Guild Wars 2

Major Kaldash.3542:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Kronosfear.7548:

Badly structured argument by OP.

It’s almost laughable that an ele would complain about a warrior he can’t catch.

I mean if my enemy would run away I’d say cheers for me since I sent him away and couldn’t manage to fight toe-to-toe with me.

But noooooooooooo!

Someone just had to satisfy their need to pound that hunk of armor.

This thread might get locked down since it’s not even putting out a constructive, worthy discussion, which is good.

I like your way of thinking if they run then that’s good

Isn’t that the same reason people were QQing and posting nerf threads about RTL was because it allowed eles to run away?

I don’t think people posted they really want to nerf warriors. They just want RTL cd reduced since they nerfed the real reasons the ele was over the top, that being cantrips and some water traits, in the last couple of patches.

RTL pre nerf made elementalist kings of mobility the devs have stated that they wanted thieves to be kings of mobility. Warriors and Eles come in second as it stands now. I do feel that 40 secs is a bit to long or give it back the 1500 range. I think that would be fair.

I’d like to see 25 secs on miss 15 seconds on hit. It really doesn’t do alot of damage seems about the same as lightning whip so it really is a gap closer/escape skill. With a lower cd at 25-30 secs on miss it would make reduction in air skill recharge a little more attractive.

Kronosfear.7548:

Badly structured argument by OP.

It’s almost laughable that an ele would complain about a warrior he can’t catch.

I mean if my enemy would run away I’d say cheers for me since I sent him away and couldn’t manage to fight toe-to-toe with me.

But noooooooooooo!

Someone just had to satisfy their need to pound that hunk of armor.

This thread might get locked down since it’s not even putting out a constructive, worthy discussion, which is good.

Ikr? but that didn’t stop pretty much everyone from complaining about RtL being “op”, instead of complaining about the healing, the boons or other traits unique to bunker builds.

Nope, all of those were fine, better nerf mobility and cripple eles as a whole!

If only logic worked on those feeble minds a few months back, we would still have RtL on a 20 seconds cooldown with the range at 1200.

By the way, this was a sarcastic thread in case you still haven’t noticed yet….

Kronosfear.7548:

Badly structured argument by OP.

It’s almost laughable that an ele would complain about a warrior he can’t catch.

I mean if my enemy would run away I’d say cheers for me since I sent him away and couldn’t manage to fight toe-to-toe with me.

But noooooooooooo!

Someone just had to satisfy their need to pound that hunk of armor.

This thread might get locked down since it’s not even putting out a constructive, worthy discussion, which is good.

So, it’s okay if warriors do it but when eles did it everyone screamed “NERF RTL it’s unfair when an ele gets away from my righteous kill!”? There’s a word for such a thing. Hypocrisy.

oZii.2864:

RTL pre nerf made elementalist kings of mobility the devs have stated that they wanted thieves to be kings of mobility.

Only it didn’t. Even before all the RTL nerfs, warriors, thieves and rangers had more mobility than ele.

It’s true. Warriors using the entire weapon setup for it (Sword/Warhorn+ Greatsword) have excellent mobility. In fact, it’s almost as good as a thief spamming heartseeker, and slightly better than an ele that’s not built mobility.

Wait a second. That warrior built for pure mobility is slightly faster than an "ele not build for pure mobility* and slightly slower than a thief spamming a single button?

Let me give it to you from a Warrior perspective.
I DONT WANT TO USE SWORD/WARHORN. I HAVE TO USE IT.
Warrior sustain is crap, therefore we have to be able to get in, and get out on demand. We get kited like crazy therefore I need a powerful gap closer, and immob just to break even.

I can’t tell you how many Ele’s I’ve stuck on, only to have them heal and shrug off all my damage and heal it all back using their weapon and utility skills.

As a warrior, you have 1 heal button, #6. That’s it. You take damage while that’s on cooldown… tough luck. So if things get hairy, I fall back. Get out of combat, let my health quick-regen, and then re-engage at my discretion.

When fighting on the frontlines, I have to use sword to leap backwards. I need warhorn to break cripple/immob. I dont have a magical mistform utility button to equip.

And when we go down, that’s pretty much it.
We cant down-mistform our way into a tower.
We cant down-mistform back to a line of allies if we overextend.
We get spiked. Our only defense while down is hard countered by stability, not to mention mist-spikes.
Even if we DO knockdown a spike, the enemy has just enough time to stand up and spike a second time, before Vengeance becomes available, due to its long activation CD.

Warriors only do two things well: zerker damage, and mobility.

So you want our mobility served up to you on a silver platter?
It’s all yours, I’ll trade it to you for your sustain.

Eles have to build for mobility too. With traits and weapon choices, just like warriors.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Eles have to build for mobility too. With traits and weapon choices, just like warriors.

So then what’s the problem? Without directly tackling the question of whether warriors can spec into mobility for better results than eles, lets first consider the following… and I mean this as a general statement, not directed only at Aether McLoud here.

