Guild Wars 2

Total crap that good players will do just as well with any class. Elementalists are a waste of time right now in spvp. I re-rolled a thief in spvp and was facerolling in about 2 mins.

morrolan.9608:

DrakeWurrum.6049:

It’s… not at all irrelevant. “skill cap” has nothing to do with under/over-powered.

But thats what I’m saying, if you compare players of similar skill on other classes and Ele always comes out behind then they are unbalanced.

Fully disagree. What you’re saying is the equivalent of “That player died because he didn’t dodge. Therefore, the ability that killed him is OP.”

If players are bad, you cannot judge them in regards to class balance.

elchulo.3148:

Total crap that good players will do just as well with any class. Elementalists are a waste of time right now in spvp. I re-rolled a thief in spvp and was facerolling in about 2 mins.

That’s because Thieves aren’t hard to play, and most people are too dumb to know how to kill them.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

elchulo.3148:

Total crap that good players will do just as well with any class. Elementalists are a waste of time right now in spvp. I re-rolled a thief in spvp and was facerolling in about 2 mins.

That’s because Thieves aren’t hard to play, and most people are too dumb to know how to kill them.

All classes have skill to play, yes there are a lot of HS spammers in Spvp because they are current FoTM.
But when you come across a player who is skilled at the thieve class you just wont beat him as ele.
The damage and utility ( stealth in this case ) abilities they have access to just far surpasses ours – If you think your an elitist and can beat any thieve then good on you , but I doubt the thieves you have been playing against are any good at all

morrolan.9608:

Yukishiro.8792:

No. It means they’re hard to play. That doesn’t mean they’re underpowered when played decently. It certainly does mean a bad elementalist is underpowered compared to a bad warrior or guardian or ranger.

To me that says that the class is inherently underpowered, the fact that a good player can get past that limitation is pretty much irrelevant.

A bad Ele will probably lose to a bad warrior, but a good ele is on at least the same level as a good warrior.
Look at it this way…have you ever played Tekken?
If you have two people who have never played Tekken before, one chooses Law and one chooses Jack. 99.9% of the time, the one who chose Law will win. However! If you have a master Law player fighting a master Jack player, the Jack will win more often than the master Law. It’s because there are intricacies about the game that, when grasped, make the advantages that Law has (faster attacks, mostly) basically irrelevant.
I’m not saying this is how the Elementalist is, but I know that there is a point where the Elementalist is at least as good as, say, a warrior of the same skill level. The game hasn’t been out long enough to know this yet, but for all we know, the Master Ele may be the most valuable player in the game.

Pinkerton.5643:

morrolan.9608:

Yukishiro.8792:

No. It means they’re hard to play. That doesn’t mean they’re underpowered when played decently. It certainly does mean a bad elementalist is underpowered compared to a bad warrior or guardian or ranger.

To me that says that the class is inherently underpowered, the fact that a good player can get past that limitation is pretty much irrelevant.

A bad Ele will probably lose to a bad warrior, but a good ele is on at least the same level as a good warrior.
Look at it this way…have you ever played Tekken?
If you have two people who have never played Tekken before, one chooses Law and one chooses Jack. 99.9% of the time, the one who chose Law will win. However! If you have a master Law player fighting a master Jack player, the Jack will win more often than the master Law. It’s because there are intricacies about the game that, when grasped, make the advantages that Law has (faster attacks, mostly) basically irrelevant.
I’m not saying this is how the Elementalist is, but I know that there is a point where the Elementalist is at least as good as, say, a warrior of the same skill level. The game hasn’t been out long enough to know this yet, but for all we know, the Master Ele may be the most valuable player in the game.

The game has been out long enough, And while i think your comparison was an odd choice I get your point.

I’ve been doing sPvP alot lately ( I still get refused for tPvP a lot and i have come to accept this hopeing we will get fixed soon as tpvp is something i really wanted to experience ). Yea i can beat warriors, but only bad / average players, Yea i can beat thieves but only bad / average players again ( etc etc. )

I am not claiming to be a master of the class but when i verse a player of equal skill, i just wont beat them (engins, rangers and necro i feel ok with) but when a good warrior or rogue is on me, i cant shake them off and the damage is just to much to survive or out burst them down

They just nerfed Heartseeker, so “HS spammers” aren’t going to do nearly so hot as they have been.

to true! – its a good start , hopefully more fixes to come!

