Eng still highest dps class
1 2
Where are you getting that lv 3 Kill Shot is a 2 coef while Volley is a 3 coef?
Where are you getting that lv 3 Kill Shot is a 2 coef while Volley is a 3 coef?
mists on my war.
2194 power
killshot 1896
volley 2775
x*1095*2194/2600=1896
x=2.05
x*1095*2194/2600=2775
x=3
Did you actually try using the skills? Not lining up with my own experience at all.
Killshot has a bugged tooltip.
Did you actually try using the skills? Not lining up with my own experience at all.
Killshot has a bugged tooltip.
yeah, im going to set some time aside and break down some steady weapons. there clearly some bugs in there.
Also dunno if you factored it in, but Killshot will also get +30% damage just for being a burst skill with that build. The thing in the traits tree is bugged to say +3%, but afaik it gives the full 30% (last I checked it took steady Killshot from 140ish damage to 180ish on fat golem).
Also dunno if you factored it in, but Killshot will also get +30% damage just for being a burst skill with that build. The thing in the traits tree is bugged to say +3%, but afaik it gives the full 30% (last I checked it took steady Killshot from 140ish damage to 180ish on fat golem).
hrm. your right, I did forget that. Still not coming up with those values.
If its 30% not, 3%, I would expect to see that get adjusted at some point even so.
Also does not explain the 13k volley or 3k auto attack.
Please post a video of you doing more DPS than this warrior.
The warrior rifle auto attack is rubbish. but i never thought of using kill shot with crit builds. I need to test this.
Over all the engineer rifle does more damage from auto attack.
My spreed sheet shows it dps.
(edited by Mell.4873)
Testing via 0 traits + steady rifle, Volley has basically a 3 coefficient. Kill Shot lvl. 3 has a ~3.25 coefficient.
If you just tack on a *1.3 modifier on your 2600 target at the end for the + 30% burst damage (no idea if its multiplicative or additive with another modifier), you hit roughly 18.5k max. Doing the same against low armor target puts it at around 24k max. Toss some vulnerability or extra might around and it seems plenty feasible to hit 26k + for a single Kill Shot on a GC 80, I guess. Whether or not that’s how it actually is calculated (+Burst Damage%) I’m not sure, but for now it seems to fit.
Plugging in 3 for Volley and assuming full crits seems like it’ll be able to hit 17k max with your layout. Don’t forget that each shot does the same amount of damage and is decided as soon as you fire (not including crits – they’re all calculated separately as to whether each will crit or not), so assuming your crit is high enough, you just need to have the RNG gods favoring you for that first hit really (bad way of wording it but I think you get the idea).
At some point, I really ought to make a full spreadsheet with the coefficients on everything for everyone laid out lol.
I’m tired of the idea that you can throw a grenade further than you can fire a rifle. I wanted a long-range option in WvW, but the rifle totally sucks for that and damage compared to grenade spam, so even when I’m not traited grenadier, grenades were still better.
It might seem like small potatoes to complain about one kit getting nerfed, and I didn’t ever spec grenadier, but engineers don’t have anything that comes close.
Turrets are a joke unless you super combo meta by detonation and if anyone tells me that’s what I need to do to be effective I’m gonna reroll right now.
Elixirs are nice, but you have to use a kit with them, because trying to do damage with pistols/rifle is sad times. Kit+elixirs means you aren’t running anything else at all and are at the mercy of the cooldown.
Gadgets? You mean those things I didn’t even spend skill points on until I was nearly 80? They even looked horrible on paper.
Alright, I will have to admit I really really like toolkit though. It actually does damage, has a ridiculously powerful AoE cripple on a short cooldown, a block and a ranged pull ability. I use it 80% of the time for everything. I don’t see many engineers use it though, although I don’t see many engineers period. Whenever I see a character using something weird and I don’t know what it is, I see he’s an engineer using the same old junk I am and I’m a tribal savage that’s seeing himself for the first time in a mirror.
(edited by Chickenshoes.6250)
Also dunno if you factored it in, but Killshot will also get +30% damage just for being a burst skill with that build. The thing in the traits tree is bugged to say +3%, but afaik it gives the full 30% (last I checked it took steady Killshot from 140ish damage to 180ish on fat golem).
Tested. its 3%.
I have found something though.
%buffs are multiplicative.
Killshot is 3.25 max as was corrected. The tooltip lies. at higher levels.
3.25*1205*3084/2600=4645.3 hit*1.12*1.03*1.1*1.05 (zerk power, discipline, scholar, force)=6189*2.41=14,915 max crit kill shot vs high armor. 16407 vs bleeding.
