I’ve been gone a lot recently thanks to school and work, so I haven’t gotten to play near as much as I’d like since the beginning of September. At the beginning of September, we had two major problems:
We had to work twice as hard to get half the results of any other profession.
We sucked beyond understanding, reason, and possibility underwater.
Not to mention half our skills were bugged or the graphics sucked. Our only real saving grace was the blast combos from Evasive Arcana. Every other class was better than us at whatever we chose to do, and EA was the only way we could actually fulfill all the roles in a reasonable time choice (i.e., actually be flexible in a way that let us change what we were doing faster than 10 seconds from when you want it).
Now, I come back to find that we still have to work our tails off to barely be equivalent to what the other professions do with auto-attack and that we’re still unbelievably awful underwater. Some of the bugs are better, but then they took away the blast combos.
Everyone pretty much knew that the game stil wasn’t actually ready when it launched at the end of August. And while still not having not having guesting (one of the most advertised features of the game pre-launch) sucks, having these kinds of issues with a profession after three months is simply inexcusable.
I was as hardcore about this game as anyone during the betas. Before launch I managed to have 150 hours logged in the game. I, with many other people, thought the Elementalist was absolutely fantastic and fell in love with it the moment I touched it during BWE1. But at launch, it was simply meh. Three months later, it’s still meh.
When will we actually see some real balance?
Just going to put my two cents in here. I have no problem in underwater combat. If anything i gain the upper hand. If you watch videos of ele gameplay and also find the build that works for you, i dont think you will have the feeling of being under powered. I do tournaments with my guild, and we dont win everytime but I do hold my own fairly well against all the classes.
ps. I am far from being a “pro player” if anything I am average at best.
Not to mention half our skills were bugged or the graphics sucked.
That hasn’t changed at all, unless you play staff (most staff skills are fine) any other combination has lots and lots of bugged skills, bugs that exist since BWE1….
I don’t get all this “we suck at underwater combat” complaining. We have so much choice… just move, don’t stand there like a log. Move and use those kitten spells and you will melt stuff. I mean, if I have a complaint about underwater combat is that NPC pathing is so sluggish, you can literally circle-strafe them to death without even getting hit once.
It’s so easy you can drop all your armor even. It doesn’t matter, few things can actually hit you if you do it right. Combine that with our AoE spells and what’s there to complain about? That you can’t nuke a single target real quick? No, but you can destroy a whole bunch of them at once. Just like on land, in fact.
I don’t get all this “we suck at underwater combat” complaining. We have so much choice… just move, don’t stand there like a log. Move and use those kitten spells and you will melt stuff. I mean, if I have a complaint about underwater combat is that NPC pathing is so sluggish, you can literally circle-strafe them to death without even getting hit once.
It’s so easy you can drop all your armor even. It doesn’t matter, few things can actually hit you if you do it right. Combine that with our AoE spells and what’s there to complain about? That you can’t nuke a single target real quick? No, but you can destroy a whole bunch of them at once. Just like on land, in fact.
Do pls show me how you “melt” the face of non-stop dodging thieves, bunker engineers and guardians while in an underwater scenarios
I think the “doom and gloom” is a bit over the top, but it would be nice if EA was a little more useful.
I love my Elementalist and do very well with it, to be honest.
I don’t get all this “we suck at underwater combat” complaining. We have so much choice… just move, don’t stand there like a log. Move and use those kitten spells and you will melt stuff. I mean, if I have a complaint about underwater combat is that NPC pathing is so sluggish, you can literally circle-strafe them to death without even getting hit once.
It’s so easy you can drop all your armor even. It doesn’t matter, few things can actually hit you if you do it right. Combine that with our AoE spells and what’s there to complain about? That you can’t nuke a single target real quick? No, but you can destroy a whole bunch of them at once. Just like on land, in fact.
He’s talking about PvP, not you circle-strafing mobs in PvE. No one really cares how easily you can kill mobs in PvE.
He’s talking about PvP, not you circle-strafing mobs in PvE. No one really cares how easily you can kill mobs in PvE.
I think PvE is worst. I have lost count of the number of times the mob resetting during underwater combat because I decided to move a bit to the right.
I bet this is the main reason why most ppl face-tank in underwater combat.
OP, I don’t think our profession is hated by devs: it’s just extremely complex to balance. Give them time, things may get better.
and now:
I don’t get all this “we suck at underwater combat” complaining. We have so much choice… just move, don’t stand there like a log.
