Guild Wars 2

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

BlackBeard.2873:

Sadrien.3470:

phantaram is the only tourney elementalist palyer I know of that actually runs that build, denshee and other great eles run d/d or d/f for these reasons and phantaram runs builds like these over freshair for the same reasons ( atleast part of the time).

Just to clarify, Phanta never ran fresh air in an actual tournament, b/c fresh air is not tournament viable at the highest level. Zoose used to run it sometimes, but would readily admit it was better for his team to run Mes or thief.

When it comes to the proposed 10% crit chance instead of zephyr’s speed, I agree it would absolutely be an improvement. If they REALLY insist that it be movement related, take a page out of their engineer playbook (with robolegs) and have swiftness give +10% or +5% movement speed to swiftness while in air. At least then it wouldn’t be 100% worthless.

Sorry abotu not clarifying that he doesn’t actually run it in tourneys, I know he does run it when solo a lot but I don’t follow things other than the WTS so I never know if people run their alternate builds in the ToL or other community tourneys.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

I didn’t say bolt to the heart is abismally low ( I never said that or anything similar, my comments on abismally low referred to my 10% crit Chance while in air attunement, I’d you read my posts you would know this.)… your misinterpreting everything I say. No point in having this discussion over and over again because you won’t ever realise what I actually wrote… even after I have clarified it multiple times.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Edits: I think you meant OwA and my trait granting 10% crit chance while in air because my only comment for bolt to the heart was that it was too low for a GM.

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Edits: I think you meant OwA and my trait granting 10% crit chance while in air because my only comment for bolt to the heart was that it was too low for a GM.

Wtf seriously. I said several times I was talking about BTTH and now you’re saying you talked about your proposed trait to be abyssmally low? And I’ve stated million comments back that they’re changing the numbers of BTTH.

You were the one saying that Phanta uses One with air(You said Zephyr’s speed but ye) instead of the trait, so the only logical trait you could be talking about is BTTH.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Edits: I think you meant OwA and my trait granting 10% crit chance while in air because my only comment for bolt to the heart was that it was too low for a GM.

Wtf seriously. I said several times I was talking about BTTH and now you’re saying you talked about your proposed trait to be abyssmally low? And I’ve stated million comments back that they’re changing the numbers of BTTH.

You were the one saying that Phanta uses One with air(You said Zephyr’s speed but ye) instead of the trait, so the only logical trait you could be talking about is BTTH.

This was in comparison damage between 10% crit chance and btth to compare wether or not OwA was a stronger minor trait than 10% crit chance.

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Edits: I think you meant OwA and my trait granting 10% crit chance while in air because my only comment for bolt to the heart was that it was too low for a GM.

Wtf seriously. I said several times I was talking about BTTH and now you’re saying you talked about your proposed trait to be abyssmally low? And I’ve stated million comments back that they’re changing the numbers of BTTH.

You were the one saying that Phanta uses One with air(You said Zephyr’s speed but ye) instead of the trait, so the only logical trait you could be talking about is BTTH.

This was in comparison damage between 10% crit chance and btth to compare wether or not OwA was a stronger minor trait than 10% crit chance.

Ok, go and figure out what traits ele has. One with air is not a minor trait.

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Your math is wrong here, if 100%of your damage comes from air it’s 5% therefore it is abismally low through the lenses of mathematics.

What? If 100% of your damage came from air, it would be 10% dmg modifier. Seeing as fresh air spends and therefore does damage in other attunements, I estimated reastically it could be around 3-5% of damage increase. Also, you were the one who suggested this trait.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Your math is wrong here, if 100%of your damage comes from air it’s 5% therefore it is abismally low through the lenses of mathematics.

What? If 100% of your damage came from air, it would be 10% dmg modifier. Seeing as fresh air spends and therefore does damage in other attunements, I estimated reastically it could be around 3-5% of damage increase. Also, you were the one who suggested this trait.

A 10% chance to gain a critical damage bonus ( assuming your crit damage is at 200%) is actually a 5% gain.

