Guild Wars 2

D/D isn’t game-breakingly OP by any stretch. Its not nearly as strong as hambow was at its apex, and is at least a good amount harder to play. If you want builds that have an advantage in 1v1 (there isn’t really a hard-counter, which you will see happens for every home-point spec in the game)

1. Celestial engineer has probably a 60:40 (adv. engie) fight with celes. ele.
2. Condi necro probably has an advantage, but it really comes down to player skill.
3. Any well-played class. I am sure that, even against the best ele, Caed (or Sizer, or any well-known top player) gets above 50% in his 1v1’s because he learns that players habits and exploits those. Its not always a problem with the class in the matchup, its often the player.

Only minor tweaks are needed to bring the spec in line:
1. Nerf battle sigil (a culprit common to most celes builds). I would suggest 3 stacks for 10s or 2s for 20.
2. Nerf doom sigil. Without the poison from doom sigil, d/d celes ele has a MUCH harder time against sustain specs. Even 3s would still be very strong.
3. Reduce celestial stats by a small amount (just a few percent).
4. (maybe) Remove the blast from water 3 again.

Best of all, if you just do 1-3, you aren’t hurting the viability of ANY other ele builds, while still bringing celes ele in-line with other builds.

BlackBeard.2873:

1. Nerf battle sigil
2. Nerf doom sigil.

Right, let’s nerf everyone instead of nerf d/d ele directly.

Rednik.3809:

BlackBeard.2873:

1. Nerf battle sigil
2. Nerf doom sigil.

Right, let’s nerf everyone instead of nerf d/d ele directly.

All the celestial specs that are a problem (see: celes engie, hambow, axebow, etc) use these 2. Want to do some math:

With boon duration runes you get 45% might duration. This makes battle sigil give you 3 stacks for 29s each. With a little more boon duration, we’ll call it 30s. With proper swapping, that is 9 stacks of might, or 315 power AND condi damage. This is better than bloodlust and corruption sigil COMBINED. It is probably the strongest sigil in-game.

Doom sigil likewise gives more poison than most weapon-skill sources of poison give. It gives so much that builds that would otherwise not have access have access to 60% uptime of poison. It takes the build decision to make sacrifices for such a powerful condition, and makes them moot b/c trololol just slap on a sigil and you’re covered.

Finally, IF everyone used these 2 sigils, but the best spec used them most effectively (as celes ele arguably does), nerfing them is a net buff for the other specs.

1. Elitist, no one takes you seriously anymore.
2. D/D ele against boon strippers disappear. If you are having trouble against a D/D ele then learn to take away his/her boons. It will turn into a completely different fight at that point.
3. Remember that Anet wants certain classes to be good at countering certain other classes and NOT all classes being good against all other classes.
4. Remember that not all players play on the same level. Even really good players can go up against someone and find out that there are people that still play on a higher level than they do. Also, remember that a persons play style could be different from another persons play style so even if both play the same profession and build they could play them in drastically different ways. If you go up against a D/D ele and you beat him extremely easily, it doesn’t mean that player is bad. That D/D ele may just not have a lot of experience fighting warriors(or whatever class you happen to be on). That person may only ever get to fight against Rangers or Engis or other Eles.

I love the challenge of fighting a good D/D with my Guard, even if the odds are against me.

The only game breaking thing in this game is Stealth, I feel Thieves should all be removed from the game

Vikkela.7261:

I love the challenge of fighting a good D/D with my Guard, even if the odds are against me.

The only game breaking thing in this game is Stealth, I feel Thieves should all be removed from the game

Agreed, I just largely ignore both thieves and mesmers now because there isn’t even a fight to be fought. It’s just sitting around twiddling thumbs waiting for them to come out of stealth. It’s far more rewarding to just ignore and move on.

Scryeless.1924:

If you are having trouble against a D/D ele then learn to take away his/her boons.

Oh wait, I’m missed something and boon removal become core class mechanic for everyone? Or everyone must scrap their weapon sigils and carry boon removal sigils just in case they meet an ele?

Rednik.3809:

Scryeless.1924:

If you are having trouble against a D/D ele then learn to take away his/her boons.

Oh wait, I’m missed something and boon removal become core class mechanic for everyone? Or everyone must scrap their weapon sigils and carry boon removal sigils just in case they meet an ele?

