Guild Wars 2

1-10, basic scale.
starting with thief.
skill level: 1
damage output: 10
warrior: skill level 2, damage output 10
guardian: skill level 7, damage output 6
ranger: skill level 4, damage output: 7
elementalist: skill level 4, damage output: 10
mesmer: skill level 5, damage output 8
necromancer: skill level 9, damage output: 6
engineer: skill level 9, damage output 5

given that 2 out of the 8 professions merely have to hit “2” to deal a majority of your hp in damage, (warrior and thief) they are at the lowest end of the skill spectrum. although warriors are ‘slightly’ harder to play than thieves.
guardians, the leader of the pack, mostly a support class, has limited burst damage output, but good crowd control. ranger has the best ground aoe’s in game(bonfire) which warrior can use as a burst skill with their longbow. elementalist has the best staff damage in the game, a disturbingly high amount of crowd control, and more skills than any class in the game(that means more versatile than engineer) necromancer is probably the best annoyance i can think of in a zerg vs zerg battle, their aoe conditions are unmatched, but only have one real raw damage output weapon, daggers. engineers have a lot of sustained(albeit sub-par) damage, and 1v1ing usually very well. the jackofnotrades approach is mostly accurate,

sure some of this seems biased, but after taking so many 6k’s from thieves to the back despite having over 2800 armor, is a little strange. not to mention being in a zergfight and getting one shotted by a warrior’s snipe ability. no class in guild wars 2 should have capabilities that another class does not, and i’m pretty sure that was one of the mission statements that most of us were sold on when buying the game.(other than the obvious stuff, no thieves using scepters kthx)
rant over. love you

Out of curiousity, are you basing this upon your combat log, or the profession forums, or have you played level 80 of each profession for many many hours and have hands-on experience with all of them?

Lightsbane.9012:

no class in guild wars 2 should have capabilities that another class does not

I appreciate your concern for the engineer profession. I don’t think I can agree with this statement, though. I would hope that every profession has capabilities that no one else has.

I’d recommend making a character of each profession and playing in sPvP for a few minutes. It gives you a good idea of what each profession can actually do and what its weaknesses are.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Lightsbane.9012:

no class in guild wars 2 should have capabilities that another class does not

I appreciate your concern for the engineer profession. I don’t think I can agree with this statement, though. I would hope that every profession has capabilities that no one else has.

I’d recommend making a character of each profession and playing in sPvP for a few minutes. It gives you a good idea of what each profession can actually do and what its weaknesses are.

i have 3 80s. mesmer, engineer, ranger. guardian level 65, i’ve played world vs world enough to know what i’m talking about. through experience, i understand thief does an absurd amount of damage compared to engineer. this is a thread about comparing damage outputs. and relating them to the skill level required to thoroughly comprehend each class. and i’d say wvw is better for understanding classes than anything else suggested, even your own class. i understand that engineer is meant to be an in your face support class, only that’s not how most wvw engies play.

Lightsbane.9012:

i have 3 80s. mesmer, engineer, ranger. guardian level 65, i’ve played world vs world enough to know what i’m talking about. through experience, i understand thief does an absurd amount of damage compared to engineer. this is a thread about comparing damage outputs. and relating them to the skill level required to thoroughly comprehend each class. and i’d say wvw is better for understanding classes than anything else suggested, even your own class. i understand that engineer is meant to be an in your face support class, only that’s not how most wvw engies play.

Hmm, okay. I guess I’m not sure what the meaning of the thread is.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Lightsbane.9012:

i have 3 80s. mesmer, engineer, ranger. guardian level 65, i’ve played world vs world enough to know what i’m talking about. through experience, i understand thief does an absurd amount of damage compared to engineer. this is a thread about comparing damage outputs. and relating them to the skill level required to thoroughly comprehend each class. and i’d say wvw is better for understanding classes than anything else suggested, even your own class. i understand that engineer is meant to be an in your face support class, only that’s not how most wvw engies play.

