Guild Wars 2

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

other penalties towards stealth is movement speed reduction by 30 % so that you have to be smart when you do come out of stealth but cant just run up to anybody while in it , you have to decide when to be in stealth smartly for ambushes or getting behind enemy lines .

bonus damages for thief using skills in stealth would be raised 25% in effectiveness ,
as for mesmers their boons or ports duration last longer by 25% so everyone can be effective .

this is mainly towards wvw and pvp . as for pve keep it the way it is .

You would have to overhaul the whole thief class.
This change would also make it far more difficult if not impossible to sweep a castle for enemy mesmers after you have conquered it.

5 minutes…

5… minutes…

… I think I am not even going to say what the issue is with this…

To compensate Backstab damage has been multiplied by 15 because of the super long cooldowns xD….

Turamarth.3248:

You would have to overhaul the whole thief class.
This change would also make it far more difficult if not impossible to sweep a castle for enemy mesmers after you have conquered it.

the overhaul on thief would not be that high , their damage output would be slightly increased and their health pool and their toughness would also be slightly increased to make up for their dps sustain . as for sweeping for mesmers its not impossible , they take damage they would come out of stealth , and their skills alone should be more than enough to make up for this care bear version of stealth we have already . i say if you want to play a stealth class , fine so do i , when it was done the right way in daoc which can be brought over here . imagine a group full of thieves all stealthed ganking people or roamers , or do strike forces to drop down siege and try to ninja a tower or keep , with this it would add a lot more excitement to the game .

Pwent.2639:

To compensate Backstab damage has been multiplied by 15 because of the super long cooldowns xD….

well the burst on a thief would still be their but even more so because they can’t abuse stealth like a care bear anymore , they would use it as a tool for ambushing which it should be and so their over all damage would be increased so they can do their thing and get out real quick .

Fine, but only if we can change other classes’ methods of damage mitigation. If warriors use a block, they can hold up the block forever, but at soon as they put it down, all sources of block go on a 5 minute cd and they can’t gain Aegis for 5 minutes. Stances actually become real stances and immobilize you until they’re over. All other classes’ healing skills would become 10 second channels. If you interrupt the channel or are interrupted by someone else, the healing skill goes on a x10 cd of its base cd. That way you need to use your heal smartly and at the right time, not just whenever you get low on health.

good that you are not responsible for class design OP, your changes would instantly destroy 2 classes forever for this game.

I have a suggestion for you OP.
Play a Thief/Mesmer… and L2P, then you might have lesser problems fighting against a skilled player that makes good usage of Stealth at the right moments to outplay you and you might learn, how to counter such players better.

Then theres no need to destroy 2 classes completely, only so that you have then a chance to win against peopel that play these classes, because you are unable to protect yourself, or predict, what your enemy will try while being in stealth…

This is just another QQ Stealth thread like countless others from persons, which are unable/unwilling to learn the game mechanics and aren’t willign to improve their own gameplay, but rather want everything in the game changed to their likings so that everything with that they have the slightest problems with gets erased for them, so that they don’t have to improve themself anymore but rather can 1111111 all enemies just to death

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

other penalties towards stealth is movement speed reduction by 30 % so that you have to be smart when you do come out of stealth but cant just run up to anybody while in it , you have to decide when to be in stealth smartly for ambushes or getting behind enemy lines .

bonus damages for thief using skills in stealth would be raised 25% in effectiveness ,
as for mesmers their boons or ports duration last longer by 25% so everyone can be effective .

this is mainly towards wvw and pvp . as for pve keep it the way it is .

Nice try, but no.

If you want stealth like this, there are 90% of other MMO who has similar stealth mechanic, so you’re free to choose m8.
GW2 are built around a different Stealth mechanic, which was nerfed several times already, so please don’t even try to suggest destroying classes which use it completely, thank you.

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

This one time a Thief killed me and it was INSANE I literally never saw him once stealth is obviously OP

The fact I have never played a Thief or Mesmer allows me to have an unbiased look at this situation and it is clear: Stealth is OP – 5 minute cooldown plz

You know one time . . .

a thief in wvw . . . always on stealth . . . broke a wall with backstab . . and . . . you know

i shot him with my kill shot 33k . . . then full hp in 1 sec . . .

then came for me . . . pum pawn pim . . . i was dead 1234k backstab.

MAKE STEALTH COST 10 GOLD PER USE!

Orpheal.8263:

good that you are not responsible for class design OP, your changes would instantly destroy 2 classes forever for this game.

