[sPvP] Consume Plasma Overpowered
i wish i could steal that from my mesmer. yay 3 sec stability.kinda weird they can steal such weir things
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
I agree it’s over the top. All the boons alone are rather epic. It also gives an innate advantage to a Thief vs. Mesmer 1v1. Other professions do not have professions specific effects on any skill/trait/etc.
If anything, Steal in competitive play should provide a common effect across all professions.
Some people really don’t want to accept the fact that they lost.
Ele steal is kinda ridiculous too. 10 sec chill lolll
Thank you for inching us 1 skill closer to the “Every single skill/ability/trait associated with thief is OP” singularity.
Honestly, just please, stop coming to the boards every time something strikes you as unfair on paper. Go, roll a thief, and then tell me how consume plasma turns you into an unstoppable killing machine.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
(edited by evilapprentice.6379)
Thank you for inching us 1 skill closer to the “Every single skill/ability/trait associated with thief is OP” singularity.
Honestly, just please, stop coming to the boards every time strike you as unfair on paper. Go, roll a thief, and then tell me how consume plasma turns you into an unstoppable killing machine.
If you were meant to have all boons in competitive play, don’t you think you’d be given an option other than stealing against a mesmer?
Just because you have it via steal doesn’t make it correct or desired. If it is a “desired” mechanic, then I would imagine thieves everywhere would be screaming “I need Consume Plasma when fighting every profession, not just mesmers!”. I’m sure you can guess the response you’d get to that…
Thank you for inching us 1 skill closer to the “Every single skill/ability/trait associated with thief is OP” singularity.
Honestly, just please, stop coming to the boards every time strike you as unfair on paper. Go, roll a thief, and then tell me how consume plasma turns you into an unstoppable killing machine.
If you were meant to have all boons in competitive play, don’t you think you’d be given an option other than stealing against a mesmer?
Except there is an option for getting it in competitive play – by stealing it from a mesmer. The existence of the skill your saying shouldn’t exist defeats your entire “argument”.
Just because you have it via steal doesn’t make it correct or desired.
False – that’s exactly what it means. The “From player” steals were specifically designed and balanced for sPvP, it’s specifically desired by the developers that thieves get consume plasma when stealing from a mesmer, it’s not random.
If it is a “desired” mechanic , then I would imagine thieves everywhere would be screaming “I need Consume Plasma when fighting every profession, not just mesmers!”. I’m sure you can guess the response you’d get to that…
This section is absolutely devoid of logic, I can’t really comment in any way that would be constructive or helpful.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
(edited by evilapprentice.6379)
Yea I’d have to agree. A bit silly to construct a question that immediately rules out the obvious answer as proof to some argument. Why yes, yes thieves were meant to have all boons in competitive play. They are supposed to steal it. Because it is stolen does make it correct or desired because the profession is a thief. That’s exactly what thieves do. Steal.
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
Common sense should tell you that 10 seconds of protection, regen, vigor and fury all in the same skill, under an average cooldown, and with still other boons in addition to those one, is completely broken.
You don’t need to hate thieves, or even know which profession has this ability, to know this.
My point with the comment on “desired” is based upon the development of GW2 that we’ve experienced to date. There have been effects, combinations, special skill usage that was not planned or foreseen by ANet. To assume that “Consume Plasma” was intended for competitive play may be a stretch (Consume Plasma is available in PvE from some ghostly mobs).
You can find numerous examples where ANet went “whoops, that’s not right” and subsequently nerfed something into the ground.
To further support this line of thought, I specifically said you don’t have any other sources of profession-based stability. This indirectly supports the line of thinking of “mistake” regarding Consume Plasma in competitive play.
Nope it’s not conclusive… just facts that may suggest my point of view.
The bottom line remains – it’s overpowered in today’s game.
fun fact: stealing from mesmer is the only way for thief to get stability without rune speccing or cancelling the dagger storm cast.
Common sense should tell you that 10 seconds of protection, regen, vigor and fury all in the same skill, under an average cooldown, and with still other boons in addition to those one, is completely broken.
You don’t need to hate thieves, or even know which profession has this ability, to know this.
guardian can do virtually the same thing, while at the same time mass cleansing everyone in a 600 range, breaking stun and it’s on an instant cast instead of a 1s cast, at the cost of a slightly increased cooldown (and that’s not even traited). it also doesn’t rely on stalking mesmers around.
guardian can do virtually the same thing, while at the same time mass cleansing everyone in a 600 range, breaking stun and it’s on an instant cast instead of a 1s cast, at the cost of a slightly increased cooldown (and that’s not even traited). it also doesn’t rely on stalking mesmers around.