Hmm, okay. I guess I’m not sure what the meaning of the thread is.

you know how in most games theres a class difficulty next to the class type in the character creation menu? that’s what this thread is about. trying to put the skill level next to the class in order to decide how popular and how powerful each class is. and of course, ranger, warrior, thief, elementalist are the most popular and thus do the most damage.

Lightsbane.9012:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Lightsbane.9012:

i have 3 80s. mesmer, engineer, ranger. guardian level 65, i’ve played world vs world enough to know what i’m talking about. through experience, i understand thief does an absurd amount of damage compared to engineer. this is a thread about comparing damage outputs. and relating them to the skill level required to thoroughly comprehend each class. and i’d say wvw is better for understanding classes than anything else suggested, even your own class. i understand that engineer is meant to be an in your face support class, only that’s not how most wvw engies play.

Hmm, okay. I guess I’m not sure what the meaning of the thread is.

you know how in most games theres a class difficulty next to the class type in the character creation menu? that’s what this thread is about. trying to put the skill level next to the class in order to decide how popular and how powerful each class is. and of course, ranger, warrior, thief, elementalist are the most popular and thus do the most damage.

Your “difficulty” scale is only related to damage output, as far as I can tell. Not all classes are designed to simply output damage. The Guardian, for example, is one of the best classes for surviving while supporting your zerg. Are those Thieves that are backstabbing you hard to kill? Some people like to use glass-cannon builds and destroy their enemy before their squishi-ness comes into the equation. Every class must have it’s playstyle which means no class should be identical to any other; there would be no use for more than 1 class. All the classes can achieve a similar outcome, not identical.

Most people think Thieves suck at support and survivability. Where is your difficulty scale for that aspect of play?

Lightsbane.9012:

no class in guild wars 2 should have capabilities that another class does not

Absolutely. What is their combat statement on the front page?

“Every profession in Guild Wars 2 excels at combat, without exception. Because each profession is so versatile and has such a wide range of skills and powers, it doesn’t matter what mix of professions are on the battlefield.”

So untrue right now. We’re seeing all kinds of classism in the game with both gear and professions. Part of it is their keeping the skill behaviors and damage the same throughout for so long so we’ll see what the next patch holds for fixes/buffs to broken skills that shouldn’t have been done this way. But all in all it’s definitely not a fair system.

As an engineer I’d like to know where my 1 shot ability is. Sniper kit? Where’s the change to do alot of damage all at once? No burst = crappy design honestly. And don’t tell me you do burst just fine with grenades we’re not talking about standing still on top of a building in WvW throwing stuff at people who can’t reach you properly we’re talking the autotarget skills that every other 1 shot capable class has access to without blinking twice.

If engineers are to continue being classified as adventurers, they need their traits overhauled so that we have the 25% run speed ooc permanent, and traits that properly increase damage and crit like the thief/ranger trait trees offer. We also need an overhaul on the AI of the turrets and a 90% AOE damage immunity on pets across the board so they’ll stay alive for more then 5 seconds, because their recent addition to the toughness of the pets doesn’t really work well.

Sorry, but I can’t justify putting an elementalist on the same difficulty level as a ranger.

Leashe.6472:

Sorry, but I can’t justify putting an elementalist on the same difficulty level as a ranger.

I think that elementalist = meteor storm zerg vs. zerg in this thread.

I’m usually very patient with threads complaining about balance, but this is getting a bit out of hand. “Difficulty” is a pretty ambiguous term. Are we talking about how many button presses it takes to see a big damage number? If so, I’m not sure why we’re talking about that, as it doesn’t really matter.

I’ll never understand these threads that want the Engineer to be just like another profession. Play that profession instead?

Pendelus.3764:

Lightsbane.9012:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Lightsbane.9012:

i have 3 80s. mesmer, engineer, ranger. guardian level 65, i’ve played world vs world enough to know what i’m talking about. through experience, i understand thief does an absurd amount of damage compared to engineer. this is a thread about comparing damage outputs. and relating them to the skill level required to thoroughly comprehend each class. and i’d say wvw is better for understanding classes than anything else suggested, even your own class. i understand that engineer is meant to be an in your face support class, only that’s not how most wvw engies play.