If you don’t have any or don’t want to spec for it let a squad member have it,one spec can’t do everything, stop thinking duel. They die to proper conditions as well only melee focus zerkers with poor boon removal struggles.

I probably shouldve posted this in the PvP forum, its obvious this forum is full of WvWers and Hotjoin Heros. “Stealth is broken”. LOL. “Mesmer counters ele”. LOL. I play Mesmer occasionally and Id like to think in good at it, but vs the best eles I have less than 50% chance to win. In the lower tier where terrible eles cant dodge mirror blade maybe it counters ele, but if the game was balanced around that then thieves would be even more nerfed, warrior woukd be more nerfed, etc. The game cant be balanced around terribads. Also to the guy above that said that “this elititst guy can say he can 1v1 eles but complains anyway”. That’s because I can beat an ele in an open field 1v1 over a period of 3-4+ minutes. In an actual game its impossible for me to beat one on point unless they’re AFK. I can kill a bunker guard faster. Obviously there’s a problem.

@Blackbear Caed and Sizer dont beat Eles 50% of the time. At this point you have no idea what you’re talking about. At top tier if an ele can kite well enough they have a 50% chance to 1v1 a necro.

So “d\d ele is not impossible to kill, you just need to spec exclusively for fighting him! It’s not op at all!”

There is no such spec lol^

I predicted this. Goes the same way everytime.

Step 1: Someone complains about something being OP without really backing it up except with anecdotes and calls for poorly thought out, class-wide(sometimes affecting all classes too when they suggests changes to amulets/sigils/runes) nerfs that would not affect just the spec in question.

Step 2: People offer counters to said “OP” thing

Step 3: Original person either ignores the counters, insults you personally, or says you can’t possibly be skilled enough to know what you’re talking about. Sometimes all at once.

Step 4: Start from Step 2 and repeat until someone gets tired and stops.

Elitist.8701:

I probably shouldve posted this in the PvP forum, its obvious this forum is full of WvWers and Hotjoin Heros. “Stealth is broken”. LOL. “Mesmer counters ele”. LOL. I play Mesmer occasionally and Id like to think in good at it, but vs the best eles I have less than 50% chance to win. In the lower tier where terrible eles cant dodge mirror blade maybe it counters ele, but if the game was balanced around that then thieves would be even more nerfed, warrior woukd be more nerfed, etc. The game cant be balanced around terribads. Also to the guy above that said that “this elititst guy can say he can 1v1 eles but complains anyway”. That’s because I can beat an ele in an open field 1v1 over a period of 3-4+ minutes. In an actual game its impossible for me to beat one on point unless they’re AFK. I can kill a bunker guard faster. Obviously there’s a problem.

@Blackbear Caed and Sizer dont beat Eles 50% of the time. At this point you have no idea what you’re talking about. At top tier if an ele can kite well enough they have a 50% chance to 1v1 a necro.

Psst, here’s one of your post from not too long ago:

Elitist.8701:

DD ele skillfloor is incredibly low and the meta spec as it is is the most overpowered cheesiest build in the PvP meta. The skillcap is also comparitively low as I can beat all “pro” elementalists 50% of the time and I barely play ele. If you really thought LB ranger was cheesey, I would advise against playing DD ele. Go play engi, its not quite as faceroll and is actually balanced while still being complex and fun to play. The meta for engineer is 60044 with rifle and hoelbrak runes. You can probably find a more in depth build if you go on the engi forums.

inb4 ele is hard and not cheesey

Maybe you should keep track of the bullkitten you’re saying… if a supposedly master ele isn’t able to beat ele… L2P man L2P

On another note here’s another post I found that couldn’t explain better my view on current ele Meta:

Necrotize.2974:

If you want a TL: DR, it’s at the bottom.

So this is just a crazy theory I’m working on about why people are quite recently claiming ele to be god tier or whatever in Spvp. I feel most people in general just don’t know enough about the class to really fight them well, and because of this assume they are OP. At this point, different people will do different things, some will roll an ele because they want to be that “OP” class they just got destroyed by, others will carry on, maybe try ele to see what it is all about. But those people that rolled the class just because they wanted to be the top dog probably will never truly understand the class enough to play it well and definitely not enough to get better as a player to fight them.