The skill you’re talking about had the duration of all its boons nerfed to half in sPvP.
Thank you for inching us 1 skill closer to the “Every single skill/ability/trait associated with thief is OP” singularity.
Honestly, just please, stop coming to the boards every time strike you as unfair on paper. Go, roll a thief, and then tell me how consume plasma turns you into an unstoppable killing machine.
If you were meant to have all boons in competitive play, don’t you think you’d be given an option other than stealing against a mesmer?
Just because you have it via steal doesn’t make it correct or desired. If it is a “desired” mechanic, then I would imagine thieves everywhere would be screaming “I need Consume Plasma when fighting every profession, not just mesmers!”. I’m sure you can guess the response you’d get to that…
yeah, this mechanic is totally undesired. it programmed itself without the devs’ consent. happens all the time.
I’d look at how Consume Plasma functions in relation to counter skills that remove boons or convert them into conditions rather than the simple fact that it is (almost) all boons for 10s. Common sense tells you to look for a counter. Yet a lot of the counter skills work over time, like Well of Corruption or Nullfield pulsing 1 removed per second. That’s not too good of a counter, which does seem to render Consume Plasma a little overpowered.
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
(edited by Chaba.5410)
yeah, this mechanic is totally undesired. it programmed itself without the devs’ consent. happens all the time.
Keep reading…
The bottom line remains – it’s overpowered in today’s game.
You’ll have to prove that – just saying it doesn’t make it so.
Example: The bottom line remains – it’s not overpowered in today’s game
While that may be my opinion, I can’t really state it as fact without attempting to prove why.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
(edited by evilapprentice.6379)
IN MY OPINION, it’s overpowered in today’s game.
IN MY OPINION, it’s overpowered in today’s game.
Oh, that’s much different.
I disagree.
I’ll even go so far as to give you a reason.
Steal is a thief’s F1 class mechanic – If you’re going to complain how powerful it is, go ahead and compare it to attunements, burst skills, shatter, etc etc etc.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
(edited by evilapprentice.6379)
Well a-net has apparently already thought of a solution.
They are nerfing Mesmers. No Mesmer no Consume Plasma. ^^
IN MY OPINION, it’s overpowered in today’s game.
Oh, that’s much different.
I disagree.
I’ll even go so far as to give you a reason.
Steal is a thief’s F1 class mechanic – If you’re going to complain how powerful it is, go ahead and compare it to attunements, burst skills, shatter, etc etc etc.
I’ll go so far as to argue your reason has no merit.
If ANet changed Steal to 1 Shot Infinite Range Insta-Kill you’d argue it was not overpowered because it’s the thief’s F1 class mechanic.
Your reason holds no water.
IN MY OPINION, it’s overpowered in today’s game.
Oh, that’s much different.
I disagree.
I’ll even go so far as to give you a reason.
Steal is a thief’s F1 class mechanic – If you’re going to complain how powerful it is, go ahead and compare it to attunements, burst skills, shatter, etc etc etc.
I’ll go so far as to argue your reason has no merit.
If ANet changed Steal to 1 Shot Infinite Range Insta-Kill you’d argue it was not overpowered because it’s the thief’s F1 class mechanic.
Your reason holds no water..
Sigh.
Following my logic above, if you compared a 1 shot infinite range insta-kill to shatter, burst, etc, you’d conclude that it was wildly overpowered.
If you compare consume plasma (its effect, its availability) to shatter, burst, etc, you’d conclude that it’s not as powerful – which is fine, there are other components to steal. When you compare steal in its entirety to other f1 mechanics, you’d conclude that it’s not OP.
So you see it was your mistake in following my logic, not my logic, that caused the misunderstanding.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
(edited by evilapprentice.6379)
Seems like a lot of people haven’t played a thief.
- Steal has to HIT in order to gain the desired ability. An evade or a block would prevent the thief from getting “consume plasma”.
- Steal has a range. It means a thief doesn’t ALWAYS have “consume plasma” when fighting mesmer, beucase it has to hit and in order to hit it requires the mesmer to be within the range (this means that if there’s a mesmer in the other team it’s not like the thief instantaneously gain the “consume plasma” skill).
- Runes of Lyssa does pretty much the same thing, with both upsides and downsides (it cleanse all conditions, is on a longer cd, it doesn’t require a hit etc, etc.)
In conclusion, to the one who said “If you were meant to have all boons in competitive play, don’t you think you’d be given an option other than stealing against a mesmer?” I’d like to suggest to check how Runes of Lyssa work.
IN MY OPINION, it’s overpowered in today’s game.
Oh, that’s much different.
I disagree.
I’ll even go so far as to give you a reason.
