Scrapper changes

Scrapper changes

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

There is a bug with the thread.

Sometimes the last post on page one for example,
makes it so that no posts in the thread are visible
until another post has been made.

So here is another post.

(edited by Yashuoa.9527)

Scrapper changes

in Engineer

Posted by: Myxam.2790

Myxam.2790

Scrapper destroyed the Engineer identity. It is literally contrary to everything the Engineer used to be.

You, really don’t know what you’re talking about and it hurts my soul to have to reply to you.

The Identity of the class up to this point has been kits — the kittenty knock-off of Attunements for Elementalists (That’s really what they are), when it should been far more “This class can literally do anything in the right circumstances and with the right RNG.”

Hammer’s a Tanky weapon, which Engineers really lacked outside of Tool Kit (which almost no one freaking ran because all the Engi Purists are so caught up in RNGrenades). I’m loving Hammer, and it was my real introduction to the class.

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

Hammer’s a Tanky weapon, which Engineers really lacked outside of Tool Kit (which almost no one freaking ran because all the Engi Purists are so caught up in RNGrenades). I’m loving Hammer, and it was my real introduction to the class.

what are you even saying
toolkit was meta for 2 years in pvp before HoT because of that block

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

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Posted by: David.5974

David.5974

Scrapper destroyed the Engineer identity. It is literally contrary to everything the Engineer used to be.

You, really don’t know what you’re talking about and it hurts my soul to have to reply to you.

The Identity of the class up to this point has been kits — the kittenty knock-off of Attunements for Elementalists (That’s really what they are), when it should been far more “This class can literally do anything in the right circumstances and with the right RNG.”

Hammer’s a Tanky weapon, which Engineers really lacked outside of Tool Kit (which almost no one freaking ran because all the Engi Purists are so caught up in RNGrenades). I’m loving Hammer, and it was my real introduction to the class.

Scrapper is Anet mistake. Tool kit was almost in every meta build. I don’t know how long you play this class.

And except this pvp meta, i never use hammer anywhere. Where you want use it? In raid for tanking is better condi. In open world I take p/p+4 kit and with 5 blind skills i can’t die. For dungeon speed run still rifle/nade power build… so i don’t think that hammer is engineer image. It’s only toy for new engineers.

If you like it, okay. For me totally useless(meaby after balance in pvp too).

“Doctor suggest me, to stop play with engi because my fingers are broken.
So.. I start play scrapper. "

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Posted by: Anthony.1579

Anthony.1579

Here is my issue not just with scrapper but with general engineer as well.

Scrapper traits are decent . I use scrapper traits with marauder amulet offensive rune and sigils, and stack all defense traits. It balances out to a semi tanky extreme pressure melee dps.

Hammer deals way to much damage. My autos hit for like 1.5 to 2.5 k a hit and my 2 3 4 5 buttons all do anywhere from 2-10k damage depends on crits and if they land.

If you look at the tool tip i think the average damatge is 4.5k or 2.5k x 5

I won’t lie, i love playing hammer because i get killing blows – like a warrior hammer greatsword stance kind of pressure. But it is the only build worth using in structured pvp.
And in pvp i never rez other people. Why should i rez other people when i can do damage and put pressure ? I use scrapper traits for defensive to cover my offensive stacking of runes sigils and amulet. Scrapper trait line is not that good in pve or raiding. It doesn’t reduce the massive damage you take in raiding. Better to dodge or avoid damage all together rather than reduce damage.

and in PvE hammer is a fail concept as raid tank. I don’t think hammer can do enough damage to maguam jungle monsters and survive. Condition pistols are better for soloig, leveling, raiding. Hell any offensive build is better than a defensive build in PvE – soloing, being an engineer raider, farming and grinding.

As for classic engineer. Tool kit used to be good prior to the expansion, but hammer is better in almost every possible way. Tool kit needs a remake or incredible buffs to be even considered being used in pvp pve. Hammer is not just a defensive weapon – it is a Defensive and Offensive burst pressure weapon. Toolkit is hard to hit with a tiny melee hit range, and while it has some decent skills (magnet is pretty cool and shield is basically immortality for a few seconds) ultimately it’s not that great. Tools is not that great.

Bomb and grenade kit has it’s place. I use it as “part of a rotation” not as stand alone kits. I use pistols and swap to grenades and use 2 and 5 (bleed and poison) and then swap to bomb use 2 (fire field) and out of it, until those skills coldowns are up.
Same with morter kit. I only use morter kit for the poison field and never anything else.

I cannot image making a power build with grenades or bomb kit. Seems like it doesn’t do enough damage, clunky aim, and doesn’t offer any useful utility. Bomb kit could be decent in pvp, but i think it is still not as awesome as hammer.