And I know I suggested it, you and dadnir both appear to believe it is too strong or a bad choice.

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Your math is wrong here, if 100%of your damage comes from air it’s 5% therefore it is abismally low through the lenses of mathematics.

What? If 100% of your damage came from air, it would be 10% dmg modifier. Seeing as fresh air spends and therefore does damage in other attunements, I estimated reastically it could be around 3-5% of damage increase. Also, you were the one who suggested this trait.

A 10% chance to gain a critical damage bonus ( assuming your crit damage is at 200%) is actually a 5% gain.

And I know I suggested it, you and dadnir both appear to believe it is too strong or a bad choice.

Sigh. Without 10% crit
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + Critical Chance * ( Critical Damage – 1 ) )
AD = BD * (1 + 0,50 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1,50 > Average damage output higher 50% higher than base.
With 10% higher crit chance
AD = BD * (1 + 0,60 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1.,60 > Average damage output 60% higher than base.

60-50 = 10 > 10% damage increase

(Data from 26006 fresh air build)

No, I said I don’t like the trait and would rather if they came up with something else.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Your math is wrong here, if 100%of your damage comes from air it’s 5% therefore it is abismally low through the lenses of mathematics.

What? If 100% of your damage came from air, it would be 10% dmg modifier. Seeing as fresh air spends and therefore does damage in other attunements, I estimated reastically it could be around 3-5% of damage increase. Also, you were the one who suggested this trait.

A 10% chance to gain a critical damage bonus ( assuming your crit damage is at 200%) is actually a 5% gain.

And I know I suggested it, you and dadnir both appear to believe it is too strong or a bad choice.

Sigh. Without 10% crit
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + Critical Chance * ( Critical Damage – 1 ) )
AD = BD * (1 + 0,50 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1,50 > Average damage output higher 50% higher than base.
With 10% higher crit chance
AD = BD * (1 + 0,60 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1.,60 > Average damage output 60% higher than base.

60-50 = 10 > 10% damage increase

(Data from 26006 fresh air build)

No, I said I don’t like the trait and would rather if they came up with something else.

Ok I will change this for you. May my suggestion appease your endless posting.

Edit: you have any suggestions for a balanced and theme fitting trait ?

Edit 2: also your comparing the gain from base not from 1.5

I believe your math should be .1/1.5 = 1/15

1 = x
15=100
X = 6.666

If roughly 50% of your damage occurs in air this is a 3.333% damage gain relative to not having this trait.
Therefore it’s basically the same as btth and my comment on OwA being considered better by phantaram is still relevant for the concerns of dadnir.
This is how damage mods are compared btw, they are not comparative to the base but your avg damage w/o that damage modifier.

2thousand views, is one of them an anet employee???? If anyone at anet has read this please answer me.

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Your math is wrong here, if 100%of your damage comes from air it’s 5% therefore it is abismally low through the lenses of mathematics.

What? If 100% of your damage came from air, it would be 10% dmg modifier. Seeing as fresh air spends and therefore does damage in other attunements, I estimated reastically it could be around 3-5% of damage increase. Also, you were the one who suggested this trait.

A 10% chance to gain a critical damage bonus ( assuming your crit damage is at 200%) is actually a 5% gain.

And I know I suggested it, you and dadnir both appear to believe it is too strong or a bad choice.

Sigh. Without 10% crit
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + Critical Chance * ( Critical Damage – 1 ) )
AD = BD * (1 + 0,50 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1,50 > Average damage output higher 50% higher than base.
With 10% higher crit chance
AD = BD * (1 + 0,60 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1.,60 > Average damage output 60% higher than base.

60-50 = 10 > 10% damage increase

(Data from 26006 fresh air build)

No, I said I don’t like the trait and would rather if they came up with something else.

Ok I will change this for you. May my suggestion appease your endless posting.

Edit: you have any suggestions for a balanced and theme fitting trait ?

