Guild Wars 2

Well, I’ve done alot of math on skills testing builds, but only have posted in relevant topics. I suppose a single consolidated post makes sense.
These sometimes get ninja changed without patch notes. Do keep that in mind, as I don’t check every skill every patch.

These are all base values, NOT taking into consideration talents. Noting specific conditions on most, but not listing skills with conds, but no direct damage atm. Might add those later.

Consider kits have a max weapon damage of 969. Exotic rifles are 1205, exotic pistols are 1025. (I did not note ascended/legendary upgrade values)

“Tooltips are based on max damage vs a 2600 armor target.” This appears to be incorrect. Character sheet lists max damage only in the attack panel, however, evidence is suggesting:
Tooltips are average damage vs a 2600 armor target.

Weapons do of course have a damage range. Do not know exactly what the range on toolkits are, as only the 969 is shown.
TBA figure out gadget/kit min/max.

Damage is calculated as:
skillcoeff*weapondamage*power/armor=damage.
armor is defense+toughness.
The stat “attack” in your character sheet is meaningless. damage is weapon TIMES power. not plus.

Warning, Values not labeled as corrected are incorrect. off by 4-10%, due to max vs average mistake.

#p= power coeff. as=attack speed
Pistol: 876-1029 exotic weapon damage. (SentinelArk corrected ratios)
p1 .35p, .8 as, 2s bleed
p2 .4p x5, 2s cast, 2s poison per hit
p3 .4p x4, .8s as, 3s blind, 2stacks 3s confuse per hit
p4 .33p at 200, .99 at 600, .8as, 3stacks of 2s burn, or 1 stack of 2sburn.

Shield: 806-909 exotic weapon damage 61 defense (SentinelArk corrected)
S4 .25
s5 .5×2

Rifle: 986-1205 exotic weapon damage. (SentinelArk corrected)
r1 .65p, .8as
r3 1.6p at 100, 1p at 400, .8as, 4 stacks of 4s bleed at 100, 1 stack of 4s bleed at 400
r4 1p, .8as
r5 .9p leap, 1.8p land, 3 stacks vul on… uh. land I think. need to double check that.

Flamethrower: 969 weapon damage
FT1 1.5p over 10 hits, 2.5cast, 1s burn at end. tooltip lies about 5 attacks/s, 10per 2.5 is 4)
FT2 .75p ball, 1.75 blast. (not a blast finisher)

Elixir gun: 969 weapon damage
EG1 .4p, .8 as, 1s weakness, 4s bleed. (Rifled barrels changes this to 3s weakness, 3s bleed)
EG2 .75p x4, .8as, 3s cripple, 3s swiftness. (rifled barrels says it changes this to 5s, it does not)
EG3 .08p x5, 2.5s cast, 1s poison, 1 6s vul, cleanses conds on allies in cone. (yes this is HORRIFICALLY bad)
EG4 .85p/tick, 5s duration= 6 ticks.

Bomb: 969
B1 1.25p, .8 as
B2 .2p, .8as, 2s burn
B3 .5p, .8 as, 5 stacks 5s confuse
BoB 1.7p (1.65?)

Grenades: 969
Pve
g1 .5p per, .8as, x2
g2 .55p per, .8as, x2, 1 stack 12s bleed per
g4 .5p per, .8as, x2, chill
Barrage .375p per, .8as, x6 (8 with grenadier)
pvp.
g1 .45p per, .8as, x2
g2 .45p per, .8as, x2, 1 stack 12s bleed per
g4 .45p per, .8as, x2, chill
Barrage .375p per, .8as, x6 (8 with grenadier)
(note. g1 and g2 got the labeled 10% nerf, about. g2 got an 18% nerf, not 15%, and barrage does not appear to have gotten its stated 10% nerf at all)

Wrench: 969
W1: .82p, .8p, 1.75p .8as, .8as, 1s as. first two hits are aoe melee. last hit is single target melee.
W2 2p, .8s as, 3 stacks confuse. Single target melee.
Throw .75px2

Turrets:
tba

Gadgets: Appear to use kit 969 weapon damage.

Mine:
Throw/detonate .892p
Mine Field .5 x5

Rocket boots .712p
Kick .822p

Ram .893p
Launch .893

Elites:
tba

Traits/other
Acidic Elixir:
Discharge:
Retaliation:

Haven’t gotten to everything. I’ll take a moment to finish the numbers on the rest, when I get a chance.
As well as healing.