3.25*1205*3084/2000=6039hit*1.12*1.03*1.1*1.05 (zerk power, discipline, scholar, force)=80460*2.41=19391 max crit kill shot vs high armor. 21330 vs bleeding.
so there we go.
Also dunno if you factored it in, but Killshot will also get +30% damage just for being a burst skill with that build. The thing in the traits tree is bugged to say +3%, but afaik it gives the full 30% (last I checked it took steady Killshot from 140ish damage to 180ish on fat golem).
Tested. its 3%.
I have found something though.
%buffs are multiplicative.
Killshot is 3.25 max as was corrected. The tooltip lies. at higher levels.3.25*1205*3084/2600=4645.3 hit*1.12*1.03*1.1*1.05 (zerk power, discipline, scholar, force)=6189*2.41=14,915 max crit kill shot vs high armor. 16407 vs bleeding.
3.25*1205*3084/2000=6039hit*1.12*1.03*1.1*1.05 (zerk power, discipline, scholar, force)=80460*2.41=19391 max crit kill shot vs high armor. 21330 vs bleeding.so there we go.
Is this “multiplicative” %buff thing a bug?
Hrm, that’s strange. Wonder where my variance came from then. I don’t use tooltips, only actual numbers from testing since so many tooltips suck and are flat out wrong in this game, and the variance is lower than a crit can account for. Perhaps I just derped and was looking at the totally wrong numbers lol. I was doing skill coefficients for all the classes other than Ranger/Necro and the burst thing was something I checked on a whim, so I guess I just remember or read incorrectly.
Edit: Just tested it, and yeah it is 3%. I must have been thinking of something else lol. Just common sense should have told me that remembering I hit 140/180 with a 3.25 skill was wrong to begin with.
Also, just noticed, but how are you calculating crits? You’re using a x2.41 modifier for crits. Base crit damage modifier is x1.5, Zerk gear + traits should already push you up to x2.5+ afaik in WvW/PvE environment. I thought crit damage bonuses is all additive with each other.
(edited by omgwtflolbbl.7142)
What do we have?
r1 .65p, .8as
r3 1.6p at 100, 1p at 400, .8as, 4 stacks of 4s bleed at 100, 1 stack of 4s bleed at 400
r4 1p, .8as
r5 .9p leap, 1.8p land, 3 stacks vul on leap and land. A point blank r5 is 2.7 and 6stacks of vul.
rifle mod, 10%, force 5%, vs bleeding 5%, 10% scholar.
option, 5% with end below 100%
option. 10% when end full, + 30% crit damage =46% modifer, + 30% crit damage.
option. 1% per boon, might on elixirs. 50% up time on 5 boons with elixir B and H. +many might stacks. 10% crit damage = + 40% modifers, + might, 10% crit damage.
power. 165 scholor,
1163 zerkers,
250 bloodlust
100 food
both builds.
2594 power
30 tools build
100 trait for power
6 stacks might with naplam+rifle/net turret 210 p
2904 p
+ 141% damage crits.
875 hit, * 1.46 % modifer vs bleeding, 1277* 2.41 crit= 3078 max crits vs 2600 with .85s auto attack.
1660 hit, 4002 crit vs 2000 armor, 4201 vs sitting duck. 5 stacks of vul
R2 1.6 scaling
3144 hit, 7577 crit vs 2600 armor, 7955 vs sitting duck. +4stacks of 4s bleed. I didn’t count. 1-2k worth of damageish.
4087 hit, 10054 crit vs 2000 armor, 10557 vs sitting duck.
You can figure out how much that 2.8 leap would do.
Also, this build has suprises hot for 10s discharges. net for 3s immobalize, discharge, and immo ammo. Drop turrets+naplam blast combo.
So, for the guy that said, he had this build and didn’t put up those numbers. what were you doing?
I haven’t swapped to a rifle build entirely yet. been leveling alts, kindof broke. cant grab scholar, and force to test it out entirely. I ran centaur.
(edited by Casia.4281)
power. 165 scholor,
1163 zerkers,
250 bloodlust
100 food
both builds.
2594 power
30 alch build
40% % modifier.
121% damage crits.
11 stacks of might. h,b,c 385power (100% uptime) the aoe might on 30 tools is not.
2979 power
(looks like tools is going to win this already) but that 100% uptime, and fury, 409, and retaliation arent bad. Also this build uses wrench, not suprise shot, which higher CD but hits MUCH harder. )
r1 1256 hit 2777 crits vs 2600 armor.
you can do the rest. higher might=more cond for shrapnel.
wrench is .8×2, with a 969 max, or 920 average.
1244 hit x2, 2748×2 crits.
rune of str are 5% damage when you have might buff, vs scholars 10% at max health.
it also has +20% might duration, for an hgh build, that means 50% might duration, so probably 14-15 stacks.