For my Aura Cannon build is a total disaster, ‘cause it’s completely based on combos and underwater we have none.
This doesn’t prevent me to pull out some trick, but it feels like learning a complete alternative profession. I think underwater combat is an epic idea, but need improvements…
(edited by Moderator)
Rock anchor them to the bottom → Tidal Wave → Ice Wall → Ice Wall Detonate
It kills most people. You can’t base ele balance underwater on broken thief mechanics that let them evade forever without making the ele brokenly overpowered too.
The water mechanics are somewhat buggy:
- Missing hits on target
- Strafing results in enemy resetting and becoming invulnerable
- Overall movements between the two parties is weird at times
I don’t get all this “we suck at underwater combat” complaining. We have so much choice… just move, don’t stand there like a log. Move and use those kitten spells and you will melt stuff. I mean, if I have a complaint about underwater combat is that NPC pathing is so sluggish, you can literally circle-strafe them to death without even getting hit once.
First: you haven’t set foot in PvP before, have you?
Second: so much choice… in one weapon. A lot of the more “fun” skills or more useful in PvE are blocked out for underwater combat. Our only elite is the suckpool (though at least we have one to use underwater now, that’s an improvement).
Third: I’m glad you can circle strafe and kill a single target after five minutes. I’m not complaining that it doesn’t work at all, just that it sucks. Other professions don’t take NEAR as long to kill a single mob underwater. To meet the damage of my AUTO ATTACK above water, I have to hit every button I have underwater. Forget the damage I can do above water when I actually use the other 16 skills on my first bar. We’re back to the “elementalists have to work twice as hard as anyone else for half the results” thing here.
Four: Fighting one mob is okay. Fighting three is really starting to push it simply because of how long it takes to kill and our limited ability to protect ourselves against multiple opponents or opponents that aren’t tightly grouped or opponents that actually move around. Yet, other professions can handle multiple mobs underwater without problem. I just want some equality.
OP, I don’t think our profession is hated by devs: it’s just extremely complex to balance. Give them time, things may get better.
and now:
I don’t get all this “we suck at underwater combat” complaining. We have so much choice… just move, don’t stand there like a log.
For my Aura Cannon build is a total disaster, ‘cause it’s completely based on combos and underwater we have none.
This doesn’t prevent me to pull out some trick, but it feels like learning a complete alternative profession. I think underwater combat is an epic idea, but need improvements…
I gave them there months. For a company that likes to think itself highly dedicated to quality, I expect better after three months. At least some changes. The only significan changes we’ve gotten in the last three months to our underwater combat have been changing suckpool to be useable and then nerfing it shortly thereafter. How about letting us actually have a bit of damage?
Also, you did kind of hit the nail on the head at the end: with all the skills that don’t work underwater, it’s hard to have a build that translates well when you go for a swim. Your above water build, that you use 90 percent of the time, is set a specific way. Then, when you go underwater, a lot of the more popular utility skills for PvE are suddenly barred from you. In my case, only one of my three preferred utilities for above water combat are usable underwater. It’s a problem.
I just want to see the devs finally do something about how one of the potentially most fun classes is by far the most underpowered one.
Our underwater weapon is extremely unfriendly to condition damage builds and overall does not have enough active defense, which is what ele is all about. Especially considering we can’t use some of our cantrips underwater, this really makes underwater combat a pain.
It’s not that the devs hate the ele prof.
It’s that they believe that we are perfectly on par with other professions and pretty good where we are. Whether we are I wouldn’t know, but there’s nothing but endless debate.
I personally feel we just an overall buff giving us the sheer power justifying our squishyness.
Promoting builds outside of D/D auramancer cantrips.
Uniting traits to fit promoting smart attunement shifting and allowing for specialization of a role (and attunement) without making you feel useless/not getting any benefits outside of it.
But hey, there’s probably a bunch of posts out there saying these things better than I am with better evidence to back it up.
We also have no auras underwater T_T
Whoever designed our underwater kit must have completely forgotten about how eles work :/
No auras, no combos, no conjures, no elementals, no storms
We also have no auras underwater T_T
Whoever designed our underwater kit must have completely forgotten about how eles work :/No auras, no combos, no conjures, no elementals, no storms
And yet enemy damage is exactly the same as on land…
Totally agreee – underwater fighting system is disadvantageous.
