Technically it also comes with an entire weapon set and tool belt skill. Admittedly though, the duration of 4s feels crazy low.
I feel all of our bleeds are too low of a duration. I thinks that is also the general consensus.
I would go as far to say that all of our conds disappear too quickly. I think this was intended to counter balance just how many we can toss out, but the changes to cond removal priority really borked things. FT really stands out.
Why aren’t you on fire!?! Oh, 1sec duration on a coating of liquid fire….
Maybe we need primer coat first?
Boundaries are for the effortless.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0 You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
attrition thieves suck in pve and in pvp its a gimmick for the unskilled/new player.
in pve condition engineer will out perform them same for tpvp.
they’re pretty useless and almost never played in competitive play for a reason.
a good player will avoid every condition they try to dish out,and they cant node fight at all.
db and caltrops are the easiest things to avoid in the game and the ones you don`t avoid you will remove easy.
as for pve since they only give bleed and poison (vulnerability also if you wanna be picky they cant stack it anyway and venom skills) you only need a condition necro with you to diminish them a lot.
so just to compare caltrops to box of nails is silly if you know no one will eat it in pvp and it will get diminish in pve.
if you ask me imo box of nails>caltrops if you take kit refinement.
again if you consider engineers have more types of conditions to apply overall that simple fact makes us >to d/d condition thief.
the only thing that is going for d/d condition thief is the god mod they cannot be killed 1v1/2 only if you cc them for 10s in a row while you burst them or spam mindless aoe (bomb kit says hello).
p/d and p/p is a different story and they are somewhat hard to master.
i do agree anet needs to reverse the pistol bleed back to 4s it wasn’t over the top on its own only when combined with the aoe and piercing(and the good uptime on burn/poison) you can call it somewhat op.
so lower the dmg on the aoe and up the bleed seems fine to me for balance.
There are two very different stories about Engineers that get posted on these forums.
On one hand we have videos and posts from people confirming how their Engineer can chew up and spit out pretty every other class, up to and including 1v3 fights.
On the other hand we have lots of complaints about Engineers being underpowered compared with other classes.
Underlying that first group of posts is the message: Engineers are awesome if you just learn how to play them properly.
So why isn’t that message working?
Because it’s untrue, and blatantly obviously so to anyone who isn’t a groupie.
The “if you just learn how to play them properly” is a mechanism for delivering maximum belittling to people who disagree, because obviously anyone who disagrees with you is a noob.
There are two very different stories about Engineers that get posted on these forums.
On one hand we have videos and posts from people confirming how their Engineer can chew up and spit out pretty every other class, up to and including 1v3 fights.
On the other hand we have lots of complaints about Engineers being underpowered compared with other classes.
Underlying that first group of posts is the message: Engineers are awesome if you just learn how to play them properly.
So why isn’t that message working?
Because it’s untrue, and blatantly obviously so to anyone who isn’t a groupie.
The “if you just learn how to play them properly” is a mechanism for delivering maximum belittling to people who disagree, because obviously anyone who disagrees with you is a noob.
To add to your post, I should mention that there’s a very good reason why Engineers aren’t wanted in high level fractals and somewhat in sPVP tournaments (I was asked to change classes when I tried going with a PUG once).
Because it’s untrue, and blatantly obviously so to anyone who isn’t a groupie.
The “if you just learn how to play them properly” is a mechanism for delivering maximum belittling to people who disagree, because obviously anyone who disagrees with you is a noob.
I’m not in the camp that engineers need huge reworks/major buffs (well, except to turrets, and maybe gadgets), but this is really true. If you’ve had good success with your engi, you should be helping other people overcome the bugs/ineffective builds/etc, not belittling people. This is true whether they are justified or not justified in their complaints.
I also agree that it’s untrue that engies are fine if “played properly.” I would argue that engies are better if NOT played properly—that is, our “proper” builds aren’t that great but there are some super fun niche builds to be had. Either way, it’s not that engies are secretly fine and everyone just needs to get better. It’s that engies have flaws, but there are ways around that, to an extent, in most situations.
I’ve been playing Engi since launch, and to tell you the truth, I’m at the point where I’m not sure if we’re fine how we are or I’ve just been playing it so long I’ve gotten good enough at it to make up for the shortcomings.
There are two very different stories about Engineers that get posted on these forums.
* On one hand we have videos and posts from people confirming how their Engineer can chew up and spit out pretty every other class, up to and including 1v3 fights.
* On the other hand we have lots of complaints about Engineers being underpowered compared with other classes.
Underlying that first group of posts is the message:
*Engineers are awesome if you just learn how to play them properly.*
*So why isn’t that message working?*
Because it’s untrue, and blatantly obviously so to anyone who isn’t a groupie.
The "if you just learn how to play them properly" is a mechanism for delivering maximum belittling to people who disagree, because obviously anyone who disagrees with you is a noob.
To add to your post, I should mention that there’s a very good reason why Engineers aren’t wanted in high level fractals and somewhat in sPVP tournaments (I was asked to change classes when I tried going with a PUG once).
you neglect to actually define that "very good reason" because...
it doesn’t exist.
There is no good reason other than ignorance of non-engineers thanks to a plethora of lack luster engineers who haven’t given many groups much to work with.
imagine if the warrior forums were all "no man, actually, 5 sigils is best" and they stuck with it. eventually, no one would want warriors because they’d suck, and rightfully so.
choose your skills wisely, and choose them to benefit the situation you are about to enter. some skills need love from anet but that doesn’t make us useless or unwanted or undesirable.
edit: this is not to say that people turn down engies in groups, it is to say that a more educated and adaptable engie community will change the perception of engies for other people who don’t get to see us shine (problems or not)
Boundaries are for the effortless.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0 You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.
