Guild Wars 2

In PVE

I’m 99% sure it’s staff, but some guy yesterday was really convinced that fresh air s/d had superior damage.

S/D has nice burst (fire -> air), but it has nothing in between until fire is back up. Fresh air burst alone doesn’t do enough damage on its own and if you go 6/6/x/x/x your attunement recharge rate is so low that you can’t really rotate water / earth that often to get air’s CD recharged regularly. Not to mention scepter’s very limited aoe capabilities.

So which one is it according to you guys?

pve staff dmg, just camp fire, scepter all auto atks r so weak that u actually have to wait for other skills to recharge, ofc u could go lightning hammer build, but on bosses with big hitbox u want frostbow+ meteors

S/D fresh air is terrible in PvE. Terrible. No one runs it.

Staff is highest, and s/f+ LH in some situations might be better.

Go look at DeKeyz2Chaos sticky on dps ele. She gives a good breakdown and numbers for the different weapons. If you are running S/X you are only running it to stack might and perma fury with the weapon itself and using LH as your dps weapon. I personally run S/D or D/F or D/D depending what im doing. I never run staff since I think its kind of a horrible weapon(mechanics wise) and almost as boring as playing a GS warrior.

For PvE:

Fire Staff = Highest
Scepter + LH = Second Highest (mainly the Lightning Hammer)
MH Dagger = Third Highest

Scepter = Terrible after about 3 seconds of combat, but highest if the combat is shorter than that, strangely enough.

Neko.9021:

For PvE:

Fire Staff = Highest
Scepter + LH = Second Highest (mainly the Lightning Hammer)
MH Dagger = Third Highest

Scepter = Terrible after about 3 seconds of combat, but highest if the combat is shorter than that, strangely enough.

Oh, I thought dagger has the highest dps…

I’ve been working on some new rotations and have managed to find slightly higher damage scepter-hammer rotations while working on some projects with Nike. These rotations are pretty easy but they aren’t great for PUGs because your DPS drops significantly after 40 seconds. Still testing and tweaking, but the current numbers are:

Fire staff 6-4-2-2-0: 14475 DPS
S/D+Hammer non-conjurer 5-5-2-2-0: 13990 DPS
S/D+Hammer non-conjurer 6-6-2-0-0: 13805 DPS
S/F+Hammer non-conjurer 5-5-2-2-0: 13585 DPS
S/F+Hammer non-conjurer 6-6-2-0-0: 13375 DPS
Fire staff 6-6-0-0-2: 13335 DPS
S/D+Hammer conjurer 6-6-2-0-0: 12965 DPS
S/F+ Hammer conjurer 6-6-2-0-0: 12725 DPS
D/D 6-6-2-0-0: ~11500-12500ish DPS
D/F 6-6-2-0-0: 11580 DPS

Scepter actually has about 5 seconds of decent burst and for the non-conjurer rotations a 20% modifier on only the LH portion was less of an increase on DPS than a 10% modifier overall.

5-4-0-5-0, which I have in my guide, is still better than 5-5-2-2-0 for FB/FGS damage as long as you don’t need the vuln and is still a very build if your group is prestacking might, has fury covered, and if you want conjurer. If you’re not prestacking might, 5-5-2-2-0 is better than 5-4-0-5-0 according to my current calculations (but they have different rotations).

These numbers assume 25 might and vuln and full uptime on all modifiers. Used Berserker armor, optimal food, scholar’s runes, night/force sigils, potion, no stacks, no EA or Spotter, no infusions. The method that I used for these particular numbers (used as part of the project with Nike) I’m not as happy with but are within 0.5% DPS of my standard methods.

Oh My God.8423:

Neko.9021:

For PvE:

Fire Staff = Highest
Scepter + LH = Second Highest (mainly the Lightning Hammer)
MH Dagger = Third Highest

Scepter = Terrible after about 3 seconds of combat, but highest if the combat is shorter than that, strangely enough.

Oh, I thought dagger has the highest dps…

A1 does. For auto attacks. And that was zerker build

Fuzzion.2504:

Oh My God.8423:

Neko.9021:

For PvE:

Fire Staff = Highest
Scepter + LH = Second Highest (mainly the Lightning Hammer)
MH Dagger = Third Highest

Scepter = Terrible after about 3 seconds of combat, but highest if the combat is shorter than that, strangely enough.

Oh, I thought dagger has the highest dps…

A1 does. For auto attacks. And that was zerker build

Only if all three projectiles hit. Most dagger builds in PvE actually use AA only from air attunement, partly for this reason.

