Guild Wars 2

Please balance stealth with thieves and mesmers, as there is currently no counter-play to it. Especially with thieves because they can basically escape from ANY situation and always come back for the kill. Stealth lets them dictate when and where fights happen which, when combined with their absurd burst/CC and guaranteed blind-stomps (or stealth-stomps), makes them them the only glassy build worth playing. Mesmers can also sit in stealth while AI does all the work for them.

No other glass/zerk build can have such absurd survivability and escape tools purely due to stealth.

edit: My main point was that thieves render all other zerk/glass builds and classes pointless. The amount of survivability they have with stealth and evasion far surpasses ANYTHING any other glass/zerk build can get, except maybe mesmers (because you guessed it, stealth + AI).
A glass thief can basically risk entering any situations and getting away with stupid mistakes thanks to stealth. Any other glass/zerk class would die in 2 seconds with no way to escape.
Tell me, what remote chance does a glass ele or glass mesmer stand vs a glass thief? None, the thief can basically 2-shot them straight out of stealth. If anything goes wrong he can just re-enter stealth, heal-up and then come back for the kill.
They also have guaranteed stomps on engineers, warriors, guardians and necros with blind-field + stomp.

IMO its one of the ways how they were designed and why they have the lowest health pool. But don’t say there aren’t any counters for stealth because there are several way to still kill a thief or mesmer when they are abusing it. Mesmer even have a harder time since their cooldowns are longer so there is still a period in the fight where they will be visible for large durations of time .

The one and only issue I have is that mesmers decoy can be used over revealed.

Okay, first of all, stealth has plenty of counters. Particularly with basically any AoE attack in the game. Even your auto-attack works relatively well if you know what you’re doing.
Second, Thieves do not have absurd CC, in fact they barely have any; just a couple 45 second recharge venoms, one of which is a garbage elite skill.

If there’s one good thing about the state of Thieves in this game, it’s this; it proves the hypothesis that MOST people complaining about OP classes in games (at least this one) are just bad players.

No counter play only if you are bad. If you watch a thief vs thief fight, they know exactly where they are even if stealthed because of the experience and how predictable it is.

And about mesmers, you should be happy if they stealth, that means they just wasted a stun break. And if you let them stealth with mass invis then it only proves further that you need to l2p , that skill has a long cast time and easy to interrupt.

Want to counter stealth?

Play Ranger. They got skills that force “revealed” and unblock-able traps that does not care if you are visible or not.

AE counters stealth nicely.
That is why most thieves are extra cautious around an engineer. Not saying they can’t kill one, but it is a bit trickier.

Wintel.4873:

Please balance stealth with thieves and mesmers, as there is currently no counter-play to it. Especially with thieves because they can basically escape from ANY situation and always come back for the kill. Stealth lets them dictate when and where fights happen which, when combined with their absurd burst/CC and guaranteed blind-stomps (or stealth-stomps), makes them them the only glassy build worth playing. Mesmers can also sit in stealth while AI does all the work for them.

No other glass/zerk build can have such absurd survivability and escape tools purely due to stealth.

I found the best counter ever, stomp them in the face. But seriously, through some chains on them and auto attack the kitten out of them. throw some aoe and chills, all of that is even overkill, and you will kill the theif

Wintel.4873:

No other glass/zerk build can have such absurd survivability and escape tools purely due to stealth.

Number 1: Absurd survivability!!! what? there stealth is the only thing that keeps them playable, otherwise their survivability is pretty dang low, with stealth it is average.

Number2: Have you played any other class? Mesmer has great survivability not because of stealth, but because she can create five clones of herself, necro has basically 2 lives, warrior guardian and a few others can stun the kittent out of you. The theif’s survivability can only match those of the warrior necro or mesmer if they are played my incredible theif players. Check your info pal.

Another powned “NERF STEALTH” thread . . . check, moving on.

Aleglast.6027:

Mesmer has great survivability not because of stealth, but because she can create five clones of herself.

I wish my mesmer could have out 5 clones….