Because it’s untrue, and blatantly obviously so to anyone who isn’t a groupie. The “if you just learn how to play them properly” is a mechanism for delivering maximum belittling to people who disagree, because obviously anyone who disagrees with you is a noob.
i didn`t want to be the guy to start this but since you got the ball rolling i`ll add my thoughts.
the op is the most condescending thing i read in a long time.
The people who find Engineers underpowered seem to be players comfortable only with key press chains/combinations of the length (~3) and complexity (simple repeated combinations) required by other classes. These far more common players (Average players) often enjoy playing the Engineer class, but are unable to get it to perform to the level of other classes they play, with the result that they complain that the engineer is underpowered.
on what ground can you say that? this is such a overly simplistic thing to say it cannot be taken even slightly serious.
The problem is that while Elite players can get their Engineers to outperform everyone else, they represent only a very small (but highly skilled) subset of the people who play or want to play engineers. For the majority of people (i.e. those with average skill levels) who play or want to play Engineers, this class is weak relative to the other classes they play.
this is just downright false the “elite players” dont get their engineers to outperform everyone else go watch teldo`s stream a show case of a good player makes a underpowered profession playable,by no means outperforming anyone in fact far from it. i`ll give you a quote from the spvp forum “Teldo should be considered an example, that everything is playable, no matter how underpowered it is -> but why should we play an underpowered proff, when there are others that do alot better?”
and even he is not in the top he only plays in the top available competitive platform he isnt in the top of that just there.
this profession is weak relative to the other professions not only to “those with average skill levels”.
and no the 1v w/e videos out there do not prove anything, anyone with a minimum of common sense knows there is big factor of gear/skill difference there.
sure its entertaining but it does not reflect anything,lets see how many of those are from paids.
The result: the most fun class to play in Guildwars2 proves disappointing in practice for the majority of players.
this is the only true thing in the op out of context of course.
i’d say NevirSayDie summed up my feeling on the profession and on the forum behavior to some extent.
There are two very different stories about Engineers that get posted on these forums.
On one hand we have videos and posts from people confirming how their Engineer can chew up and spit out pretty every other class, up to and including 1v3 fights.
On the other hand we have lots of complaints about Engineers being underpowered compared with other classes.
Underlying that first group of posts is the message: Engineers are awesome if you just learn how to play them properly.
So why isn’t that message working?
Because it’s untrue, and blatantly obviously so to anyone who isn’t a groupie.
The “if you just learn how to play them properly” is a mechanism for delivering maximum belittling to people who disagree, because obviously anyone who disagrees with you is a noob.
To add to your post, I should mention that there’s a very good reason why Engineers aren’t wanted in high level fractals and somewhat in sPVP tournaments (I was asked to change classes when I tried going with a PUG once).
you neglect to actually define that “very good reason” because…
it doesn’t exist.
There is no good reason other than ignorance of non-engineers thanks to a plethora of lack luster engineers who haven’t given many groups much to work with.
imagine if the warrior forums were all “no man, actually, 5 sigils is best” and they stuck with it. eventually, no one would want warriors because they’d suck, and rightfully so.
choose your skills wisely, and choose them to benefit the situation you are about to enter. some skills need love from anet but that doesn’t make us useless or unwanted or undesirable.
edit: this is not to say that people turn down engies in groups, it is to say that a more educated and adaptable engie community will change the perception of engies for other people who don’t get to see us shine (problems or not)
No it does exist for a lot of people. High level fractals require very good support (Guardians or possibly Eles) or very high DPS (Warriors). I left it out on purpose because it’s subjective to high level play and I am sure many of the people saying that the class is ‘alright’ would say with what I’m claiming isn’t true (and I’m not in a mood for an argument or lengthy explanations). Truth is many people (including I) find that the engie doesn’t excel in DPS or support in comparison to what an Ele, Guardian, Warrior, or Thief might accomplish (Necros are almost in the same boat as us due to the crappy Death Shroud and slow staff attack). So there is my argument if it’s succinct enough for you.
In any case, whether or not one says the class is or isn’t underwhelming, Engies are turned down the most on high level fractals and tournaments. This is from my personal experience and probably some of you have better or worse expereince than I have so YMMV.
And this is so funny: I’m staying at place for 3 seconds like a freak with flamethrower to deal the same damage what Elem or Warrior able to deal with ONE strike (0.5-1 sec) and I have 3 targets limits with always_miss cone AOE while Elem and Warrior have 5 target limits with wide AOE
#SAVEDONBASS from Ukraine!
Seafarer’s Rest (EU): Liicher (Engi), Lii Cher (Warrior), Swf (Elem),
Licharr (Guard), Lich Eir (Ranger), Alt Fh (Thief). Lii Cherr (Mesm), S Wf (Necr)
Pffff you are always going to find a few people in any profession that are going to be good and excel, that applies to all mmo. Also I’m pretty sure the complaining toned down and more builds started coming out after the patch. =\?
I say it all depends on people’s builds and play style, engineer play style dramatically changes depending on the kits and traits you use. Some people find ways to excel according to their situation. It really is just the way you like to play.
For example, I love using 4 kits, but you won’t see me use bomb kit or toolkit which are both good for PVP. I tried it and it wasn’t my thing, I could have been charging in mobs and spraying bombs like raindrops, killiing everyone in my way, but its not how i like to play.
This class is lot better to play after patch, people just need to find a way to overcome their shortcomings, because in the end, I’m sure most of us will still play engineer so let’s focus on mastering on what we have and then when anet finally fixes us, we will all be on top of our game. =D
No two engineers are the same.
Passionate engineer; self-proclaimed kitmaster. <3