I haven’t heard any of this on my server (gate of madness) but after reading this thread I am rolling an elementalist right away. I love to play the class people consider to be the weakest and least durable in any mmo that I am in. Makes things more challenging and therefore more enjoyable for me. ymmv

Balraw.3196:

I haven’t heard any of this on my server (gate of madness) but after reading this thread I am rolling an elementalist right away. I love to play the class people consider to be the weakest and least durable in any mmo that I am in. Makes things more challenging and therefore more enjoyable for me. ymmv

The elementalist is my favourite class in GW2, but you do get annoyed when you get yourkitten whooped in sPvP and WvWvW.

ScoObyDoOx.7638:

Balraw.3196:

I haven’t heard any of this on my server (gate of madness) but after reading this thread I am rolling an elementalist right away. I love to play the class people consider to be the weakest and least durable in any mmo that I am in. Makes things more challenging and therefore more enjoyable for me. ymmv

The elementalist is my favourite class in GW2, but you do get annoyed when you get yourkitten whooped in sPvP and WvWvW.

Well I probably look at things a little different to many I imagine as I don’t mind loosing as long as its fun. In fact some of the most fun I have had in an mmo has been when I have lost a pvp fight/battle as I have been trying everything I have in my bag of tricks to turn the tide.

On the other hand some of the most boring has been when I have been in a group that is totally dominating as that is no challenge, no incentive to be inventive with your skills and therefore no fun for me.

As I said though ymmv depending on what sort of player you are and what you consider to be a fun experience (and we are all different in that respect)

A lot of it stems from people playing with staff elementalists. I did CM first with a staff ele and she was beyond useless. I asked her to switch to Scepter/Focus or Scepter/Dagger (I was using S/F) and she didn’t even have a scepter because she was “Staff only”

Those people are the ones that gives Elementalists a bad name.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Those people are the ones that gives Elementalists a bad name.

What the ones who want to play an elemental in a way that the game allows?. People need to remember, all weapons should be viable in all content.

If someone chooses to play with a certain weapon they should be able to play any content with that weapon.

This has happened to me on several occasions. Can you really blame those who don’t want an elementalist in their group? Just take a guardian instead. 1 guardian = 3 elementalists in terms of damage and support capabilities even on a bad day.

While I understand the arguments made on skill triumphing the drawbacks in a class there is an inherent flaw in the argument. Elementalist could be fine in a player who has mastered the intricacies being able to do fine in regular content, either pve or pvp. But the problem is that you have to master the class just to be “competent”. If you haven’t mastered the class you will die often before you even get out of your teens pve wise, pvp we might as well call cleanup after other classes get done with you.

Now take another class like say the engineer. I have gotten to 38 and definitely haven’t mastered the class quite yet. But I can still progress without to much difficulty. But here is the kicker, i’m competent NOW without having mastered the class. When I do master the class then I will inherently be ahead of the elementalist no matter what since they had to master the class just to be considered competent. Now they will lag behind the classes that have more inherent power just because they have no more to give.

If you have to master a class just to be able to survive basic low level content, which as an elementalist you do, then how exactly is that NOT underpowered? Even if you want a challenge, why beat your head against a wall for hours when you can play a more fun and accessible class? That isn’t fortitude or skill when you master a broken class it is masochism. If wanting to play a game for actual fun makes me a ‘baddie’ or ‘kitten’ then i’ll just have to live with that as I rip your avatar a new one.

Pinkerton.5643:

morrolan.9608:

Yukishiro.8792:

No. It means they’re hard to play. That doesn’t mean they’re underpowered when played decently. It certainly does mean a bad elementalist is underpowered compared to a bad warrior or guardian or ranger.

To me that says that the class is inherently underpowered, the fact that a good player can get past that limitation is pretty much irrelevant.

A bad Ele will probably lose to a bad warrior, but a good ele is on at least the same level as a good warrior.
Look at it this way…have you ever played Tekken?
If you have two people who have never played Tekken before, one chooses Law and one chooses Jack. 99.9% of the time, the one who chose Law will win. However! If you have a master Law player fighting a master Jack player, the Jack will win more often than the master Law. It’s because there are intricacies about the game that, when grasped, make the advantages that Law has (faster attacks, mostly) basically irrelevant.
I’m not saying this is how the Elementalist is, but I know that there is a point where the Elementalist is at least as good as, say, a warrior of the same skill level. The game hasn’t been out long enough to know this yet, but for all we know, the Master Ele may be the most valuable player in the game.