The survivability in stealth for both mesmers and thief doesn’t come from the stealth itself, but the TRAITS. Thieves can have initiative regen and health regen while in stealth, allowing them to reset fights fairly easily. Mesmers that use a lot of stealth often use PU which can grant them great access to defensive boons, also allowing them to seemingly reset the fight. However, both of these play styles have weaknesses, and PLENTY of counters in stealth. In the end, I only see 2 issues with stealth:

1) Blocking attacks doesn’t drop the attacker out of stealth, which is why you often see poor play on thieves who are just spamming until they get a hit. There is little punishment in stealth for missing your initial attack, only really attacking at a bad time (revealed)
2) You get no data on whether or not you’re hitting an opponent in stealth. This isn’t a major issue, merely a minor annoyance.

Stealth has plenty of counters, you just have to learn them.

It also depends on the context you’re speaking in. If it’s sPvP, then it’s good if they disengage because then you can heal up as well and you get to keep the node for points. If it’s WvW, then you just can’t really do anything about it. But any time a thief runs away from you, you can consider it a personal win because they knew you had beat them and they didn’t want to give you any loot.

Although if you’re in WvW, you can also deploy a stealth trap. Guaranteed to send nearly any thief running and crying back to their garrison.

I would like to see a few more skills get the same utility as the ranger’s “Sic ’em” shout, although they can’t be all over the place because a lot of thieves need stealth in order to survive anything. It’s again just inherent in their design.

I would also like to see people get revealed when they go down, but that’s a different matter entirely.

AoE and Channel skills counter stealth quite nicely. Stealth is not invulnerability.

My main point was that thieves render all other zerk/glass builds and classes pointless. The amount of survivability they have with stealth and evasion far surpasses ANYTHING any other glass/zerk build can get, except maybe mesmers (because you guessed it, stealth + AI).
A glass thief can basically risk entering any situations and getting away with stupid mistakes thanks to stealth. Any other glass/zerk class would die in 2 seconds with no way to escape.
Tell me, what remote chance does a glass ele stand vs a glass thief? None, the thief can basically 2-shot the ele and sit in stealth (or spam evades) whenever the ele tries to attack. The ele has no choice but to run celestial + cantrips.
Thieves and stealth = end of all glass builds.

Thieves are supposed to counter glass builds , that’s why they exist. The role of the thief is to get rid of opposite team’s glass cannon. You counter a thief with more sustain builds and conditions.

If thieves become weak vs builds like glass S/D ele then what’s the point of playing thief? To get owned by sustain, condi and tank builds? They have to be strong somewhere and it turns out that its against glass builds.

You can also QQ about guardians that has insane support . No other class can provide that much support to their team.

Bunker guardian= end of all other bunker builds

I want one and only one change/counter to stealth – don’t make me lose target focus.

I have no issue with them being invisible and staying invisible when damaged and my not being able to fling single target attacks while they are in stealth – my problem is it pits me against the worst tab targeting system I have EVER encountered in 12 years of MMOs when they come out of stealth. There is nothing heroic about being focused on a passing giraffe because the other guy dropped a smoke bomb. It’s dumb. It’s annoying. Its unnecessary clicking in a game already burdened with a lot of unnecessary clicking (loot pick up) masquerading as interactivity.

I want my fight to be with the other player, not with a crap UI.

a t s e.9614:

Thieves are supposed to counter glass builds , that’s why they exist. The role of the thief is to get rid of opposite team’s glass cannon. You counter a thief with more sustain builds and conditions.

If thieves become weak vs builds like glass S/D ele then what’s the point of playing thief? To get owned by sustain, condi and tank builds? They have to be strong somewhere and it turns out that its against glass builds.

Wow, so someone actually admitted that thieves easily destroy all glass builds. So you’re saying that no glass build other than thief has a place in this game, because why take a glass ele or glass mesmer when a team can just take a thief to solve all their problems?
That’s just stupidly unbalanced.

Anyway, the point of playing thief is to provide fast back-capping of capture points, spike damage when required, good mobility and guaranteed stomps with stealth/blind field.
Countering all other glass builds is just unnecessary and unbalanced.

a t s e.9614:

You can also QQ about guardians that has insane support. No other class can provide that much support to their team.