1. Ele’s can spec into bunker/sustain for better results than warriors. Isn’t that just the same as your mobility complaint with the roles reversed? Don’t you agree then, if you’re going to adjust mobility of one or both of these classes, you should adjust the imbalanced sustain as well? IE: Eles gaining mobility but losing sustain, and warriors losing mobility but gaining sustain?

2. Thieves can get better mobility than either warriors or eles simply by spamming heartseeker. So, why are you singling out warriors for a nerf? If your goal is to see balance achieved by bringing down mobility, logically you should be targeting the #1 mobility class, not a runner up (hah). And if your goal is to bring up ele mobility, why would that involve nerfing warriors or anyone else?

wow, i thought this was a joke thread, but everyone seems to be taking it seriously.
i guess i can play along.

Dand.8231:

slightly better than an ele that’s not built mobility.

actually the d/d weapon set is made for mobility, you must be confusing it with staff or sceptre or */focus. you know, the weapons not made for mobility

Dand.8231:

shrug off all my damage and heal it all back using their weapon and utility skills.

we have heals on our utilities? but i thought Vigorous Shouts was only for warriors… you must be talking about the cookie cutter cantrip bunker build that was made to survive and do mediocre damage

it must feel bad to spec for heals on utilities and use a warhorn for condition removal when your opponent has specced for heals and drawing out the battle as long as possible

oh, and adrenal health with 2 bars of adrenaline does about the same amount of healing as soothing mist. how each scales with healing power may be different though

Dand.8231:

I dont have a magical mistform utility button to equip.

endure pain and defy pain don’t count do they…

Dand.8231:

As a warrior, you have 1 heal button, #6. That’s it. You take damage while that’s on cooldown… tough luck. So if things get hairy, I fall back. Get out of combat, let my health quick-regen, and then re-engage at my discretion.

i would have thought that the additional 291 toughness from armour and 7567 more health would have helped…
(got the numbers from GW2 wiki)

edit: i also forgot to mention the ‘convert 5% of toughness to power’ and ‘convert 5% of power to vitality’ option available, but i guess you dont want to be forced into speccing for that. that’s cool.

Dand.8231:

And when we go down, that’s pretty much it.
We cant down-mistform our way into a tower.
We cant down-mistform back to a line of allies if we overextend.
We get spiked. Our only defense while down is hard countered by stability, not to mention mist-spikes.
Even if we DO knockdown a spike, the enemy has just enough time to stand up and spike a second time, before Vengeance becomes available, due to its long activation CD.

yeh, i know that feeling. for the first few months of the game we had grasping earth for our #2 downed skill. it wasn’t even an interrupt or a knock down and vapour form was roughly on the same CD as vengeance. good thing the devs know how to balance skills… by swapping them around…

all things said, i’m making a warrior to test the waters. loving the shield so far (reflect projectiles and gain might on block is great for trolling in the middle of zergs), not sure what main-hand to use for my tanky build though

Dand.8231:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Eles have to build for mobility too. With traits and weapon choices, just like warriors.

So then what’s the problem? Without directly tackling the question of whether warriors can spec into mobility for better results than eles, lets first consider the following… and I mean this as a general statement, not directed only at Aether McLoud here.

1. Ele’s can spec into bunker/sustain for better results than warriors. Isn’t that just the same as your mobility complaint with the roles reversed? Don’t you agree then, if you’re going to adjust mobility of one or both of these classes, you should adjust the imbalanced sustain as well? IE: Eles gaining mobility but losing sustain, and warriors losing mobility but gaining sustain?

2. Thieves can get better mobility than either warriors or eles simply by spamming heartseeker. So, why are you singling out warriors for a nerf? If your goal is to see balance achieved by bringing down mobility, logically you should be targeting the #1 mobility class, not a runner up (hah). And if your goal is to bring up ele mobility, why would that involve nerfing warriors or anyone else?

I think the original intention of this thread is more about being sarcastic than really wanting to nerf warrior. As you mentioned, eles used to have sustain and mobility, but now both are nerfed. While most eles agree bunkers eles should be nerfed to some extent, they don’t want to lose mobility because it is also essential for aggressive eles builds and fun.

The point is of the thread is that the nerf on eles mobility is not necessary. Warrior is just a way to sarcastically illustrate the point.

The one asking why folk don`t kitten about tthief mobility, trust me, that has been brought up nearly constantly since the game went live but nothing ever gets altered.
Oh, unless you include the 1 second difference in reveal, which was reverted within no time at all in all places except spvp.
The main reason RTL should not of been nerfed to such a stupid degree, is that d//d is stuck as melee & has no weapon swap enabling them to go ranged, so if someone is kiting or hitting from afar, you have to catch them up, butt in the mean time they`re still pewpewing you.
If only players had stuck an immobilise spell on their bars instead of all damage spells, RTL wouldn`t of been cried about to such a silly degree.