Anyway Keyz’s post is basically the final verdict~

The main appeal for staff in PvE is Meteor Shower. It can deal humongeous damage to groups (and bosses) because of the large number of hits. And you get most of your cooldown while walking to the next group, resulting in greater MS uptime than you’d get on paper. Scepter and dagger don’t have anything that comes close.

Of course, when it comes to single target dps over longer fights, the story gets different.

ThiBash.5634:

The main appeal for staff in PvE is Meteor Shower. It can deal humongeous damage to groups (and bosses) because of the large number of hits. And you get most of your cooldown while walking to the next group, resulting in greater MS uptime than you’d get on paper. Scepter and dagger don’t have anything that comes close.

Of course, when it comes to single target dps over longer fights, the story gets different.

It’s actually more of a function of how OP lava font is

maxinion.8396:

ThiBash.5634:

The main appeal for staff in PvE is Meteor Shower. It can deal humongeous damage to groups (and bosses) because of the large number of hits. And you get most of your cooldown while walking to the next group, resulting in greater MS uptime than you’d get on paper. Scepter and dagger don’t have anything that comes close.

Of course, when it comes to single target dps over longer fights, the story gets different.

It’s actually more of a function of how OP lava font is

Ya, your dmg as a staff Ele come from Lava Front combine with persisting flames. Meteor Shower is a nice burst (especially on a wall), but it not your main source of dmg.

Thaddeus.4891:

Meteor Shower is a nice burst (especially on a wall), but it not your main source of dmg.

I was referring to thrash mob fights. Most groups will skip non-boss fights if they can of course, but if you don’t, the meteor shower usually lasts pretty much the entire encounter. For longer (boss) fights this is obviously not the case. But it does give staff an edge over scepter and dagger in addition to whatever else it does in terms of dps.

Staff: Lava font → Blast, Blast → Trash dead.
Dagger: Flamewall → Burning Speed (to the wall) → Blast, blast, blast → Trash dead.
Scepter: … hmmm, wait, let me summon my hammer.

Iris Ng.9845:

Staff: Lava font -> Blast, Blast -> Trash dead.
Dagger: Flamewall -> Burning Speed (to the wall) -> Blast, blast, blast -> Trash dead.
Scepter: … hmmm, wait, let me summon my hammer.

Scepter: “Hmm, can I camp AA lazily without my team noticing so I don’t have to wastea cooldown on LH?”

maxinion.8396:

Iris Ng.9845:

Staff: Lava font -> Blast, Blast -> Trash dead.
Dagger: Flamewall -> Burning Speed (to the wall) -> Blast, blast, blast -> Trash dead.
Scepter: … hmmm, wait, let me summon my hammer.

Scepter: “Hmm, can I camp AA lazily without my team noticing so I don’t have to wastea cooldown on LH?”

Really, guys and gals. Really? I thought you knew better.

I’ll give you 2 damage numbers. The first is if you are at 0 might and are the only person stacking might, the second is if you start off at 25 might.

• Staff: Eruption – Lava font – Arc Brill – Arc Wave – Fireball x3: 54,000-67,000 dmg over 6.8 seconds (start casting at 1200 range, so it’s more like 5.5 seconds in melee)
• D/F: Burning speed – Earth – Arc Brill – Mag Wave – Arc Wave – Air – LW x3: 52,000-63,000 dmg over 5.25 seconds in melee
• Scepter-Focus: DT – Flamewall – Arc Wave – Phoenix – Earth – Arc Brill – Mag Wave – Water – Comet – Shatterstone – Air – Lightning Strike: 60,000-74,000 dmg over 6.35 seconds (starting at 900 range, it’s more like 5.8 sec in melee)
• Scepter-Dagger: DT – Ring of Fire – Arc Brill – Arc Wave – Phoenix – Fire Grab – Air – Lightning Strike – Ride the Lightning: 73,000 – 87,000 dmg over 5.9 seconds (5.3 sec in melee)

Other assumptions: Ascended zerk with scholar/night/force, SnS, potion, banners, fury (durr). 6-6-2-0-0 builds, no tempest defense shenanigans. NO vuln, EA, spotter, or fire signet. I was mid some other project when I saw these posts and just had to say something :/

hi, didnt want to open up a new thread but, in this build :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoNKgAwolECFAGNDEfBEDrA

should i get bolt to heart or 10% more dmg for air, pve build

wich would be the better and more optimal choice overall?

dont judge the build:p

Wyrden.4713:

hi, didnt want to open up a new thread but, in this build :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoNKgAwolECFAGNDEfBEDrA

should i get bolt to heart or 10% more dmg for air, pve build

wich would be the better and more optimal choice overall?

dont judge the build:p

Air Training. Your build is all over the place, though, and it’s hard to see how it will work – especially when you don’t include slot skills.

