what does that. have to do with what i said above?
this game is mobile combat group oriented in nearly every facet. i dont understand all the mewling
weve discussed this before, therr are no meaningful direct comparisons between professions because anet actively chose to design the classes differently (their levels of success in this endeavour. aside)
but since you persist, my ft aoe is better than a warrior aoe, because it it infinite, mobile, and stacks more conds.
It’s not about being strong 1v1. It’s about people defending the FT as a “good strong weapon” when really, it’s not.
Also, my expectation on a damage weapon is that it do the proper amount of damage based on anets philosophy that melee does about 2x the damage of range because of the risk involved with being at melee.
Another point you raise is that FT is a support/aoe weapon. It’s a melee weapon with melee defensive options meant to protect YOU. I see a lot of people throw out the word “support” so easily, it’s sad. Support this, support that, what does it really mean? A pure glass cannon can be support by killing who ever is killing you. On the other hand, you could be support by acting as bait so a glass cannon can go and kill your target.
Air Blast: push back foes and projectiles with a hot air blast – how often have you pushed back a projectile that mattered? 300 range.
Smoke Vent: vent smoke from your FT, blinding nearby foes – you would have to be really close to someone/thing hitting someone else for this to be used to “support/save” someone else. You have no gap closer for this to be effective. 180 range.
Both skills have ranges under 300. You would be in need of saving as well if you are that close to someone you want to save.
Now against competent zerg players you would either be dead or alive not hitting anything. A competent player would know that your 4s cd nuke has a significant dead zone. A competent ranged player would stay at range killing you at range since you have no gap closer. A competent melee player would stay at melee and take only a fraction of that nuke’s damage (even air blast can’t keep a competent melee at range long enough for flame blast to hit). So where are these competent players that are dumb enough to stay at 360 to 840 range of you?
EDIT
How is a warrior’s aoe finite and immobile? How is a warrior’s aoe worse with less conditions?
(edited by Seetoo.9316)
what game are you playing that your FT hits no one in a zerg?
i consistently roll in and out of zergs with 50% swift chance, vigor, and speedy kits.
all you have to do is sweep your ft in a crowd. hithithithithit
yes, good players know how to dosge, but the whole point of the ft is to cull the weak, so while good players waste their time avoiding your ft (and not attacking your siege force) thw weak playsrs die.
omg! you can only kill newb!
that should be your next argument, so my counter is. no, i can kill anyone. but my ROLE as a support/tank is to create mayhem that mitigates dmg for thebwhole group. i do that very well WHILE killing people.
From what I saw, the FT will Miss-Miss-Miss a lot if you have a target selected. With no target selected and basically using a spray-and-pray approach, I didn’t see any Miss and lots of (low) numbers.
Overall I feel the Flamethrower is pretty weak and to me it feels very odd that #1 only applies a 1s burn on the final hit. It should apply burning for the entire duration (and an additional 1s on the final hit) in my opinion (which would result in around 3 1/4s of burning). The Flamethrower already has a limited AoE which can be avoided easily and only hits 3 people at a time instead of the usual 5. So I feel that those limitations warrant a higher damage output with additional burning.
For me personally, the abilities should be changed like this:
Lastly it’s really odd that our Flamethrower kit is so buggy, when the Flamethrower during the Jormag-event apparently has less issues.
(edited by Aveneo.2068)
The game where no one COMPETENT leaves their zerg because the one’s that do die. “Culling the weak” is not going against COMPETENT players. It’s the same thing as engaging in small fights that don’t contribute to your server. This role you made for yourself, COMPETENT players will know how to kill you or stop you from doing what you want to do. Also, sweeping your FT in a crowd means you are hitting them for even LESS than 1/4 a regular melee hit. You already do less than half melee damage on a full hit, you really gonna divide that even more?
Here’s a simple example of what a COMPETENT player will do.
Its a know fact to competent players that retaliation is the hard counter to FT’s. Let’s apply retaliation to five other people in my zerg so that engg will melt his own face off. 1 breath is 10 attacks, 30 if you hit 3. You either kill yourself or stop.
Lastly it’s really odd that our Flamethrower kit is so buggy, when the Flamethrower during the Jormag-event apparently has no issues.
I would trade my FT for that in a sec. The 5sec cd 900 leap alone makes it superior. Add to that the 3 sec block, kitten
(edited by Seetoo.9316)
where did i say im pulling people out of a zerf? i am *IN* the zerg. hitting people also *IN* the zerg. those competent players are forced to eat FT ir get out (and get picked off by those fancy 1v1 classes) while the nubs keep eating levitican fury.
i never claimed i kill *everyone* in fact, im clearly acknowledging that i dont. but i disrupt and interrup them while culling the "weak"
srsly. think about more than just you and your (non existent) dmg metwrs. its an mmo. be useful in many ways, not just one.
(edited by nakoda.4213)
Please quote me saying you pull people out of zergs. Those competent people will not care since the damage is so weak (thus the complaints about the FT having weak damage).
i never claimed i kill everyone in fact, im clearly acknowledging that i dont. but i disrupt and interrup them while culling the “weak”
that should be your next argument, so my counter is. no, i can kill anyone. but my ROLE as a support/tank is to create mayhem that mitigates dmg for thebwhole group. i do that very well WHILE killing people.