I have a suggestion for you OP.
Play a Thief/Mesmer… and L2P, then you might have lesser problems fighting against a skilled player that makes good usage of Stealth at the right moments to outplay you and you might learn, how to counter such players better.

Then theres no need to destroy 2 classes completely, only so that you have then a chance to win against peopel that play these classes, because you are unable to protect yourself, or predict, what your enemy will try while being in stealth…

This is just another QQ Stealth thread like countless others from persons, which are unable/unwilling to learn the game mechanics and aren’t willign to improve their own gameplay, but rather want everything in the game changed to their likings so that everything with that they have the slightest problems with gets erased for them, so that they don’t have to improve themself anymore but rather can 1111111 all enemies just to death

i have a mesmer lvl 80 all decked out condi specced , a thief thats lvl 60+ it’s been a while since i last played it but from my experience from both classes is that i find myself out in wvw very easily capable of getting out of danger when it comes down to it and wish the classes were more engaging than just take face apply to keyboard then roll for victory i just want them to be more tactical out of stealth and dangerous instead of using stealth as a free get out of jail card . more often than not i prefer to only use stealth as a means for ambushing . it is hard to do because of the characters name pokes around corners and cliffs and when you are spotted and that can be a pain to deal with when you are trying to do your thing, i believe that thieves would be best served as that ambush type class like in daoc , for example a nightshade which could stay in stealth and wait on bridges to gank solo players they used stealth as a means of sneaking pass enemy lines and destroying roamers ., man those were great times.

thieves need to be that class that should scare other players from solo roaming in wvw because of the ganking they should be able to do . their damage and durability should be increased , and that is a bad thing and it would destroy the class ? how ???? as for my mesmer more often than not i use it just for trolling . yeah the suggestions for mesmer would be a benefit to the class because its boon duration would be increased making it for a more sturdy class . and that is destroying it how ? i have to ask you , is this your first game you ever played as a character that uses stealth in a mmo? because from your qqing about my post it sounds like it .

Thieves can already permastealth when not in combat.

your suggestion is akin to “okay, you can use your defenses only when you aren’t fighting me.”

This would buff mesmers into being crazy tower rats. (thieves too).

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Thieves can already permastealth when not in combat.

your suggestion is akin to “okay, you can use your defenses only when you aren’t fighting me.”

This would buff mesmers into being crazy tower rats. (thieves too).

and they have to use up more utilities to do so . which takes away the purposes for other tactical uses . im against that .

as for mesmers if they get damaged just like a thief they would pop out of stealth and can’t re apply it , and keep in mind the 30 % speed reduction while in stealth .

This step in, step out thing is just bad. The class mechanik is the stealth for thieves.
Rangers and thieves need a big overhaul. If somebody is in stealth other players should see them a very little.
Or maybe let them to go invisible 1-2 times in a fight and give them a tricky fight mechanism. Something like ranger sword/dagger

Far as I am concerned WoW did it right with stealth and the Rogue class, no I don’t play Wow for other reasons one being subscription, but they did do many things right and Stealth they did correctly, GW2 did not.

Turamarth.3248:

You would have to overhaul the whole thief class.
This change would also make it far more difficult if not impossible to sweep a castle for enemy mesmers after you have conquered it.

No you wouldn’t, I have a level 80 thief, and three builds for her, none of which rely heavily on stealth.

Nonetheless, I don’t think this is a great idea, just gutting in combat stealth takes a lot of fun and utility away from the class. There are better options.

What I would like to see is the duration of stealth greatly increased, and give it counterplay around positioning. The best way, in my opinion, would be to make stealth usable under the stipulation that you break line of sight. This would allow thieves to have more advanced stealth play by requiring the use of disables, blinds, and terrain to be able to restealth in combat, and give counterplay to the opponent by disabling the thief, chasing, or in any way preventing the thief from breaking line of sight.

So basically, correct me if I’m wrong here, what you’re proposing is this:
We half-kitten rip off the rogue’s stealth from WoW, though not entirely just a couple of parts.

I see you put a lot of thought into this, I salute you.

While yeah, rogues in WoW do work…. but there’s a lot behind their design then what you’re getting inspired from.

My thought would be to have a ghostly image (like a mesmer phantasm or a necro with SA/SW active) of the stealthed character flash for a short duration of around 0.25 or 0.33 seconds whenever damage is taken.

Condition damage is excluded, lest getting hit with bleed/poison/torment completely disable stealth for the duration.

GW2 consistently rewards active players. That means lurking or perching are not well thought of.