Bunker guardian= end of all other bunker builds

I take it you haven’t seen a bunker warrior or bunker engi.

How to do this logarithm, Log base of 5 y = Log base 5 (x) – Log base 5 (7)
Solve for Y in terms of X:

Log base 5 (x/y) = Log base 5 x – Log base 5 (7)

y = x/7

… Anyway, the counter is the low health and armour pool, the lack of condi clear, enemy AoE.. and Ranger [Sic ’em]. Actually, if the glassy ones initiatie, they will win, or else they have to just use their ohkitten skill first for escape before strategically placing their attacks… Maybe if you share your class, we can help teach you how to counter?

Glass guard, warrior, ele, ranger and mesmer all can do similar things to a glass theif yet having their own mechanics and cooldowns to stay alive.
With a glass match up whoever has the initiative and first attack usually wins regardless of class but by no means does that mean there is no way to recover and win the fight after being opened on by a theif.

I have watched all of the above classes deal with glass thieves and its not impossible nor hard. Hell I even do it on ranger and guardian.

Also that’s how thieves work by design. Anet even said so in the ready up. They are supposed to dive in, drop damage and duck out. 1-3 solid hits on a zerker their and they die.

Invisible=/=invincible. The only stealth I’ll let you remove is last refuge, but don’t you touch cnd O.o

Generally I disagree. I do think it’s a bit too much thieves having a smoke field and leap on the same weapon set, IMO that shouldnt be the case, and mesmers Prestige skill should have some sort of counter play like CnD and Hunters Shot do (having to actually hit something), but those are just 2 things I think go too far. In general I dont have much of an issue with stealth and its implimentation.

Wintel.4873:

a t s e.9614:

Thieves are supposed to counter glass builds , that’s why they exist. The role of the thief is to get rid of opposite team’s glass cannon. You counter a thief with more sustain builds and conditions.

If thieves become weak vs builds like glass S/D ele then what’s the point of playing thief? To get owned by sustain, condi and tank builds? They have to be strong somewhere and it turns out that its against glass builds.

Wow, so someone actually admitted that thieves easily destroy all glass builds. So you’re saying that no glass build other than thief has a place in this game, because why take a glass ele or glass mesmer when a team can just take a thief to solve all their problems?
That’s just stupidly unbalanced.

Anyway, the point of playing thief is to provide fast back-capping of capture points, spike damage when required, good mobility and guaranteed stomps with stealth/blind field.
Countering all other glass builds is just unnecessary and unbalanced.

No where in his post did he say “thieves destroy all glass builds.” He said, “Thieves are supposed to counter glass builds , that’s why they exist. The role of the thief is to get rid of opposite team’s glass cannon.”

The role of a thief is to try and give his party/allies the upper hand by dispatching of the enemy’s strongest damage dealers. Just because the thief is good at this, does not mean they cannot be stopped/killed. Keep in mind the thief is just as squishy as other glass cannons while performing this role, and the thief is primary single target focus. Thief doesn’t counter all other glass builds. If it did, then nobody would ever play glass on other classes. Clearly there’s a significant portion of the GW2 population that doesn’t believe what you’re saying to be written in stone. Those players are also, oddly enough, probably better at this game than you.

Wintel.4873:

a t s e.9614:

Thieves are supposed to counter glass builds , that’s why they exist. The role of the thief is to get rid of opposite team’s glass cannon. You counter a thief with more sustain builds and conditions.

If thieves become weak vs builds like glass S/D ele then what’s the point of playing thief? To get owned by sustain, condi and tank builds? They have to be strong somewhere and it turns out that its against glass builds.

Wow, so someone actually admitted that thieves easily destroy all glass builds. So you’re saying that no glass build other than thief has a place in this game, because why take a glass ele or glass mesmer when a team can just take a thief to solve all their problems?
That’s just stupidly unbalanced.