Elixirs….elixirs i don’t like. They take up a slot to be use as a “reactive” ability and you save it until you use it in reaction to something – cleansing conditions – rezzing allies – buffing your self for damage – going invincible for a few seconds to absorb fatal attacks.

I think elixirs are like defensive and offensive coldowns. Just like World of warcraft.

WORLD OF WARCRAFT – You get 25 spells on 3 hot bars. You get 5-7 attack rotation spells, 2-3 defensive coldown spells – 1-2 offensive coldowns – 1-2 buff spells – 1-3 Utility spells – 1-3 class abilties (totems, pet training skills, stealth stealing spells, rage mechanics skills)

Why am i talking about world of warcraft ? Well the engineer has only 3 slots for spells 1 healing slot and 1 ultimate slot.

Elixirs are like Heavy coldown abilities. If you have the elixir spells in addition to 1 healing slot skill 3 utility slot skills and 1 ultimate slot skill, you would be incredibly powerful.

World of waracrt balances their classes by giving every class the same tools – some defensive and offensive coldowns, some utility coldowns, some attack rotation abilities, class abilities, and other buttons for profession, teleporting, summon toys pets, and stuff.

Engineer elixirs are NEVER worth slotting in your utility slots. Even if you go HGH you still are useless when you pop your elixirs or try to counter every build and you get boon ripped, as well as having no cc damage or healing. You lose a lot to have elixirs slotted instead of kits.

The engineer has a lot of good skills that would be awesome for a game where you had all your skills. But the way guild wars 2 is designed, that makes it hard to balance engineer. You can only slot 3 skills 1 healing skill and 1 ultimate skill. Because the meta gaming and min maxing, you will usually slot kits and maybe that shrink invisible elixir as a defensive coldown.

In guild wars 2 the limited number of active skills you can use, make engineer very weak. If he could spam turrets and elixirs and gadgets and use all his kits and spells in 1 package in combat – engineer would be crazy good.

Why slot kits ? Because slotting kits gives you more attack options, more crowd control, more utility, more options. Each kit has 1-3 attack abilities, as well as a cc conditioning attack, healing or slow (elixir gun tools) and overall it’s just more powerful to have kits as your slots and have options to be strong for many counters.

If you need more extra support, buy a razor naga mouse, it gives you very much powerful control of your kits and abilities.

I am not angry, salty, upset, or mad, i am ranting kind of haha. I am just telling you my philosophy and experience with the engineer class.

As for rifle…rifle has the potential to be good, but it should have it’a 1# auto attack damage increased or maybe inflict vulnerability perhaps ? It pierces which is kind of nice, but it is only good in Mass zerg wpvp and there are much better options.

The rifle has a tons of cc, and decent close melee range damage. It’s a decent weapon, but hammer is better.

Hammer has damage, defensive reflects, a stun, and a way to get into melee. The hammer is a strong overloaded weapon. It’s amazing.

Elixir gun is useful for it’s 1# because of fumble, and it can be useful in pvp if you can aim it’s skills (clunky aiming) but it scales poorly because you need healing power, condition, Power, and precision to make it useful for damage. The elixir gun is useful more for it’s utility and boons and conditions. It is a decent underrated weapon, but in PvP offensive and aggression are kind. Elixir gun is a defensive support weapon, and doesn’t serve well.

The pistol’s shield is not useful at all. Look at elixir. Same concept. With shield- You get defensive coldowns that last 3 or 4 seconds and they have 30 + sec coldown. That doesn’t work well and it is better to slot more damage from the pistol than to slot 2 defensive coldowns. The hammer has better defensive skills. If you were to make a bunker build, i could see shield elixirs being decent, but you would lose more games than win games

A note – in PvP games are won by putting pressure, not by playing defensively. If you are winning by playing defensive, it means the enemy is not putting pressure – or trying to win.

Turrets are incredibly useless in pvp and pve. They are basically cones / totems – immovable little objects that are supposed to block and create defensive perimeter (turtling) guard a area. Since anet sees that has toxic gameplay in pvp, they cannot function in the role they are supposed to do. In Pve they should be able to do 50% more damage to PvE NPCS or AI target monsters.
The boon thing has the potential to be useful. I would do this -

Make turrets tankier in pvp and make them create boons at a range of 1500 feet (Super long range) BUT give them a limited duration (maybe 6-8 seconds) and remove self destructing the turret OR keep it for blast finisher w/e. Now they are buffing cones. You can summon a boon buff every 25 + seconds for 6-8 seconds and help defend an area (buff all allies). The different between that and elixirs, is turrets would have shorter coldowns, better boon giving, still be able to fight (auto attack) and yes…they would make an area more entrenched if 3 or 4 players are there getting boons it would be like a turtle but more of a buffing zone.

But that is just a suggestion.

I think gadgets have the potential to be the most Overpowered skills in the entire game, but right now they are not that strong.