Well, you`ll be happy warriors soon.
Sharp said on SOTG live, that due to pvp matters, warriors hp will be getting a buff.

LOL!!

Also possibly increased heals.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

nerfed ele wants to kill some warrior fun . gtfo , guess if ur not that mobile anymore no1 can be a ?

So… let me get this straight… so currently warriors got good mobility, yet theirs sustain is very low… I don’t get the argument O_O.

If someone makes a build to make him mobile, good for him, so long as there isn’t something annoying that comes with it, like… thief’s stealth + high burst damage…

Also, if you want to complain about people that can escape battles, try mesmers or thiefs:
In PvP, I have a build that helps me mobile and fast, and even then I can’t catch up to mesmers that constantly use stealth, teleports and clones (and trust me, I keep targeting the real them, doesn’t help when a clone is in the middle of my eviscerate all the time >.<).

While thiefs… well, it’s obvious but I’ll say it anyway, try and catch a thief when he goes stealth, and you can’t even tell which route he is going to run through… and should I even mention shadow refuge, which the thief can stay inside to let it give him about 10 seconds of stealth? >.<

Illusion.1807:

I think the original intention of this thread is more about being sarcastic than really wanting to nerf warrior. As you mentioned, eles used to have sustain and mobility, but now both are nerfed. While most eles agree bunkers eles should be nerfed to some extent, they don’t want to lose mobility because it is also essential for aggressive eles builds and fun.

The point is of the thread is that the nerf on eles mobility is not necessary. Warrior is just a way to sarcastically illustrate the point.

I don’t understand the whole bunker eles should be nerfed to some extent point. Its gear that makes you a bunker. The spec itself is the traits and the traits arent what make it bunker if that was the case then everyone would run zerker and be golden because then they would have 80+ crit dmg, 90% crit chance and sustain. All while sitting around 14k hp. o.O

A bunker guardian can use the same weapons as a full zerker guardian just like damage specced eles can use the same weapons as bunker specs.

I can go 30 strength 30 arms 10 discipline on my warrior but if I strap him up in all soldier gear with a GS and a Axe/shield I definitely wouldn’t call him a DPS warrior.

If I go 30 deadly arts, 30 critcal strikes, 10 trickery D/D on my thief but put him in all clerics he isn’t a dps thief.

I think everyone is missing the point here…

IT WAS NEVER ABOUT SUSTAIN OR BUNKER-LIKE ABILITIES, IT WAS NEVER ABOUT HOW BROKEN AND UNKILLABLE ELES WERE. THE QQ WAS ALWAYS ABOUT RTL AND RTL ONLY, AS IF THAT WAS THE SINGLE MOST GAMEBREAKING ASPECT ABOUT THE BUNKER BUILDS.

And it got nerfed. Because the mindless (saving some adjectives) players only have eyes for things that deny them kills.

So now it only makes sense that the warriors get nerfed. kitten all your excuses or attempts at logic, they are too mobile, they deserve the nerfs.

Right?

Razor.6392:

I think everyone is missing the point here…

IT WAS NEVER ABOUT SUSTAIN OR BUNKER-LIKE ABILITIES, IT WAS NEVER ABOUT HOW BROKEN AND UNKILLABLE ELES WERE. THE QQ WAS ALWAYS ABOUT RTL AND RTL ONLY, AS IF THAT WAS THE SINGLE MOST GAMEBREAKING ASPECT ABOUT THE BUNKER BUILDS.

And it got nerfed. Because the mindless (saving some adjectives) players only have eyes for things that deny them kills.

So now it only makes sense that the warriors get nerfed. kitten all your excuses or attempts at logic, they are too mobile, they deserve the nerfs.

Right?

Actually, no… I read about RTL, the recharge rate is halved if it hits something, making the recharge the same as warrior greatsword’s rush.

Then why you have a higher recharge time when it doesn’t? simple, yours isn’t affected by any slows… do you know how annoying it is when someone chills me or cripples me? I get far less mobile during that time, making my “running” skills not strong enough to make any gaps, or even worse, to CLOSE IN that gap…

Rance Webster.2635:

Razor.6392:

I think everyone is missing the point here…

IT WAS NEVER ABOUT SUSTAIN OR BUNKER-LIKE ABILITIES, IT WAS NEVER ABOUT HOW BROKEN AND UNKILLABLE ELES WERE. THE QQ WAS ALWAYS ABOUT RTL AND RTL ONLY, AS IF THAT WAS THE SINGLE MOST GAMEBREAKING ASPECT ABOUT THE BUNKER BUILDS.

And it got nerfed. Because the mindless (saving some adjectives) players only have eyes for things that deny them kills.

So now it only makes sense that the warriors get nerfed. kitten all your excuses or attempts at logic, they are too mobile, they deserve the nerfs.

Right?