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

Sagat.3285:

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

it’s at the top or did you not read ?

Personally, I love the idea of perma stealth, lose upon attack, and have a timed “reveal” if you will. As stated by a previous poster, this worked for many MMOs. However, a 5 minute timer is waaaay too long. It’s gonna need to be half a minute or less imo.

You’d also need other factors in there, like dealing damage or taking damage resets the timer, thus putting emphasis on getting in, kill, and getting out fast so that you can restealth.

I think the current spam of in-combat stealth every 3/4 seconds is what causes a lot of upset players.

This would have to cause a rehaul of character though and I don’t see Anet doing this.

And I also don’t get the complaint about having tower-rats. Maybe this would make defending a keep important and less of a driveby. It’d certainly help to change the way people think of keeps now.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Personally, I love the idea of perma stealth, lose upon attack, and have a timed “reveal” if you will. As stated by a previous poster, this worked for many MMOs. However, a 5 minute timer is waaaay too long. It’s gonna need to be half a minute or less imo.

You’d also need other factors in there, like dealing damage or taking damage resets the timer, thus putting emphasis on getting in, kill, and getting out fast so that you can restealth.

I think the current spam of in-combat stealth every 3/4 seconds is what causes a lot of upset players.

This would have to cause a rehaul of character though and I don’t see Anet doing this.

And I also don’t get the complaint about having tower-rats. Maybe this would make defending a keep important and less of a driveby. It’d certainly help to change the way people think of keeps now.

Who the hell can stealth every 3/4 seconds? The misinformation of the average GW2 player when it comes to stealth or any type of PvP mechanics is ridiculous. Have you ever heard of REVEALED? How about Initiative? Or Utility Skills Cooldowns? ALL of those mechanics prevent stealthing as often as you claim it to be

Bottom Line: Go Play WoW – Those of us who have been playing this game for a while have adjusted and stopped crying about stealth a LONG time ago – L 2 P

For a profession that relies on stealth, this would make the profession useless even to skilled players.

Also OP, your suggested compensation isn’t good at all.

I agree OP. Good suggestion.

But I disagree that the damage needs buffing as compensation. Thief damage is fine.

Posters are correct in that Thief would need to be overhaluled somewhat. But then that would be a good thing. They need it anyway.

To solve the Mesmers hiding in keeps, simple solution – make Portal not work through intact gates and walls. That’s the way it should’ve been since the beginning. If I never have to hear “sweep for Mesmers” again I’ll be happy.

Stealth design is just stupid in this game. Everyone knows it.

lorndarken.3702:

Sagat.3285:

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

it’s at the top or did you not read ?

i think everyone did..so let me elaborate for them,

YOU need to go through every thief trait, utility, and weapon.

And compensate for the change that you want.

No not " lets just add more damage and defense".

You need to actively give the entire thief community and Anet since they would have to RECODE everything for an entire class a reason to even take this seriously. So far this has been a joke of a thread with half shot idea’s and heresay.

Then you need to go through the same thing with mesmer.
Every trait, utility, and weapon.

and you need to compensate the classes for an entire overhaul to the system.

Good luck.

lorndarken.3702:

Sagat.3285:

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

it’s at the top or did you not read ?

You do know to stealth the thief has to hit,use time and initiative or blow a long CD skill right?

Mr. OP forget how this affects thief in squad : channel skills don’t stop when you stealth,neither do bouncing skills , reduced movement in stealth means less chance of getting out so luckily a mosquito doesn’t hit you. You need to take of all of thief now the aspect you prefer….It’s a failed topic stealth is meant to disengage for a while(not perma) to reengage due to the initiative system and thief defense,you can’t make a medium class a heavy one because you want to change stealth.

Perma stealth is an exaggeration from whiners.

Solori.6025:

lorndarken.3702:

Sagat.3285:

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

it’s at the top or did you not read ?

i think everyone did..so let me elaborate for them,

YOU need to go through every thief trait, utility, and weapon.

And compensate for the change that you want.

No not " lets just add more damage and defense".

You need to actively give the entire thief community and Anet since they would have to RECODE everything for an entire class a reason to even take this seriously. So far this has been a joke of a thread with half shot idea’s and heresay.

Then you need to go through the same thing with mesmer.
Every trait, utility, and weapon.

and you need to compensate the classes for an entire overhaul to the system.

Good luck.

^
And this, people, is true for 99% of all the complaints/ideas/QQs about stealth.

No.

And since I can’t post without at least 15 characters, I’ll say it again.