This is absolutely wrong.
I came here from soulcalibur5 (aka tekkencalibur -.-) being in that game at good levels for almost 7 years…(knowing all framedata etc)

I really loved a bottom tier character, the worst of all…and having lot of experience i could do really well with him despite beating other high level players was really hard if not impossible sometimes.
Yet few elitist players continued to say the character was fine and i wasn t good enough……(until i single handedly beat them with a “dumb” character simply exploiting weaknesses they refused to discuss answering with the same void arguments*).

Other excuse was “the game have just been released”……

result: the game is now almopst deserted because people don t want balance and prefers using the same 2-3 excuses that can be used for any argument…..

So if now something doesn t work it have to be fixed with what we know NOW and not keeped as it is because we could not know something…

If something other will be discovered making ele OP it will be fixed accordingly….nerfing is often easier than buffing.

*on the other hand in that game dumb characters are those with difficult execution that once grasped can kill you without even looking at the monitor…
So execution should never reward a character much because in the long run any monkey can press buttons in the right order.

i play an elementalist myself. I mainly play it in pve, i did try it in pvp but it felt a bit underpowered in pvp. The point about this is that it’s very hard to make a good trait line for damage on elementalist. I always have prefered to play supports/healers in other mmo-rpgs, so i end up playing support ele. For support ele i have a very nice trait line and it works out very well to support, but at the point i’m doing things solo i have the feeling i lack damage. Like if i go to orr i always try to do that with a companion, a few days ago for example i went there with my guild leader who is a ranger. He also did have some problems with orr because of his pet acting like a agroshield for other players, but with 2 of us it went really well in orr, we did not die while i’m like best ninja puller EU if i’m just messing around a bit (if i’m going serious i’m not best ninja puller EU). So we did end up with 10 mobs on us everytime or so, great fun. So pve wise ele is viable on support, i did not really try damage or control. But i did notice it’s really hard to make a damage traitline. And about leaving eles out in pve dungeons, i go explorebles without even check the proffecion setup in most cases, however in some exploreble it really helps to have cetrain proffecions that are dedicated to a cetrain roll because they make it way easier, but that does not mean there a required. So don’t take ppl with you in pve because of their proffecion is just plain bs. At the other side i have to admit i can understand most pvp team don’t prefere a ele in their team atm, but that should just be a point of balance, if that is needed indeed. Since a other option is just that biggest part of the communty is building ele wrong for pvp.

LordByron.8369:

Pinkerton.5643:

morrolan.9608:

Yukishiro.8792:

No. It means they’re hard to play. That doesn’t mean they’re underpowered when played decently. It certainly does mean a bad elementalist is underpowered compared to a bad warrior or guardian or ranger.

To me that says that the class is inherently underpowered, the fact that a good player can get past that limitation is pretty much irrelevant.

A bad Ele will probably lose to a bad warrior, but a good ele is on at least the same level as a good warrior.
Look at it this way…have you ever played Tekken?
If you have two people who have never played Tekken before, one chooses Law and one chooses Jack. 99.9% of the time, the one who chose Law will win. However! If you have a master Law player fighting a master Jack player, the Jack will win more often than the master Law. It’s because there are intricacies about the game that, when grasped, make the advantages that Law has (faster attacks, mostly) basically irrelevant.
I’m not saying this is how the Elementalist is, but I know that there is a point where the Elementalist is at least as good as, say, a warrior of the same skill level. The game hasn’t been out long enough to know this yet, but for all we know, the Master Ele may be the most valuable player in the game.

This is absolutely wrong.
I came here from soulcalibur5 (aka tekkencalibur -.-) being in that game at good levels for almost 7 years…(knowing all framedata etc)

I really loved a bottom tier character, the worst of all…and having lot of experience i could do really well with him despite beating other high level players was really hard if not impossible sometimes.
Yet few elitist players continued to say the character was fine and i wasn t good enough……(until i single handedly beat them with a “dumb” character simply exploiting weaknesses they refused to discuss answering with the same void arguments*).

Other excuse was “the game have just been released”……

result: the game is now almopst deserted because people don t want balance and prefers using the same 2-3 excuses that can be used for any argument…..

So if now something doesn t work it have to be fixed with what we know NOW and not keeped as it is because we could not know something…

If something other will be discovered making ele OP it will be fixed accordingly….nerfing is often easier than buffing.

*on the other hand in that game dumb characters are those with difficult execution that once grasped can kill you without even looking at the monitor…
So execution should never reward a character much because in the long run any monkey can press buttons in the right order.

