Guild Wars 2

I want to start by saying that I did make a thread about this skill in the Warrior forum and while it got a bit of attention it feel like the Devs do not frequent the class forums as much as this one so I would like to bring this up again. I have also expanded upon the original idea from the suggestions I received.

Currently, the Longbow is a very popular weapon. Skills like Pin Down and Arcing Arrow are strong skills especially with Hammer. However, the real strength of this weapon comes from Combustive Shot being a reliable way to cleanse conditions via Cleansing Ire. With conditions being so popular and the upcoming nerf to critical damage the trait is and will likely remain a mainstay of most Warrior builds. The problem is, some weapons have no way of reliably landing their burst. Even with CI, Zerker Stance, Dogged March, and Lyssa Runes (which are getting a nerf) you can still be overwhelmed very easily by a smart condi build user (aka not using all your best stuff when Zerker Stance is up). If the Devs want Hambow to be less prevalent, why not offer more option?

Arcing Slice is the best candidate for a remake to fill the role of consistent condi cleanse since it isn’t worth using in its current form. I’ve rambled on too much so here’s my idea:

Arcing Slice: Burst. Send out a blade of air that strikes the target.
Damage: Around the same as an AA
Level 1-3 Adrenaline: 3…5 Vulnerability (10 seconds)
Unblockable
Range: 900 (same as Bladetrail)

Some of these values may have to be changed since I don’t have the means to know how OP/UP something would be. The only really important part of this is the fact that it’s a ranged attack and unblockable. While the attack can still be blinded and dodged it would still make double melee builds have a way to reliably cleanse conditions. I replaced Fury with Vulnerability since that seemed to fit the weapon and Warriors don’t really need more access to fury. If you’re using Berserker’s Power you’re sacrificing that extra damage anyways. I view this as more of a utility burst, it lets you hit them a bit harder with follow-up attacks and synergies with CI while not hitting that hard. I think it would also be a good skill to be a aimed skill (as would Bladetrail) and maybe even pierce although that may be too much.

While I like Longbow (even with the nerfs), everyone gets tired of being tied to one weapon, especially in PvP. I know, A LOT of classes have this problem. However, I main Warrior and it’s the class I understand the best. Please, keep the whole “War is already good they don’t deserve anything else” out of this thread and instead be constructive and try to help your own class.

One last reason why I would like to see this happen…I think the guys that make the skill animations would make this look kitten cool.

They should just remove the LB from the warrior all together. They aren’t a ranger, they already have rifle, them holding a LB doesn’t make sense.

I already explained in another thread why this idea is BAD:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Decap-Engi-HamBow-Warrior-S-P-Thief-nerfed

Summary: long range unblockable attacks with very low cooldown = overpowered and easily abused for other things as well. Cleansing ire is already too good for a 20 point trait. No viable warrior build is without it.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I already explained in another thread why this idea is BAD:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Decap-Engi-HamBow-Warrior-S-P-Thief-nerfed

Summary: long range unblockable attacks with very low cooldown = overpowered and easily abused for other things as well. Cleansing ire is already too good for a 20 point trait. No viable warrior build is without it.

Wait, so Warrior isn’t viable w/o CI, but it’s too good for a 20 point trait? Are you saying that Warrior Should have to spend 30 points JUST to be viable? We already spend those 30 points on average but good God if we HAD to spend 30 points that would make the build variety drop down to Guardian levels. I think the only way you can have viable condi removal w/o is Soldier’s runes with 3 shouts and a traited Warhorn.

Cleansing Ire is needed for Warrior to be viable, so why is it too good? Do you just want Warriors to go back to being spammed to death by conditions so that if you see a condi user you should just turn the other way? I don’t understand your logic. Sounds like you just want Warriors to be unable to kill condi builds.

I think it’s a good idea to make GS burst less useless. Why unblockable though if you’re going to make it blind/dodgeable? Being a ranged attack it’s already much much easier to land and proc cleansing ire with, no reason to remove a counter option to it. I think it should require a modest amount of effort to land a powerful burst skill that also cleanses conditions. If your concern is the silly uptime of blocking some classes like engi have then the problem is with them having too much and not us having too few unblockable attacks.

I don’t think it should be unblockable (can get that via signet of might if needed), and I don’t really think that it should apply vulnerability (I would just keep the fury boon on it), but I do think making it a ranged attack would actually make it useful instead of it’s current state of uselessness.

I suppose maybe it could be made to pierce as well so that it wasn’t locked to one target (another flaw with it’s current cleaveless implementation). It’s projectile speed should be about the same as tremor.

The only time I actually use it now is in PvE when I want to clear condis via cleansing ire but not swap off of greatsword.