Anyway, the point of playing thief is to provide fast back-capping of capture points, spike damage when required, good mobility and guaranteed stomps with stealth/blind field.
Countering all other glass builds is just unnecessary and unbalanced.

a t s e.9614:

You can also QQ about guardians that has insane support. No other class can provide that much support to their team.

Bunker guardian= end of all other bunker builds

I take it you haven’t seen a bunker warrior or bunker engi.

Bunker warrior is beyond useless and engineers are not true bunkers , they can’t deal with conditions . Not a single class can compete with the team support of a guardian , let’s nerf them too !

And BTW when I say glass, I mean pure glass 6/6/x with nothing but damage modifiers in your build.

If you spec somewhat a balanced build it counters thieves easely .

a t s e.9614:

Thieves are supposed to counter glass builds , that’s why they exist. The role of the thief is to get rid of opposite team’s glass cannon. You counter a thief with more sustain builds and conditions.

A profession whose purpose is to counter build diversity in a game that desires to promote build diversity is so obviously contradictory (=bad) design, that I highly doubt that was anet’s intention, and I can’t see how people can defend this idea.

“But it was designed for this!” does not means it’s automatically a good thing. Likewise, just because stealth was designed with vague, unreliable, lucky-driven counterplay in mind, it does not means it’ a good thing either.

I have been getting a back to sanity reality check the past few weeks with a couple of other games. Can’t move as fast while in stealth and not being able to stealth in the middle of combat are just a couple of familiar stealth features I am used to. What a concept. That is how it has been with every other game I have played before GW2 and after.

DiogoSilva.7089:

a t s e.9614:

Thieves are supposed to counter glass builds , that’s why they exist. The role of the thief is to get rid of opposite team’s glass cannon. You counter a thief with more sustain builds and conditions.

A profession whose purpose is to counter build diversity in a game that desires to promote build diversity is so obviously contradictory (=bad) design, that I highly doubt that was anet’s intention, and I can’t see how people can defend this idea.

“But it was designed for this!” does not means it’s automatically a good thing. Likewise, just because stealth was designed with vague, unreliable, lucky-driven counterplay in mind, it does not means it’ a good thing either.

Alternatively, you could view the existence of a class that excels at killing other glass cannons as adding to the diversity between classes in the game. Up to you how you choose to look at it. Within the thief class itself, there are a variety of builds (build diversity) that allows thief to compete in its best class role (lending itself to better distinction, and thus class diversity).

The problem with stealth is that it impacts the other player directly, not just the other player’s character. This is the equivalent of having blindness completely black out the player’s monitor, how would you feel about that? Maybe poison should actually make the player sick? Stealth doesn’t just effect the game, it effect’s the players playing against it.

A solution would be to have stealth ‘visible’ to enemy the same as it is to allies, that way stealth’s effects would be restricted mainly to the “character’s” abilities and not the players.

Funny, for me just AE always worked fine. Especially against Shadow Refuge, since you don’t even have to guess where the Thief might be.

I would also like to say that stealth counters stealth. Sometimes battles are won and lost based on who drops out of stealth first.

Sandpit.3467:

The problem with stealth is that it impacts the other player directly, not just the other player’s character. This is the equivalent of having blindness completely black out the player’s monitor, how would you feel about that? Maybe poison should actually make the player sick? Stealth doesn’t just effect the game, it effect’s the players playing against it.

A solution would be to have stealth ‘visible’ to enemy the same as it is to allies, that way stealth’s effects would be restricted mainly to the “character’s” abilities and not the players.

Ummm… when a thief enters stealth, he does not literally blind you in real life… what. If they were to nerf stealth and make you able to see a stealthed enemy as you would an ally, then be prepared to see some pretty awesome buffs coming to thieves and potentially mesmers to compensate.

To be honest, your entire little analogy you created in this argument was just so completely ridiculous that I don’t even know how to respond to you lol.

AoE isnt a counter to stealth. If you believe that, you miss what stealth is and give it more credit then what it truely is.
Stealth makes you invisible. Thats it, pretty simple mechanic really.