We then also have to ask force, vs battle.
(edited by Casia.4281)
Discharge is .55 I think, using kit damage, 920 average, 872-969
It can crit of course.
I also now realize I could have increased my grenade damage like another 20%.
I was already doing like 6k a throw.
But if I had been abusing some of this stuff. yikes.
wonder If I can get a 20k barrage.
Also, seriously. nail in coffin for condition builds I think.
I can’t really understand why they would do this. So ripe for abuse.
Crit, crit damage. Weapon damage*power vs defense+toughness.
exponential % modifiers. weapons with different damage values. come on.. This is stuff game designers should have learned no to do 20 years ago.
(edited by Casia.4281)
wrench is .8×2, with a 969 max, or 920 average.
1244 hit x2, 2748×2 crits.
I thought toolbelt skills still use your mainhand weapon strength. Testing toolbelt skills in mists with Steady weapons seem to clearly use Steady weapon strength “range” rather than kit weapon strength range, even if you are holding a kit out (ex. I just hit heavy golem for 88/88 with it using Steady Rifle + Toolkit out). I know in PvE/WvW you lose weapon stats by doing that (whatever pow/prec/etc. your weapon has), but from HotM testing skills like Surprise Shot and Throw Wrench still use normal weapon strength range.
(edited by omgwtflolbbl.7142)
huh….
remove weapon entirely. they do full damage, with no spread. as listed by tooltip.
steady weapon. lists 533. does 199 with no spread..
regular weapon 1k with spread.
yeah. im back to confused. the .8 coeff seemed to work with anticipated kit value.
850 with pistols vs 1k rifles. so yeah. weapon is defiantly relevant. kitten
who the —-- designed this?
why do they still do damage with no weapon?
(edited by Casia.4281)
Using Steady Rifle and assuming that toolbelt skills use their weapon strengths gave me a Throw Wrench coefficient of roughly 1 per for a total of 2. I can share my stuff tomorrow if you want, ran through all the weapons and kits and conjures for Guardian/Warrior/Thief/Ele/Engi/Mesmer trying to find out what I could. Still not quite sure how to handle utilities. I decided on a variance of 876-969 for kits/conjures, close enough to get pretty good estimates anyhow. Tested everything with a power of 1839, though I did screw up a bit on Ele conjures because I forgot that you get +power on some of them. Still should be fairly close to the mark, anything that I couldn’t use Steady weapons on I just spammed a bunch of times until the min/max converged on a number using the variance mentioned before. Steady weapons on everything else possible. And actually if someone would be willing to go through and grab accurate data on how long it takes to go through animations for everything start to finish that’d be awesome, my comp doesn’t handle that too well.
Doing these tests just reinforced my belief that this game has some of the worst tooltips and descriptions I’ve seen in a game in quite a while lol. A lot of it is blatantly wrong, and a lot of stuff just doesn’t work like you’d think. For instance, from what I’ve seen, Mesmer Phantasms don’t seem to give a crap if you’re using a level 1 white or level 80 exotic to determine their damage (other than the stats on the weapon, which if you swap it then doesn’t matter since I’m pretty sure stats update on the fly for that sort of thing). Makes some sense I suppose, but still weird as heck. Ele’s have a weapon skill on earth dagger that similarly doesn’t seem to be related to the weapon at all as far as damage goes and acts like a utility. Quite a few tooltips fail to even properly mention how many hits something can deal out.
This new grenade nerf makes no difference because we can now officially stack 25 stacks of might forever. even outside combat i can get it to about 15.
The grenade nerf is only to skill 1. They did add damage to blindness grenade(I never used) and The poison grenade skill. So the trade of not so bad.
The main thing to note is dual wielding on main hand is almost mandatory. Sigil of strength is now amazing. I also picked up a the precision stacking sigil. so i can get my crit damage and proc rate higher.
This class has definitely not been nerfed.
All i should say is pure cookie cuter grenade build have to use might stacks. so basically hard core or you get low dps.
So spam those elixirs.
check this guys. i thought you knew dps.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAXA8GRArcRdEZ2UzAydXhkLXRhM19sUXlxT2ZfUVE#gid=0
obvious troll thread is obvious.
dont reply anymore.
As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
When using traited bombs and mines ( both utilities and tool belt skills ) , you will cause the highest DPS and AOE.
All 80es > MM necro is my best ,cleric
guard ,nades eng ,Trap thief \ranger ,signet\shout warrior, zerk mes\ele & shiro rev.
guard ,nades eng ,Trap thief \ranger ,signet\shout warrior, zerk mes\ele & shiro rev.
1 2