I feel as tho you read my mind and then actually tuned it into English – thank you

Roziel.5720:

While I understand the arguments made on skill triumphing the drawbacks in a class there is an inherent flaw in the argument. Elementalist could be fine in a player who has mastered the intricacies being able to do fine in regular content, either pve or pvp. But the problem is that you have to master the class just to be “competent”. If you haven’t mastered the class you will die often before you even get out of your teens pve wise, pvp we might as well call cleanup after other classes get done with you.

Now take another class like say the engineer. I have gotten to 38 and definitely haven’t mastered the class quite yet. But I can still progress without to much difficulty. But here is the kicker, i’m competent NOW without having mastered the class. When I do master the class then I will inherently be ahead of the elementalist no matter what since they had to master the class just to be considered competent. Now they will lag behind the classes that have more inherent power just because they have no more to give.

If you have to master a class just to be able to survive basic low level content, which as an elementalist you do, then how exactly is that NOT underpowered? Even if you want a challenge, why beat your head against a wall for hours when you can play a more fun and accessible class? That isn’t fortitude or skill when you master a broken class it is masochism. If wanting to play a game for actual fun makes me a ‘baddie’ or ‘kitten’ then i’ll just have to live with that as I rip your avatar a new one.

A couple things. First, you don’t have to absolutely master the class with no room for improvement in order to be competent with Ele. It just takes a higher level of skill than most other classes do.
Second, the skill curves are very different. After becoming competent with most professions in this game, the effectiveness level remains relatively flat all the way to profession mastery. With elementalists, on the other hand, after competence has been reached, effectiveness shoots up at a ridiculously high speed and puts them at the same effective level as other professions.
This picture is what I’m trying to get at. What happens above the line of competence, I’m not so sure on. The curves aren’t going to be constant in the same fashion as below the line, so don’t start flaming on something dumb like that. At some point, though, the effectiveness of the elementalist begins to match that of other professions.

Roziel.5720:

While I understand the arguments made on skill triumphing the drawbacks in a class there is an inherent flaw in the argument. Elementalist could be fine in a player who has mastered the intricacies being able to do fine in regular content, either pve or pvp. But the problem is that you have to master the class just to be “competent”. If you haven’t mastered the class you will die often before you even get out of your teens pve wise, pvp we might as well call cleanup after other classes get done with you.

Now take another class like say the engineer. I have gotten to 38 and definitely haven’t mastered the class quite yet. But I can still progress without to much difficulty. But here is the kicker, i’m competent NOW without having mastered the class. When I do master the class then I will inherently be ahead of the elementalist no matter what since they had to master the class just to be considered competent. Now they will lag behind the classes that have more inherent power just because they have no more to give.

If you have to master a class just to be able to survive basic low level content, which as an elementalist you do, then how exactly is that NOT underpowered? Even if you want a challenge, why beat your head against a wall for hours when you can play a more fun and accessible class? That isn’t fortitude or skill when you master a broken class it is masochism. If wanting to play a game for actual fun makes me a ‘baddie’ or ‘kitten’ then i’ll just have to live with that as I rip your avatar a new one.

Some people like being challenged, and some people like being lazy.
Just like some poeple like the statisfaction of beating the dog **** out of someone with a “broken class” and some poeple like to roll “FOTM 1 button iwin classes”.

In the end, if your playing the harder of the classes to master, your getting the most knowledge. Which would only be a bad thing if you had short term memory loss, or are just flat out bad.

Weapon X.5163:

Roziel.5720:

While I understand the arguments made on skill triumphing the drawbacks in a class there is an inherent flaw in the argument. Elementalist could be fine in a player who has mastered the intricacies being able to do fine in regular content, either pve or pvp. But the problem is that you have to master the class just to be “competent”. If you haven’t mastered the class you will die often before you even get out of your teens pve wise, pvp we might as well call cleanup after other classes get done with you.

Now take another class like say the engineer. I have gotten to 38 and definitely haven’t mastered the class quite yet. But I can still progress without to much difficulty. But here is the kicker, i’m competent NOW without having mastered the class. When I do master the class then I will inherently be ahead of the elementalist no matter what since they had to master the class just to be considered competent. Now they will lag behind the classes that have more inherent power just because they have no more to give.

If you have to master a class just to be able to survive basic low level content, which as an elementalist you do, then how exactly is that NOT underpowered? Even if you want a challenge, why beat your head against a wall for hours when you can play a more fun and accessible class? That isn’t fortitude or skill when you master a broken class it is masochism. If wanting to play a game for actual fun makes me a ‘baddie’ or ‘kitten’ then i’ll just have to live with that as I rip your avatar a new one.