Fittingly enough, water attunement seems to kick butt underwater.
I think the devs haven’t grasped, or were slow to grasp, just how important they made combos to the profession.
A single blast finisher on a 10 sec cooldown, used for Might stacking, can change TOTAL damage output by 10-15%.
I get that figure by looking at tooltips and deciding one stack of Might adds about 2% to direct and condition damage alike, and from there by waving my hands about boon duration and so on.
Fittingly enough, water attunement seems to kick butt underwater.
Oddly, yeah. I pretty much just stick to water attunement underwater. Signets work well underwater. Signet of fire will help with DPS and water will help keep the mobs off you and lower their dps.
I don’t get all this “we suck at underwater combat” complaining. We have so much choice… just move, don’t stand there like a log. Move and use those kitten spells and you will melt stuff. I mean, if I have a complaint about underwater combat is that NPC pathing is so sluggish, you can literally circle-strafe them to death without even getting hit once.
First: you haven’t set foot in PvP before, have you?
How about next time you clearly indicate you are complaining about underwater PvP, instead of creating a thread with a blanket title that the devs “hate” Elementalists. This game is not all about PvP and most definitely not about underwater PvP, so stop assuming people know what your particular pet peeve is all about.
And yes. You have to use all 20 skills. Just like on land. Deal with it or roll a warrior.
Third: I’m glad you can circle strafe and kill a single target after five minutes. I’m not complaining that it doesn’t work at all, just that it sucks. Other professions don’t take NEAR as long to kill a single mob underwater. To meet the damage of my AUTO ATTACK above water, I have to hit every button I have underwater. Forget the damage I can do above water when I actually use the other 16 skills on my first bar. We’re back to the “elementalists have to work twice as hard as anyone else for half the results” thing here.
Four: Fighting one mob is okay. Fighting three is really starting to push it simply because of how long it takes to kill and our limited ability to protect ourselves against multiple opponents or opponents that aren’t tightly grouped or opponents that actually move around. Yet, other professions can handle multiple mobs underwater without problem. I just want some equality.
No, fighting a champion takes five (ok I lie, fifteen) minutes. I simply do not encounter such problems in PvE underwater…. if anything, it’s even easier to kill multiple mobs, and do it just as quickly as on land. Sure, you have to pay attention which skills you use when, so that you CC mobs before you use static AoE on them to maximize damage and so on, but really, I haven’t noticed such a drastic drop in effectiveness underwater. If anything, since we have so many AoE underwater skills, we can actually handle multiple mobs better than other professions. But you HAVE to circle strafe or you die real quick.
We have a ton of CC underwater, we got blinds, AoE blinds, shotgun bleeds and damage, stuns, evades, big blasts… yeah, so each can’t do comparable damage to other profession skills, but can you imagine how OP we would be if each of our 20 skills would be on par with other professions’ five?
Nevermind that some professions can abuse the hell out of certain underwater skills, that’s a design/balance issue for THEM, not us. Can’t balance the game around unbalanced or poorly designed skills, it goes the other way around.
That’s a lot of words to say that underwater PvE is fine. Please, enlighten us with your glorious PvE adventures.
Oh I think I wasted enough time discussing first world problems. The only thing I find hilarious about all this wailing is that virtually every class forum has identical complaints… you would think every class sucks except that they always claim some other class is better and so much more awesome.
Gaudrath made some good points (that apply to both PvE and PvP).
Honestly, I rather enjoy underwater combat as an elementalist. In PvE, I have loads of AoE abilities for killing multiple mobs at once (just need to line them up or group them together). In PvP, I have loads of CC and some moderate spike damage skills (mostly in water attunement). Sure, we have to hit more buttons than some other classes, but this should be nothing new. It’s how elementalist is played on land and underwater.
I wish we could have a separate undewater trait selection like we do utility skills, but all professions have traits that become utterly useless underwater. That’s nothing unique to the elementalist. If you’re having troubles, consider changing your traits so they’ll be more useful while you learn your underwater skills. For example, Blasting Staff and Evasive Arcana do nothing underwater. I’d suggest trying some alternatives, it takes less than 5 seconds to swap them out (helps if you know the roman numeral you want, though). Have you bound swim down to a key, yet?
Elementalist is amazing underwater (unless you’re running a condition damage build); it’s the other professions that suck. Thief’s perma evade is hilarious for defending points in PvP though.