Thank you a lot for going through the effort and sharing it!

I never noticed that Rifled barrels increased durations on conditions, as it only says it increases range of the weapon, am I missing something?

Quiggle.4215:

I never noticed that Rifled barrels increased durations on conditions, as it only says it increases range of the weapon, am I missing something?

yes, I had originally thought, when I noticed the variance in EG1’s bleed, that it was a spvp/pve thing. however, someone corrected me, and I checked it out.

I don’t know exactly what is going on there, but its probably an insight in to how the database for skills work. its a not a modifier. Adding rifled barrels likely redirects to an entirely new entry.
EG1, 2 and 5’s tooltips change when you equip rifled barrels. And not simply 900-1200.
The durations of weakness and bleed on eg1 change. the durations of cripple and swiftness on 2 change. and the entirety of super elixir’s tooltip changes.
With rifled barrels, super elixir shows the old tooltip. It doesnt scale with level, it will read 60 healing, 10 pulse, not list combo field. not list aoe size.
However, for EG2, and EG 5, this is purely a tooltip error. the skills themselves work properly with or without.
EG1 however actually changes in function. Weaken gains 2s duration, while its bleed loses 1 second.
I do not remember beta stats of EG1. I would suspect this is how it used to work?
Somewhere along the way, they changed how EG 1 works, edited the normal data entry, but forgot to edit the rifled barrels version. While all 3 tooltips were not updated.

Added some more.

Have some questions with testing.

Heavy golems are supposed to have 2600 armor. I do not remember where we got this number off the top of my head. same when figuring the tooltip damage value.

I was trying to figure out the min/max of weapon kits.
Testing on golems however, inconsistent.
First tried EG.
129min-143 max hit with 961 power
.38coeff. And thought to be 2600 armor.
But 137 was tooltip listed. I was hitting heavy golem for more then I should have.
4.4%
that was a 911-1009, or 960ave figure. Hrm. Although, if I *96%…
875-969. That might be it.

Prybar testing . got 933-1046 that was hitting for like 8% more then it should have. I can’t explain this.

More. Rifle turret. Rifle turret lists 318. it hits heavy golems for 317. Suggesting correct, but a decimal variance.
But every direct damage weapon. rifles, pistol, kits etc deals MORE then list.

Hmm. Tooltip is the average, NOT the max, perhaps? That might be it. Turrets do not have varied damage. its 318 every time.

So if I’m reading this right..

Pistol gets 0.324 from power, and a 2s bleed which means 0.10 from condition damage (bleed is 0.05 per second).

Since condition damage and power are itemized at the same value, it’s still better to stack power even with the pistol? o_0 (unless you have ~+200% condition duration which is afaik impossible)

yes I know pistol has poison and (on offhand) burning, but both of those don’t stack intensity so they are… unreliable at best unless you’re solo.

Anyway, thanks a lot for testing these out, it’s very interesting information.

(and I knew EG fumigate was bad but wow…. that’s gotta be a typo)

yes. I find that pretty much all weapon sets scale better with power then condition damage.

Now, .324 vs .1 is not the full story.
+cond duration can buff cond damage value. While armor and weapon damage modify power.
And of course traits, etc.

If armor is 2000-2600 ish. And weapon damage is 900-1200 ish. That .324 is being reduced by 50-60%. down to .160. but then crit, crit damage rebuff. traits that give +10% damage, etc. 5% to bleeding targets for firearms. vul is +25% direct damage at 25 stacks.
Coated bullets can double or triple pistol 1’s direct damage aoe, but does not apply that bleed aoe. So with coated bullets, power is far far better.
Without coated bullets its close. PDV scales with power much better. Static is close. If the target attacks, cond is better, if they clease, or don’t attack, power is better. Blowtorch cond is better if target does not cleanse.

+duration can be a huge damage buff to short duration conditions. especially bleed. While it might seems longer conds benefit more, shorter ones really do. Heres why.
A burn. a 10s burn, getting +50% becomes 15s. That is simply too long. a player will cleanse it. an npc will die before it full burns. a boss will probably have that burn overstacked, with 100% uptime and thus wasting it.
While pistol 1’s 2s bleed, becomes a 3s bleed with +50%. 3s bleeds wont ever hit the 25 stack max. they wont get cleansed, and they will likely do full damage to trash.
And +duration works with mights +cond.

