Guild Wars 2

After the Flame and Frost update, turrets have been buffed enough so that they are viable for good and useful sPvP builds.
So to test out the power of turrets now, I made a new build (adjusting my MechaMan build from pre-patch) and it’s quite effective.
Gameplay video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Rzq_feWOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hD1sn4g89A – Build video

The build uses all turrets as utility skills, and for the first time you can get away with this. You don’t need to compliment the damage with a weapon kit because the damage of your turrets, their cooldowns and your weapon skills alone are enough for a moderate damage output.

The survival of this build is very high because of the high points spent in Inventions (boosting toughness) and there’s high control from the Net Turret and immobilizing tool kit skill.

http://www.gw2db.com/skill-builds/2828-turret-build-flame-and-frost – BUILD

I’ve also started a series going through different changes of the Engineer in the Flame and Frost update.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG1c3UiTfII – Here’s the first video before the video of the build, addressing some of the changes made to turrets in the update.

Enjoy, and leave feedback of the build!

Thanks for sharing this, Optics. I like your take on a turret build. There’s some good discussion going on here as well regarding turret builds.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Tpvp-Turret-Engineer-video

I’ve been using a slight variation of Fairtex’s build with good results. I’ve done so well in a bunkering role that I’ve been getting asked to join organized groups.

Nice Video Optic!

Not a turret fan, but it looks Efficient!

Testing turrets myself since the patch too, so I’m really glad these posts and video’s show up.
It’s a fun build you use, seems pretty decent.

I’m not 100% convinced on any turret aside net turret yet, but you can feel the buffs indeed.

My biggest issues are: they die too fast for too long cooldown (looking at you rocket turret).
And also: they still target useles mobs. Turret UI needs to improve, or simply: why can’t a turret at least hit my target first, and than any other player hitting me second. And lastly: any npc hitting me.
Currently turrets hit npc pets first way too often. I need those long overcharge cooldowns on the players, not the pets. Or as I said: at least on my target.

There are some cooldown and AI issues left withstanding, but when they work they can work pretty well. I’m actually impressed with how well they survived here. I think once targeted turrets are fixed, it’d be easier to keep the long ranged turrets alive by placing them to the side too.

It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Turrets aren’t as bad as they are claimed to be by the community. They maybe still have improvements that need to be done, but they are making progress towards being competitive.

Ayestes.1273:

There are some cooldown and AI issues left withstanding, but when they work they can work pretty well. I’m actually impressed with how well they survived here. I think once targeted turrets are fixed, it’d be easier to keep the long ranged turrets alive by placing them to the side too.

It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Turrets aren’t as bad as they are claimed to be by the community. They maybe still have improvements that need to be done, but they are making progress towards being competitive.

He can’t place them to the sides, since he hasn’t got those points in Tools…

That touches upon the third issue with turrets (aside targeting and easiness to kill):
the traits are all over the place.

Every turret should explode with a knockback, without needing a trait for that.
That would free up 20 points at least.

Turrets need 20/0/30/0/10 or even 20/0/30/0/20 if you want to repair them with tool kit. For that of course you lose a skill slot on Tool Kit as well.
These builds lack damage, all your gear would have to make up for that.

Why is there a seperate trait for 30% less damage and for self repair? These traits are not so strong they would be OP combined.
And the Grandmaster Trait is a bit weak too. Compare that with Elixir Infused Bombs, Juggernaut, Grenadier… Not saying all other Grandmasters are great, but this one could use a buff too. At least merge in either the knockback or the ranged placing in it, so points get freed up in the other trait lines.

Not to mention you have very bad condition removal and no stunbreaker, except for the knockback sacificing a turret you might need to kill that opponent after the stun…

Turrets got a lot better, but they should have adressed the scattering of the traits.
That part is still terrible!

I didn’t mean to say he could do it. I mean t to say when it’s fixed, and someone could theoretically try to fit it in, it perhaps could change how turrets can be viewed defensively.

Turret traits are a fair bit too scatter brained, I’d agree with that. Tool Kit is an odd fit with it as well, but I see no reason why a Tool Kit + 2 Turret build wouldn’t be capable of ever being viable. I don’t think the point would be intentionally repairing your turrets, I think it’d be more a side benefit of using those skills near the turret.

A lack of a stun breaker and condi-removal is a bigger deal to you then it is to me, clearly. I fully acknowledge how useful they can be, but to flat out say they are mandatory to me is a bit of a stretch. I wouldn’t be against any ideas that introduce more of that functionality into a theoretical turret build though, either.

I agree Turrets got a lot better, and honestly I agree too that there is still a way to go. I acknowledge though, that I could be wrong with the way to go part. I still think there needs to be improvements though, trait scattering and turret cooldowns are a good place to start I think.

Kimbald.2697:

Testing turrets myself since the patch too, so I’m really glad these posts and video’s show up.
It’s a fun build you use, seems pretty decent.

I’m not 100% convinced on any turret aside net turret yet, but you can feel the buffs indeed.

My biggest issues are: they die too fast for too long cooldown (looking at you rocket turret).
And also: they still target useles mobs. Turret UI needs to improve, or simply: why can’t a turret at least hit my target first, and than any other player hitting me second. And lastly: any npc hitting me.
Currently turrets hit npc pets first way too often. I need those long overcharge cooldowns on the players, not the pets. Or as I said: at least on my target.

Yeah, unfortunately you have to keep one eye all the time on who you’re turrets are targeting. If they are attacking someone you’re not, it’s a shame that you are almost forced to switch your target in order to deal a decent amount of damage.
The turrets dominate who you target (which is completely random) not you, who can make a more wise and beneficial choice.

However, at least the turrets have been buffed enough to be viable for something now. All that remains is the actual attitude of turrets, because random targeting and low health pools isn’t fantastic for the game.