Hmm, okay. I guess I’m not sure what the meaning of the thread is.

you know how in most games theres a class difficulty next to the class type in the character creation menu? that’s what this thread is about. trying to put the skill level next to the class in order to decide how popular and how powerful each class is. and of course, ranger, warrior, thief, elementalist are the most popular and thus do the most damage.

Your “difficulty” scale is only related to damage output, as far as I can tell. Not all classes are designed to simply output damage. The Guardian, for example, is one of the best classes for surviving while supporting your zerg. Are those Thieves that are backstabbing you hard to kill? Some people like to use glass-cannon builds and destroy their enemy before their squishi-ness comes into the equation. Every class must have it’s playstyle which means no class should be identical to any other; there would be no use for more than 1 class. All the classes can achieve a similar outcome, not identical.

Most people think Thieves suck at support and survivability. Where is your difficulty scale for that aspect of play?

i’m a little too used to world vs world mechanics so…i’ll put one out.
as for survivability, i’d say engineer is actually the best at it. nearly impossible to condition me.

great thread for great laughs~ thanks!

Lightsbane.9012:

engineer: skill level 9, damage output 5

On behalf of all the Engineers who know what we’re doing, I just want to apologize for our class getting nerfed so often. It all must seem very confusing to the Engineers who don’t know what they’re doing.

Since you haven’t rolled a thief, I’m not sure what your using to judge how difficult they are to play beyond the fact you got destroyed a few times. Engis and Necros have very few reliable escapes, which makes us easy pray for skilled burst damage thieves. If that thief slips up once and doesn’t burst you down quick enough, he’ll melt after just a few grenades.

rfdarko.4639:

Since you haven’t rolled a thief, I’m not sure what your using to judge how difficult they are to play beyond the fact you got destroyed a few times. Engis and Necros have very few reliable escapes, which makes us easy pray for skilled burst damage thieves. If that thief slips up once and doesn’t burst you down quick enough, he’ll melt after just a few grenades.

i actually have rolled a thief. sooooOooOo…

Yeah pretty bias post. Way off the mark imo

I’ve only ever played theif and engi, over 1500 hrs worth, and can say with confidence their dmg output is very similar if specced for burst.. Also thief is probly harder to play as its much more squishy, around 5k less hp, and u need to time your dodges and movement better.

Soooooooo

U must be kidding or playing engi with pistol/shield + EG…

Ele deals not that much dmg – maybe a 6. If ele is 10 in dmg, engi is 15 then and necro also 13. Just uninstall game – u have no clue.

Ummmm…engineers do a lot more damage than necro and ele…….>.> and engineers attack a lot faster using bombs/grenades only thing is ele imo, has more support than engineer.

For me, thief does less dmg then engi in dungons. Anyway, only warrior is superior to engi . The point is 98 of 100 engis play kitten. No offense, this class just needs 500+ hours to be average. And some ppl just need much more time.

Adamantium.3682:

I’ll never understand these threads that want the Engineer to be just like another profession. Play that profession instead?

Every profession, wants to have something from another profession.
I don’t understand why so many people bash threads similar to this. I thought this thread was interesting, while some of my views are different, it doesn’t matter, this is the OP’s opinion. You can tell this because we do not see numbers justifying this ranking system. An opinion is defined as: A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. Why does it matter if the OP’s opinions differ from yours? If you aren’t going to offer constructive criticism why bother commenting on this thread?

why are you guys bashing on the OP? he just posted a thread about his personal opinion of the classes. you may think differently, as I, of a class or two than he does, but you still get the kittening point…

Yikes, simmer down. I didn’t bash anything. I’m genuinely wondering why, if other professions are so much more appealing, does the OP not just play them? No sarcasm or veiled insults there. If the answer is something like “I enjoy the armor Engineer can wear” or “the skills are so much more fun” or “because explosions” those are great answers, I simply want to know what keeps so many people here — not just the OP — “stuck” on a profession they don’t find all that good.