And yeah. fumigate. Horrible skill all around. The base damage is so low. Seriously, I kindof think its supposed to be .355/hit 5 hits. that would still be low, to justify its other effects. but right now .077/hit. Just wow. it doesnt remove conditions off yourself. So super elixir does a better job of that. Seriously, super elixir+EG1. the projectiles will remove conditions in a line in front of you. Poison. PDV has longer duration, shorter CD. the vul for that low of damage also not worth it.

While I cannot confirm for weapon kits and utility skills, I do not agree with your weapon damage use for determining skill coefficients for rifle, pistols and shields. I do agree with your approach, though.

If you use Steady weapons from the PvP Lobby, you will get steady weapon damage (125 to 125 for Rifle and Pistols, 110 to 110 for Shields). This takes out the confusion on whether or not you should use the maximum weapon damage, lower, or average in the damage calculation from the tooltip.

Using steady weapons, I get the following skill coefficients:

Rifle
R1 = 0.65
R2 = 0.00
R3 (Close) = 1.60
R3 (Long) = 1.00
R4 = 1.00
R5 (Leap) = 0.90
R5 (Land) = 1.80

Pistol
P1 = 0.35
P2 = 0.40 (per dart)
P3 = 0.40 (per bounce)
P4 (Close) = 0.99
P5 (Long) = 0.33

Shield
S4 = 0.25
S5 = 0.50

The numbers you got versus what I got are close. For example, I got 0.33 and 0.99 for Pistol 4 while you got 0.1 and 0.3.

indeed, if the tooltip is listing average, as I am starting to think. then the values will be off, by 4-6%ish, and will need to be edited. The character sheet only lists max damage in, your “weapon damage” box, so led to a incorrect assumption.

Thanks for reminding me of the steady. that will make things easier. Or will take your word for those. If you have already calculated any, and are willing to take the time to type it out, I’ll just edit the op.

Why would you assume the tool tip is listing average? Each weapon as a range of damage on it.

It is much more likely that this is were weapons skills damage variation comes from.

There isn’t a damage variation if you use steady weapons – where the lower, upper, and average weapon damage is the same. So you can assume any of the three to determine skill coefficients (when using steady weapons), then use a regular weapon to see if the tool tip is actually assuming average weapon damage.

My calculations/research for the skill coefficients are shown below if anyone is interested.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj4MGDyyA4tbdG5HcXBsZHBWLXZjN1Q0RVB4dEdhaVE

coglin.1496:

Why would you assume the tool tip is listing average? Each weapon as a range of damage on it.

It is much more likely that this is were weapons skills damage variation comes from.

Not sure what you are saying. the original mistake was. Char sheet listed max damage only. Skills list one damage value only, not the range. I and apparently no one else, notice that despite using the “max” damage as the basis, we were hitting heavy golems for more damage then the tooltip said we would.
Conversely. turrets, which do not have min-max ranges, hit the heavy golems for exactly what they say they should.

The math worked in predicting what power and weapon damage levels, would give us the properly tooltip display. But it is technically incorrect.
Its the difference between. a coeff of 1, and a weapon damage of 1300, and a coeff of 1.3 and weapon damage of 1000. both=1300.

so now for toolkits.
969 is the max damage then. Tooltip is displaying the average.
Hrm. yeap.
Using my EG numbers.
129-143 with 961 power vs 2600 heavy golem.
.38 coeff gave me errors. but using SentinelArks values, which are clearly all whole numbers.
.4 coeff. 143/.4/.3696= 967 max damage. (decimals making up that 2 variance. could be 143.1 or something)
129= 872.5 min damage.

Toolkits/gadgest are 872-969 very likely then.

Good point with the turret and kits.

I was referring to the skills from rifle/pistol/shield skills based on the weapons damage having a range.

Really makes one wonder what damage variations on kits and turrets are.

Hrm. + 5% to all weapon kits increases coeffs to even values.
g1+ 5% .5, g2+ 5%, .55
wrench1+ 5%=.8, etc

Gadgets however, still odd values. Might be more to gadgets. Will need to test them, my guess that they use weapon kit damage value is probably wrong.

Final Edit: Ignore this post! I made math mistakes.

I’m terrible at reading spreadsheets. But yeah, your numbers seem to be off by 300%?

872-969*skill*p/2600=damage.