Edit 2: also your comparing the gain from base not from 1.5

I believe your math should be .1/1.5 = 1/15

1 = x
15=100
X = 6.666

If roughly 50% of your damage occurs in air this is a 3.333% damage gain relative to not having this trait.
Therefore it’s basically the same as btth and my comment on OwA being considered better by phantaram is still relevant for the concerns of dadnir.
This is how damage mods are compared btw, they are not comparative to the base but your avg damage w/o that damage modifier.

No, it’s not. 1.5* base damage means it’s 50% more damage on average than base, this would happen without the trait. If you consider the trait, it would be 60% more damage, it’s pretty simple. Base damage itself is not affected by critical chance. If 50% of your damage camre from air, it would be 5% damage increase.

Base damage * 1,5 and Base damage * 1,6 IS comparing the gain from the trait.

One with air is rather a utility trait that lets you kite, nothing to do with damage. If you take Bolt to the heart, you’re pushing for more damage.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Your math is wrong here, if 100%of your damage comes from air it’s 5% therefore it is abismally low through the lenses of mathematics.

What? If 100% of your damage came from air, it would be 10% dmg modifier. Seeing as fresh air spends and therefore does damage in other attunements, I estimated reastically it could be around 3-5% of damage increase. Also, you were the one who suggested this trait.

A 10% chance to gain a critical damage bonus ( assuming your crit damage is at 200%) is actually a 5% gain.

And I know I suggested it, you and dadnir both appear to believe it is too strong or a bad choice.

Sigh. Without 10% crit
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + Critical Chance * ( Critical Damage – 1 ) )
AD = BD * (1 + 0,50 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1,50 > Average damage output higher 50% higher than base.
With 10% higher crit chance
AD = BD * (1 + 0,60 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1.,60 > Average damage output 60% higher than base.

60-50 = 10 > 10% damage increase

(Data from 26006 fresh air build)

No, I said I don’t like the trait and would rather if they came up with something else.

Ok I will change this for you. May my suggestion appease your endless posting.

Edit: you have any suggestions for a balanced and theme fitting trait ?

Edit 2: also your comparing the gain from base not from 1.5

I believe your math should be .1/1.5 = 1/15

1 = x
15=100
X = 6.666

If roughly 50% of your damage occurs in air this is a 3.333% damage gain relative to not having this trait.
Therefore it’s basically the same as btth and my comment on OwA being considered better by phantaram is still relevant for the concerns of dadnir.
This is how damage mods are compared btw, they are not comparative to the base but your avg damage w/o that damage modifier.

No, it’s not. 1.5* base damage means it’s 50% more damage on average than base, this would happen without the trait. If you consider the trait, it would be 60% more damage, it’s pretty simple. Base damage itself is not affected by critical chance. If 50% of your damage camre from air, it would be 5% damage increase.

Base damage * 1,5 and Base damage * 1,6 IS comparing the gain from the trait.

One with air is rather a utility trait that lets you kite, nothing to do with damage. If you take Bolt to the heart, you’re pushing for more damage.

But your damage mods affect your current damage not only your base damage ( because damage mods affect crit damage too) therefore when comparing crit chance to a damage modifier you should be comparing your damage w/o that crit chance to your damage with that crit chance.

Sadrien.3470:

Omg dude, please think about what you say. You want to figure out how much difference 10% crit chance will be, you don’t need to consider all damage modifiers since the only difference between two builds would be the 10% crit chance. Then yes, you can compare average damage (base + crit). And that’s exactly what I did, I compared two builds with and without that increased crit chance, read it again.

