Guild Wars 2

The two traits are exactly the same, both give 50% endurance regeneration, so why is the ranger’s one a minor adept trait (5 point) while the engineer’s a major grandmaster trait (30 points)?

While we are at this comparison thing.
Why do ele get 2% damage bonus from boons with water 25 when engineers only get 1% >;c

Guessing you mean the invigorating speed which is vigor (100%endurance regeneration). Combined with adrenal you will have 150% endurance regen. You can also add sigil of superior energy that gives half of your endurance back when you switch weapons.

Raijinn.9065:

Guessing you mean the invigorating speed which is vigor (100%endurance regeneration). Combined with adrenal you will have 150% endurance regen. You can also add sigil of superior energy that gives half of your endurance back when you switch weapons.

The guy that recently posted the SD burst video said he tested it and said Vigor and Adrenal Implant do not stack.

I tested them and noticed that they do stack.
Going from 0 endurance to full is about a 2-3s difference between using only vigor and using them both.

Natural Vigor
Adrenal Implant

Just struck me as yet another imbalance that a ranger minor trait is the same as one that engi needs a full investment of trait points to get. Adrenal Implant should be boosted to 100% or get another benefit to compensate.

Raijinn.9065:

Guessing you mean the invigorating speed which is vigor (100%endurance regeneration). Combined with adrenal you will have 150% endurance regen. You can also add sigil of superior energy that gives half of your endurance back when you switch weapons.

No, he is comparing our adrenal with a rangers natural vigor trait. They both do the same but rangers unlock it way early while ours is grandmaster.

Consider the fact that engineers also get 10% endurance back with every use of a toolbelt skill as a 5-point trait. This allows us to compete with the 50% bonus.

In addition to the 5% recharge per second you get as normal endurance recharge, you also get 10% with toolbelt skill use. Rangers get a 7.5% fixed endurance recharge.

We can also get a 5 second vigor (which can turn into a 6.5 second vigor if traited fully in alchemy) buff whenever we get swiftness (5 second recharge, of course!).

Then at the end you have the +50% endurance regen. So if you go for the 50% endurance regen bonus, you get not only a 7.5% / sec endurance recharge, but also automatically get a 10% on the spot endurance recharge on toolbelt use.

The vigor upon swiftness trait is much better anyway. It requires some extra setup, either through crits in the firearms tree, or with speedy kits… But it’s just so good.

Adrenal Implant is quite frankly, filler until ANet comes up with something good to put there. lol

So you think a grandmaster trait is just equal to a minor (and it just need 5 point!) is fine ? We really need some fix about our Adrenal Implant.

Dog face.9253:

So you think a grandmaster trait is just equal to a minor (and it just need 5 point!) is fine ? We really need some fix about our Adrenal Implant.

If you combine them together, the Engie traits for endurance regen far outweigh the endurance regen traits for the Ranger, both subtle (5-point and 15-point traits) and active (+50% endurance regen rate).

As for the post about a ranger signet having a +50% endurance on weapon swap: We have an elixir that breaks stuns AND gives 100% endurance back.

Sporadicus.1028:

Dog face.9253:

So you think a grandmaster trait is just equal to a minor (and it just need 5 point!) is fine ? We really need some fix about our Adrenal Implant.

If you combine them together, the Engie traits for endurance regen far outweigh the endurance regen traits for the Ranger, both subtle (5-point and 15-point traits) and active (+50% endurance regen rate).

As for the post about a ranger signet having a +50% endurance on weapon swap: We have an elixir that breaks stuns AND gives 100% endurance back.

You describe the core of the problem: engineers need to combine traits to finally get a better effect than one minor ranger trait.
While one grandmaster trait alone should be better already.

So you describe the exact reason why this isn’t fair now.

This stronger effect is exactly how it should be with ONLY the grandmaster trait.
That alone should outperform a minor trait for rangers.