No.

Zero Day.2594:

Solori.6025:

lorndarken.3702:

Sagat.3285:

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

it’s at the top or did you not read ?

i think everyone did..so let me elaborate for them,

YOU need to go through every thief trait, utility, and weapon.

And compensate for the change that you want.

No not " lets just add more damage and defense".

You need to actively give the entire thief community and Anet since they would have to RECODE everything for an entire class a reason to even take this seriously. So far this has been a joke of a thread with half shot idea’s and heresay.

Then you need to go through the same thing with mesmer.
Every trait, utility, and weapon.

and you need to compensate the classes for an entire overhaul to the system.

Good luck.

^
And this, people, is true for 99% of all the complaints/ideas/QQs about stealth.

Another add on to the nerf wish list I say, since it is quite hilarious with its own unique twist XD

Make stealth like in sc2, barely visible but still visible…

Zero Day.2594:

Solori.6025:

lorndarken.3702:

Sagat.3285:

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

it’s at the top or did you not read ?

i think everyone did..so let me elaborate for them,

YOU need to go through every thief trait, utility, and weapon.

And compensate for the change that you want.

No not " lets just add more damage and defense".

You need to actively give the entire thief community and Anet since they would have to RECODE everything for an entire class a reason to even take this seriously. So far this has been a joke of a thread with half shot idea’s and heresay.

Then you need to go through the same thing with mesmer.
Every trait, utility, and weapon.

and you need to compensate the classes for an entire overhaul to the system.

Good luck.

^
And this, people, is true for 99% of all the complaints/ideas/QQs about stealth.

No its not true at all.

Changes to thief would be necessary of course. But it would be doable. And thief and GW2 would be better for it.

And Mes wouldn’t really need anything. Stealth is not essential to Mes. They have plenty of options without it. (Granted all Mes options are kinda lame anyway so they class needs redesigning anyway.)

Johje Holan.4607:

Zero Day.2594:

Solori.6025:

lorndarken.3702:

Sagat.3285:

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

it’s at the top or did you not read ?

i think everyone did..so let me elaborate for them,

YOU need to go through every thief trait, utility, and weapon.

And compensate for the change that you want.

No not " lets just add more damage and defense".

You need to actively give the entire thief community and Anet since they would have to RECODE everything for an entire class a reason to even take this seriously. So far this has been a joke of a thread with half shot idea’s and heresay.

Then you need to go through the same thing with mesmer.
Every trait, utility, and weapon.

and you need to compensate the classes for an entire overhaul to the system.

Good luck.

^
And this, people, is true for 99% of all the complaints/ideas/QQs about stealth.

No its not true at all.

Changes to thief would be necessary of course. But it would be doable. And thief and GW2 would be better for it.

And Mes wouldn’t really need anything. Stealth is not essential to Mes. They have plenty of options without it. (Granted all Mes options are kinda lame anyway so they class needs redesigning anyway.)

Not too sure what’s not true in those two posts…
I’m not sure you’ve seen a lot of the QQs/Complaints about stealth… and how their very poorly done, besides of course getting the message across that “I GOT KILLED BY TEEF PLOX NERFZ STEALTHZORS.”

Also, OP, your thread has been added to the Nerf Wish List

lorndarken.3702:

Turamarth.3248:

You would have to overhaul the whole thief class.
This change would also make it far more difficult if not impossible to sweep a castle for enemy mesmers after you have conquered it.

the overhaul on thief would not be that high , their damage output would be slightly increased and their health pool and their toughness would also be slightly increased to make up for their dps sustain . as for sweeping for mesmers its not impossible , they take damage they would come out of stealth , and their skills alone should be more than enough to make up for this care bear version of stealth we have already . i say if you want to play a stealth class , fine so do i , when it was done the right way in daoc which can be brought over here . imagine a group full of thieves all stealthed ganking people or roamers , or do strike forces to drop down siege and try to ninja a tower or keep , with this it would add a lot more excitement to the game .

and now ur making the thief more like the other classes, so why play a thief. gw2 is known for class diversity

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I think the current spam of in-combat stealth every 3/4 seconds is what causes a lot of upset players.

There is no “current spam of in combat stealth every 3-4 seconds”! Not only do we not have the inititiave for it, but it would also severely take away the damage potential you usually spend initiative on. Pluss you have revealed that prevents you from restealthing.

Johje Holan.4607:

No its not true at all.

Changes to thief would be necessary of course. But it would be doable. And thief and GW2 would be better for it.