0/10/0/30/30 PVT weapons and armors if u like and have fun.. i rarely ever die in any aspecs of the game unless im being attacked by atleast 15 mobs or 5 players. other than that im doing just fine.
I LOVE elementalist, there not perfect but there not horrible either. Elementalist don’t really need evasive arcana anyway, they have plenty of blast finishers and combo fields as it is.
The only thing I WANT is conjured weapons to be a toggle like how the engineers have bomb kits. I would make a norn and model her after Ashe from League of legends with an ice bow.
Gauldrath, I wasn’t saying this complaint is only about PvP. I was just saying that your comment wouldn’t apply in PvP in any way shape or form. You can’t simply circle strafe other players.
Also, if you’re so great at underwater PvE, please show us. If you can really handle tons and tons of mobs with ease, then by all means please go record a solid chunk of underwater game play and post it (uneditted so we know you’re not just picking your best 30 second shots out of hours and hours of gameplay).
Also, underwater isn’t the only problem with ele’s. I’m not complaining you have to use every skill. I’m complaining that using every skill gets me not much more damage than simply auto-attacking as fire above ground.
Kaleden, separate underwater traits would be fine, but I certainly don’t see them doing it. Every class loses skills when they go underwater, but not every class loses many of its most commonly used utilities when they go underwater. We lose our elemental and all of our conjure weapons along with one of our heals, Lightning Flash, and Glyph of Storms. We’re also stuck with just the suckpool for our elite.
Thieves are the only other profession that lose so many skills underwater like we do, but then they get to be practically invulnerable for it. We get to be mediocre at best.
Alurazle, I still love my elementalist. I’m just tired of the devs leaving us in the shape we’re in after so long.
Without evasive arcana, there’s nothing we can do that other professions can’t do just as well as (if not better than) us with considerably less effort. Our only advantage is that we can supposedly be the most flexible since we get four bars with different themes to switch in and out of.
When we had Evasive Arcana giving us blasts, I could start a fight by dropping down a ton of might on the whole party, then switch to put a minute of chill on the boss, then switch to bomb heals within the group and switch back for more might, etc., etc. I could be doing any number of different things within a few seconds.
The problem now without Evasive Arcana is that we don’t have that many blasts. I can’t stop after dropping two combos of might on the party and suddenly start dropping AoE heal bombs instead. Before I had as much as three dodges, Arcane Wave, and Eruption for blast combos. If I dropped down an Eruption followed by Lava Font and rolled in for a blast to drop might right as the party got hit, I could switch to water, drop a Gesyer and use Arcane Wave and the other two dodges to get some AoE heal bombs off. Now, I only have Eruption and Arcane Wave. If I drop the two might combos and then need healing, I’ll have another 9 seconds before I can get back into Earth for Eruption to follow it with a Geyser. I’d be able to do that a second time before Arcane Wave came back up.
We’re no longer at a point where we can be reasonably flexible to do things we need to do when we need to do them. It’s fine to be working tons harder than everyone else while not necessarily being as effective as them at any one thing if we can switch around what we’re doing when we’re doing it. It’s not fine if we’re not able to switch like that until it’s too late and the moments have passed.
If you think that Ele is UP, you probably don’t know how to play. Prove me wrong.
If you think that Ele is UP, you probably don’t know how to play. Prove me wrong.
If you think that Ele = D/D, then you´re wrong, the class have also other weapon sets, which are really UP compared to D/D.
Prove me wrong…
Also, if you’re so great at underwater PvE, please show us. If you can really handle tons and tons of mobs with ease, then by all means please go record a solid chunk of underwater game play and post it
To be fair, I did notice that there’s quite a few mobs underwater (almost all) that can be kited pretty much indefinitely without getting hit, by just swimming in circles. in fact, we could probably solo the underwater fractal boss if we wanted to, just by constantly swimming circles.
That doesn’t make us good though, it makes the mobs suck.
If you think that Ele = D/D, then you´re wrong, the class have also other weapon sets, which are really UP compared to D/D.
Prove me wrong…
I use Staff only and I can solo the whole Grent’s Event in Orr AND I use full Berserker set for that AND I’m the last one who dies on Fractals lvl 12+ AND I can wipe a half of the zerg attacking the gate at my keep… Where’s your Dwayna now?
My build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Post-Your-Build-Thread/page/2#post910030
Ele – easy to play, hard to master.