DEKeyzToChaos.7381:

Wyrden.4713:

hi, didnt want to open up a new thread but, in this build :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoNKgAwolECFAGNDEfBEDrA

should i get bolt to heart or 10% more dmg for air, pve build

wich would be the better and more optimal choice overall?

dont judge the build:p

Air Training. Your build is all over the place, though, and it’s hard to see how it will work – especially when you don’t include slot skills.

i would go for the persisting flames but i want the 3 in water for heals, then these options r left, 1 in arcan cause i am someone whos witches attunements often, there for i would have fury whenever i use hard hittting stuff besides air aa, all traits r damage modifiers, arcan brilliance, arcan wave r the important blast finishers

ye its weird, but i think the dmg loss is minimal, it suffers from perma fury for the team tho

DEKeyzToChaos.7381:

maxinion.8396:

Iris Ng.9845:

Staff: Lava font -> Blast, Blast -> Trash dead.
Dagger: Flamewall -> Burning Speed (to the wall) -> Blast, blast, blast -> Trash dead.
Scepter: … hmmm, wait, let me summon my hammer.

Scepter: “Hmm, can I camp AA lazily without my team noticing so I don’t have to wastea cooldown on LH?”

Really, guys and gals. Really? I thought you knew better.

I’ll give you 2 damage numbers. The first is if you are at 0 might and are the only person stacking might, the second is if you start off at 25 might.

• Staff: Eruption – Lava font – Arc Brill – Arc Wave – Fireball x3: 54,000-67,000 dmg over 6.8 seconds (start casting at 1200 range, so it’s more like 5.5 seconds in melee)
• D/F: Burning speed – Earth – Arc Brill – Mag Wave – Arc Wave – Air – LW x3: 52,000-63,000 dmg over 5.25 seconds in melee
• Scepter-Focus: DT – Flamewall – Arc Wave – Phoenix – Earth – Arc Brill – Mag Wave – Water – Comet – Shatterstone – Air – Lightning Strike: 60,000-74,000 dmg over 6.35 seconds (starting at 900 range, it’s more like 5.8 sec in melee)
• Scepter-Dagger: DT – Ring of Fire – Arc Brill – Arc Wave – Phoenix – Fire Grab – Air – Lightning Strike – Ride the Lightning: 73,000 – 87,000 dmg over 5.9 seconds (5.3 sec in melee)

Other assumptions: Ascended zerk with scholar/night/force, SnS, potion, banners, fury (durr). 6-6-2-0-0 builds, no tempest defense shenanigans. NO vuln, EA, spotter, or fire signet. I was mid some other project when I saw these posts and just had to say something :/

D: sorry keyz!

I mean camp’ing AA after that rotation. There are some places where you have to fight a champ, but want to keep an icebow/LH for a slightly harder fight coming up, and the champ can sometimes survive the initial burst. This is mostly with pugs (let’s say on ACp1, on the gravelings after spider queen, and my conjures may be on cooldown or I want to not waste time waiting for the ice bow at the burrows).

Definitely always do the scepter rotation, everyone~ (And hell, I do it again if it’s long enough that the cooldowns on the burst have faded).

Against the Chanter mobs at Cliffside’s Chest Seals, I would prefer them to BURN fast, clean and no cinders linger. As such, the scepter/x rotation would be terribly long and has much slower turnover. Staff has burning retreat as another burst, and D/F has 2 blast finishers in water attunement, one of them has short CD.

Lightning strike doesn’t work against a group of trash, anyways

Iris Ng.9845:

Against the Chanter mobs at Cliffside’s Chest Seals, I would prefer them to BURN fast, clean and no cinders linger. As such, the scepter/x rotation would be terribly long and has much slower turnover. Staff has burning retreat as another burst, and D/F has 2 blast finishers in water attunement, one of them has short CD.

Lightning strike doesn’t work against a group of trash, anyways

You still don’t have me convinced. Frozen burst has a coefficient of < 0.5, Comet <0.8, making them very weak DPS. Run some DPS tests and get back to me with numbers.