1. Why would it be necessary for Thieves need to be changed? Because you cannot beat them? Because they have no Hammers?
2. Why would it be better? Ever played GW1 and knew Assassin? Thieves are puppies compared to those
3. How can it be doable? What would you change? Ever thought about it, or just grabbing random arguements here?
4. Ever considered that there is a large margin of people who can combat Thieves the way they are now? Why should a class be overhauled for a minority which cannot?

Johje Holan.4607:

And Mes wouldn’t really need anything. Stealth is not essential to Mes. They have plenty of options without it. (Granted all Mes options are kinda lame anyway so they class needs redesigning anyway.)

1. Ever considered why Mesmers got Stealth in the first place? Why is it not essential?
2. What makes Mesmers lame? The fact that they are pink with butterflies?

and lastly

• Ever once considered playing these classes, learning their weaknesses and strengths, get to know their imbalances and thought of viable ways to rework this?

If you cannot answer the last one, I would kindly advise you to not talk about balancing… You obviously have no clue what you are on about and are just complaining in a biased format… I can do this for all eight classes if I wanted to, and you’d probably think I’d be ridicilous by some of the suggestion I make for the class(es) you play…

Edit:

Forgot; Warrior, Elementalist and Necromancer main – Guardian close fourth…

stealth classes have the same issue in nearly every game:

because you can’t see what they are doing it’s harder to learn how to counter them compared to toher classes.

play a thief/mesmer for a while in pvp -then- tell us about “care bear” stealth. i suck as a thief but playing one for a good while at least teaches you that they are not OP and to respect those that actually pull off nice stunts, it’s incredibly easy to find yourself kissing the ground as a thief.

adozu.6398:

stealth classes have the same issue in nearly every game:

because you can’t see what they are doing it’s harder to learn how to counter them compared to toher classes.

play a thief/mesmer for a while in pvp -then- tell us about “care bear” stealth. i suck as a thief but playing one for a good while at least teaches you that they are not OP and to respect those that actually pull off nice stunts, it’s incredibly easy to find yourself kissing the ground as a thief.

Exactly – one of the main reason I do not play a Thief is because I cannot pull it off… Maybe with a lot of practice I can, but hey, see that keyword? Practice! Brilliant!

People need to learn that combatting a Stealth Class requires a different kind of mindset… Unlike skills with tells, Stealth does not – buuuuut, you can predict Stealth itself … Learn the timers, the cooldowns, the skills and tricks that can be done, and suddenly you will learn that Stealth is really made for defense, and much less for offense… If you can pressure them while they are trying to be on the defense, they are likely going to be dead – which means you won the game of minds…

Narkodx.1472:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Personally, I love the idea of perma stealth, lose upon attack, and have a timed “reveal” if you will. As stated by a previous poster, this worked for many MMOs. However, a 5 minute timer is waaaay too long. It’s gonna need to be half a minute or less imo.

You’d also need other factors in there, like dealing damage or taking damage resets the timer, thus putting emphasis on getting in, kill, and getting out fast so that you can restealth.

I think the current spam of in-combat stealth every 3/4 seconds is what causes a lot of upset players.

This would have to cause a rehaul of character though and I don’t see Anet doing this.

And I also don’t get the complaint about having tower-rats. Maybe this would make defending a keep important and less of a driveby. It’d certainly help to change the way people think of keeps now.

Who the hell can stealth every 3/4 seconds?
L 2 P

Irony is irony.

nacario.9417:

There is no “current spam of in combat stealth every 3-4 seconds”! Not only do we not have the inititiave for it, but it would also severely take away the damage potential you usually spend initiative on. Pluss you have revealed that prevents you from restealthing.

If you’re playing a backstab build, you should be stealthing once Revealed is gone (3 or 4 seconds depending on gamemode) and initiative management is quite easy with certain traits and skills. There are several weapon sets that also can help you keep your stealth up frequently. I will admit that there are a few that don’t, but those builds don’t really rely on stealth now do they?

Self-originating Revealed = 3 or 4 seconds. Not sure why you two didn’t think of that when you read my original post.

Also, I just used the word “spam” as an exaggeration. Don’t take it as word for word. The post is not meant to be literal. And regardless, that’s what I hear quite frequently when people complain about stealth whether you like it or not.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Narkodx.1472:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Personally, I love the idea of perma stealth, lose upon attack, and have a timed “reveal” if you will. As stated by a previous poster, this worked for many MMOs. However, a 5 minute timer is waaaay too long. It’s gonna need to be half a minute or less imo.