Steal is a thief’s F1 class mechanic – If you’re going to complain how powerful it is, go ahead and compare it to attunements, burst skills, shatter, etc etc etc.
Attunements suck. If Steal was like the ele mechanic, it would have a 5 minute cooldown.
If i remember correctly all steal skills are quite strong.
If i remember correctly all steal skills are quite strong.
Typically, yes, but the other ones can all be dodged.
Elementalist – Ice Shard – Difficult animation to pick, but dodgable
Necromancer – Skull – Big tell, dodgable
Thief – Feathers – Can’t really dodge
Engineer – Goop – Puts down a field that doesn’t really do much
Ranger – Tree thing – Thief has to stay in the field to get benefit out of it, not necessarily a good state of affairs for them
Guardian – Stunny Club – Dodge
Warrior – Spinny Axe – Dodge/kite/stop shooting at them
The mesmer one seems to be more applicable in more circumstances, powerful, and less counterable than a simple dodge. Not to say it’s OP; I can’t say for sure whether it is.
Seems like a lot of people haven’t played a thief.
- Steal has to HIT in order to gain the desired ability. An evade or a block would prevent the thief from getting “consume plasma”.
- Steal has a range. It means a thief doesn’t ALWAYS have “consume plasma” when fighting mesmer, beucase it has to hit and in order to hit it requires the mesmer to be within the range (this means that if there’s a mesmer in the other team it’s not like the thief instantaneously gain the “consume plasma” skill).
Basilisk Venom.
Or, just use stealth.
- Runes of Lyssa does pretty much the same thing, with both upsides and downsides (it cleanse all conditions, is on a longer cd, it doesn’t require a hit etc, etc.)
Runes of Lyssa is also overpowered. Thieves typically run with 6 Runes of Lyssa as well, which gives thieves 2 means of acquiring ALL boons on short (35,45) second cooldowns.
In conclusion, to the one who said “If you were meant to have all boons in competitive play, don’t you think you’d be given an option other than stealing against a mesmer?” I’d like to suggest to check how Runes of Lyssa work.
If search worked I could probably pull up a dozen more threads just like it.
ya but the boons have a 50 sec cool down ! on the rune . added 5 sec
if u r a mesmer ever think about your skill arcane thievery . that will put a dent in that skill right away …. “counter attack”
the sigil that removes boons and null feild
mind stab the gs wep move
lol u have a boon rip on your one hand sword auto attack ! add boon rip sigil to
phantasmal disenchanter !
there might be more but u r telling me u have problems with to many boons !
o wait there is your shatter skill can remove boons !
signet of inspiration!
to tie it all to gather u can send all boons on u to your team ! stick close to a guard !
ill take it one step ferther with lyssa runes so u can get all boons than use the signet to give your team all the boons !
so if there is any class the thief gets all boons from the mesmer can handle it !
(edited by caveman.5840)
@OP: As a Mesmer, you shouldn’t be complaining about anything other than group support. Be quiet and hope ANET doesn’t realize that Mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game.
@OP: As a Mesmer, you shouldn’t be complaining about anything other than group support. Be quiet and hope ANET doesn’t realize that Mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game.
Why? Because 1v1 is one of the game modes?
What I don’t get is why it’s “Consume Plasma”. I could see that happen from Asura (if you had a random class vs race effect on steal).
But from a Mesmer? Not a clone, not a phantasms, not any confusion, +allboons? You know, exactly what Mesmers are known for? O.o
is this still even a arguement the mesmer has the most boon striping of any class ! next to the necromancer that can turn those boons in to conditions !
the mesmer can handle those boons the thief steals easy !
thiefs boon steal is a joke compared to the mesmers boon rips !
a mesmer can keep loads of boons off of u …. some r aoe boon rips not just null feild which is really good.
take a second look at your skills and traits u can almost spam boon rips …
yes i know what mesmers r know for but it does not mean a simple utility swap or what ever works for u . u can still cripple boons nice
(edited by caveman.5840)
is this still even a arguement the mesmer has the most boon striping of any class ! next to the necromancer that can turn those boons in to conditions !
Huh? This sounds like one of those “replied to the wrong thread”-moments. :P
@OP: As a Mesmer, you shouldn’t be complaining about anything other than group support. Be quiet and hope ANET doesn’t realize that Mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game.
Why? Because 1v1 is one of the game modes?
No 1v1 is not one of the game modes, which means that you shouldnt be complaining, 10 sec of boons isn’t alot at all when fighting in teams, mesmers have pu, should it be nerfed? Mesmers have high damaging phantasms, have you seen the dmg with these phantasms, they hit for 3-4k even when the other person has 2.8k armor. Mesmers also get great shatters, which used properly can probably take the thief down to 3-4k hp, so no the steal buff is not op.