My engg is in fact not a damage build. He is in fact a build that fishes targets out of zergs via magnet, and holds them in place via multiple net skills so that my zerg gets fed. This whole thing with me is not a comparison about FT vs other classes (it was actually you who brought up other classes in our discussion.
if you want to be that strong 1v1 i recommend checking out the more appropriate professions like warrior, thief, and ele.
I was comparing an untraited/unbuffed engg rifle/bomb with an untraited/unbuffed FT. It was untraited/unbuffed to show a control group. It was also to avoid having to talk about how the FT requires more traits spent to bring it on par with the engg’s other melee or range options.
My point was about the FT being inferior with (not other classes) it’s other options (rifle as a ranged option, bomb as a melee option)
where did i say im pulling people out of a zerf? i am IN the zerg. hitting people also IN the zerg.
What’s this then?
Actually, your reading comprehension is lacking. Not only did you fail to understand that I was comparing the engg’s weapon options (not other classes), you also started introducing stuff we weren’t talking about to avoid the points that mattered. Then you start contradicting yourself, saying the exact opposite of what you said before.
(edited by Seetoo.9316)
(another edit, soz for typoes, irate furious typing on a touchscreen tends to tax my tactile tenacity)
that says that i do not pull people out of a zerg. it says i stay in the zerg. what part of in mens out
do you know what a preposition is?
"the mouse ran ______ the haystack"
practice by filling in the blank. if it doesnt fit, its not a preposition.
re: anyone vs everyone; these are compound terms. any. . . . one - indicates singuar ,
every . . . one is a plural.
they mean two different things.
when you read them in the sentences (constructs of words using grammar to imply meaning) you will see they are not contradictory.
kitten.
further to context and sentences, my original mention of other classes was aasuggestion to go play them, not a comparison.
i have not condraticted myself because, when read in concecutive succession, my posts all vlaim the ft is a viable aoe support weapon that is effective against zergs.
my comment about going in and out of zergs with swift etc was a cpmment about survivability.
of course i get targetted in a zerg, So I (me myself) dodge and run in and out to avoid dying.
what part would you like me to clarify next?
see spot run? run spot run!
(edited by nakoda.4213)
where did i say im pulling people out of a zerf? i am IN the zerg. hitting people also IN the zerg.
This is a question, not a statement (indicated by ?). Reading comprehension would imply that someone said you pull people out of zergs/zerfs. Since the discussion is mostly between us, reading comprehension would imply I said you pull people out of zergs/serfs.
Statement 1
i never claimed i kill everyone in fact, im clearly acknowledging that i dont.
Statement 2
no, i can kill anyone.
when i am out of work and at a computerbwhere i can copy and paste i ill recnstruct the argument fornyou.
you are convenietly avoiding the parts of those two statements which indicates their distinction.
ie that it is a pre counter to the argument that since my role is to disrupt competent plyers (ehich i do) while killing incompetent players (which i do) may mean that all i do.is.kill nubs, which is wrong.
i can, have, and will kill anyone. but not "every" one.
next clarification?
I’ll copy paste for you.
yes, good players know how to dosge, but the whole point of the ft is to cull the weak, so while good players waste their time avoiding your ft (and not attacking your siege force) thw weak playsrs die.
omg! you can only kill newb!
that should be your next argument, so my counter is. no, i can kill anyone. but my ROLE as a support/tank is to create mayhem that mitigates dmg for thebwhole group. i do that very well WHILE killing people.
Here, you say you CAN kill ANYONE. This however, is placed after saying “but the whole point of the ft is to cull (same as killing them really) the weak, so while good players waste their time avoiding your ft (and not attacking your siege force) thw weak playsrs die.” Is it unrealistic that you can find a group with mostly weak players? No (already encountered waves and waves of “weaks” falling to a party of 5 COMPETENT players). So it is possible you already encounted this. That is what you say your build is for. So it is safe to say that you can and do kill “everyone”.
Then there’s this gem
where did i say im pulling people out of a zerf? i am IN the zerg. hitting people also IN the zerg. those competent players are forced to eat FT ir get out (and get picked off by those fancy 1v1 classes) while the nubs keep eating levitican fury.
i never claimed i kill everyone in fact, im clearly acknowledging that i dont. but i disrupt and interrup them while culling the “weak”
Just because you don’t land the killing bow doesn’t mean you didn’t kill him. So you’re telling my you didn’t kill some guy you brought down to 10% hp cuz some other guy came along and got the killing blow?
If you want the other stuff.
- saying you go against competent player, later saying your job is to cull the weak (not competent players)
- saying a 10k dps skill (that only really hit “weak” players) is significant against competent players
- bringing up the warr, ele, thief as strong 1v1, only to say direct class comparisons are irrelevant later on
(edited by Seetoo.9316)
Since this thread has veered way off course from the topic of providing flamethrower suggestions, it will now be locked. In the future, please refrain from attacking each other’s suggestions and comments.
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