I am most attracted to the Engineer so I play it. If I was in the position that the OP is in and other professions seemed so much better to me I would just play them instead of suffering with an inferiority complex, so I am honestly confused what would keep someone playing an Engineer if they think other professions are better.

Maiden England.3491:

why are you guys bashing on the OP? he just posted a thread about his personal opinion of the classes. you may think differently, as I, of a class or two than he does, but you still get the kittening point…

Damage is math. It is kind of stupid to form opinions on math solutions as an alternative to actually working them out.

I’d agree with most of what the OP has posted.

Thief takes little to no effort to play and still deal significant damage.

Thief
—————————————————
Pressing 2 is just so hard.
Escape mechanism: Hit stealth. Walk/Run away. Likewise pressing 2 to get some distance.

Everybody else
————————————————-
Damage for every other class: hit multiple keys, even auto attacks to do good damage.
Escape mechanism: Use specific gap closing mechanism to get some distance.

Engineer
————————————————-
Damage: trait, then gear, then select kit to do damage. Basic weapons don’t really do much other than for usage while higher damage abilities are on cooldown.
Escape mechanism: Rifle, if you have it equipped, Elixir Gun, if you have it equipped.

Forestnator.6298:

U must be kidding or playing engi with pistol/shield + EG…

Ele deals not that much dmg – maybe a 6. If ele is 10 in dmg, engi is 15 then and necro also 13. Just uninstall game – u have no clue.

really? because that staff aoe is ridiculous.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Ummmm…engineers do a lot more damage than necro and ele…….>.> and engineers attack a lot faster using bombs/grenades only thing is ele imo, has more support than engineer.

engineers have no condition spreads that are useful(elixir gun is not useful) Necromancers have possibly the best condition spreads, applications, and crowd control in the game. on that ground their damage is higher than Engineer’s. Elementalists have group support and spike AoE damage.( i guess grenade barrage counts as spike AoE damage, the grenade skills certainly don’t) i guess the problem with me posting a thread like this is i’m not counting PvE experience, and i won’t.

luckywaldo.6089:

Damage is math. It is kind of stupid to form opinions on math solutions as an alternative to actually working them out.

That’s why his post is not just about damage; its about being able to achieve that damage versus the skill required. The skill required is the subjective part that requires you to formulate an opinion.

WIGZ.8245:

Everybody else
————————————————-
Damage for every other class: hit multiple keys, even auto attacks to do good damage.
Escape mechanism: Use specific gap closing mechanism to get some distance.

You have obviously not played a mesmer.

Troll thread. Nothing to see here guys.

Benjamin.7893:

Troll thread. Nothing to see here guys.

you want a troll thread? go post a ‘warriors getting buffed’ in the mesmer forum.

Lightsbane.9012:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Ummmm…engineers do a lot more damage than necro and ele…….>.> and engineers attack a lot faster using bombs/grenades only thing is ele imo, has more support than engineer.

engineers have no condition spreads that are useful(elixir gun is not useful) Necromancers have possibly the best condition spreads, applications, and crowd control in the game. on that ground their damage is higher than Engineer’s. Elementalists have group support and spike AoE damage.( i guess grenade barrage counts as spike AoE damage, the grenade skills certainly don’t) i guess the problem with me posting a thread like this is i’m not counting PvE experience, and i won’t.

Lightsbane.9012:

Forestnator.6298:

U must be kidding or playing engi with pistol/shield + EG…

Ele deals not that much dmg – maybe a 6. If ele is 10 in dmg, engi is 15 then and necro also 13. Just uninstall game – u have no clue.

really? because that staff aoe is ridiculous.

It appears that most of your evaluations are based on WvW fights of about 20v20 or more, which is fine. Might have wanted to state that up front, though. Yes, glass cannon staff eles are simple and effective in that situation. Just don’t be surprised if people disagree with you when they’re talking about a completely different aspect of the game.