If you are good enough you can always dodge.
Seems like a lot of people haven’t played a thief.
- Steal has to HIT in order to gain the desired ability. An evade or a block would prevent the thief from getting “consume plasma”.
- Steal has a range. It means a thief doesn’t ALWAYS have “consume plasma” when fighting mesmer, beucase it has to hit and in order to hit it requires the mesmer to be within the range (this means that if there’s a mesmer in the other team it’s not like the thief instantaneously gain the “consume plasma” skill).
Basilisk Venom.
Or, just use stealth.
- Runes of Lyssa does pretty much the same thing, with both upsides and downsides (it cleanse all conditions, is on a longer cd, it doesn’t require a hit etc, etc.)
Runes of Lyssa is also overpowered. Thieves typically run with 6 Runes of Lyssa as well, which gives thieves 2 means of acquiring ALL boons on short (35,45) second cooldowns.
In conclusion, to the one who said “If you were meant to have all boons in competitive play, don’t you think you’d be given an option other than stealing against a mesmer?” I’d like to suggest to check how Runes of Lyssa work.
If search worked I could probably pull up a dozen more threads just like it.
you’re assuming 1- that the thief has an enemy mesmer on demand that will just take the steal to the face, and 2- that the thief would rather save the steal to use on a mesmer than the dozens of other applications for survival/burst.
and therein lies the flaw in your argument.
But from a Mesmer? Not a clone, not a phantasms, not any confusion, +allboons? You know, exactly what Mesmers are known for? O.o
What good is a clone from a Mesmer? You have no traits to benefit from it, you have no shatters. It’s basically just a body block.
A phantasm is better, but not by much. Assuming you get a Phantasmal Rogue because that makes sense for a thief, you still don’t have a lot of the traits that make a Phantasm worth using.
Confusion could be cool but it’s kind of a weird condition because thief behavior maybe doesn’t work so well with it, I don’t know.
A boon spread is, on the other hand, useful for every thief.
@OP: As a Mesmer, you shouldn’t be complaining about anything other than group support. Be quiet and hope ANET doesn’t realize that Mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game.
Why? Because 1v1 is one of the game modes?
exactly. making a light armor class a 1v1 is terrible. we used to be strong in raids but all the nerfs and then the countless buffs to the other classes, destroyed viability for mesmers in anything other than 1v1.
make our class a medium armor then if we are duelists with lack of aoe.
back on topic though.
stability should not be a boon that u get from a mes as a mes has barely any access to it so it makes like no sense.
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
If you think that’s overpowered, you should see what they steal from rangers. Healing Seed Pod gives them an extra condi removal and a water field, which due to the nature of initiation the thief can often heal upwards of an additional 5k hp or spamming leap finishers. Combine that with well coordinated blind spam and the brief periods they are vulnerable they are still very tough to take down, even with ample stuns and CC usage. Unfortunately it’s near impossible to kill a good thief without very specific skill setups, which of course weaken you in combat ability against warriors and other popular classes you will encounter if you choose to run those setups.
Even still, I wouldn’t actually say steal is overpowered. A lot of the problems players experience with thieves are from the combination of how their skills function rather than the one or two. The more you familiarize yourself with those skills and the cool downs, the more possible it does become to counter. (Pro thieves will still be near impossible to take down, but average Joe and trash thieves aren’t going to ascend to skill tiers they haven’t achieved yet just on virtue of a class mechanic alone. If a good thief can’t take you down, consider that your victory.) If you can’t do anything about the problems steal poses, I recommend you look for strengthening yourself against them elsewhere. Ie. additional condition removal, traits like “Removes blind and poison on dodge roll”, etc minimize the effectiveness of their blinds (and their ability to reduce your heal effectiveness with poison). I know our classes traits are drastically different, but I’m sure you have some good condi removal traits and methods available to consider for dealing with the blinds at least.
Also consider, changes to your sigils and how you fight. Even though my character is not built to directly counter thieves, I do very well against them due to having dual hydromancy sigils. AoE chill is another very effective method of combating thieves, and there are other ways as well. With the upcoming balance patch, two handers will be able to be dual sigil’d, and on swap sigils will have their own unique icds. Consider what sigils cover your weak points best rather than going for whatever ups your damage the most or just grants you extra evades.
Honestly, I find mesmers far more difficult to deal with than thieves on average. But that’s mostly because my class mechanic(pets with malfunctioning AI and slow f2 skills) are easily exploited by moving targets, and mesmers just kite a lot more than most thieves do.
Ferguson’s Crossing server.
(edited by Detharos.3157)