… I was hoping this thread would be a little more productive than this. How about you two just drop it for now, and try to come up with more ways to improve the class

I came up with a few buffs to these traitlines. With air I dont have to much to say, as i think its in a pretty good state aside from the fact that fresh air eles just dont have the natural sustain or utility it needs to be viable. I think zephyrs speed should just be removed as, its already useless when ele will either gain swiftness or one with air when attuning to air. It would be good for weak spot to take its place, and maybe nerf it down to a 50 chance on crit to apply vulnerability.( the vuln only lasts 5 sec, its a pretty bad gm minor) Then as a new gm minor either getting increased ferocity when attuned to air, or getting 10 damage buff over 90% health. Bolt to the heart could be kept how it is now, then moved to the master slot( Sadrien is right, no one will take it as a gm being compared to the other traits)

With fire the sunspot minor could be changed to burning the target for 3-4 seconds. Conjurer needs something to really reward people for using them but im not sure what. Pyromancer’s Puissance does need to be buffed to either give more than 1 stack of might per skill or do something entirely different( you will get kitten d if you try to stay in fire the whole time building up one might at a time). Then as noted earlier burning ashes should be 3 ICD per target, otherwise it still wont be useful in a team game

sirrrock.7940:

Bolt to the heart could be kept how it is now, then moved to the master slot( Sadrien is right, no one will take it as a gm being compared to the other traits)

Sadrien is not right, they already said they are gonna change the numbers so it’s equal to similar traits of this type. The reason why no one will take this is the simple fact it’s not better than fresh air.

Am i the only one thinking that having ele’s trait “equal to other class trait” isnt fair ? I mean, ele’s trait should be stornger to make up for low hp/armor

Mattmatt.4962:

Am i the only one thinking that having ele’s trait “equal to other class trait” isnt fair ? I mean, ele’s trait should be stornger to make up for low hp/armor

Would 50% more damage above 80% health treshold be okay with you?

Laraley.7695:

Mattmatt.4962:

Am i the only one thinking that having ele’s trait “equal to other class trait” isnt fair ? I mean, ele’s trait should be stornger to make up for low hp/armor

Would 50% more damage above 80% health treshold be okay with you?

The more appropriate answer to Mattmatt would be:
“Stop poking your finger inside Anet’s wound of bad decisions when they decided to add three health classes to the three existing armour classes.”

On topic of changes (only discussing profession changes that will roll out with HoT or shortly before with a feature patch, not the current traits):

The new traits (three lines, all to GM level) still emphasize direct DPS over Condi too much (perhaps add a +20% to Blind to an Air Trait and a +20% to Vulnerability to a Water Trait somewhere) and do not break out of the Cantrip meta at all. Traits with Synergy to Arcane & Signets need a slight tweak, Glyphs a BIG one. Boons in general need a base line +20% duration tweak that is currently associated with having 4 in Arcane.

i really dont see why you’re all so salty. Balance is about drawback for having something strong. We have a draw back, i’m still looking for the something strong.
(note: this “something strong” must have conterplay obviously … or active skillfull play)

Since we dont have mechanics to compensate for the drawback of low armor/hp, i assume trait are the thing i’m looking for.
In its current state, BTTH is stronger than is brother “+20% when below 50%HP” cause even if the health treshold is a bit lower, it’s adept and not a GM. Making it , imo, stronger.

Why are we the only remaining class with a trait granting perma vigor ? Why EleA despite beeing GM worthy was adept, is now master and will be minor ?
Those example are clearly above the average trait from other class. And that’s a way to balance Ele.

Sure i’d rather have an active mechanic not tied to trait, and have weaker trait (to be on par with other class), but till we don’t, our trait have to be “OP”

Mattmatt.4962:

i really dont see why you’re all so salty.

Didn’t you get that this was not a jab at you, but the imbalance of the combination of low health + low armour?

Although I am pretty sure a lot of global balance issues could be solved that way, Devs have never said anything about closing the gap of health points by raising the bottom by 20% and lowering the top by 20%.

Another thing they never explored is the “versatility” component to adapt to specific tasks by changing attunement. That could be giving us one skill in our array of skills that can counter something like stealth because it applies a Reveal, the ability to do an extra damage pulse vs. minions/pets/summons, the ability to deny Warriors adrenalin … you get the picture.