I say this because it seems no matter what build I run, people just have such trouble dealing with elementalists. They either try to burst apply conditions before I enter water, or try to burst me down just as I switched into earth, heck, some just keep firing away after I’ve popped a Magnetic Aura or Magnetic Wave and proceed to kill themselves. Obviously better players won’t be fooled so easily, but at the same time I’m finding incredibly gimicky one trick pony builds to be quite effective. Of course, the people who do understand the class rarely have too much trouble with me.

I’m by no means a great ele, maybe average if we’re being generous. Thieves that use the stolen skill as soon as I leave water and interrupt as soon as they see ether renewal, they kill me easily. Necros that know to wait until I cycle through my blast finishers to corrupt boons and chill, they can usually shut me down fast. Zerkers who burst as soon as I leave water or earth have a much better chance than those who just use their burst because it’s off cooldown.

Only reason I’m bringing this up is because of late I’ve been using a rather one trick pony build using S/F where really my only dps is burns and bleeds. Nothing but signets and I never leave earth( Courtesy to Diva for really bringing the build into creation and coming up with the idea) and yet people still struggle desperately sometimes. Obsidian flesh tricks way more people than it should and the fact that no one bothers to cleanse 15 stacks of bleed on themselves but use a cleanse on a single burn is staggering. This build uses neither celestial or any form of might stacking, with the only might coming from Fire Aura procs.

long ago DD eles were nerfed and no one played it for a veeeeeeery long time

Bacon.4918:

Wyrden.4713:

mesmer counters it actually.. and dd cele eles r easy matchup for mesmer in my opinion

Mesmer… Are you serious? Only thing that has a good chance is a necromancer with corrupt boon and even then it is about 50/50. Also, a celestial rifle engineer has a chance of winning, but only if they outplay the elementalist really.

The real problem is that elementalist is not only amazing 1v1, it is arguably just as good as a guardian in team fights. It just does everything at the highest level.

The ele is only “really” contered by professions able to stop it moving in an effective manner (warrior, ranger), apply constant poison (Engineer, necromancer, ranger, thief) or pressure it from range (LB ranger, GS mesmer).

Other professions will struggle.
While ranger can shut it down, it cannot easily overpower the ele.
Axe Dagger, Sword Torch rangers with celestial or rabid amulet and jungle spider + wolf applies A LOT of on point evasion and condition pressure. It can maintain poison and immobilize alongside crippled and chill.
condimancers with corrupt boon also hurts the ele, a lot.
Turret engineers with grenade kit and or boon ripping mines makes for little fun to fight for an ele. Ive seen these fights go both ways, so either ele ends up like a ball bouncing all over and dieing to condies, or engi gets rekt.

Elitist.8701:

Caed and Sizer dont beat Eles 50% of the time. At this point you have no idea what you’re talking about. At top tier if an ele can kite well enough they have a 50% chance to 1v1 a necro.

Prove it. I play them occasionally and keep up with them a fair bit. I feel it is being polite to simply say you exaggerating. You either honestly are not aware of the true stats I. This case, or I feel you may be being intentionally disingenuous.

Elitist.8701:

@Blackbear Caed and Sizer dont beat Eles 50% of the time. At this point you have no idea what you’re talking about. At top tier if an ele can kite well enough they have a 50% chance to 1v1 a necro.

Bunker Eles have always cheesed out Thieves (especially tourney Thieves which is what you’re describing) and the image of Necros is distorted by the fact that most people have zero clue how to play Necro nor how to manage their own or enemy cooldowns.

http://www.twitch.tv/demonold/c/4988399

This is a pretty accurate picture of what’ll happen to an Ele that engages a solo Nec assuming the Nec has a working brain.

Rednik.3809:

So “d\d ele is not impossible to kill, you just need to spec exclusively for fighting him! It’s not op at all!”

No, only people with l2p issues need to do that lol

This is like complaining when you needs to bring a huge amount of condition cleaning everywhere because SOME classes spam conditions all the time

shatter mesmers have 1200+ range and boon clear. Not every 1v1 should be a cage match vs a 900 range enemy. It is kinda dumb to roll around with them when you have a range advantage.. unless i am missing something thier only real dangerous dps is fire. other then that you can have some freedom to apply a plan.

shimmerlessEU.6841:

Elitist.8701:

@Blackbear Caed and Sizer dont beat Eles 50% of the time. At this point you have no idea what you’re talking about. At top tier if an ele can kite well enough they have a 50% chance to 1v1 a necro.