I created a new video showing off better annotated gameplay of the build.

Enjoy!

Good stuff Optics, your videos are so nice man! Its always fun for me to watch other turret engis (not many of us) and see how they play.

I agree on the trait distribution. It’s madness. On top of that, the Grandmaster trait only gives +15% damage? For investing 30 points into? Don’t forget that stat boosts that just give a flat % boost to damage affect only direct damage. This synergizes very poorly with our turrets because they don’t even use our power, only our condition damage. That trait needs way more to it for me to even consider using it.

I’ve been trying turrets a bit more lately, but I usually emphasize my main weapon and use the other 3 good turret traits (Explosives IX, Inventions III, and Tools V). The little bit I have played with it I like this because I’m not totally dependent on my turrets but they aren’t just an afterthought either.

Just saw this thread as I’m on my way out the door, but as I post here I’ll be able to find it later to comment on that video! Thanks for posting.

For general use, do you guys prefer the flame or the rocket turret?

The flame has several advantages, like lower cooldown to start, bit more aoe near the turret. And of course: the blind is pulsing several times and a smoke field, two very important features of it.

But the rocket turret knocks down once or twice every 20 seconds (depending on when you press overcharge) and it hits a LOT harder.
The knockdown is a lot of control over a character, but the downside is that it is easy to avoid without the net turret.
The auto attack as well has great burn but still good direct damage too.
And the range of course: much much longer.
Longer cooldown too of course, much much longer… sigh.

On dummies the rocket turret burns down a target about double as fast as the flame.
Couple that with the sitting duck trait and a net turret, and it goes even better because the direct damage benefits from the vuln stacks more.

Convince me of why the flame turret would be the better choice, currently tempted to go with the rocket turret.
My other turret will most likely be the net turret.
I think net turret has more uses than the thumper, which seems point holder mostly.
But that’s another debate of course: net vs thumper.

Kimbald.2697:

For general use, do you guys prefer the flame or the rocket turret?

The flame has several advantages, like lower cooldown to start, bit more aoe near the turret. And of course: the blind is pulsing several times and a smoke field, two very important features of it.

But the rocket turret knocks down once or twice every 20 seconds (depending on when you press overcharge) and it hits a LOT harder.
The knockdown is a lot of control over a character, but the downside is that it is easy to avoid without the net turret.
The auto attack as well has great burn but still good direct damage too.
And the range of course: much much longer.
Longer cooldown too of course, much much longer… sigh.

On dummies the rocket turret burns down a target about double as fast as the flame.
Couple that with the sitting duck trait and a net turret, and it goes even better because the direct damage benefits from the vuln stacks more.

Convince me of why the flame turret would be the better choice, currently tempted to go with the rocket turret.
My other turret will most likely be the net turret.
I think net turret has more uses than the thumper, which seems point holder mostly.
But that’s another debate of course: net vs thumper.

Right, so, on paper, the rocket turret seems way better, right? It deals more damage overall, and theoretically it’s like the rifle turret and the flame turret combined (without the cooldown bleeding from the rifle). If the rocket turret and the rifle turret had similar cooldowns, a build would be amazing with them combined, as they have similar ranges, would deal moderate amounts of direct damage and would stack condition damage nicely too.

But IF they had similar cooldowns. Above all the pros of taking the rocket turret, the ridiculous cooldown made me not choose it. In my opinion it’s not practical to have in a build, especially in competitive sPvP. I believe it’s double the cooldown (more or less) of the rifle and net turret, and since these two turrets are sort of vital for a turret build, the rocket turret just couldn’t be implemented for me.

With how weak turrets are and how vulnerable they are to AOE damage, so they are basically being destroyed by players who might not even know they are there (though that’s a different discussion), I think we need not only the cooldowns of placing the turrets to be low, but we also need them all to be similar to eachother. If they aren’t, you’ll possibly go through the whole game where 50% of the time your rocket turret isn’t available for a fight where it would have saved you.

It depends on the player a bit, I suppose. I need my turrets to be ready to place together, for maximum damage, and the cooldown of the rocket turret is just too big for my liking. It’s definitely more powerful than the flame turret, but it’s not as practical.
P.S I don’t think range of the flame turret is that much of an issue personally, not with the net turrets we have at our disposal.

Fairtex.7810:

Good stuff Optics, your videos are so nice man! Its always fun for me to watch other turret engis (not many of us) and see how they play.

Thank you, I appreciate this kind of feedback a lot!

I liked the “feel” of this build on paper (compared to the other turret builds) so I tested it a little tonight.

I felt it was VERY strong against melee classes. Thieves and guardians were no problem…didn’t see any warriors lol

However, I had a lot of trouble against bursty specs, especially might stacking engineers and shatter mesmers.

Edit: One thing I did notice was that Accelerant Packed Turrets felt like a useless trait. My turrets only died when there was AoE damage and this was typically caused by ranged attacks such as elementalists or grenades. In fact, I felt my turrets stayed up during most fights.

Not going to quote the whole post, but thanks for that Optics.
You convinced me on the benefits of the Flame turret over the Rocket turret somewhat.
It is indeed more than just the damage.

Not that the Rocket turret isn’t awesome in it’s overcharge, but oddly enough that has a 20 sec cooldown… and the turret itself still 50 seconds.

My current testing went from turrets to gadgets a bit, the adorable ‘special’ nephews of the illegitimate children that the turrets are… They’re a bit ‘slow’ but they are so happy

I still use the net turret in there, if going roaming.
But for bigger zergfights, I don’t think turrets are worth it.

How do you feel about that: turrets in zergs?
Lag alone makes them useless, at best… IF you can put one down, they serve as a mine on a long cooldown.
For me at least.

In small fights they are rather underrated.