You’d also need other factors in there, like dealing damage or taking damage resets the timer, thus putting emphasis on getting in, kill, and getting out fast so that you can restealth.

I think the current spam of in-combat stealth every 3/4 seconds is what causes a lot of upset players.

This would have to cause a rehaul of character though and I don’t see Anet doing this.

And I also don’t get the complaint about having tower-rats. Maybe this would make defending a keep important and less of a driveby. It’d certainly help to change the way people think of keeps now.

Who the hell can stealth every 3/4 seconds?
L 2 P

Irony is irony.

nacario.9417:

There is no “current spam of in combat stealth every 3-4 seconds”! Not only do we not have the inititiave for it, but it would also severely take away the damage potential you usually spend initiative on. Pluss you have revealed that prevents you from restealthing.

If you’re playing a backstab build, you should be stealthing once Revealed is gone (3 or 4 seconds depending on gamemode) and initiative management is quite easy with certain traits and skills. There are several weapon sets that also can help you keep your stealth up frequently. I will admit that there are a few that don’t, but those builds don’t really rely on stealth now do they?

Self-originating Revealed = 3 or 4 seconds. Not sure why you two didn’t think of that when you read my original post.

Also, I just used the word “spam” as an exaggeration. Don’t take it as word for word. The post is not meant to be literal. And regardless, that’s what I hear quite frequently when people complain about stealth whether you like it or not.

SO MUCH FAIL

If I am using D/D how can I stealth every 3/4 seconds? By using Cloak and Dagger of course! If my opponent allows me to land every single cloak and dagger during the fight guess who needs to L2P?

If I am using D/P how can I stealth every 3/4 seconds? By using BP+HS combo of course! If my opponent does not interrupt the combo during the fight who needs to L2P? Lets also not forget this combo is extremely initiative heavy and cost 9 Initiative!!
If you are running x/6/6x/x/x that is 9/12 or 75% of my initiative! Yes I am aware of infusion of shadow returning two initiative – ONCE, remember it was nerfed

When I duel non-braindead opponents you’re kitten right I do not stealth every 3/4 seconds

Narkodx.1472:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Narkodx.1472:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Personally, I love the idea of perma stealth, lose upon attack, and have a timed “reveal” if you will. As stated by a previous poster, this worked for many MMOs. However, a 5 minute timer is waaaay too long. It’s gonna need to be half a minute or less imo.

You’d also need other factors in there, like dealing damage or taking damage resets the timer, thus putting emphasis on getting in, kill, and getting out fast so that you can restealth.

I think the current spam of in-combat stealth every 3/4 seconds is what causes a lot of upset players.

This would have to cause a rehaul of character though and I don’t see Anet doing this.

And I also don’t get the complaint about having tower-rats. Maybe this would make defending a keep important and less of a driveby. It’d certainly help to change the way people think of keeps now.

Who the hell can stealth every 3/4 seconds?
L 2 P

Irony is irony.

nacario.9417:

There is no “current spam of in combat stealth every 3-4 seconds”! Not only do we not have the inititiave for it, but it would also severely take away the damage potential you usually spend initiative on. Pluss you have revealed that prevents you from restealthing.

If you’re playing a backstab build, you should be stealthing once Revealed is gone (3 or 4 seconds depending on gamemode) and initiative management is quite easy with certain traits and skills. There are several weapon sets that also can help you keep your stealth up frequently. I will admit that there are a few that don’t, but those builds don’t really rely on stealth now do they?

Self-originating Revealed = 3 or 4 seconds. Not sure why you two didn’t think of that when you read my original post.

Also, I just used the word “spam” as an exaggeration. Don’t take it as word for word. The post is not meant to be literal. And regardless, that’s what I hear quite frequently when people complain about stealth whether you like it or not.

SO MUCH FAIL

If I am using D/D how can I stealth every 3/4 seconds? By using Cloak and Dagger of course! If my opponent allows me to land every single cloak and dagger during the fight guess who needs to L2P?

If I am using D/P how can I stealth every 3/4 seconds? By using BP+HS combo of course! If my opponent does not interrupt the combo during the fight who needs to L2P? Lets also not forget this combo is extremely initiative heavy and cost 9 Initiative!!
If you are running x/6/6x/x/x that is 9/12 or 75% of my initiative! Yes I am aware of infusion of shadow returning two initiative – ONCE, remember it was nerfed

When I duel non-braindead opponents you’re kitten right I do not stealth every 3/4 seconds

Hey, if you have problems landing C/D that’s your issue, not mine. I normally don’t have that issue with my thief. You’re also forgetting utilities, but I understand where you’re coming from because not everyone runs shealth engaging uts. However, add up all those potential stealth skills and you can be darting in and out of stealth frequently. I’m not talking about long drawn out fights though, so I’ll give you that.