The unblockable is needed because not only is the damage not very high, the whole point is that it’s supposed to replace Combustive Shot. The only was CS misses is if gets blocked/reflected, you can evade or blind the user but it doesn’t effect the condi removal. This is designed to be the opposite; you can blind or evade it but you can’t block it. I’d even give up the Vulnerability but like I said the damage is supposed to be on the low end, maybe slightly more than an auto attack if even that. I changed the description to be more clear on that.

Even with these changes it would only be used if you were being kited and needed to proc CI badly. Say you’re running Mace/Shield+GS, you’re still going to mostly use Skull Crack. Maybe you’d use it more on other combos like with Axe or Sword but even then those weapons have much stronger bursts.

BurrTheKing.8571:

The unblockable is needed because not only is the damage not very high, the whole point is that it’s supposed to replace Combustive Shot. The only was CS misses is if gets blocked/reflected, you can evade or blind the user but it doesn’t effect the condi removal. This is designed to be the opposite; you can blind or evade it but you can’t block it. I’d even give up the Vulnerability but like I said the damage is supposed to be on the low end, maybe slightly more than an auto attack if even that. I changed the description to be more clear on that.

Even with these changes it would only be used if you were being kited and needed to proc CI badly. Say you’re running Mace/Shield+GS, you’re still going to mostly use Skull Crack. Maybe you’d use it more on other combos like with Axe or Sword but even then those weapons have much stronger bursts.

I feel that’s more of a problem with combustive shot than anything. If they’re just getting free condi removal via cleansing ire without actually having to “land” the ability, then it’s definitely getting more mileage out of a trait than it’s supposed to give. The more logical solution to me would be to change how combustive shot interacts with cleansing ire so it demonstrates behaviour that is consistent with other burst skills. I’m not sure what that would look like, but I don’t feel letting the arcing slice or any other burst skill exhibit the same characteristics is the way to go, unless you’re advocating a change in the way cleansing ire functions as well.

I think you’re probably right in that arcing slice wouldn’t be used a great deal even if it was made into some form of ranged attack, but it would be more useful in certain situations. For instance, you could use it to damage people running away from you, or fire into a crowd (assuming it pierces) to hit multiple targets. It would be the only melee weapon that would have a truly ranged burst attack. Maybe the projectile could also go much fast than something like tremor, so you can finish someone off even if they’ve put distance between you, meaning you don’t necessarily have to chase them down (even though GS already excels at that).

Yamsandjams.3267:

I feel that’s more of a problem with combustive shot than anything. If they’re just getting free condi removal via cleansing ire without actually having to “land” the ability, then it’s definitely getting more mileage out of a trait than it’s supposed to give. The more logical solution to me would be to change how combustive shot interacts with cleansing ire so it demonstrates behaviour that is consistent with other burst skills. I’m not sure what that would look like, but I don’t feel letting the arcing slice or any other burst skill exhibit the same characteristics is the way to go, unless you’re advocating a change in the way cleansing ire functions as well.

I think you’re probably right in that arcing slice wouldn’t be used a great deal even if it was made into some form of ranged attack, but it would be more useful in certain situations. For instance, you could use it to damage people running away from you, or fire into a crowd (assuming it pierces) to hit multiple targets. It would be the only melee weapon that would have a truly ranged burst attack. Maybe the projectile could also go much fast than something like tremor, so you can finish someone off even if they’ve put distance between you, meaning you don’t necessarily have to chase them down (even though GS already excels at that).

I did suggest that exact change to combustive shot in my thread for reasonable warrior changes. Perhaps you’d like to take a look at it?

Jzaku.9765:

Yamsandjams.3267:

I feel that’s more of a problem with combustive shot than anything. If they’re just getting free condi removal via cleansing ire without actually having to “land” the ability, then it’s definitely getting more mileage out of a trait than it’s supposed to give. The more logical solution to me would be to change how combustive shot interacts with cleansing ire so it demonstrates behaviour that is consistent with other burst skills. I’m not sure what that would look like, but I don’t feel letting the arcing slice or any other burst skill exhibit the same characteristics is the way to go, unless you’re advocating a change in the way cleansing ire functions as well.

I think you’re probably right in that arcing slice wouldn’t be used a great deal even if it was made into some form of ranged attack, but it would be more useful in certain situations. For instance, you could use it to damage people running away from you, or fire into a crowd (assuming it pierces) to hit multiple targets. It would be the only melee weapon that would have a truly ranged burst attack. Maybe the projectile could also go much fast than something like tremor, so you can finish someone off even if they’ve put distance between you, meaning you don’t necessarily have to chase them down (even though GS already excels at that).

I did suggest that exact change to combustive shot in my thread for reasonable warrior changes. Perhaps you’d like to take a look at it?

