet heal whenever you gain adrenaline, scaling to the adrenaline gained? This means that passive portion would require active play with your weapon skills, as well as be able to be supplemented by other abilities which grant you adrenaline, such as the signets and several traits. This would also make it work better with faster more active weapons than slower more passive control weapons like the LB and hammer. Giving the warriors control bunker builds the nerfs they have needed for a long time without sacrificing other builds.

As an active, it would basically reverse, resetting your burst skills cooldown and causing expending your adrenaline to heal you.

Hmm interesting. Heres a thought. What about instead of changing HS to do that, why not adjust adrenal health to do that? Instead of granting additional healing for how much adrenaline you have, why not have it for burst healing based on how much adrenaline you’ve used? Not a large amount of course, maybe in line with the current numbers, for a small amount of health gained when using adrenaline bursts. As far as the signet itself goes, grant adrenaline gain on activation, along with the healing, thus granting slightly bigger healing burst if you use an adrenaline skill immedialty afterward.

And what if the burst skill misses? What’s the heal output then? Warriors don’t need more Adrenaline nerfs.

warriors are fine really, the other professions need to be brought in line.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-think-warrior-nerfed-too-much-with-proof/first#post4491252

there are no warriors in the top 50 solo arena ranking anymore.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are fine really, the other professions need to be brought in line.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-think-warrior-nerfed-too-much-with-proof/first#post4491252

there are no warriors in the top 50 solo arena ranking anymore.

As has been said a hundred times previously, this has little if anything to do with how powerful healing signet is anymore. It is still one of the least fun thing to play against in the entire game, even when balanced or underpowered.

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are fine really, the other professions need to be brought in line.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-think-warrior-nerfed-too-much-with-proof/first#post4491252

there are no warriors in the top 50 solo arena ranking anymore.

As has been said a hundred times previously, this has little if anything to do with how powerful healing signet is anymore. It is still one of the least fun thing to play against in the entire game, even when balanced or underpowered.

yeah right, so you are telling me, it is fun to play against:
- turrets
- minions
- clones
- stealth
- 1500 sniper machine gun long bow
- etc

i say, deal with it, it is a class mechanic for kitten’s sake.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are fine really, the other professions need to be brought in line.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-think-warrior-nerfed-too-much-with-proof/first#post4491252

there are no warriors in the top 50 solo arena ranking anymore.

As has been said a hundred times previously, this has little if anything to do with how powerful healing signet is anymore. It is still one of the least fun thing to play against in the entire game, even when balanced or underpowered.

yeah right, so you are telling me, it is fun to play against:
- turrets
- minions
- clones
- stealth
- 1500 sniper machine gun long bow
- etc

No they aren’t. Would you be whining about them if they were fun to play against?

The difference is several of those are not fun to play against because they are currently overpowered or poorly tuned. Healing Signet is one such that will be anti-fun no matter what nerfs are made to it.