There are only 2 things that break stealth, Toxic Unveiling Arrow and Stealth Disruptor Trap. There is nothing that lets you see through stealth.
And since either of those abilities that reveal Stealthed targets is on siege, its not a viable counter. There are no player-based counters to Stealth at all.

Someone could stealth and stand next to you and there is nothing YOU can do to either break it, or see them.
Sic ’em doesnt count either, it prevents the use of stealth… so does a stun, or a daze, or a launch… But it doesnt counter-stealth once its actually in play.

This game should have player based counters, abilities that give the player a temporary Truesight, aswell as player abilities that can break Stealth on a target.

Oh, you’re fighting 1-v-1?
Because I meant “AE counters stealth”. Being downed drops a Thief out of stealth perfectly fine, and 5+ players spamming AEs does that to a Thief.

I’d make launch, fear, knockdown, daze/stun cause revealed. Everything needs a hard counter. Stealth have so few of them.

Stealth becomes extremely powerful against players when said players rely on their skills more than their skill.

Lévis.5489:

I’d make launch, fear, knockdown, daze/stun cause revealed. Everything needs a hard counter. Stealth have so few of them.

Interesting, I’ve always perceived hard counters as being exactly what the smallscale PvP community would not want (because it leads to rock-paper-scissors, and smallscale PvPers tend to want equal-footing-balance).

Carighan.6758:

Oh, you’re fighting 1-v-1?
Because I meant “AE counters stealth”. Being downed drops a Thief out of stealth perfectly fine, and 5+ players spamming AEs does that to a Thief.

Nope, even getting downed doesnt cause a stealthed target to become revealed.

Terrahero.9358:

Nope, even getting downed doesnt cause a stealthed target to become revealed.

Ah, badly worded. I meant it kills any benefit they had from stealth. They appear a second or two later and are ready to be killed off. Well in the case of Thieves I might have to blink with my finisher :P

godz raiden.2631:

Alternatively, you could view the existence of a class that excels at killing other glass cannons as adding to the diversity between classes in the game. Up to you how you choose to look at it.

I could, if reality didn’t prove otherwise.

If some thief builds were especially designed to counter glass cannons, without offering much more to the game, and if other glass cannons could offer a lot to the game that the thief could not, then it could be worth the risk bringing another glass cannon against a team with a thief, and at the same time, bringing an anti-glass cannon thief build could also be a risk by itself, because it would not offer much more while the opponent would.

But in the current situation, a thief is not only a great anti-glass cannon class, but also a great glass cannon class at many things it does. It’s as good as the competition, while being able to eat the competition at the same time.

At its current situation, it contributes to less build diversity.

Lévis.5489:

I’d make launch, fear, knockdown, daze/stun cause revealed. Everything needs a hard counter. Stealth have so few of them.

Conditions, chain cc with SS on cooldown, rapid attacks and AoE. Lock In skills like SR (self) static field, ring of warding, traps (marks, traps). Stealth has counter’s, they just aren’t labeled “reveal”.

DiogoSilva.7089:

godz raiden.2631:

Alternatively, you could view the existence of a class that excels at killing other glass cannons as adding to the diversity between classes in the game. Up to you how you choose to look at it.

I could, if reality didn’t prove otherwise.

If some thief builds were especially designed to counter glass cannons, without offering much more to the game, and if other glass cannons could offer a lot to the game that the thief could not, then it could be worth the risk bringing another glass cannon against a team with a thief, and at the same time, bringing an anti-glass cannon thief build could also be a risk by itself, because it would not offer much more while the opponent would.

But in the current situation, a thief is not only a great anti-glass cannon class, but also a great glass cannon class at many things it does. It’s as good as the competition, while being able to eat the competition at the same time.

At its current situation, it contributes to less build diversity.

People still use Power necro and S/D ele in high level tournaments . The only glass builds that are not viable is power ranger/engi . Those classes deal way less direct damage and are kinda useless if not playing condi.

The fact that thieves are hard countered by sustain builds is also poor balance. A soldier warrior can crit a glass thief for 10k> thanks to might stacking , high base damage, sigil of intelligence.