Actually, no… I read about RTL, the recharge rate is halved if it hits something, making the recharge the same as warrior greatsword’s rush.

Then why you have a higher recharge time when it doesn’t? simple, yours isn’t affected by any slows… do you know how annoying it is when someone chills me or cripples me? I get far less mobile during that time, making my “running” skills not strong enough to make any gaps, or even worse, to CLOSE IN that gap…

in return, eles are useless for 2 seconds if they get immobilized.

I have a level 80 warrior and a Level 80 Ele. We’re weak because we’ve been forced into close combat as casters and because our conditions need an overhaul. We really shouldn’t be trying to 1v1 warriors in melee. They used to have a weakness for us to exploit and that was their lack of condition removal. But they needed it more for other classes than for Ele’s, So those days are over unless their already weakened or your build is packing more than the usual D/D build is.

I just met an awesome skillful warrior. He’s from Jq and his name is Skullandbones. The first warrior that I stood no chance to beat. He dueled against other warriors, guardians, eles, necros and engi as well during our gather. They all came not even close to defeat him. He really impressed me. I looked up on youtube to find his videos but without success. If anyone know if he uploaded videos please let me know.

Razor.6392:

Rance Webster.2635:

Razor.6392:

I think everyone is missing the point here…

IT WAS NEVER ABOUT SUSTAIN OR BUNKER-LIKE ABILITIES, IT WAS NEVER ABOUT HOW BROKEN AND UNKILLABLE ELES WERE. THE QQ WAS ALWAYS ABOUT RTL AND RTL ONLY, AS IF THAT WAS THE SINGLE MOST GAMEBREAKING ASPECT ABOUT THE BUNKER BUILDS.

And it got nerfed. Because the mindless (saving some adjectives) players only have eyes for things that deny them kills.

So now it only makes sense that the warriors get nerfed. kitten all your excuses or attempts at logic, they are too mobile, they deserve the nerfs.

Right?

Actually, no… I read about RTL, the recharge rate is halved if it hits something, making the recharge the same as warrior greatsword’s rush.

Then why you have a higher recharge time when it doesn’t? simple, yours isn’t affected by any slows… do you know how annoying it is when someone chills me or cripples me? I get far less mobile during that time, making my “running” skills not strong enough to make any gaps, or even worse, to CLOSE IN that gap…

in return, eles are useless for 2 seconds if they get immobilized.

You do realize that can happen to warriors too?
<ins>besides, never had of “cancel” just cancel it and use your other moves to deal damage while you are stuck.</ins>

Edit: turns out that I can’t cancel rush or whirlwind even with esc and sheathing, oops XD. the first part still stands though – you can ask to gain the normal 20 cooldown if you get immobilized while using it, instead of asking a warrior’s mobility nerf :O
And turns out underline text doesn’t work, go figure.

Rance Webster.2635:

Razor.6392:

Rance Webster.2635:

Razor.6392:

I think everyone is missing the point here…

IT WAS NEVER ABOUT SUSTAIN OR BUNKER-LIKE ABILITIES, IT WAS NEVER ABOUT HOW BROKEN AND UNKILLABLE ELES WERE. THE QQ WAS ALWAYS ABOUT RTL AND RTL ONLY, AS IF THAT WAS THE SINGLE MOST GAMEBREAKING ASPECT ABOUT THE BUNKER BUILDS.

And it got nerfed. Because the mindless (saving some adjectives) players only have eyes for things that deny them kills.

So now it only makes sense that the warriors get nerfed. kitten all your excuses or attempts at logic, they are too mobile, they deserve the nerfs.

Right?

Actually, no… I read about RTL, the recharge rate is halved if it hits something, making the recharge the same as warrior greatsword’s rush.

Then why you have a higher recharge time when it doesn’t? simple, yours isn’t affected by any slows… do you know how annoying it is when someone chills me or cripples me? I get far less mobile during that time, making my “running” skills not strong enough to make any gaps, or even worse, to CLOSE IN that gap…

in return, eles are useless for 2 seconds if they get immobilized.

You do realize that can happen to warriors too?
<ins>besides, never had of “cancel” just cancel it and use your other moves to deal damage while you are stuck.</ins>

Edit: turns out that I can’t cancel rush or whirlwind even with esc and sheathing, oops XD. the first part still stands though – you can ask to gain the normal 20 cooldown if you get immobilized while using it, instead of asking a warrior’s mobility nerf :O
And turns out underline text doesn’t work, go figure.

that will never happen though…

tichorum.2415:

PvE – They’re amazing. Why would you want a nerf when they can’t kill you in PvE.

PvP – Is this a joke? Warriors are the worst class in PvP. Go look at the PvP forum and the topic that says “Tier List” and 99% of the posts say warriors are the worst PvP class. So easily predictable.