If you increased or gave damage to the gadget spells, they would be powerful damage and cc abilities, and you could slot 3 gadgets and the tools trait (that shoots lightning bolts) and make a strong OP bursting engineer. But other than that gadgets are good for pve bar breaker.

TLDR: Hammer is OP in PvP needs a heavy nerf or rework, engineer kits are viable in pve and pvp for having access to more spells for situations, elixirs are useless to take, turrets cant fulfill their defensive role, gadgets could be good but need damage buffs.

Thanks for reading.

(edited by Anthony.1579)

Scrapper changes

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Posted by: Voramoz.6790

Voramoz.6790

If it has a 40 sec cooldown make its duration 40 seconds as well. Otherwise this is too powerful of a nerf. I do not think sneak gyro will be dead, like so many otheres, but scrappers need work via gyros as is. I think a simple radius increase would solve pathing issues.

There are a ton of useless skills and traits which need revised. Even among elite specialization lines like scrapper.

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Posted by: Rezzet.3614

Rezzet.3614

i think scrapper damage is ok all of the skills give the illusion of being hard hitters but when youo think about it all of scrapper skill are channeled and when you compare the full chains vs spamming auto you’ll see there’s not much of a diference in dps ,scrapper is doing what its meant to be be a Bruiser specialization that focuses on pressuring enemies not to mention lack of weapon swap and not being able to attack while invulnerable

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Posted by: Chazz.6709

Chazz.6709

Ugh … Another PvP/WvW Orientaited balance changes …. really ? What about PVE ? Dear devs you always forget the PVE CONTENT in your OWN game ! …. Sure its now 40 seconds ,which mean less time to use it , but still it will be usefull sometimes ,if you stand still ,since it just can’t keep up with you and i think with each patch they do it’s getting more and more terrible.It stuck almost everywhere …. It’s atm only good for another “lifesaver” means if you got knocked down or close to die or need to rez somebody…
So how about to improve gyros mobility ? Otherwise it will be frustating to disappear out of stealth and get hitted and then get stealthed or that gyro stuck at the wrong time.

The other gyros are fun to be used , but they still show , that they lack … more functions or more important stuff and are kinda PvP Stuff …. it’s my opinion atleast.

Rocket Charge gonna get 2 seconds more cd ? Are you kidding me … It doesnt event grant us evasion for the whole skill casting ,compared to the other classes out there ? So there was already your “defensive” Nerf.In PvP some ppls can counter that really easy.

Tool kit getting buffed ? Sweet!

So now we can stomp scrapper for pve totally ?Maybe a bit overreacted but still …. all those PvP only changes are annoying as a pve player.
Look at Grenade barrage bug ( Yes it was fun and great !) it took them a looong time to fix it.First it was fixxed in Pve ,but still bugged in Pvp and then fixxed in PvP aswell … So there are two Systems ? Why we dont keep it splitted ? You got your “pvp expert” anet and your “pve creator” Go ahead ?
Unless if they keep doing balance patches orientaited to PvP/WvW , then please cross PVE over and say “PVP only game” …. or something like that.

Also takedownround + 30 % more dmg ? Nice ! I thinkittenep playing my normal engi … instead scrapper ? Somehow sad …

“All genius said it’s impossible – until someone just did it.”

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Posted by: Krysard.1364

Krysard.1364

If it has a 40 sec cooldown make its duration 40 seconds as well. Otherwise this is too powerful of a nerf. I do not think sneak gyro will be dead, like so many otheres, but scrappers need work via gyros as is. I think a simple radius increase would solve pathing issues.

There are a ton of useless skills and traits which need revised. Even among elite specialization lines like scrapper.

Gyro was broken on PvP, and it will still be…

M I L K B O I S

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Posted by: Kodama.6453

Kodama.6453

If it has a 40 sec cooldown make its duration 40 seconds as well. Otherwise this is too powerful of a nerf. I do not think sneak gyro will be dead, like so many otheres, but scrappers need work via gyros as is. I think a simple radius increase would solve pathing issues.

There are a ton of useless skills and traits which need revised. Even among elite specialization lines like scrapper.

Gyro was broken on PvP, and it will still be…

Why should it? It still has the downside to have a targetable gyro.
Just kill the Sneak Gyro (which shouldn’t be a problem, they die in seconds), then you have 40 seconds to burst the scrapper.

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Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

The Identity of the class up to this point has been kits — the kittenty knock-off of Attunements for Elementalists (That’s really what they are), when it should been far more “This class can literally do anything in the right circumstances and with the right RNG.”

Nah, the identity of the class has always been clicking more buttons than other classes to produce the same results. Ele’s attunements each have a seperate identity. Engi’s kits are different flavours of condi damage.