Bunker Eles have always cheesed out Thieves (especially tourney Thieves which is what you’re describing) and the image of Necros is distorted by the fact that most people have zero clue how to play Necro nor how to manage their own or enemy cooldowns.

http://www.twitch.tv/demonold/c/4988399

This is a pretty accurate picture of what’ll happen to an Ele that engages a solo Nec assuming the Nec has a working brain.

Seeing as that video completely refutes the OP’s claim that nothing beats D/D in competitive play and that it is god tier, my guess is that they’ll claim that the ele is trash and didn’t play properly because they actually lost to someone. There really doesn’t seem to be any convincing him. Show video of someone killing a D/D ele, that ele must have sucked. Show ele beating literally anyone, obviously the only conclusion is that the ele is god tier and unbeatable.

But this is just me making assumptions and predicting the future with my crystal ball.

Vikkela.7261:

This is like complaining when you needs to bring a huge amount of condition cleaning everywhere because SOME classes spam conditions all the time

Condi ranger, condi necro, condi war, condi engi, condi mesmer, sometimes condi thief and burn guardian. Enough to take condi cleansing?
And boon removal is necessary to fight against… or, right. D/d celestial ele.

Like I said you guys don’t know anything. And at the people making personal attacks on me saying im bad, come 1v1 me in game ill show you how “bad” I am.

teef is actually a good thief imo. not the best, but pretty good haha

and I agree.

at least from a ranger point of view, good d/d cele eles are near impossible to beat.

you have a chance with zerker if u catch them off guard, but if u don’t… gg

condi regen ranger has a chance, but they usually end in stalemates if both the ranger and ele know what they’re doing.

Elitist.8701:

Like I said you guys don’t know anything. And at the people making personal attacks on me saying im bad, come 1v1 me in game ill show you how “bad” I am.

You have already shown that by creating this thread lol

Nex would be disappointed in you Teef. I think we both know the real culprit here is not the profession itself but rather might stacking and celestial amulets. Because the standard meta ele is meant to be a bunker ele. What’s the purpose of being a bunker? To tank. So that role is successfully filled. But the fact that the “bunker” is able to kill as well is not due to the traits or the profession mechanics…Therefore we need to look at it in a more logical way…What is granting the BUNKER spec a means to kill? Oh right…Stat distribution from celestial amulet AND might stacks. What does might stacks do? Oh right! They give you power AND condi damage! When coupled with strength runes and combo fields, what does it do? OH RIGHT! It gives you insane amounts of might! My god! It makes sense now! But no, nerf ele for being a bunker like they were supposed to be if they spec standard 0/0/2/6/6. sarcasm suggestion btw.

i don’t see how getting killed by one of the best 1v1 builds in a 1v1 proves anything…
the moment corrupt fear chain existed, it already beats most of the builds 1v1, even beat hambow so hard if played properly.
yet you still QQed, and hambow got nerfed.
same thing.

but here, imo dd ele is op, cuz it’s might stack ability and sigil of doom

Just gonna remind people that Ele was not in a great place(try terrible place) before Celestial/Might changes, so sweeping rollbacks and nerfs really will just cripple the classes that relied on them to compete. But the problem is that a lot of the people complaining about how everything should be nerfed, usually don’t play the class they’re attacking and definitely don’t play it for the right reasons if they do at all. Need to consider the other builds and classes that could be affected by such broad changes.

And @Elitist, Skill ingame does not make your points more valid. If you were skilled in the class you’re attacking, it might hold some weight, but still not enough to make your opinion automatically right. I mean, book critics aren’t all world renowned authors…

The amount of hyperbole in this thread is hilarious. Is d/d celestial ele slightly over-turned – YES. Is it “game-breakingly OP” – NO.

According to the OP, they would slash and burn everything that makes ele work so that is trash-tier unplayable like it was FOR OVER A YEAR prior to the patch that changed celestial, runes, and sigils.

What most people don’t see is that celestial d/d ele is only slightly stronger than a lot of tanky dps specs (many soldier’s HS warriors, celes engie, condie engie, spirit ranger, etc), and only needs a couple of small adjustments to be brought in line with this.