PVE, it’s about the fact that warriors are so good that people will not take other classes for damage, they take zerker warriors almost exclusively. Eles and Mesmers can squeeze in as support and control with moderate damage occasionally and obviously Guardian is in demand for support, but if you want to go into a dungeon or fractal as pure damage, many groups will only accept warriors. I’ve seen rangers, thieves, engis, and necros literally kicked from group just because of their class.

PVP.. SPvP you are right, Warriors are mediocre. However in WvW or larger scale fights (at least 10v10) warriors are incredible as front line, control, and support. They’re survivable, hammer and stomp can juggle people to death, and warbanner can completely turn a battle around. They work better in coordination and stacking a good 3 or more, 1 warrior in a group of course is going to have problems but running 6 warriors in a group of 20? That’s effective, more so than running 6 of any other class because of the juggles and warbanners which other classes can’t do as effectively.

Devildoc.6721:

tichorum.2415:

PvE – They’re amazing. Why would you want a nerf when they can’t kill you in PvE.

PvP – Is this a joke? Warriors are the worst class in PvP. Go look at the PvP forum and the topic that says “Tier List” and 99% of the posts say warriors are the worst PvP class. So easily predictable.

PVE, it’s about the fact that warriors are so good that people will not take other classes for damage, they take zerker warriors almost exclusively. Eles and Mesmers can squeeze in as support and control with moderate damage occasionally and obviously Guardian is in demand for support, but if you want to go into a dungeon or fractal as pure damage, many groups will only accept warriors. I’ve seen rangers, thieves, engis, and necros literally kicked from group just because of their class.

PVP.. SPvP you are right, Warriors are mediocre. However in WvW or larger scale fights (at least 10v10) warriors are incredible as front line, control, and support. They’re survivable, hammer and stomp can juggle people to death, and warbanner can completely turn a battle around. They work better in coordination and stacking a good 3 or more, 1 warrior in a group of course is going to have problems but running 6 warriors in a group of 20? That’s effective, more so than running 6 of any other class because of the juggles and warbanners which other classes can’t do as effectively.

In wvwvw, warrior are viable due to overpowered food buffs.

There is a reason why lemon grass cost so much. That food buff became mandatory to practically all wvwvw builds.

So, warriors still have structural problems that prevents them to be viable

Blind change only made it worse which force Callahan to bring a longbow instead of his pure melee roaming build

@SilverUniverse: Your reply is a bit too long to quote without wall-o-text mania, so ill just go point by point.

d/d mobility
I’m not a pro ele, but d/d appears to be able to maintain a higher damage output than sword/warhorn. I don’t think this is because it’s skills are inherently more powerful, but rather that the slightly increased range makes your DPS uptime higher. SW/WH having slightly better mobility is offset by the shorter range, when sticking on a target.
SW/WH is 140 range, while most d/d stuff is between 300-600. So yes, warrior mobility will get you somewhere a little faster, but you can “melee” us from 450, while we hit nothing but air and are forced to close.

I find this to be a very common issue when I fighting skilled d/d eles, they have enough mobility to keep me in that magical range of ~450 where my 140 melee attacks are useless, but they can inflict full dps. I’m not crying foul, or screaming nerf, mind you, just trying to explain that mobility is also relative to your range.

Shout healing
The problem, as I have said many times on the forums, isn’t that warriors cant spec for sustain. It’s that they lose EVERYTHING else when they spec sustain, and even then get inferior results. A bunker ele isn’t going to be out DPSing a zerker build obviously. But bunker eles (and other classes) can still deal some respectable damage while being bunker sustain builds. Warriors cannot accomplish this. Going bunker/sustain means you’re effectively a buffbot, with no real ability to launch any kind of offensive. And a hybrid balanced build gains the worst of both worlds.

Dont get me wrong, our mobility builds can be quite fast, and warrior zerker builds are infamous for good reason. And I’m not saying that either of them needs or deserves a sustain buff. I’m saying that when specced for it, warriors should be able to accomplish a level of sustain that rivals an ele, while allowing for a similar damage output level. And when going hybrid, there should be a good balance of damage and sustain. Currently that is not the case.

i would have thought that the additional 291 toughness from armour and 7567 more health would have helped
You thought wrong. 7.6k extra health is nice, but it’s only a one-time buffer. When will people realize that having more health does not provide more sustain. Sustain is accomplished by mitigating damage (using evades and protection) and reversing damage (by heals and regens). Your HP value is the threshold you need to stay within to remain alive. Ele’s have a lower threshold, but more means to remain within that threshold by mitigating and recovering from damage. Warriors low sustain means they have a clearly defined finite lifespan. Thus, why we will often run off to disengage, reset, and re-enter a battle. You’re not mitigating or sustaining jack with 291 toughness, and no amount of HP adds to prolonged survival and sustain.