I don’t see Eles as too weak compared to other professions, I am just tired of being stuck in the same meta (globally in GW2).

even if they adjust the stats so that its 20% damage under 50% health scepter eles wont take it, atleast not how scepter is now. That air burst is the most consistent dps scepter has, which is sad but true. Even if you can land a good burst, that gets the enemy under 50% hp you will have to wait around another 7 sec for the next burst to come up. Theres simply not enough dps without fresh air, and staff users will most likely stick with lightning rod, esp if the new tempest specialization has some added cc

sirrrock.7940:

even if they adjust the stats so that its 20% damage under 50% health scepter eles wont take it, atleast not how scepter is now. That air burst is the most consistent dps scepter has, which is sad but true. Even if you can land a good burst, that gets the enemy under 50% hp you will have to wait around another 7 sec for the next burst to come up. Theres simply not enough dps without fresh air, and staff users will most likely stick with lightning rod, esp if the new tempest specialization has some added cc

Not true. You’re able to one shot every single zerker spec. If you use your burst and land all of it and your opponent is still not under 50% of their hp, you’re doing something wrong assuming you’re fighting a dps spec yourself. With celestial specs you’re going to have issues no matter what. It does lack sustained damage, but saying you have nothing other than burst is wrong, too.

yea well that’s the problem, you’ll have enough dps to beat a zerk spec with that one burst but against anything besides zerk the battle will end up being long enough for the rest of their team to jump you or you’ll just end up losing by yourself without enough sustain dps to finish the job. Its pointless to keep going with this though, having a build with one with air, bolt to the heart(with how it is now), and fresh air would be alot better than some one shot build by far

sirrrock.7940:

yea well that’s the problem, you’ll have enough dps to beat a zerk spec with that one burst but against anything besides zerk the battle will end up being long enough for the rest of their team to jump you or you’ll just end up losing by yourself without enough sustain dps to finish the job. Its pointless to keep going with this though, having a build with one with air, bolt to the heart(with how it is now), and fresh air would be alot better than some one shot build by far

You do realize that’s the issue of every zerker spec, in 1v1 all of them won’t have a good time fighting a cele spec. You shouldn’t even be doing it, that’s not your job, you’re just wasting time. While Bolt to the heart is a good adept trait, the damage increase is not that crazy really. I would take 10% dmg increase in air and fire instead any time. You should be probably more concerned about them removing flat 10% damage in air. Also, this is not why zerker ele has issues with keeping up some good sustained damage, it’s mostly because of weapon skills being just plain bad. You have no AA you can rely on once your burst is gone. On the other hand mesmer, thief, ranger and necro have good AA’s, that’s why they can keep their damage up.

Laraley.7695:

sirrrock.7940:

Bolt to the heart could be kept how it is now, then moved to the master slot( Sadrien is right, no one will take it as a gm being compared to the other traits)

Sadrien is not right, they already said they are gonna change the numbers so it’s equal to similar traits of this type. The reason why no one will take this is the simple fact it’s not better than fresh air.

Um you just reiterated something I said already after saying I was wrong about it. ( I have acknowledge that they said they will be changing number, I also said that it still will not be better than fresh air in a previous comment).

yea, its w.e he/she seems to love debating with people. Its not worth it though, we’ll all see how much a one shot build will be of use if it happens. Any other suggestions

I’m just making the facts straight

While I see the weaknesses of fresh air, you saying that it’s not viable because it cannot kill an cele spec is simply not true. For dps spec to be viable, it doesn’t need to kill a shoutbow. Let me remind you it’s not impossible for kill one either, but seeing as you would spend way too much time doing so, no dps spec will bother doing it unless the outcome of the game depends on it.

While your sustained damage is quite low, it’s seriously not what you said. You still can keep up some decent damage before your burst is back off cooldown.

If you major concern is the fact that fresh air cannot kill a cele spec, then I’m not sure what to say to you. There are things that need to be changed about it, but this is not one of them. Also the same goes for example fot thief, he would have to spend eternity trying to kill d/d ele or shoutbow.