Edit: Zel no helping her!

:O I don’t like to work with numbers nor ever do any DPS tests. All I claimed was from my experience from fractals/dungeons.

Frozen Burst + Comet doesn’t have high damage on their own, but still deals AOE damage when stacking might, especially on the trail of Burning Speed + Flame Wall. Normally against Chanters blobs at level 50, I’d use burning speed+ Frozen Burst + Comet + Magnetic Wave + Ring of Earth → Everything dies at the end of the chain, the only one left is the veteran with aproximately 1/3 of HP. All of them can be chain very quickly, much less than 5 seconds, yet enough to burn all the trashes cleanly. My point is, I would take something deal big enough damage over a short course of rotation, over something which deals big DPS over a lengthy rotation. The goal is still there, kill trash fast before getting any damage. Some of the Scepter burst attack don’t even cleave, so I’m not sure how they count.

I’m sorry for I’m not gonna give you any satisfying answers in numerical terms. I’m pretty sure my experience is not unique or new, so either take it at face value or just let it… rot

DEKeyzToChaos.7381:

Edit: Zel no helping her!

But .. ?
:s

D/F berzerker with spell slinger and strength runes.
perma 25 might stacks with the high speed Dagger auto-attacks. Could add in a lightning hammer instead if you want.

Hi DEKeyz,

i might be wrong, but looking at your numbers, D/F-DPS is not too bad regarding burst damage.

It has more DPS than staff and S/F-range and is only 4-6 % weaker than S/F-melee.

Only S/D-range and S/D-melee does way more DPS than all of the other sets.

But:

- Lightning Strike is only single-target
- Fire Grab has a very high cooldown and might not be ready for the next burst
- If you are able to cast Burning Speed into a wall, your AOE-DPS of D/F will rise significantly on a low cooldown (i use it often as a mini-FGS-#4)
- if your conjured-weapon is on cd or someone stole it (won´t happen in organized groups) you won´t do much damage after the initial burst of S/x

Maybe i am just trying to find arguments for D/F being a good weapon-set even out of fractals. I am quite good in fading out reality. ;-)
I really like the playstyle of this weapon-set, cause it feels, like this is the way an ele is meant to be played. Being able to use the needed skills out of every attunement and immediatly switch back to deal sustained damage.

Another question, if you don´t mind:

In your damage numbers at the top (D/F 6-6-2-0-0: 11580 DPS), was D/F-DPS calculated only with AA or also with Lightning Hammer? Because it should be equal to the other sets after the initial burst/ blast in the 6-6-2-0-0-builds when using Lightning Hammer. Right?

Thx in advance.

D/F is fine, and going D/F+LH for PUGs is a nice, safe way to go at the expense of a couple blast finishers (or if you use those blasts, some DPS – note that the D/F burst combo I listed did not include any of your blasts in water). I personally enjoy the playstyle of D/F as well (okay, I enjoy all of them except maybe staff because it’s boring). My point above with burst number isn’t so much that D/F is bad as much as it is that Scepter burst is pretty solid and shouldn’t be overlooked.

D/F Fire 4 into a wall gives you a coefficient of either 2.4 or 3.6 (plus the flame burst at the end) if a mob were to stand in it, so yes, it is very powerful and greatly boost D/F DPS. I assume 0.6 (plus burst) for my general calculations since a lot of small bosses will only be hit by an average of one tick per second if they’re moving around. By that same logic, Burning Retreat on staff into a wall would also greatly improve staff burst – going from an unwalled coefficient of 0.8 to a walled coefficient of about 4.8 (going by the wiki).

In a lot of situations even with group pulls, there’s a boss, vet, or some sort of tougher mob mixed in that will require the extra single-target DPS of a Lightning Strike, so I think it’s valid to include. Fire Grab does have the long CD which is problematic, but even swapping that out for OH focus gives you another viable burst rotation with more blasts ready to go.

That number (11,580 DPS) was calculated with the D/F auto. Since unwalled D/F burst is slightly lower than unwalled scepter burst, D/F hammer is more like 12.3k DPS under 25 might/vuln, fury, banners, consumables but only cleaves for 11.5k. Again, with Scepter you stack might and do crazy damage, but with Dagger you don’t get to do both at the same time. The other builds also tend to take Arcane Lightning instead of Fresh Air for higher cleave damage.