Also, if you paid attention to the WTS prior to it being cancelled, no d/d ele could 1v1 Kaypud’s condie warrior build. There is your hard counter (or perhaps it was a playstyle thing, but your position seems to be that matchups are about the class not the player).

IMO the level of low risk stuff in this game needs to not be so viable. Celestial Warrior, Ele, Engie, The abundance of condi cleave builds as well as, PU mesmers, BM and Spirit rangers, mediation guardians, and more.

I don’t mind that they exist, but the low skill floor makes the high skill cap of other risk builds negligible or redundant.

Not to say everything I mentioned is meta everything in this game has had it’s time at one point or another. As well I feel balance is the best it’s been in a long time… However low risk shouldn’t be allowed to reign so hard or long in general.

What’s the point of being glass if someone can just sit on a point and out heal your damage, and do a ton of damage to you if you decide to go onto the point without back up? Understandably it’s not designed around 1v1 but you should have an equal chance at contesting the point at the very least.

TBH I think ele is actually the most fair when it comes to this which is a shame to call for celestial changes but if you are going to defend be defensive you don’t get to melt glass while they struggle to break you. If you are going to be offensive you shouldn’t get to dance around on point.

Please nerf. Thank you.
From,
-a thief player

The problem is they have a very high defense and a decent offensive output (with very easy to obtain might stacks). Not to mention many immunities and decent CC. They are imbalanced with what other classes can do. They have very little counterplay and just having one in an even numbered fight pretty much assures a victory. They have very strong defense and heal at 700+ HPS, which means very few builds can harm them 1v1 at all.

So they have 3 options 1) nerf might stacking 2) nerf Celestial 3) buff boon stripping and/or other counterplay 4) nerf the ele in general.

I would tend towards #4 for Ele and Engi as they seem to be the ones that are causing problems with the Celestial Gear + Might Stacking. The other classes that use it are not all that OP. But I would be happy with any move to make them more balanced with other classes.

Is it the celestial armor or the strength runes?

Ele’s showed up in the meta overnight when strength runes came in. Cele was simply icing on the cake.

Strength runes seem to be the larger problem.

Relentliss.2170:

The problem is they have a very high defense and a decent offensive output (with very easy to obtain might stacks). They are imbalanced with what other classes can do. They have very little counterplay and just having one in an even numbered fight pretty much assures a victory. They have very strong defense and heal at 700+ HPS, which means very few builds can harm them 1v1 at all.

So they have 3 options 1) nerf might stacking 2) nerf Celestial 3) buff boon stripping and/or other counterplay 4) nerf the ele in general.

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I’ve been hearing that they said they won’t be nerfing elementalists, so my guess is that if they do address this, it’ll be in the form of a might stacking nerf targeted toward the sigils and runes. Especially since elementalists went from completely useless to OP god mode after nothing but major nerfs to their elites, aside from the buffs to runes and sigils in the past year or so.

People cry that this would be an all-around nerf for everyone, but it would really only hurt celestial elementalists and engineers more than anyone else, and if they don’t go overboard, it wouldn’t completely make them useless, but even things out.

It’s not hard to maintain 20+ stacks of might by yourself on a d/d elementalist with strength runes and sigil of battle. You don’t need to trait less defensively, you don’t need to sacrifice defensive utility skills, and you don’t even really have to go out of your way to focus on stacking up. 9 of the stacks just happen from switching attunements, with another one being added when you swap to fire attunement. Before the rune and sigil update, this wasn’t a problem, but this gave tanky elementalists (and engineers) the ability to have 25 stacks of might +5% damage pretty much permanently in a fight. I think it should be renamed to Rune of the Juggernaut because that’s pretty much what it’s being used for.

TL;DR: Celestial D/D elementalists benefited the most from the rune/sigil patch. Not much has changed about them since launch, and it’s likely that not much more will change in the future with the class itself. If people want to see engineers and elementalists balanced, they need to let go of the idea that a sigil/rune balance would be an all-around nerf to everyone and accept that it would benefit everyone in the long run.

Let’s fix celestial amulet so it reduces 2 specific builds, and makes it entirely useless for 6 other professions to use in any sort of way.

One word. Myopic.

There is already a thread. Everything being said has been said to death and it just repeats itself in a new thread. Sometimes even repeats itself with new people in the same thread.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Let’s fix celestial amulet so it reduces 2 specific builds, and makes it entirely useless for 6 other professions to use in any sort of way.