My EG 1 at .4, using 872-969(920ave)weapon, and naked for 916 power
would be 872-969*.4*916/2600= 123-136.5 Listing a 129.7 average.

I just checked. yeap. my tooltip reads 130.

And checked, EG2. lists 244, and I get 243 expected. at .75 coeff. So, my min might be off by a point or two. or golems are not 2600 exactly. hard to really know for sure.
Note, turrets do miss their tooltips by 1 or 2. So it could be golems are 2607 or something.

Your numbers for weapon damage on kits makes more sense than mine. Yea… I’ll have to adjust my spreadsheet for the 920 weapon damage average.

And from the little testing I’ve done on heavy golems, I’ve gotten armor values higher than 2600 (I think my average so far was 2630, but I’ll have to double check). Most definitely slightly above 2600 though.

EDIT: Having used Casia’s 920 average weapon damage for determining skill coefficients, I get the same numbers kitten he did – which is more reasonable than what I have obtained earlier.

I know this is a bit much ot ask, but any idea of the healing coeffic for engineer skills?

I am seeing about .1 for elixir infused bombs but I am curious as to how the regen abilities and super-elixir scales.

Someone had done healing previously. But yeah, I’ll get to it when I can.

Work, and when I do play, I’m in a pretty hard core WvW guild. We get pretty focused that.

Thanks Casia, obviously you get to it when you get to it. Especially considering you are doing this out of the goodness of your heart and fidelity with your fellow engineers!

Chupa.2035:

This is a short guide on engineers and healing power in which I will write the basic stats of their healing abilities and ratios with healing power. All the stats are for
lvl 80.These are not speculations but tested and proven numbers.

Healing skills
1.Elixir H
-Base heal=5560 health ,Ratio is 1 Healing power=1 Health
-Base regen(10s)=1300 health ,Ratio is 1 Healing power=1.25 Health
Toss Elixir H-Base regen(10s)(aoe)= 1300 health ,Ratio is 1 Healing power=1.25 Health
2.Med Kit
-Drop Bandages-Base heal=1000 health ,Ratio is 1 Healing power=0.5 Health
-Bandage self-Base heal=4920 health ,Ratio is 1 Healing power=1 Health
3.Healing Turret
-Base heal=4920 ,Ratio is 1 Healing Power= 1 Health
-Base regen(8s)(aoe)=1040 ,Ratio is 1 Healing power= 1 Health
-Cleansing Burst-Base heal=1302 ,Ratio is 1 Healing power=0.2 Health
-Regenerating Mist-Base regen is 2 ticks(3s)(aoe)=780
Ratio is 1 Healing power=0.75 Health
-Combo field Water-Base heal(aoe)=1320 ,Ratio is 1 Healing power=0.2 Health

Utility skills
Elixir Gun
-Super Elixir
-Base Heal(aoe)=380 ,Ratio is 1 Healing Power=0.2 Health
-Base regen(10s)(aoe)=140 per tick ,Ratio is 1 healing power=0.1 Health
Healing Mist
-Base regen(10s)(aoe)=1300 health ,Ratio is 1 Healing power=1.25 Health

Traits
Elixir-infused Bombs
-Base heal(aoe)=136 Health
-Ratio is 1 Healing Power= 0.13 health(75 Healing =10 health more healed)
(but since you start with 300 Healing power because of the trait it will be 176 health base with no healing power except from the traits.)
All bomb heal for same amount, except Big Ol’ Bomb which I didn’t test enough.
Big Ol’ Bomb-Base heal(aoe)=151 health with 300 Healing power

Backpack Regenerator
-Base regen=125 Health per tick (Not influenced by healing power at all, but stacks with Super elixir regen and normal regen)

Low heath response system
-Base regen(10s)=130 Health per tick ,Ratio is 10 Healing power=1.2 Health
(You need to be hit under 25% health to active it, not get to 25% health.)

Fun facts are that normal regen stacks with super elixir regen and backpack regenerator, and all healing skills except backpack regenerator are influenced by healing power.

I hope this helps somebody and comment if you find I calculated something wrong
because I am not very good at math.

For reference. I haven’t tested the values myself. Also Super Elixir is bugged since the big patch.

Are this values still valid aftor 4 months or so?

I applaud OP for his work.
I only wish that GW2 tool-tips were as good as GW1 tool-tips. Seriously, what in heaven’s name happened?

I miss all those number crunchers who uses to post on this forum