So let’s compare D/F and S/F.
Both run identical builds of 66200. Both run identical utilities,

• Signet of Fire
• Lightning Hammer
• Arcane Wave
• Arcane Brilliance

Might stack capabilities with D/F is 5 blasts excluding the LH AA blast.
Might stack capabilities with S/F is 6 blasts excluding the LH AA blast, even though the 6th (comet) is rarely utilised unless target is on the fire field.

S/F takes longer time to blast than D/F, making it difficult to have time for 2 additional blast from the LH AA while D/F have an easier time doing this.

The only difference in a DPS rotation I can see is:

• Initial Dragon’s Tooth + Phoenix burst compared to D/F burst
• Lightning strike
• 0-1 blast

Considering other party members should be helping out with might blasts and 25 should be met no matter if the ele has 6 + LH or 5 + LH blasts I see very small difference.
This might be personal preference, but I find D/F having a more dynamic rotation on maintaining the might stacks, aswell as not rending you useless if you ever get locked out of LH.
I love LH with D/F in fractals. With this reasoning I don’t see why it would be bad.

Is the weapon damage the difference? Enlighten me please!

D/F is not a “bad” weapon when you enjoy a content at your own pace. It never reaches the high burst, high damage potential of S/D and S/F in a non- FGS situation. It feels safer and more fluid to use but does not pack enough impact when you race against time in a record run.

As I said before, the main difference is that S/F doesn’t need comet to efficiently stack might, so it uses high DPS blasts throughout. Dragon’s Tooth and Phoenix are really that OP, with a combined coefficient of 5.45, while Comet + Frozen Burst only have a coefficient of 1.19. Moreover, DT should be cast before flamewall, so you actually have more time to stack might inside the fire field with S/F than you would with D/F. You could opt to skip Comet+FB with D/F for higher DPS, but you’d only be able to fit in one LH chain in that same amount of time.

Another difference is builds. Aircamp Scepter builds generally take Air VII + Air X, while D/F usually takes Air X + Air XII. The extra crit damage helps.

Yesterday I tried s/d in a couple of dungeons. I was downed so many times that it was embarrassing, maybe it was a bad group but I cannot play without d/f any more, reflects, evade, many CCs, obsidian flesh, another free skill slot etc. Despite lower dps It still rocks imho and it’s easy to play you can quickly react to any situations.

Dps is not that terrible, last time in CoE at golem P2 and P3 I had agro all the time and started last at attacking without LH, other ele was s/d with LH meta he said, was gearchecked. Please note that I’m always puging

Pacer.6143:

Yesterday I tried s/d in a couple of dungeons. I was downed so many times that it was embarrassing, maybe it was a bad group but I cannot play without d/f any more, reflects, evade, many CCs, obsidian flesh, another free skill slot etc. Despite lower dps It still rocks imho and it’s easy to play you can quickly react to any situations.

Dps is not that terrible, last time in CoE at golem P2 and P3 I had agro all the time and started last at attacking without LH, other ele was s/d with LH meta he said, was gearchecked. Please note that I’m always puging

In my honest opinion, I really feel that D/F is the better choice for general PvE Instanced Play. If you’re playing with an organized group or trying to push a record, that’s a different story, but in casual PUGing, D/F Fresh Air still offers good utility (a bit of might stacking and a bit of vuln, the Conjures, and the Glyphs) and respectable damage.

I feel like we are just echoing each other’s sentiments.

How are people getting these dps records?

I have never seen 14,000 dps roll on my screen even if I were to mentally add it in my mind!

Chase.8415:

How are people getting these dps records?

I have never seen 14,000 dps roll on my screen even if I were to mentally add it in my mind!

Full ascended + proper food + proper potions + proper runes + proper sigils + 25 might + 25 vuln + fury + banners + EA + scholar bonus + (frostspotter?) = massive damage

Each of those things adds 5-25%. Take out a few of them, and you’ll be doing 30-40% less damage easily. Take them all out, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re doing half the damage that DEKeyz posts.

Ya like Maxinion said, its usually fully buffed dps. Its the best way to make comparaison between different build since if someone do the math with 10 might, the other with some vulnerability, the other don’t take into account fury, etc that would be super messy and we just couldn’t make comparison between different build. Ppl that reach that kind of DPS are really rare. Not only do you need to max your character, but you also need the right composition to full buff the party, which is rarely done. But anyway, like I said, that’s mostly for comparison.

Don’t forget that ele staff stuff hits faster than once per second. So to get 14k DPS on a staff you’d actually only need to be seeing numbers in the 8kish range between Lava Font and Fireball.