One word. Myopic.

If a minor change to 1 amulet would make it useless to 6 other professions, it’s probably useless to those professions already (hence, why they aren’t in the meta). I don’t think they would nerf it that bad anyways though.

Still, I don’t think celestial itself is the problem. Even though the ferocity change was bundled in with all the changes to runes and sigils, I think the bigger problem is with the might stacking buffs.

Celestial is just the clue that holds the build together. It can be equally rune with cleric (slower DPS time) or berserker (Higher DPS time)

The D/D keeps 6 points in healing and 6 points in attunements and boon duration. With strength runes, sigils of battle and strength + a strong capacity to stack might via weapon based primer and detonation mechanics is all the issues one needs to look.

If you nerf celestial..it is nerfed for everyone. Including those who struggle to work it into a user friendly build. This is myopic.

If you adjust strength runes, they are adjusted for everyone in every game mode. This look reasonable provided the shaves are reasonable enough not overly affect PvE when this is currently a PvP problem.

Nerf sigils of battle/strength. Again this nerfs for everyone. This means Guardian/necro etc builds that can sustain 9-11 stacks of might using any build with weapon swapping and crit hits now have that ability removed because the ele/engi can maintain superior stacks of 17-21. Again this is myopic. It affects all builds now that wish to use this mechanic and do so in a reasonable way.

Reduce how might stacks with engi/ele. This addresses the professions that people have issue with in PvP, but leaves everyone else exactly where they are. This basically will create a death sentence for ele/engi in dungeon runs as currently they used for either team might stacking, or personal might stacking. In other words to address PvP, we need to reduce what value they have in PvE.

Separate PvE skill/traits from PvP. This is perhaps the most sound idea, but also one that a-net has already stated numerous times they want to avoid.

So there we have it. A problem has been created in 2 professions builds that allows them to tank better than a maxed out heavy. Sustain damage better than dedicated meat shield. They have more swiftness than roamers, they have more protection or regenation than any other 2 professions put together and both can quite easily run and maintain 4-6 boons at lengthy up times.

Congratulations, how to unbalance your game and in order to fix it you need to entirely break 2 professions that also unbalances your game.

It is a complicated issue. My advice, Buff Boon corruption, removal, stealing, hate. So far anti boon tactics work well, but they just keep stacking them and in any 1 vs 1 situation of engi/ele vs heavy anti boon tactics is still a grind fest where at any stage due to their high swiftness up time and/or stealth they can disengage.

Kako.1930:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Let’s fix celestial amulet so it reduces 2 specific builds, and makes it entirely useless for 6 other professions to use in any sort of way.

One word. Myopic.

If a minor change to 1 amulet would make it useless to 6 other professions, it’s probably useless to those professions already (hence, why they aren’t in the meta). I don’t think they would nerf it that bad anyways though.

Still, I don’t think celestial itself is the problem. Even though the ferocity change was bundled in with all the changes to runes and sigils, I think the bigger problem is with the might stacking buffs.

Still, the “suggestions” a lot of these people make are incredibly short sighted and usually fueled by ulterior motives. I’ve seen a few such as:

Nerf might to give less condition damage per stack
Nerf might in general so it doesn’t give as much damage
Nerf battle sigils(they usually don’t get more specific than that with how they plan on doing that without hurting every other class that uses battle sigils)
Nerf signet of restoration heal passive(because attacking to get a passive heal is too strong compared to just a plain ole’ Healing Signet :P)

And quite a few more that usually fall under one or more of those topics.

All of which affect more than just DD cele ele. Some affect other ele builds that aren’t meta(hence why they probably never consider them when making these suggestions), some affect the class in general and some are so wide and nearsighted that they’d affect a build from at least every class.

I’ve said it before(can’t remember if it was in this thread) but IMO people are always so quick to asks for nerfs because of personal grudges. If those weren’t a factor, we’d see more threads asking for buffs to the classes they play in order to combat certain builds. But that is too difficult and way too constructive. It is far easier to just say the class they’re losing to is “OP GOD TIER” and then ask for nerfs to every thing that makes the build strong until its no longer a build anymore.

Necrotize.2974:

Kako.1930:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Let’s fix celestial amulet so it reduces 2 specific builds, and makes it entirely useless for 6 other professions to use in any sort of way.

One word. Myopic.