If you think that Ele = D/D, then you´re wrong, the class have also other weapon sets, which are really UP compared to D/D.
Prove me wrong…I use Staff only and I can solo the whole Grent’s Event in Orr AND I use full Berserker set for that AND I’m the last one who dies on Fractals lvl 12+ AND I can wipe a half of the zerg attacking the gate at my keep… Where’s your Dwayna now?
My build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Post-Your-Build-Thread/page/2#post910030
Ele – easy to play, hard to master.
Wow, this is one genuinely bad post.
“I’m last to die!”
“I can wipe half a zerg by myself!”
The devs don’t hate us, we’re just difficult to balance because of the breadth of our abilities. The devs certainly don’t want there to be an Ele build that does everything better than every other profession, but it’d be all too easy to enable such a thing given just a few balancing missteps. We’re capable of doing all things quite well from the get go, be it tanking, damage, control or support. So how do let us specialize without enabling us to simply be better than everyone else? That’s the difficult part.
So this is probably why the devs have been apprehensive about tweaking our weapon skills. Changes to those apply to all types of builds. Raising the damage on a skill to help our glass cannon builds also raises the damage on that skill for bunkers. There are some skills for which can universally be agreed that they need help (like shatterstone), but it’s mostly like walking on eggshells.
This means that the deficit in under-performing builds mostly needs to be made up for with traits. This is, of course, it’s own problem because our trait lines are a spiderweb of interactions. We can’t have too many build-defining traits too low in the lines because then every build can incorporate them. We can’t have too many build-defining traits too high in the lines because then they’ll lock us out of options.
The problem as it currently is cannot be solved by merely tweaking some of our traits. There needs to be relatively drastic changes to the structures of a few of the lines (notably Air and Fire, while Arcana’s deathgrip on us needs to be relaxed). That takes a lot of time and planning, so it’s understandable why it’s not happened yet.
We’ll see what happens on the 14th and go from there.
My 2 pennies worth on this is simply this.
In all the MMO’s RPG’s Ect I’ve ever played the Ele has always been the glass canons that thrive on huge AoE and singular damage, sometimes even slower than most.
Yet here they might as well be the NPC class of the game as fewer and fewer people are playing the Ele and switching to the Thief, Warrior or Ranger in that order of preference.
Yes I expect to be killed with ease if caught unawares and is often the case when faced with a thief that 3/5 hits me but I’d also love to have the damage output that the above three can do, because at most Ele’s are lucky if they get anywhere near that with a crit.
Plus if you take a close look at the Ele skills they are predominantly AoE skills no matter what weapon combo you use but Anets AoE limit of just 5 makes the class virtually redundant and useless against a vast horde not only in WvW but also in PvE as well.
Now I personally don’t play sPvP and wouldn’t even know where to start but PvE and more to the point WvW which I might add is my favorite part of GW2 despite all the hacks, exploits and bugs.
Now every other class has the weapons switch and the Ele doesn’t another major flaw in the game design but I can live with that.
Do the dev’s hate Ele’s well in 5v5 PvP match ups they have it right but in PvE and WvW yes it does seem that the dev’s hate the Ele.
So come on Anet show us Ele players some love and unleash our AoE’s to limitless in PvE and WvW.
Just to answer the question (haven’t read through the whole topic):
Dev’s do not hate Elementalists. What I do believe they hate (or atleast dislike) is whiny lil’ people constantly making complaints about the most absurd things you can think of where pretty much everything has the base “That guy killed me doing this and that while I was noob and couldn’t counter it so my proff must be UP!!”
OR
“OMG that thing was nerfed and now my build isn’t quite what it used to be and I’m a noob and can’t addapt so instead of making a new build I’ma go beeach and whine on forum”.
There’s NOTHING wrong with Elementalist besides a few bugged stuff. It’s not UP, nor OP. The Anet dev team is constantly working towards making this game as balanced and awesome as possible, and telling them they’re stupid, that they are doing a good job and that they don’t give a rats butthole about the game is a kitten up way to repay them.
Quit your whining and crawl back to your hole or give them contructive feedback. (“This is bad, ugly and doesn’t work like I want it to” is not constuctive feedback.)
(edited by Calle.8746)
I’d like to see the ultimate forum PvP:
Get all of the “omg my class is the poorest class, woe is me” people into one thread, and they can compete on whose class is the most picked on by the devs.
Presumably Rangers will win, but I don’t play a ranger so I’m not sure.
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