Also, if you’re thinking of mostly 40+ WvW encounters, why are thieves ranked so high? They’re pretty good roaming gankers vs. anyone who doesn’t have a stunbreak, and their stealth sustain builds are also good in WvW. I’m not sure where the 1:10 skill:damage ratio is coming from in large-scale fights.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Lightsbane.9012:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Ummmm…engineers do a lot more damage than necro and ele…….>.> and engineers attack a lot faster using bombs/grenades only thing is ele imo, has more support than engineer.

engineers have no condition spreads that are useful(elixir gun is not useful) Necromancers have possibly the best condition spreads, applications, and crowd control in the game. on that ground their damage is higher than Engineer’s. Elementalists have group support and spike AoE damage.( i guess grenade barrage counts as spike AoE damage, the grenade skills certainly don’t) i guess the problem with me posting a thread like this is i’m not counting PvE experience, and i won’t.

Lightsbane.9012:

Forestnator.6298:

U must be kidding or playing engi with pistol/shield + EG…

Ele deals not that much dmg – maybe a 6. If ele is 10 in dmg, engi is 15 then and necro also 13. Just uninstall game – u have no clue.

really? because that staff aoe is ridiculous.

It appears that most of your evaluations are based on WvW fights of about 20v20 or more, which is fine. Might have wanted to state that up front, though. Yes, glass cannon staff eles are simple and effective in that situation. Just don’t be surprised if people disagree with you when they’re talking about a completely different aspect of the game.

Also, if you’re thinking of mostly 40+ WvW encounters, why are thieves ranked so high? They’re pretty good roaming gankers vs. anyone who doesn’t have a stunbreak, and their stealth sustain builds are also good in WvW. I’m not sure where the 1:10 skill:damage ratio is coming from in large-scale fights.

i’m thinking of both 1v1 scenarios, zerg fights, etc. i have no problem with most glass builds in a 1v1 scenario. i’m mainly comparing the ability of the classes to dish out damage and how they have to dish it out. the classes that don’t really need to do much to dish out damage, have been ranked low on the skill level spectrum, and oppositely on their damage capability spectrum. it is empirical fact that almost all game developers favor the holy trinity classes, even if they claim to not exist within their own games.

Lightsbane.9012:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Ummmm…engineers do a lot more damage than necro and ele…….>.> and engineers attack a lot faster using bombs/grenades only thing is ele imo, has more support than engineer.

engineers have no condition spreads that are useful(elixir gun is not useful) Necromancers have possibly the best condition spreads, applications, and crowd control in the game. on that ground their damage is higher than Engineer’s. Elementalists have group support and spike AoE damage.( i guess grenade barrage counts as spike AoE damage, the grenade skills certainly don’t) i guess the problem with me posting a thread like this is i’m not counting PvE experience, and i won’t.

Made my day

Condition with Grenades and P/P:

25 stacks AoE bleeding,
perma posion AoE
3/4 of the time AoE burning
3/4 of the time AoE chill
25 stacks AoE vulnerability
AoE blindnes every 4,8 seconds on average

+ awesome burst damge through might stacking with outclasses berserker ele allready. Lol. Now I know why your ratings sucks so hard, u never played engi.

and don’T forget: might stacking push ConditionDmg up to 2500+ stat points.

Anyway: if I do dps-messurements, I kill objekt nearly twice as fast as any ele and neraly as fast as berserker GS Warri. Srsly, engineer is a high schoolar class – don’T think u can play this class after 500 hours.

Lightsbane.9012:

i’m thinking of both 1v1 scenarios, zerg fights, etc. i have no problem with most glass builds in a 1v1 scenario. i’m mainly comparing the ability of the classes to dish out damage and how they have to dish it out. the classes that don’t really need to do much to dish out damage, have been ranked low on the skill level spectrum, and oppositely on their damage capability spectrum. it is empirical fact that almost all game developers favor the holy trinity classes, even if they claim to not exist within their own games.

So thieves are a 1:10 because they have a high damage single-target melee attack, and eles are 4:10 because they have a high damage ranged AoE attack? I’d say that every profession is a 10 if you’re only talking about each build’s ideal situation.

What about how easy/difficult each profession’s damage is to avoid? For example, hundred blades is idiotically easy to walk out of. Heartseeker isn’t much more difficult to avoid. Sure, they’re high dps attacks, but does that really mean anything?