Endure/Defy pain are good, but they don’t allow mist spikes, and dont protect versus condis. So while foes running power builds are halted, other condi builds are barely even slowed down.

downed mistform
I don’t want to see warriors be given the same treatment, swapping our 2 and 3 skill. Vengeance should not be immediately available upon down, it’d be both OP and unfun. I feel our 2 skill needs to function more like our Stomp utility skill, and vengeance itself needs a complete facelift.

all things said, i’m making a warrior to test the waters. loving the shield so far (reflect projectiles and gain might on block is great for trolling in the middle of zergs), not sure what main-hand to use for my tanky build though
I wish you the best. Warrior tanky builds can be fun to play WvW, you’ll have great survivability versus spike damage due to the high base HP, which certainly does help if you get caught too close to a zerg. I suggest you run Soldiers gear PVT, and splash in some zerker rings or trinkets to add a little ‘oomph’ to your attacks. Also use mango pies, +90 health regen.

As a longbow/axe warrior I concur. Let’s shut those greatsword warriors up before they’re stuck being kitteny forever.

Viking Jorun.5413:

As a longbow/axe warrior I concur. Let’s shut those greatsword warriors up before they’re stuck being kitteny forever.

Oh heck no, my greatsword mobility is the only thing that allows me to keep up with those pesky mesmers when they go all teleport, stealth and clones – it helps me close the gap to kill them.

Dand.8231:

It’s true. Warriors using the entire weapon setup for it (Sword/Warhorn+ Greatsword) have excellent mobility. In fact, it’s almost as good as a thief spamming heartseeker, and slightly better than an ele that’s not built mobility.

Wait a second. That warrior built for pure mobility is slightly faster than an "ele not build for pure mobility* and slightly slower than a thief spamming a single button?

Let me give it to you from a Warrior perspective.
I DONT WANT TO USE SWORD/WARHORN. I HAVE TO USE IT.
Warrior sustain is crap, therefore we have to be able to get in, and get out on demand. We get kited like crazy therefore I need a powerful gap closer, and immob just to break even.

I can’t tell you how many Ele’s I’ve stuck on, only to have them heal and shrug off all my damage and heal it all back using their weapon and utility skills.

As a warrior, you have 1 heal button, #6. That’s it. You take damage while that’s on cooldown… tough luck. So if things get hairy, I fall back. Get out of combat, let my health quick-regen, and then re-engage at my discretion.

When fighting on the frontlines, I have to use sword to leap backwards. I need warhorn to break cripple/immob. I dont have a magical mistform utility button to equip.

And when we go down, that’s pretty much it.
We cant down-mistform our way into a tower.
We cant down-mistform back to a line of allies if we overextend.
We get spiked. Our only defense while down is hard countered by stability, not to mention mist-spikes.
Even if we DO knockdown a spike, the enemy has just enough time to stand up and spike a second time, before Vengeance becomes available, due to its long activation CD.

Warriors only do two things well: zerker damage, and mobility.

So you want our mobility served up to you on a silver platter?
It’s all yours, I’ll trade it to you for your sustain.

As a warrior, you have 8k higher base hp and a significant toughness advantage. Ignoring the armor, you’ve already “healed” 8k compared to an elementalist, which is two water rotatations. It might not be true sustain, but its putting you on par, with no work at all, for the first 20-30 seconds of the fight. Then build shout heals for the same base heal as cleansing wave/healing ripple, with a 0.8 ratio. Add adrenal regen and the buffed #6 skills and you aren’t far behind in terms of damage sustained considering the armor advantage.

Whats that, you don’t want to spend 50 points going bunker to have sustain? Let me give it to you from an elementalist’s perspective.
I DON’T WANT TO GO 30/30 WATER/ARCANE. I HAVE TO DO IT

Think about what those elementalists you fought would be like if they didn’t heal on swap, heal on dodge, or have traited regeneration condition removal.
THATS 60 TRAIT POINTS AND A UTILITY BAR FULL OF CANTRIPS RIGHT THERE

Stop treating sustain as a built-in part of the class.
Its something most eles are forced to invest heavily into, that most warriors don’t bother picking up.

As a full rabid conditions d/d build I have 13k hp, 1600 health every 15 seconds if I want to lose bleed stacking for the next 15, no regeneration, swiftness on 40s CD. See that? With no investment into sustain, I don’t get any sustain either. Wonder why.

And really, I don’t understand the whole “warriors lose everything” “elementalists still do well” concept. We don’t get some sort of magical damage buff at low stats. Fire breath ticks for 200 damage in bunker builds. Now admitedly, I haven’t seen bunker warrior damage against nearly as many foes as I’ve played ele against, but there doesn’t seem to be much difference in damage dropoff.

I can’t tell if everyone in this thread is trolling, but FYI trying to get pvp warriors nerfed is like trying to make Christmas illegal..

Phaeton.9582:

I can’t tell if everyone in this thread is trolling, but FYI trying to get pvp warriors nerfed is like trying to make Christmas illegal..