Some people like being challenged, and some people like being lazy.
Just like some poeple like the statisfaction of beating the dog **** out of someone with a “broken class” and some poeple like to roll “FOTM 1 button iwin classes”.

In the end, if your playing the harder of the classes to master, your getting the most knowledge. Which would only be a bad thing if you had short term memory loss, or are just flat out bad.

You missed the point, if you have to master the class just to do what others don’t have to work to do then you are already starting behind the eight-ball. You can be as intricate as you want, but as it stands even the most mobile weapon combo of D/D means if you mess up even slightly you will either be mostly or all dead. Bottom line.

If you like beating yourself up just to play on an average level then by all means go for it. But at the end of the day it is still subpar to other classes. I can think of no better way then to have Indiana Jones demonstrate how other classes see your ‘learn-to-play’ class.

Pinkerton.5643:

Roziel.5720:

While I understand the arguments made on skill triumphing the drawbacks in a class there is an inherent flaw in the argument. Elementalist could be fine in a player who has mastered the intricacies being able to do fine in regular content, either pve or pvp. But the problem is that you have to master the class just to be “competent”. If you haven’t mastered the class you will die often before you even get out of your teens pve wise, pvp we might as well call cleanup after other classes get done with you.

Now take another class like say the engineer. I have gotten to 38 and definitely haven’t mastered the class quite yet. But I can still progress without to much difficulty. But here is the kicker, i’m competent NOW without having mastered the class. When I do master the class then I will inherently be ahead of the elementalist no matter what since they had to master the class just to be considered competent. Now they will lag behind the classes that have more inherent power just because they have no more to give.

If you have to master a class just to be able to survive basic low level content, which as an elementalist you do, then how exactly is that NOT underpowered? Even if you want a challenge, why beat your head against a wall for hours when you can play a more fun and accessible class? That isn’t fortitude or skill when you master a broken class it is masochism. If wanting to play a game for actual fun makes me a ‘baddie’ or ‘kitten’ then i’ll just have to live with that as I rip your avatar a new one.

A couple things. First, you don’t have to absolutely master the class with no room for improvement in order to be competent with Ele. It just takes a higher level of skill than most other classes do.
Second, the skill curves are very different. After becoming competent with most professions in this game, the effectiveness level remains relatively flat all the way to profession mastery. With elementalists, on the other hand, after competence has been reached, effectiveness shoots up at a ridiculously high speed and puts them at the same effective level as other professions.
This picture is what I’m trying to get at. What happens above the line of competence, I’m not so sure on. The curves aren’t going to be constant in the same fashion as below the line, so don’t start flaming on something dumb like that. At some point, though, the effectiveness of the elementalist begins to match that of other professions.

ahahaha, well , hello there.
aren’t you the guy that was doing soooo well on elementalist that the community actually asked for some capture of your awesome work? I guess still waiting for it.
Your post sounds like the speech of a sales manager that actually has no idea about what he’s selling and what’s the market segment he’s after. But his powerpoint presentation- and in your case, you nice graph – actually show millions or billions in profit and how the masses will flock to the product he’s trying to put on market. Want real life examples? Nokia N8, Blackberry tablet, etc.
Spitting out words without real substance, in sentences that no one can really contradict because they don’t have any real substance is something I see very often and I was actually expecting from trolls sniffing around on this forum

The damage feels about on par with a necro, the thing is necros have Death Shroud, they can go completely invincible all the time, in fact the cool own on it is super short. I know the ele has the earth bubble, but that is only with a focus? (not sure off hand)

I honestly think eles need either a damage boost or a survivability boost, or some traits put in to boost dps, it Is harder to build for dps as a poster said above. I also feel like the eles utilities skills could use a little work as well. We have a signet that gives our attacks a chance to apply conditions (which other professions have this ability normally without having to use a utility slot for.

Ursu.4163:

Pinkerton.5643:

Roziel.5720:

While I understand the arguments made on skill triumphing the drawbacks in a class there is an inherent flaw in the argument. Elementalist could be fine in a player who has mastered the intricacies being able to do fine in regular content, either pve or pvp. But the problem is that you have to master the class just to be “competent”. If you haven’t mastered the class you will die often before you even get out of your teens pve wise, pvp we might as well call cleanup after other classes get done with you.

Now take another class like say the engineer. I have gotten to 38 and definitely haven’t mastered the class quite yet. But I can still progress without to much difficulty. But here is the kicker, i’m competent NOW without having mastered the class. When I do master the class then I will inherently be ahead of the elementalist no matter what since they had to master the class just to be considered competent. Now they will lag behind the classes that have more inherent power just because they have no more to give.