If a minor change to 1 amulet would make it useless to 6 other professions, it’s probably useless to those professions already (hence, why they aren’t in the meta). I don’t think they would nerf it that bad anyways though.

Still, I don’t think celestial itself is the problem. Even though the ferocity change was bundled in with all the changes to runes and sigils, I think the bigger problem is with the might stacking buffs.

Still, the “suggestions” a lot of these people make are incredibly short sighted and usually fueled by ulterior motives. I’ve seen a few such as:

Nerf might to give less condition damage per stack
Nerf might in general so it doesn’t give as much damage
Nerf battle sigils(they usually don’t get more specific than that with how they plan on doing that without hurting every other class that uses battle sigils)
Nerf signet of restoration heal passive(because attacking to get a passive heal is too strong compared to just a plain ole’ Healing Signet :P)

And quite a few more that usually fall under one or more of those topics.

All of which affect more than just DD cele ele. Some affect other ele builds that aren’t meta(hence why they probably never consider them when making these suggestions), some affect the class in general and some are so wide and nearsighted that they’d affect a build from at least every class.

I’ve said it before(can’t remember if it was in this thread) but IMO people are always so quick to asks for nerfs because of personal grudges. If those weren’t a factor, we’d see more threads asking for buffs to the classes they play in order to combat certain builds. But that is too difficult and way too constructive. It is far easier to just say the class they’re losing to is “OP GOD TIER” and then ask for nerfs to every thing that makes the build strong until its no longer a build anymore.

True, but you could also argue that nerfing elementalists as a class because the rune/sigil change made them OP doesn’t take into consideration the elementalist builds that are balanced already that don’t rely on those runes/sigils.

I don’t think any of the professions were broken/unplayable before these runes/sigils became the meta, and changing them won’t break anything, but changing elementalists could cause only 1 elementalist build to be viable at all, if any. I think that’s why arenanet has said they don’t want to nerf elementalists directly, because there isn’t one skill or build that’s OP for them, it’s just the combination of what they already had with the new rune/sigil buffs that they could take advantage of.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Please nerf. Thank you.
From,
-a thief player

I’m leveling a second thief and I approve this message..

Also please nerf engi’s and medi guardians.

Here is why I (and many others) have suggested doing something as simple as balancing battle and doom sigils to bring celes ele in-line.

Celes might-stacking builds use these sigils to much greater effect than any other build, so fixing the sigils helps to balance those specs without harming other specs for those classes.

Yes, nerfing those sigils has a negative impact on other specs that use them as well. However, other specs that use those sigils have alternatives that are just as effective, and the sigil is just a benefit, not a key feature in the build. In celes builds, these two sigils are a core feature. Is there is a celestial build that is successful and doesn’t take battle? NO.

I have also pointed out it is mathematically imbalanced, giving 9-12 stacks of might (which is an additional 315-420 power AND condition damage) giving a total of 630-840 additional stats. This is FAR MORE than any other rune in the game (and more than bloodlust and corruption fully-stacked and combined into 1 rune).

Nerfing doom really only has a negative impact on high-sustain builds that play an attrition game, of which celes builds are king. Without poison, these sustain builds can’t keep up with other sustain builds and just become bunkers that can’t kill a lot of specs. This either forces the balanced builds to take more offense so that they can kill, or allows their opponents to keep up more effectively in the attrition fight.

Solori.6025:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Please nerf. Thank you.
From,
-a thief player

I’m leveling a second thief and I approve this message..

Also please nerf engi’s and medi guardians.

Mesmers are ok, please leave them how they are, right?

Kako.1930:

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I’ve been hearing that they said they won’t be nerfing elementalists, so my guess is that if they do address this, it’ll be in the form of a might stacking nerf targeted toward the sigils and runes. Especially since elementalists went from completely useless to OP god mode after nothing but major nerfs to their elites, aside from the buffs to runes and sigils in the past year or so.

A nerf to might stacking runes would be their most probable move and perhaps shorten the duration of some of the Ele’s boons. Do they have too many sources of regen? Is their regen currently too strong? Does their might last too long and stack too high? Do they have too many sources of might? Anyone who spvps would be councerned that having 25 stacks of might for long durations of time is simply absurd.

Necrotize.2974:

There is already a thread. Everything being said has been said to death and it just repeats itself in a new thread. Sometimes even repeats itself with new people in the same thread.