Warrior’s NEED that “free” cleanse if they’re to have any chance at beating a Necro/Engi condi user. It’s not like Warriors are not dedicating a lot to get condi removal, in fact half of most War builds is purely dedicated to stopping it. It just goes to show how insane condis are that even with 4-5 things in your build to mitigate things you can still lose easily even if you time the cleanses well.

Things are probably only going to get worse with the critical damage nerf because condis will start to look more appealing.

DeadlySynz.3471:

They should just remove the LB from the warrior all together. They aren’t a ranger, they already have rifle, them holding a LB doesn’t make sense.

It makes as much sense as ranger holding a greatsword. Let’s not have this discussion.

Harper.4173:

DeadlySynz.3471:

They should just remove the LB from the warrior all together. They aren’t a ranger, they already have rifle, them holding a LB doesn’t make sense.

It makes as much sense as ranger holding a greatsword. Let’s not have this discussion.

I agree 100%. This game has tons of non-traditional uses of weaponry and Warrior using a bow makes a lot more sense than a Necro with an axe or a Ele with a dagger. Thing is I personally love that they did that and it makes things way more unique and we don’t see every caster class running around with a staff or scepter.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Deniara Devious.3948:

I already explained in another thread why this idea is BAD:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Decap-Engi-HamBow-Warrior-S-P-Thief-nerfed

Summary: long range unblockable attacks with very low cooldown = overpowered and easily abused for other things as well. Cleansing ire is already too good for a 20 point trait. No viable warrior build is without it.

Wait, so Warrior isn’t viable w/o CI, but it’s too good for a 20 point trait? Are you saying that Warrior Should have to spend 30 points JUST to be viable? We already spend those 30 points on average but good God if we HAD to spend 30 points that would make the build variety drop down to Guardian levels. I think the only way you can have viable condi removal w/o is Soldier’s runes with 3 shouts and a traited Warhorn.

Cleansing Ire is needed for Warrior to be viable, so why is it too good? Do you just want Warriors to go back to being spammed to death by conditions so that if you see a condi user you should just turn the other way? I don’t understand your logic. Sounds like you just want Warriors to be unable to kill condi builds.

A trait like that is too good when it becomes practically mandatory for the class. Mesmer is like that right now with Deceptive Evasion. There are even people that want Deceptive Evasion to be baked into the basic mechanics of the class. That’s how good Cleansing Ire is for Warrior right now.

Proven.2854:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Deniara Devious.3948:

I already explained in another thread why this idea is BAD:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Decap-Engi-HamBow-Warrior-S-P-Thief-nerfed

Summary: long range unblockable attacks with very low cooldown = overpowered and easily abused for other things as well. Cleansing ire is already too good for a 20 point trait. No viable warrior build is without it.

Wait, so Warrior isn’t viable w/o CI, but it’s too good for a 20 point trait? Are you saying that Warrior Should have to spend 30 points JUST to be viable? We already spend those 30 points on average but good God if we HAD to spend 30 points that would make the build variety drop down to Guardian levels. I think the only way you can have viable condi removal w/o is Soldier’s runes with 3 shouts and a traited Warhorn.

Cleansing Ire is needed for Warrior to be viable, so why is it too good? Do you just want Warriors to go back to being spammed to death by conditions so that if you see a condi user you should just turn the other way? I don’t understand your logic. Sounds like you just want Warriors to be unable to kill condi builds.

A trait like that is too good when it becomes practically mandatory for the class. Mesmer is like that right now with Deceptive Evasion. There are even people that want Deceptive Evasion to be baked into the basic mechanics of the class. That’s how good Cleansing Ire is for Warrior right now.

This still doesn’t make any sense, what are you saying you want to happen to CI? Try running a build w/o it, you’ll get demolished by conditions outside of Soldier runes with 3 shouts and traited Warhorn, which is more of a support build. While is sucks to be almost forced into this trait it wouldn’t make sense to move or nerf it if it means making Warrior go back to “oh look a condi user, I’m dead.”

Are you saying that by default that Warriors should just have cleanse on Burst like some are saying Mesmer should just have Deceptive Evasion? I don’t get what you’re trying to say.

An easy way to fix this would be to make Mending viable. If it was a 15 second heal you could run it with 20 in Strength for Restorative Strength and get up to 7 condis cleansed on heal. That would at least allow for more build variety in terms of traits.

I’m trying to explain what is meant when a trait is “too good”. I don’t have a solution for it, but you can admit yourself that the trait is seen as mandatory for a lot of Warrior builds. Any trait that can boost a class’ power level by that much should normally be designed as a Grandmaster trait. Something should be done to rectify this, but until it’s done you can’t move the trait from Master level. You also shouldn’t just provide easier access to it, as it just introduces another avenue of power creep. Your suggestion for the Greatsword just adds another level of synergy that makes the trait even more mandatory for builds.