(edited by RabbitUp.8294)

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Posted by: Krysard.1364

Krysard.1364

If it has a 40 sec cooldown make its duration 40 seconds as well. Otherwise this is too powerful of a nerf. I do not think sneak gyro will be dead, like so many otheres, but scrappers need work via gyros as is. I think a simple radius increase would solve pathing issues.

There are a ton of useless skills and traits which need revised. Even among elite specialization lines like scrapper.

Gyro was broken on PvP, and it will still be…

Why should it? It still has the downside to have a targetable gyro.
Just kill the Sneak Gyro (which shouldn’t be a problem, they die in seconds), then you have 40 seconds to burst the scrapper.

While you kill the gyro, engie has healed/kited/disengaged, and before you can down him another time the 40s cd have expired. Also, you can safestomp so many ppl and easy rezz all the ones that can move in downstate. The survivality and utility the engi gains with this elite are sooo big that the 20s cd was broken

M I L K B O I S

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Posted by: Darknicrofia.2604

Darknicrofia.2604

If it has a 40 sec cooldown make its duration 40 seconds as well. Otherwise this is too powerful of a nerf. I do not think sneak gyro will be dead, like so many otheres, but scrappers need work via gyros as is. I think a simple radius increase would solve pathing issues.

There are a ton of useless skills and traits which need revised. Even among elite specialization lines like scrapper.

Gyro was broken on PvP, and it will still be…

Why should it? It still has the downside to have a targetable gyro.
Just kill the Sneak Gyro (which shouldn’t be a problem, they die in seconds), then you have 40 seconds to burst the scrapper.

lol…the gyros were used as 100% on demand stealth rez/stomp secure skills, killing the gyro in 3 secs does nothing when the scrapper have already secured the res or stomp.

also lol…the class that routinely puts out 1 million damage in a pvp match wants…MORE damage to offset a piddly 2 second recharge increase on a triple leap finisher evade skill.

Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

Terrible comments Darknicrofia … be more serious and you will get a more constructive response.

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: Darknicrofia.2604

Darknicrofia.2604

To suggest “just kill the sneak gyro” as a counter-play for how overpowered they are in pvp means you simply have zero idea how they’re used in pvp, or don’t pvp at all.

same with wanting to add more damage to hammer.

Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

hes full of hyperbole but hes right

people are demanding compensation for nerfs to things that scrapper does arguably too well when scrapper is a problem in pvp.

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

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Posted by: displacedTitan.6897

displacedTitan.6897

Hammer and Sneak Gyro are both OP. To pretend otherwise is either ignorant or disingenuous (depending on your knowledge level).

Hammer should not have both the best defense AND strongest offense in pvp. There is no reason that I should be hitting people for 6-8k with rocket charge, 6k with electro whirl and 3-4k with my block, in a row, through a stun (from hammer) while stacking vuln for funsies.

Sneak Gyro at 20 second CD makes you unkillable, for real, if you die as a scrapper you are a bad player. You can endlessly reset fights by popping sneak, running away a little ways and healing up and going back in. Between broken hammer, dura runes and sneak gyro Scrappers are fully OP in both damage and defence.

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

Hammer and Sneak Gyro are both OP. To pretend otherwise is either ignorant or disingenuous (depending on your knowledge level).

Hammer should not have both the best defense AND strongest offense in pvp. There is no reason that I should be hitting people for 6-8k with rocket charge, 6k with electro whirl and 3-4k with my block, in a row, through a stun (from hammer) while stacking vuln for funsies.

Sneak Gyro at 20 second CD makes you unkillable, for real, if you die as a scrapper you are a bad player. You can endlessly reset fights by popping sneak, running away a little ways and healing up and going back in. Between broken hammer, dura runes and sneak gyro Scrappers are fully OP in both damage and defence.

Dura runes are going away next week. Sneak Gyro CD doubled…. its a pretty big hit on Scrapper.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

Hammer should not have both the best defense AND strongest offense in pvp.

Agreed, let’s buff rifles offense and shields defense!

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

Hammer and Sneak Gyro are both OP. To pretend otherwise is either ignorant or disingenuous (depending on your knowledge level).

Hammer should not have both the best defense AND strongest offense in pvp. There is no reason that I should be hitting people for 6-8k with rocket charge, 6k with electro whirl and 3-4k with my block, in a row, through a stun (from hammer) while stacking vuln for funsies.

Sneak Gyro at 20 second CD makes you unkillable, for real, if you die as a scrapper you are a bad player. You can endlessly reset fights by popping sneak, running away a little ways and healing up and going back in. Between broken hammer, dura runes and sneak gyro Scrappers are fully OP in both damage and defence.

Dura runes are going away next week. Sneak Gyro CD doubled…. its a pretty big hit on Scrapper.

Yeah lets see what effect the lack of durability tunes has.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: Wander.5780

Wander.5780

the gyro’s are f’ing pathetic and desperately need to be fixed… almost makes me not want to play my scrapper despite how good the class is.