Of course it should end up better than the minor ranger trait.
But it should do that with just the grandmaster trait alone, because the rangers already get so much from their minor 5 point trait!

So ALL current engineer endurence effects should be balled up in that one grandmaster trait, while the other traits get different effects alltogether…

Sporadicus.1028:

As for the post about a ranger signet having a +50% endurance on weapon swap: We have an elixir that breaks stuns AND gives 100% endurance back.

Giving up a skill slot as engineer hurts our so called ’versatility!
That elixir R eats up a full kit for example.

You are comparing the cooldown of elixir R to that of a weapon swap?
Of course the effect should be stronger… waaaay stronger!

Elixir R actually isn’t that bad. Yes, it eats up a slot just like the signet does, but it doesn’t mess up the rhythm of an engineer’s play like a ranger would have to do to get a free dodge.

A ranger loses the ability to swap back to his favored weapon for 8-9 seconds in order to get 50% endurance. This can throw a player’s rhythm off balance, while the engineer can keep chugging with whatever kit or pistol/rifle he is using.

As for the 5-point Tools Trait, I think it’s about equal to the +50% recharge trait. If you look, traits that don’t require manual activation give lower amounts (the ele vs eng +% dmg per boon trait is an strange anomaly) than traits that are subtle and don’t require manual action.

The reason why the Grandmaster Tools talent isn’t stronger is that combined with the 5-point trait and the 15-point trait you have a lot more ways to gain endurance than a ranger would. To make this trait any more powerful would make the Engie able to dodge indefinitely and make him an OP troll-eng.

Edit: I was thinking that someone was referring to a signet that gives 50% endurance on swap, not a sigil. I spent about a half hour looking through the Wikis for that nonexistent signet.

I’ll drop the whole Elixir R talk. That was rubbish.

Versatility for the Engineer is traiting all over the place to get the same effect other professions get for free as a minor trait.

Pannonica, we an get 15% Endurance regen per second with the 5-point trait if you use a toolbelt skill per second. Combine that with the Grandmaster trait and that’s 17.5% per second.

Let’s try to be more accurate/realistic/useful on these forums. Engineers have some very real, very serious problems that a few very good players can apparently overcome. That does not mean anyone should

1) Insist that engineers are fine, and if you are having trouble you need to l2p;
2) Insist that Anet hates engineers and is actively ignoring the problems.

In regards to endurance back on toolbelt skills: I think you are mistaking toolbelt for toolkit? It’s impossible to use a toolbelt skill every second for longer than four seconds, because there are only four toolbelt skills. Also, it’s just 10%.

I think we would be better off to focus constructive suggestions on our better builds, i.e. tanky kits and static discharge burst. What buffs would those builds need to land a place on a paid tourney team, or a level 35 fractal group?

I am referring to the toolbelt skills, yes.

You’re right in that it’s not a sustained 15% endurance per second. It’s a burst skill, and burst skills are notable for having long cooldowns but higher effect than constant or passive skills.

If you go farther down the trait line (15 points) your toolbelt skills recharge at 25% health. Not a lot of help, but this also gives you the ability to once again refill your endurancevia those skills.

Not sustained, but in my eyes certainly more useful than a flat 7.5% per second.

Fair enough. Engineers certainly have good tricks for getting endurance back. I wasn’t sure where you were going with the average percentages back per second, since we were talking about gaining endurance on skill use. Over a given period of time, those numbers are probably pretty accurate for typical builds.

You are all arguing over something that is completely situational so your on-paper discussion doesnt carry over to actual in-game use.

@OP
Yes you are right, for a Grandmaster Trait in the tools tree Adrenaline Implant is a lackluster trait they should be lower in the tree or just removed, especially since like ppl pointed out in this thread we have many other options of endurance regen.

Also a person that does nothing but dodges is not a OP troll, they are just an annoyance that is also doing nothing for damage.

This trait, along with many others needs to be reworked to be a better option against our other GM traits.