If you have to master a class just to be able to survive basic low level content, which as an elementalist you do, then how exactly is that NOT underpowered? Even if you want a challenge, why beat your head against a wall for hours when you can play a more fun and accessible class? That isn’t fortitude or skill when you master a broken class it is masochism. If wanting to play a game for actual fun makes me a ‘baddie’ or ‘kitten’ then i’ll just have to live with that as I rip your avatar a new one.

A couple things. First, you don’t have to absolutely master the class with no room for improvement in order to be competent with Ele. It just takes a higher level of skill than most other classes do.
Second, the skill curves are very different. After becoming competent with most professions in this game, the effectiveness level remains relatively flat all the way to profession mastery. With elementalists, on the other hand, after competence has been reached, effectiveness shoots up at a ridiculously high speed and puts them at the same effective level as other professions.
This picture is what I’m trying to get at. What happens above the line of competence, I’m not so sure on. The curves aren’t going to be constant in the same fashion as below the line, so don’t start flaming on something dumb like that. At some point, though, the effectiveness of the elementalist begins to match that of other professions.

ahahaha, well , hello there.
aren’t you the guy that was doing soooo well on elementalist that the community actually asked for some capture of your awesome work? I guess still waiting for it.
Your post sounds like the speech of a sales manager that actually has no idea about what he’s selling and what’s the market segment he’s after. But his powerpoint presentation- and in your case, you nice graph – actually show millions or billions in profit and how the masses will flock to the product he’s trying to put on market. Want real life examples? Nokia N8, Blackberry tablet, etc.
Spitting out words without real substance, in sentences that no one can really contradict because they don’t have any real substance is something I see very often and I was actually expecting from trolls sniffing around on this forum

Um…what? Never claimed to be awesome at the elementalist. If anyone wanted capture of my “work” they would be in for a long wait since I wouldn’t know really about how to get it. I have played it, I am still trying to play it since I WANT to enjoy it, but pretty much giving it up for the moment as a lost cause. If I have claimed to be anything it is competent as an engineer which I am. But even at that I haven’t “Mastered the class”.

So basically…what are you talking about and where can i get the stuff you are smoking?

Sharpe.1485:

Yukishiro.8792:

A good player on an ele will do about as well as a good player on another class.

No, it won’t. And I could write a nice long post on all the reasons why it isn’t so, but explaining something so obvious to people who refuse to understand, would be like trying to explain what blue is to a blind person.

I agree with Yukishiro. Once you completely understand your play style and couple it up with how you build your character, you will be a good player. In PvE dungeons and sPvP I get invites consistently because other online players know the benefits I can bring to the table.

The only thing wrong about our profession is the fact that some traits don’t function as stated in the tool tips. Which can be easily rectified.

Roziel.5720:

Ursu.4163:

Pinkerton.5643:

Roziel.5720:

While I understand the arguments made on skill triumphing the drawbacks in a class there is an inherent flaw in the argument. Elementalist could be fine in a player who has mastered the intricacies being able to do fine in regular content, either pve or pvp. But the problem is that you have to master the class just to be “competent”. If you haven’t mastered the class you will die often before you even get out of your teens pve wise, pvp we might as well call cleanup after other classes get done with you.

Now take another class like say the engineer. I have gotten to 38 and definitely haven’t mastered the class quite yet. But I can still progress without to much difficulty. But here is the kicker, i’m competent NOW without having mastered the class. When I do master the class then I will inherently be ahead of the elementalist no matter what since they had to master the class just to be considered competent. Now they will lag behind the classes that have more inherent power just because they have no more to give.

If you have to master a class just to be able to survive basic low level content, which as an elementalist you do, then how exactly is that NOT underpowered? Even if you want a challenge, why beat your head against a wall for hours when you can play a more fun and accessible class? That isn’t fortitude or skill when you master a broken class it is masochism. If wanting to play a game for actual fun makes me a ‘baddie’ or ‘kitten’ then i’ll just have to live with that as I rip your avatar a new one.