Relentliss.2170:

Kako.1930:

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I’ve been hearing that they said they won’t be nerfing elementalists, so my guess is that if they do address this, it’ll be in the form of a might stacking nerf targeted toward the sigils and runes. Especially since elementalists went from completely useless to OP god mode after nothing but major nerfs to their elites, aside from the buffs to runes and sigils in the past year or so.

A nerf to might stacking runes would be their most probable move and perhaps shorten the duration of some of the Ele’s boons. Do they have too many sources of regen? Is their regen currently too strong? Does their might last too long and stack too high? Do they have too many sources of might? Anyone who spvps would be councerned that having 25 stacks of might for long durations of time is simply absurd.

Well I can’t see the personal ele might nerf they traited for it in a boon duration line,don’t forget increase damage per boon and ele is naturally celestial no matter what build you chose.

It is really just an amazing combo of separate common fragments. Aspect like boon removal,range burst….are missing but conquest favors them because you have to stay on point. The complaints only comes from pvp in wvw it’s a different story.

Caping eases combo field usage,makes you more susceptible to AoE damage,allies benefit more from support,you shouldn’t disengage temporarily, you can’t really kite…that little circle is more of an issue then it seems.

Please anet, nerf eles. They are kitten to your game in their current state. The evade on burning speed and blast finisher on frozen burst is just too much to handle. Take those away, and nerf signet of restoration so that it promptly takes out 1 copper out of your inventory every time you cast a spell. Of course, that would need some tweaking. The healing would need to also be cut in half to keep things balanced.

From,
-a thief player.

Play as aggressive as the Ele. Burst him, and apply CHILL and POISON ( if possible ) when he comes out of water attunement. When he attunes to Fire, BLIND him. When he attunes to Earth, Rip Boons. Profit!!

Ive been maining a D/D Ele for about 3K hours, and really happy to 1vs1 them on my Shatter Mesmer.

Like Ive said, you need to play as aggressive as him, if not more. Time your burst after he comes out of Water Attunement. When they’re under pressure, once again CHILL and CRIPPLE are your best friends, or he’ll want to run away.

Wranglerist.5489:

Play as aggressive as the Ele. Burst him, and apply CHILL and POISON ( if possible ) when he comes out of water attunement. When he attunes to Fire, BLIND him. When he attunes to Earth, Rip Boons. Profit!!

Ive been maining a D/D Ele for about 3K hours, and really happy to 1vs1 them on my Shatter Mesmer.

Like Ive said, you need to play as aggressive as him, if not more. Time your burst after he comes out of Water Attunement. When they’re under pressure, once again CHILL and CRIPPLE are your best friends, or he’ll want to run away.

Everything Wrangle said. Strip a d/d ele boons and that ele is basically done for. Play as aggressively as he does and you can stay on equal footing. Even if you don’t strip his boons, you just play evasively while he blows through cd’s and you give yourself a large advantage. Eles have a lot more cd’s to manage than other classes.

That’s it. It is simple. Tons of players from varied classes wipe the floor with d/d eles.

One thing to consider about your play style when facing any opponent is look at whether or not you run from that opponent and why. If you find that you run on a regular basis 1v1 just to get away and not die then you aren’t giving yourself the practice you need. Stay in the fight and fight to the death. If your character dies then oh well at least you got in some good practice. You will be more capable the next time. Even 2v1 and 3v1 or whatever if you are outnumbered just scream “Yolo” and try to survive as long as possible. Every little bit of practice helps.

The best players in the game get wrecked regularly. They die a lot. If they didn’t then it wouldn’t be a challenge and it wouldn’t be fun.

I’m getting deja vu. I guess the forum is done with warrior apart from heal sig.

One class nerfed into the ground, onto the next.

Bacon.4918:

Wyrden.4713:

mesmer counters it actually.. and dd cele eles r easy matchup for mesmer in my opinion

Mesmer… Are you serious? Only thing that has a good chance is a necromancer with corrupt boon and even then it is about 50/50. Also, a celestial rifle engineer has a chance of winning, but only if they outplay the elementalist really.

The real problem is that elementalist is not only amazing 1v1, it is arguably just as good as a guardian in team fights. It just does everything at the highest level.

So what you’re saying is that it has counters…

So maybe not as god tier as people claim.