Well, all class forums have thread like these. The only difference is warrior have a areason to call themselves underpowered but the rest of the classes shouldnt complain as much

However, Rangers should get a look at to bring better group utility. Rangers are kinda useless in dungeons

loseridoit.2756:

Phaeton.9582:

I can’t tell if everyone in this thread is trolling, but FYI trying to get pvp warriors nerfed is like trying to make Christmas illegal..

Well, all class forums have thread like these. The only difference is warrior have a areason to call themselves underpowered but the rest of the classes shouldnt complain as much

However, Rangers should get a look at to bring better group utility. Rangers are kinda useless in dungeons

These threads in all the class forums usually turn into but the grass looks greener on the other side.

There is a thread running around I saw here asking for changes to skills that would give elementalist stealth through combo finishers o.O.

oZii.2864:

loseridoit.2756:

Phaeton.9582:

I can’t tell if everyone in this thread is trolling, but FYI trying to get pvp warriors nerfed is like trying to make Christmas illegal..

Well, all class forums have thread like these. The only difference is warrior have a areason to call themselves underpowered but the rest of the classes shouldnt complain as much

However, Rangers should get a look at to bring better group utility. Rangers are kinda useless in dungeons

These threads in all the class forums usually turn into but the grass looks greener on the other side.

There is a thread running around I saw here asking for changes to skills that would give elementalist stealth through combo finishers o.O.

please link that thread. I wanna see.

If we complain about warrior enough anet will nerf rush to 40 sec CD just like they did with ele!

don’t you know ele has stealth underwater? lrn2play.

oZii.2864:

There is a thread running around I saw here asking for changes to skills that would give elementalist stealth through combo finishers o.O.

that was probably my comment. i meant it as a field that makes enemy projectiles miss and not as a combo finisher, as opposed to a fire aura with a 40s cooldown

no i wasn’t thinking it through.

Edit: now that i think about it, we already have a smoke field we can stealth into… it’s on the trident…

oZii.2864:

There is a thread running around I saw here asking for changes to skills that would give elementalist stealth through combo finishers o.O.

And why would that be a bad thing? (we already can underwater)

Mesmers and engineers can stealth, and they have higher base survival.

Not sure why a mobility spec warrior would need to spec high-sustain. The idea is to be able to reset combat at will and engage on your own terms, like a thief. People saying warriors have no sustain are not getting the whole idea behind high-mobility builds.

A thief spamming HS and steal/shadowstep like crazy might be able to catch a mobility warrior, but then they will be out of initiative (only able to autoattack, need utilities or heal just to stealth) and the warrior will still have most of his damaging attacks available.

GS rush, whirlwind and sword leap are basically unaffected by movement impairing skills in a high mobility build anyway. There are so many options to remove those conditions actively or passively through traits/gear/foods.

The problem with old RtL was it’s bugged range of 1500. All the other problems were with the x-x-x-30-30 cantrip build, most of which have been solved. The crazy “if it’kittens you get normal cooldown, otherwise double!” thing is just out of left field. Fixing the bugged range and the cantrip/water/arcane OP synergy were the only things necessary.

Warrior mobility doesn’t need a nerf, but this thread makes a valid point.

Thieves and Mesmers can stealth through class mechanics.
Engineers, Rangers and Elementalists underwater can stealth trough combo fields.

It’s a logical conclusion that if you want to buff fire for eles that giving them a smokefield would be a valid choice because it’s already there underwater.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Thieves and Mesmers can stealth through class mechanics.
Engineers, Rangers and Elementalists underwater can stealth trough combo fields.

It’s a logical conclusion that if you want to buff fire for eles that giving them a smokefield would be a valid choice because it’s already there underwater.

How in the world is that a logical conclusion to buff fire because elementalist have a smoke field in Earth underwater.

Can you elaborate on how you came to this logical conclusion of underwater combo field from earth attunement = buff fire with smoke fields?

There are no smoke fields in the game that do damage for any class. So you want to buff fire by giving it smoke fields that just blind? Or you’re suggesting that Anet completely change what fire fields do so that they now cause damage instead of blinding? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields now grant smoke instead of burning people, giving fire auras and granting might? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields burn people and have smoke so that they also blind people if you leap through them you get stealth.

Yea ok thats going to happen.

Do you have a thief?

Ele’s have access to so much AOE on their weapons that the stealth would be worthless.

How would they implement this or are you just throwing a suggestion out there and didn’t think about it?

Lets assume(this is never going to happen)

NEW TRAIT: Smokey Blaze – Blast and Leap finishers through fire fields now grant stealth instead of might and fire aura.

So I lay a ring of fire down, I dodge roll for evasive arcana from earth I am now stealth. It would be so easy to get revealed debuff on a elementalist I am sure most people would prefer might stacks.

Fire → Steam → Smoke

Your thoughtless comment amuses me.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Fire -> Steam -> Smoke

Your thoughtless comment amuses me.

Brb let me go boil water and make smoke!!! lol

The thoughtless belongs you because you didn’t think about that at all. You think it sounds cool so hey lets do it!!!