A couple things. First, you don’t have to absolutely master the class with no room for improvement in order to be competent with Ele. It just takes a higher level of skill than most other classes do.
Second, the skill curves are very different. After becoming competent with most professions in this game, the effectiveness level remains relatively flat all the way to profession mastery. With elementalists, on the other hand, after competence has been reached, effectiveness shoots up at a ridiculously high speed and puts them at the same effective level as other professions.
This picture is what I’m trying to get at. What happens above the line of competence, I’m not so sure on. The curves aren’t going to be constant in the same fashion as below the line, so don’t start flaming on something dumb like that. At some point, though, the effectiveness of the elementalist begins to match that of other professions.

ahahaha, well , hello there.
aren’t you the guy that was doing soooo well on elementalist that the community actually asked for some capture of your awesome work? I guess still waiting for it.
Your post sounds like the speech of a sales manager that actually has no idea about what he’s selling and what’s the market segment he’s after. But his powerpoint presentation- and in your case, you nice graph – actually show millions or billions in profit and how the masses will flock to the product he’s trying to put on market. Want real life examples? Nokia N8, Blackberry tablet, etc.
Spitting out words without real substance, in sentences that no one can really contradict because they don’t have any real substance is something I see very often and I was actually expecting from trolls sniffing around on this forum

Um…what? Never claimed to be awesome at the elementalist. If anyone wanted capture of my “work” they would be in for a long wait since I wouldn’t know really about how to get it. I have played it, I am still trying to play it since I WANT to enjoy it, but pretty much giving it up for the moment as a lost cause. If I have claimed to be anything it is competent as an engineer which I am. But even at that I haven’t “Mastered the class”.

So basically…what are you talking about and where can i get the stuff you are smoking?

He was talking about Pinkerton, not you.

Odd, I can’t quote people for some reason. Anyway,

Parrk, I have to disagree with you when you say that Gw2 content isn’t difficult.

Compared to what most have experienced in other MMOs, this game is mega hard. That being said, it is in NO way impossible and you are completely right when you say (paraphrasing) that it’s the player and not the class.

But to say that the content isn’t difficult isn’t quite spot on.

When playing with an elementalist gives the idea that general pve is hard, and playing with all other professions gives the idea that general pve is easy, then the problem is with the class, not the player.

Also, I’m going to shock a few people here, but: Elementalist is not that hard to play. “Wow, did I just read what I did? This guy said that the Elementalist is not that hard to play.”

Oh, it is hard to master, but not more than a few other professions, where people have been getting excellent results for some time. Elementalists require kiting, timing and correct attunement switching. And memorizing its skills, which gets second nature after putting a few hours into it. The Mesmer also requires timing, kiting, and a great deal of illusion management and shatter decision-making, and even more so, the Mesmer is harder for a beginner to grasp than the Elementalist. And yet, its already gaining a lot of popularity over pvp’s meta, unlike our poor Ellie.

I have played a Mesmer for about a few hours, and I have leveled my Elementalist to 80. I get better results in pvp with Mesmer, and that’s not even comparable. I started playing pve with a Mesmer, and it is also difficult, and it also requires some degree of mastery, yet once you “get it”, it’s so much easier than with an Elementalist.

This idea that the means to master the Ellie are extremely obscure to us all, and that we are all noobs who haven’t found the dodge button yet, is a naive accusation.

The Elementalist is underpowered. Once it gets its deserved buff, most of us will be properly rewarded for our effort, just like good players from other hard-to-master professions are already getting the wins they deserve.

Nice points by everyone. I personally would like only two changes to the ele.

A 15-20% buff to fire damage and for air skills to attack/recharge 15-20% faster. Both these elements are about damage. Fire is the brute aoe while air is single target and crits.

Water and Earth I think are fine.

ele is a bit underpowered in pvp but its definitely 1 of the best pve classes , anyone who turns you down is a noob

DiogoSilva.7089:

When playing with an elementalist gives the idea that general pve is hard, and playing with all other professions gives the idea that general pve is easy, then the problem is with the class, not the player.

Also, I’m going to shock a few people here, but: Elementalist is not that hard to play. “Wow, did I just read what I did? This guy said that the Elementalist is not that hard to play.”

Oh, it is hard to master, but not more than a few other professions, where people have been getting excellent results for some time. Elementalists require kiting, timing and correct attunement switching. And memorizing its skills, which gets second nature after putting a few hours into it. The Mesmer also requires timing, kiting, and a great deal of illusion management and shatter decision-making, and even more so, the Mesmer is harder for a beginner to grasp than the Elementalist. And yet, its already gaining a lot of popularity over pvp’s meta, unlike our poor Ellie.

I have played a Mesmer for about a few hours, and I have leveled my Elementalist to 80. I get better results in pvp with Mesmer, and that’s not even comparable. I started playing pve with a Mesmer, and it is also difficult, and it also requires some degree of mastery, yet once you “get it”, it’s so much easier than with an Elementalist.