Not many good arguments as to Stealth having counters in this thread I see.. Tho so many of you are so adamant that it does.

Stealth – Target Peeling, Untargetable, Unseeable by Foe,
Hard Counter to: LoS Dependent anything. Target Dependent Anything.
Softer Counter to: Ground Targeted anything.

Counter By… Time?

No, Stealth as a whole has no soft or hard counter.

The professions that abuse it, themselves have counters. Thieves are often squishy so if you do fight a poorer thief you can sometimes get lucky if you spam AoE cleaves or Spells if your class is lucky enough to have those things and still kill them. A better thief this works much less well on.

Marks, Ground AoE, Traps are counters to Player Movement, not stealth, anyone can set these off and its not their intended use.

Mesmers that use Stealth also have counters… to the Profession itself and its mechanics that it is forced to use. Phantasms, Clones etc.. AoE Damage is much more effective here not because it hits something stealthed, but because it removes the mesmers ability to do damage.

I can still hurt an Invulnerable Target with conditions i placed on it guys, that’s a counter in some sense of the Term, and at least i can see that it’s happening.

You lost target when the thief goes into stealth and does not retarget it when thief reveal, by the time you click back on the thief you dead or almost dead by backstab and heartseeker.

All range weapon is useless against thief. If you fire a range weapon with out a target your projectile just hitting the ground and your feet. There for a full glass range build is not an option for WvW roaming as you always has to carry a melee weapon.

My suggestions:
Why not adept Wildstar’s telegraph system, the aoe is already telegraphed if you see a red circle you know is enemy aoe and dodge away. Make all projectile fire forward if you don’t have a target and show us damage we deal.

That way thief can still stealth all they want, and all weapon are useful even with out a target

Carighan.6758:

Terrahero.9358:

Nope, even getting downed doesnt cause a stealthed target to become revealed.

Ah, badly worded. I meant it kills any benefit they had from stealth. They appear a second or two later and are ready to be killed off. Well in the case of Thieves I might have to blink with my finisher :P

But how is AoE a counter to stealth?

Is AoE more effective against someone in stealth then, lets say, someone who is visible? No, your AoE is less effective against someone in stealth because its much harder to land an ability on someone or something you cannot stealth.

So, if anything, Stealth is a counter to AoE. Not the other way around.

NinjaEd.3946:

Lévis.5489:

I’d make launch, fear, knockdown, daze/stun cause revealed. Everything needs a hard counter. Stealth have so few of them.

Conditions, chain cc with SS on cooldown, rapid attacks and AoE. Lock In skills like SR (self) static field, ring of warding, traps (marks, traps). Stealth has counter’s, they just aren’t labeled “reveal”.

None of those counter Stealth.

Conditions? How? They are no more effective against Stealthed targets then someone who is perfectly visible. Same damage.
Chain CC, again… how? Prevent someone from stealthing? If that counts as a counter then chain-Cc is a counter to everything. Attacking, defending, walking, dodging etcetc.
Area Denial skills dont counter stealth they counter walking. They counter what someone does in stealth, but again, someone doesnt need to be in stealth for these abilities to work just dandy.

What you describe are things you can try and use against someone who stealthed, but they are no more effective then if he was revealed. Infact, often they are less effective because its harder to hit something you cannot see.

soloez.5910:

You lost target when the thief goes into stealth and does not retarget it when thief reveal, by the time you click back on the thief you dead or almost dead by backstab and heartseeker.

All range weapon is useless against thief. If you fire a range weapon with out a target your projectile just hitting the ground and your feet. There for a full glass range build is not an option for WvW roaming as you always has to carry a melee weapon.

My suggestions:
Why not adept Wildstar’s telegraph system, the aoe is already telegraphed if you see a red circle you know is enemy aoe and dodge away. Make all projectile fire forward if you don’t have a target and show us damage we deal.

That way thief can still stealth all they want, and all weapon are useful even with out a target

You do realize you can aim ranged weapons without a target? Hold down right mouse button and press the skill.