Your suggestion means that every fire field in the game has to be changed in behavior. You totally thought about that.

You also totally thought about ele’s very large amount of AOE’s and that a suggestion like that is dumb because you would get revealed debuff all day long.

Its like a thief running off hand pistol and smoke screen utility laying the fields down to get stealth while spamming cluster bomb in close proximity to a enemy. .

This is one of those the grass looks greener on the other side suggestions.

Next you will be asking for earth skills to create mud fields in water.

Fire fields to create steam in water followed by elementalist should have access to grenades like engineers

Wow this thread is going in a direction that amuses me.

oZii.2864:

There are no smoke fields in the game that do damage for any class.

there’s two
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder (it’s also a projectile finisher)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Water_%28jellyfish%29

Aether McLoud.1975:

Fire -> Steam -> Smoke

that should be
fire -> stuff burning -> smoke
because, you know, when stuff burns… it makes smoke

oZii.2864:

Or you’re suggesting that Anet completely change what fire fields do so that they now cause damage instead of blinding? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields now grant smoke instead of burning people, giving fire auras and granting might? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields burn people and have smoke so that they also blind people if you leap through them you get stealth.

or just have a field that only makes projectiles that pass through miss and isn’t a combo finisher (which would suit the defensive style of focus, although it would be exactly the same as swirling winds)
or just have a better skill for focus #4 on fire that could be anything other than a single fire aura on 40s cooldown

oZii.2864:

Next you will be asking for earth skills to create mud fields in water.

actually i think the concept of Murky Water was meant to be some kind of mud field, or at least dirt being kicked up in the water to create a field that nobody can see in. since smoke fields already exist and suit the description of a field in which nobody can see in, they made the skill a smoke field. and Anet aren’t going to make a special field for one skill on one class

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Kronosfear.7548:

Badly structured argument by OP.

It’s almost laughable that an ele would complain about a warrior he can’t catch.

I mean if my enemy would run away I’d say cheers for me since I sent him away and couldn’t manage to fight toe-to-toe with me.

But noooooooooooo!

Someone just had to satisfy their need to pound that hunk of armor.

This thread might get locked down since it’s not even putting out a constructive, worthy discussion, which is good.

I like your way of thinking if they run then that’s good

Then maybe all professions should just have a button that if they are losing they can press that button and go to their border waypoint instead of dying. So they dont get any repairbill and their enemy doesnt get any lootbag for defeating them.

Ow wait! We had that! It was called “logging out”, and it was fixed so you could not do that.

Funny how people then complain about two professions who still have a “get out of jail free”-card if they are losing. Warrior and Thief. Its almost like they want these two professions to be brough in line with everyone else and suck it up, accept your death and let their killer actually get the lootbag for it.

I never understood the nerf on RTL to 40sec anyway. RTL and Lightning Flash (which was on a 60sec cd) were the only things they had on top of just running. A Thief or Warrior would still handily outrun an Ele. Heck even a Ranger with Sword/GS could keep up.
Baring in mind the bug that caused RTL to go 1500 range instead of 1200 has also been fixed.

sorrychief.2563:

Wow this thread is going in a direction that amuses me.

It even funnier than you think.

This thread is asking the weakest class in the game to have their mobility nerf because they cannot catch a warrior after they are winning

Please note: they are not complain that the warrior is strong but they cannot catch least viable melee build that is built for mobility.

tl:dr I fighting a weak mobile build and I keep winning but my loot bags has legs

SilverUniverse.7103:

oZii.2864:

There are no smoke fields in the game that do damage for any class.

there’s two
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder (it’s also a projectile finisher)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Water_%28jellyfish%29

Aether McLoud.1975:

Fire -> Steam -> Smoke

that should be
fire -> stuff burning -> smoke
because, you know, when stuff burns… it makes smoke

oZii.2864:

Or you’re suggesting that Anet completely change what fire fields do so that they now cause damage instead of blinding? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields now grant smoke instead of burning people, giving fire auras and granting might? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields burn people and have smoke so that they also blind people if you leap through them you get stealth.

or just have a field that only makes projectiles that pass through miss and isn’t a combo finisher (which would suit the defensive style of focus, although it would be exactly the same as swirling winds)
or just have a better skill for focus #4 on fire that could be anything other than a single fire aura on 40s cooldown

oZii.2864:

Next you will be asking for earth skills to create mud fields in water.

actually i think the concept of Murky Water was meant to be some kind of mud field, or at least dirt being kicked up in the water to create a field that nobody can see in. since smoke fields already exist and suit the description of a field in which nobody can see in, they made the skill a smoke field. and Anet aren’t going to make a special field for one skill on one class

No the field itself doesn’t do damage!

If I lay ring of fire down and you walk over it you will burn. If you walk into a smoke field you blind.

Black powder does damage because you shoot a projectile the field itself doesn’t do damage.