The best thing I can think of doing is providing alternate options that are on the same strength level as Cleansing Ire or Deceptive Evasion but are either not very synergistic with those traits or are added in ways that make them not available to current meta builds. Some of the Grandmaster traits being introduced do give options that aren’t immediately useful for these traits or ask you to change up your trait spread and find a new build still using CI or DE if you want to try the new trait (and closing off the synergy of CI or DE with some other trait).

Also, you know Hammer’s Earthshaker has 600 range and 240 radius? That’s 840 range for a burst skill on a melee weapon. Add Signet of Strength, one of the new Grandmasters, or the improved Sigil of Intelligence and I think that’s fine enough. If you want something that’s 900+ range and a projectile rather than a leap, then use a weapon that fires projectiles. Trade offs.

I would say that as I said before is that the best option is just to make Warriors not FORCED to use it. Even WITH the trait condi classes can overwhelm you with the pure amount of spam they have access to and the only way to change that would be to make them less spamable or in the case of Necro not able to put every condi in the game on you in a split second. If condis required a bit more finesse to use then we could talk about nerfing CI but until then it needs to remain where it is. ANet realized that having a melee class that is hyper-vulnerable to movement impairments was silly and so they changed the design philosophy.

Signet of Strength can still be blinded and Earthshaker is affected by cripple/Chill and is easily avoided unless comboed with something. And the only projectile weapons Warrior has is Bow (the whole point of this suggestion is to not be so reliant on it), and Rifle which is still a really poor weapon, especially in PvP. I doubt I’m going to be able to trust Kill Shot to reliably hit someone who is constantly kiting me due to soft CC. The 900 range I suggested is also shorter than your average LB or rifle attack. It will hardly be used at all except for a cleanse and maybe to hit a retreating target that is low on health. It’ll open up all kinds of double melee set option that right now are currently not worth running, especially in PvP.

tbh i think even 200 range is good.
unblockable is not necessary tho.
also i prefer fury.
oh and not as a projectile please.

Simon.3794:

tbh i think even 200 range is good.
unblockable is not necessary tho.
also i prefer fury.
oh and not as a projectile please.

200 is barely longer than melee distance…

In fact Arcing Slice currently has a range of 150…so it would extend like 2 ft. The whole point is so you have a way to get rid of movement impairing conditions so you can run double melee and not be so tied to Longbow, which is probably Warrior’s best weapon I would say. It would mostly help builds like Mace/Shield + GS builds because while it is pretty strong but also really easy to kite if you have a ton of soft CCs.

remove unblockable then it is a good replacement for arcing slice.

Arcing Slice: Burst. Slice the air in front with great speed causing a massive shockwave, slashing foes along the path with the compressed air shockwave.
Damage: Around the same as an Arcing Arrow
Level 1 Adrenaline: 5 Vulnerability (10 seconds)
Level 2 Adrenaline: 10 Vulnerability (10 seconds)
Level 3 Adrenaline: 15 Vulnerability (10 seconds)
Range: 450 (same range as Whirlwind Attack)

a medium ranged aoe shockwave attack for the greatsword. fabulous.
can hit up to 5 targets.

BurrTheKing.8571:

We already spend those 30 points on average but good God if we HAD to spend 30 points that would make the build variety drop down to Guardian levels.

This made me smile. I mean with Guardians being in such a good spot right now, would it really hurt the warriors all that much

Talyn.3295:

BurrTheKing.8571:

We already spend those 30 points on average but good God if we HAD to spend 30 points that would make the build variety drop down to Guardian levels.

This made me smile. I mean with Guardians being in such a good spot right now, would it really hurt the warriors all that much

I know Guards are in that situation, but I think you would agree that it sucks and shouldn’t happen to ANY class.

Why are people so afraid of Unblockable? The attack is not going to hit that hard even on full glass. It’s JUST there to insure that it has one less thing to keep the cleanse from actually happening. If Unblockable was that strong more Warriors would use Signet of Strength.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Talyn.3295:

BurrTheKing.8571:

We already spend those 30 points on average but good God if we HAD to spend 30 points that would make the build variety drop down to Guardian levels.

This made me smile. I mean with Guardians being in such a good spot right now, would it really hurt the warriors all that much

I know Guards are in that situation, but I think you would agree that it sucks and shouldn’t happen to ANY class.

Why are people so afraid of Unblockable? The attack is not going to hit that hard even on full glass. It’s JUST there to insure that it has one less thing to keep the cleanse from actually happening. If Unblockable was that strong more Warriors would use Signet of Strength.

well, if you want the new arcing slice burst to activate cleansing ire easily, make it a shockwave attack like guardian staff 1, hit up to 5 targets in front a 600 range radius.

not all 5 targets will have block unless a guardian nearby gave aegis to everyone.