This idea that the means to master the Ellie are extremely obscure to us all, and that we are all noobs who haven’t found the dodge button yet, is a naive accusation.

The Elementalist is underpowered. Once it gets its deserved buff, most of us will be properly rewarded for our effort, just like good players from other hard-to-master professions are already getting the wins they deserve.

Here’s somebody else’s input about what happened when he switched from his Mesmer to his Ele:

Rerolling from Mesmer to Elementalist. WOW?

If ele is provisionally ok in sPvP, because it has tools to deal with situations it’s certainly not ok in PvE, especially solo PvE. Lackluster damage even when going full glass cannon coupled with insane damage you take makes PvE quite unenjoyable (more work for less effect). If I spec for defence, I can take on more mobs, but hey, it also takes a lot longer to kill them (if I compare to other classes).

Then I see an engi I run with, properly specced, do 6k crits on n1 skill, it’s AOE, it’s got range + he still has a ton of utilities and I think to myself…yeh, great. Then I hear glasscannon warriors on TS woopwhooping about 25k+ HBs, 14k+ killshots, 11k rapidfires (and those are the lowball figures I think, I try to ignore them :P). Non-berserker specced guardians AOE critting 5k+. Thieves…oh well, rather not go there.

Anyway, while I can live with the damage I’m getting I’m certainly not happy with the HP pool or the defence. Offence vs long term defence (oh sure I can use all my attunements+utilities and I’m a god for few seconds but it’s fairly short term) is bad – but the problem that arises is sPvP vs PvE vs WvW balance, if you buff ele for PvE than you run in to sPvP balance problems . Our guild focus is WvW and I often need to roam independently of the zerg and fight 5vX and also fight in zerg v zerg and there short term defence doesn’t cut it, if I spec for lots of survivability, then pretty much every other class can do my role better, be it damage or support.

tldr; WTB necro health pool :P

if you can use all your attunements + utilities then you should have no problem playng ele glass cannon and being useful.

My main is warrior but i played ele on beta and stuff (and i guess you could say that i have more pvp rounds on ele) but still every time i log my ele i get #1 on spvp. 90% of the games be it tournaments or just random games , if i play ele then im #1 on points. Because im everywhere and i do everything, still, im better on my warrior but that may be because my role is entirely diffr on my warrior and maybe its just what my team needs to be complete. Anyway, they dont look down on my ele cuz theyve seen the mayhem its capable of unleashing

I wouldnt take an elementalist to a dungeon and yet i am a level 80 elementalist. In our current state, we dont deserve to be there frankly. So i, like the others am sitting and hoping for a major buff.

We get poor hit points, mobs like to target us in preference to other players and our damage is sub par. I`d rather take a class with better hit points and which inexplicably does more damage and has better armour….ie any of them.

Things are definitely bad when groups advertise “need 2 more no ele” and arenanet must act now this is the case.

DiogoSilva.7089:

This idea that the means to master the Ellie are extremely obscure to us all, and that we are all noobs who haven’t found the dodge button yet, is a naive accusation.

The Elementalist is underpowered. Once it gets its deserved buff, most of us will be properly rewarded for our effort, just like good players from other hard-to-master professions are already getting the wins they deserve.

After putting in a few more days with the class my conclusion is that we are both right. Elementalists do have a higher skill floor than most other classes (mesmer is another one with a higher skill floor), but they are also (slightly) underpowered even when played correctly.

This suggests what ele need is both a small overall boost but also a shift down the skill spectrum such that even more marginal players can get decent results the same way they can on a warrior or guardian or ranger or thief.

Pinkerton, the problem with that graph is that no one has concretely proven that the output of an elementalist ever actually surpasses that of a warrior. All we’ve been able to prove so far is that any player capable of playing an elementalist at a level of competency will be able to excel at any other profession. We don’t know that the intersection on that graph even exists, and that’s why it’s possible that elementalists are underpowered.

Well good eles tend to beat good warriors. Although that says little about the overall balance of the two professions.

not for dungeons since i go moslty with guild mates but for spvp its rly rly rare someone to ask for ele

we are not underpowered we just crit for 2-3k max with slow cast spells while warriors crit over 10k for eg sounds fair since we got 5-6k less hp and ofc paper armor

This is NOT an elementalist specific issue (though it’s adorable how many of you try make it sound that way).

This is usually coming from players who cannot comprehend the fact that GW2 doesn’t have a designated tanker/healer. They also reject players who are on their first run. This is nothing new, and has always been expected.