Btw, not everyone that uses stealth use x/6/6/x/x builds.

Also, gonna restate this because it still applies:
“And regardless, that’s what I hear quite frequently when people complain about stealth whether you like it or not.”

kelman.9451:

Far as I am concerned WoW did it right with stealth and the Rogue class, no I don’t play Wow for other reasons one being subscription, but they did do many things right and Stealth they did correctly, GW2 did not.

and that why rogues were least played class for almost entire expansion and their arena rep was around 1% when it should have been around 10%

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Narkodx.1472:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Narkodx.1472:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Personally, I love the idea of perma stealth, lose upon attack, and have a timed “reveal” if you will. As stated by a previous poster, this worked for many MMOs. However, a 5 minute timer is waaaay too long. It’s gonna need to be half a minute or less imo.

You’d also need other factors in there, like dealing damage or taking damage resets the timer, thus putting emphasis on getting in, kill, and getting out fast so that you can restealth.

I think the current spam of in-combat stealth every 3/4 seconds is what causes a lot of upset players.

This would have to cause a rehaul of character though and I don’t see Anet doing this.

And I also don’t get the complaint about having tower-rats. Maybe this would make defending a keep important and less of a driveby. It’d certainly help to change the way people think of keeps now.

Who the hell can stealth every 3/4 seconds?
L 2 P

Irony is irony.

nacario.9417:

There is no “current spam of in combat stealth every 3-4 seconds”! Not only do we not have the inititiave for it, but it would also severely take away the damage potential you usually spend initiative on. Pluss you have revealed that prevents you from restealthing.

If you’re playing a backstab build, you should be stealthing once Revealed is gone (3 or 4 seconds depending on gamemode) and initiative management is quite easy with certain traits and skills. There are several weapon sets that also can help you keep your stealth up frequently. I will admit that there are a few that don’t, but those builds don’t really rely on stealth now do they?

Self-originating Revealed = 3 or 4 seconds. Not sure why you two didn’t think of that when you read my original post.

Also, I just used the word “spam” as an exaggeration. Don’t take it as word for word. The post is not meant to be literal. And regardless, that’s what I hear quite frequently when people complain about stealth whether you like it or not.

SO MUCH FAIL

If I am using D/D how can I stealth every 3/4 seconds? By using Cloak and Dagger of course! If my opponent allows me to land every single cloak and dagger during the fight guess who needs to L2P?

If I am using D/P how can I stealth every 3/4 seconds? By using BP+HS combo of course! If my opponent does not interrupt the combo during the fight who needs to L2P? Lets also not forget this combo is extremely initiative heavy and cost 9 Initiative!!
If you are running x/6/6x/x/x that is 9/12 or 75% of my initiative! Yes I am aware of infusion of shadow returning two initiative – ONCE, remember it was nerfed

When I duel non-braindead opponents you’re kitten right I do not stealth every 3/4 seconds

Hey, if you have problems landing C/D that’s your issue, not mine. I normally don’t have that issue with my thief. You’re also forgetting utilities, but I understand where you’re coming from because not everyone runs shealth engaging uts. However, add up all those potential stealth skills and you can be darting in and out of stealth frequently. I’m not talking about long drawn out fights though, so I’ll give you that.

Btw, not everyone that uses stealth use x/6/6/x/x builds.

Also, gonna restate this because it still applies:
“And regardless, that’s what I hear quite frequently when people complain about stealth whether you like it or not.”

Where in the post did I say I have trouble landing CnD?
Where in the post did I say everyone uses x/6/6/x/x

You have no counter arguments besides “lots of ppl complain about stealth and they say we can stealth every 3/4 secs”

Guess what? Most people are uninformed keyboard turning skill clickers – you sound like one right now -

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Johje Holan.4607:

No its not true at all.

Changes to thief would be necessary of course. But it would be doable. And thief and GW2 would be better for it.

1. Why would it be necessary for Thieves need to be changed? Because you cannot beat them? Because they have no Hammers?
2. Why would it be better? Ever played GW1 and knew Assassin? Thieves are puppies compared to those
3. How can it be doable? What would you change? Ever thought about it, or just grabbing random arguements here?
4. Ever considered that there is a large margin of people who can combat Thieves the way they are now? Why should a class be overhauled for a minority which cannot?