And guys, just because there aren’t many HARD counters to stealth doesn’t mean there aren’t ANY counters to it. Don’t come crying to the forums because you died to a thief. Maybe you should learn the soft counters to thief instead of looking for a solid answer. It’s not about what skills to use its about how you PLAY against a thief. You guys are all looking for the wrong thing when it really comes down to simple gameplay mechanics. (AKA turning your body so that you reduce their damage by half)

Besides, I bet most of the people that cry about getting “Omg insta 1 shotted by thief pls nurf” are glass. That’s what thieves are meant to kill.

alchemyst.2165:

soloez.5910:

You lost target when the thief goes into stealth and does not retarget it when thief reveal, by the time you click back on the thief you dead or almost dead by backstab and heartseeker.

All range weapon is useless against thief. If you fire a range weapon with out a target your projectile just hitting the ground and your feet. There for a full glass range build is not an option for WvW roaming as you always has to carry a melee weapon.

My suggestions:
Why not adept Wildstar’s telegraph system, the aoe is already telegraphed if you see a red circle you know is enemy aoe and dodge away. Make all projectile fire forward if you don’t have a target and show us damage we deal.

That way thief can still stealth all they want, and all weapon are useful even with out a target

You do realize you can aim ranged weapons without a target? Hold down right mouse button and press the skill.

And guys, just because there aren’t many HARD counters to stealth doesn’t mean there aren’t ANY counters to it. Don’t come crying to the forums because you died to a thief. Maybe you should learn the soft counters to thief instead of looking for a solid answer. It’s not about what skills to use its about how you PLAY against a thief. You guys are all looking for the wrong thing when it really comes down to simple gameplay mechanics. (AKA turning your body so that you reduce their damage by half)

Besides, I bet most of the people that cry about getting “Omg insta 1 shotted by thief pls nurf” are glass. That’s what thieves are meant to kill.

Turning body is not a soft counter it does not let me auto retarget the thief when unstealth. We need to see the damage done to a stealth target, a better UI.

‘Omg insta 1 shotted by thief pls nurf" are glass. That’s what thieves are meant to kill.’ So much for build diversity, only thief glass is viable option what a great idea.

soloez.5910:

alchemyst.2165:

soloez.5910:

You lost target when the thief goes into stealth and does not retarget it when thief reveal, by the time you click back on the thief you dead or almost dead by backstab and heartseeker.

All range weapon is useless against thief. If you fire a range weapon with out a target your projectile just hitting the ground and your feet. There for a full glass range build is not an option for WvW roaming as you always has to carry a melee weapon.

My suggestions:
Why not adept Wildstar’s telegraph system, the aoe is already telegraphed if you see a red circle you know is enemy aoe and dodge away. Make all projectile fire forward if you don’t have a target and show us damage we deal.

That way thief can still stealth all they want, and all weapon are useful even with out a target

You do realize you can aim ranged weapons without a target? Hold down right mouse button and press the skill.

And guys, just because there aren’t many HARD counters to stealth doesn’t mean there aren’t ANY counters to it. Don’t come crying to the forums because you died to a thief. Maybe you should learn the soft counters to thief instead of looking for a solid answer. It’s not about what skills to use its about how you PLAY against a thief. You guys are all looking for the wrong thing when it really comes down to simple gameplay mechanics. (AKA turning your body so that you reduce their damage by half)

Besides, I bet most of the people that cry about getting “Omg insta 1 shotted by thief pls nurf” are glass. That’s what thieves are meant to kill.

Turning body is not a soft counter it does not let me auto retarget the thief when unstealth. We need to see the damage done to a stealth target, a better UI.

‘Omg insta 1 shotted by thief pls nurf" are glass. That’s what thieves are meant to kill.’ So much for build diversity, only thief glass is viable option what a great idea.

What are you even saying? “Only thief glass is viable option what a great idea” And build diversity for what? WvW? Theres plenty of build diversity in WvW. PvP? Lots there too. If you’re saying you can’t play glass because you’re afraid a thief will kill you, learn to not let a thief get the jump on you. With glass cannons, it’s basically whoever bursts first wins. The reason thieves kill glassies easier than others is because they can get the jump on them. Learn to either get the jump first, or defend against the jump, or play a semi-glass build. Did you know you can become much tankier just by swapping out some precision for another stat like vitality or toughness?