Johje Holan.4607:

And Mes wouldn’t really need anything. Stealth is not essential to Mes. They have plenty of options without it. (Granted all Mes options are kinda lame anyway so they class needs redesigning anyway.)

1. Ever considered why Mesmers got Stealth in the first place? Why is it not essential?
2. What makes Mesmers lame? The fact that they are pink with butterflies?

and lastly

• Ever once considered playing these classes, learning their weaknesses and strengths, get to know their imbalances and thought of viable ways to rework this?

If you cannot answer the last one, I would kindly advise you to not talk about balancing… You obviously have no clue what you are on about and are just complaining in a biased format… I can do this for all eight classes if I wanted to, and you’d probably think I’d be ridicilous by some of the suggestion I make for the class(es) you play…

Edit:

Forgot; Warrior, Elementalist and Necromancer main – Guardian close fourth…

I have played both these classes. Mes was my first toon and my first 80. I made a thief because people said to make a thief to learn about it. (Also play Ele and Ranger).

• I meant that it would be necessary to make changes to thief if major changes to stealth were made.

• I did play GW1 and played a Sin. I loved her. And more importantly I loved fighting against Sins. Thief is the kitten child of the GW1 Assassin. Its like Anet wanted to make something similar but didn’t want to make a Sin so made thief and slapped on stealth.

• Stealth not only makes you invisible. It makes you faster. Stronger. Hit harder. That just ain’t right. There was a post awhile back that was the most well thought out, well reasoned critique of stealth. And it had great suggestions of changes that even thieves acknowledged would be good. Too bad the search function doesn’t work or I’d find it.

• There is an even larger margin of people who don’t like stealth. Being able to combat a thief is not really the point, sometimes I die to thieves, sometimes I kill them. But most often they just run away in stealth or stealth and run away then come back. Its just not a fun mechanic to play against.

• Mes got stealth because they’re lame and Anet was throwing them a bone. The fact that they’re pink with butterflies is the best part about them.

Part of the problem in GW2 is that its hard to balance between the three game modes. A mechanic may be ok in one mode but be UP or OP or just bad in another. Most of my perspective comes from WvW, where stealth in general and the combo of stealth and thieves in particular are bad.

Anet is not going to make changes to stealth so it doesn’t really matter what any of us thinks. They’re not going to put resources or effort into it, especially since most of the badness of it shows up in WvW.

Read my comment again… You did nothing to prove that it is a problem with the game’s mechanic, but once more reinforced your believes as to why you struggle with it…

But hey, I am a nice guy… I will give you a hint as to where to start: Redesign Thief completely… Number by number, trait by trait… good luck

Narkodx.1472:

Where in the post did I say I have trouble landing CnD?
Where in the post did I say everyone uses x/6/6/x/x

You have no counter arguments besides “lots of ppl complain about stealth and they say we can stealth every 3/4 secs”

Guess what? Most people are uninformed keyboard turning skill clickers – you sound like one right now -

Geez, why the hate? Dude, you gotta relax and take it easy or your going to blow a gasket.

I’m not trying to argue or counter-argue with anyone. You sort of just blew up on something that wasn’t even the point of my post. I think you finally acknowledged the point though with my “counter arguement” because, really, that’s all I was saying.

The other point was just support to an idea.

The problem is the combination of all those exaggerations and the ignorance of thief opponents. I know players that quitted thief because they found it too hard,any decent player knows how to counter all thief’s sets,they are more than 1 build out there capable of doing so against each of them, so what if you don’t kill him they’re built to reset fights,stop mentioning 1v1…..

Leave your self-made Nightmareland….

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Read my comment again… You did nothing to prove that it is a problem with the game’s mechanic, but once more reinforced your believes as to why you struggle with it…

But hey, I am a nice guy… I will give you a hint as to where to start: Redesign Thief completely… Number by number, trait by trait… good luck

There’s nothing to prove. I believe that it would be better if it were changed. And most people agree with me rather than you that it is perfect as it is.

And I don’t have to redesign thief. I and others can and have given them some points. That’s the purpose of the Profession Balance thread. To discuss Profession Balance. It’s Anet’s job to address the comments or not and implement or not the suggestions of the players.

Anyway you are prone to extremes and exaggerations I detect (perhaps why you like thief and stealth as it is). You wouldn’t need to redesign it completely, number by number, trait by trait. Adjustments true, a complete redesign no.