Auto-retargeting isn’t a big deal, if you can’t simply press tab or click again there’s something wrong.

And yes, turning your body is a counter to thief. Constantly turn your body, it makes it harder for a thief to hit your back, and some might not even try to and just wait out the stealth.

The only class that has counter to stealth is Ranger. AoE is not a counter to stealth, it doesn’t do anything more to a stealth target then a visible one. It doesn’t stop a thief from stealthing and it does not reveal. It’s just what you do to maximize you chance to of hitting a stealth target when you don’t really know where they are.

Interrupts can be considered somewhat of a counter as you can stop a thief or mesmer from going into stealth which comes down to luck since some animations aren’t very obvious (some are down right unnoticeable).

In PvP thieves are fun to fight cause in general they don’t just reveal, spam, and run, repeat as needed. So are mesmers for similar reason and you are also fighting in closer quarters so your AoE has a better chance of hitting. Dueling in OS against thieves and Mesmers can also be fun cause you can’t just disengage at your leisure

The problem and reason it is so hated is because of the wide open field of our BLs where thieves and PU mesmers can troll entire groups for extended periods of time. It’s not just the mechanic, it’s the behavior of the people playing them that is toxic. When I am roaming, if I see a Thief, Mesmer, or GS run away warrior, I just turn around a go find something else to kill cause I have limited time to play and getting trolled by any of these is not how I want to spend it.

I guess to best counter is to just not even bother fighting them.

Wintel.4873:

combined with their absurd burst/CC

I stopped reading when I read that thieves have absurd CC.

Julie Yann.5379:

The only class that has counter to stealth is Ranger. AoE is not a counter to stealth, it doesn’t do anything more to a stealth target then a visible one. It doesn’t stop a thief from stealthing and it does not reveal. It’s just what you do to maximize you chance to of hitting a stealth target when you don’t really know where they are.

Interrupts can be considered somewhat of a counter as you can stop a thief or mesmer from going into stealth which comes down to luck since some animations aren’t very obvious (some are down right unnoticeable).

In PvP thieves are fun to fight cause in general they don’t just reveal, spam, and run, repeat as needed. So are mesmers for similar reason and you are also fighting in closer quarters so your AoE has a better chance of hitting. Dueling in OS against thieves and Mesmers can also be fun cause you can’t just disengage at your leisure

The problem and reason it is so hated is because of the wide open field of our BLs where thieves and PU mesmers can troll entire groups for extended periods of time. It’s not just the mechanic, it’s the behavior of the people playing them that is toxic. When I am roaming, if I see a Thief, Mesmer, or GS run away warrior, I just turn around a go find something else to kill cause I have limited time to play and getting trolled by any of these is not how I want to spend it.

I guess to best counter is to just not even bother fighting them.

Eng > thief. Bombs/nades rock thieves. AE does work. Agreed that CC helps as well. WvW isn’t balanced agreed.

Terrahero.9358:

But how is AoE a counter to stealth?

Is AoE more effective against someone in stealth then, lets say, someone who is visible? No, your AoE is less effective against someone in stealth because its much harder to land an ability on someone or something you cannot stealth.

So, if anything, Stealth is a counter to AoE. Not the other way around.

If you define counter by genuinely blocking/ending the stealth, then there’s few counters, but one of them is rather big:

• Ranger Sic’em
• De-stealth traps.
• De-stealth Arrow Cart shot.
• The stealther themselves. When they attack, they de-cloak.

Warrior’s have too much mobility huurr stance hurrr undestroyable banners hurr
I cant kill bunker guardianss hurrrr
PU mesmer whooping my 10 man group hurrr
I cant see stealth theif hurrr
Engi Condi spamm hurrrr bunker turret engi hurrrr
Terrormancer fear me to death hurrr zoomancer hurrr
Spirit ranger is cancer hurrrr
Eles are fine