Guild Wars 2

WithoutAssumption.7936:

Can I get some clarification, I thought PvE skills weren’t allowed in WvW.

WvW is technically classified a PvE zone, so when you read about nerfs specific to PvP (as with most of the grenadier rebalancing for instance) they’re talking about s/tPvP only.

Czar Peter.7961:

Static discharge is the only build that has what OP wants, but I wouldn’t recommend it. Unlike the glass cannon rifle warrior (which still has heavy armor even with no toughness) and the glass cannon thief (stealth), the static discharge build has very little utility.

Static discharge builds can make excellent use of the toolkit, which offers a fair amount of utility imo, certainly not as much as what a more balanced or tank’ish engineer build can bring, but a lot more than a rifle warrior I would say.
I run a slightly more tanky tesla build myself in W3 from time to time (goggles, traited toolkit, rifle turret) and it offers me a lot more options when things go pair-shaped than my warrior has in a glass cannon setup.

I do agree that if your number one focus is to do single target dps a static discharge build (with or without grenades) will be most suitable.
I would consider at least 20 in firearms and 20 in tools, the rifle turret and the toolkit a must, beyond that it’s whatever floats your boat.

ok rampagers ammy.
huh. noticing rampagers and zerkers both have vit on them, while rabid didnt.

1245 power
2139 prec (62% chance)
944 cond

Again this is just 30 firearms. Allowing you to decide tools or alch, for might in alch or 10-20% crit damage in tools etc.

p1: .35*952*1245/2600=159.6 +62% chance of 50% damage crit=209 average damage aoe.
2s bleed=178
Sharpshooter average=50 damage per hit average. 267 bleed over 3s. 30% of 62%
219 direct hit with target the maimed.
438 with double hit.
178 bleed, 100 average sharpshooter.

PDV: .4 power per shot. 2 total.
420+466.5=886.5 poison over10s.
250 av from sharpshooter
182 hit *62% crit=238average x5=1192 =1252 with 5% target.

Skipping static. because its confuse damage is not really calculable. it depends on spvp, pve, and if your target does anything.

Blowtorch
1 power scaling at 100 range.
1*952, etc. =456*62%crit=597*5%maimed=627
3384 burn over 6s.
3 hits=150 sharpshooter average

Damage over 12s. Skip static for above reasons. Assume p1 coated bullet double hit.
10 explosive shots.
1 pdv, 1 blowtorch.

4380 aoe double hit + 1252 sortof aoe pdv+627 aoe bowtorch
6259 direct

1780 piercing bleed
886.5 poison sortof aoe..
1400 aoe sharpshooter
3384 burn aoe.
7450.5 cond

13709.5 damage applied over 12. Noted, some of this condition damage will tick after the 12s interval.
1142 dps

I noted I made a huge error in crit calculations in previous breakdowns.
Dramatically increasing crit value.

Zerker post corrected. with fullish damage breakdown. And crit value corrected.

Rabid NOT fixed. Need to get back to work for a bit.

Zerker seems to win the zerker vs rampagers question.
Especially when you consider this is vs a 2600 armor target, that is not cleansing, or capping conditions
Has no vul stacks. you are not using 10-20 in tools for 10-20% more crit damage, is not including might, not including fury. 10% crit buff below 50%. all of which will buff direct damage considerably. And have no effect scaling effect on conditions. (scaling meaning +300 cond from might will give zerker and rampager both the same dps gain, while zerker will gain more from the power, as that power will scale with the crit damage on zerker.)
No discharge, or kits included either. A wrench or grenade barrage will tip the scales for zerker as well.

You also make a HUGE miscalculation in assuming condition damage builds. I do not know one engineer that uses a condition damage build that only does 178 in 2 bleeds. It is yet another clear display of the type of fallacy you use in your comparisons and discussions of pistol conversations.

coglin.1496:

You also make a HUGE miscalculation in assuming condition damage builds. I do not know one engineer that uses a condition damage build that only does 178 in 2 bleeds. It is yet another clear display of the type of fallacy you use in your comparisons and discussions of pistol conversations.

you mean other then every spvp one?
I used the spvp amulets as they are even, and we dont have to get into the +/- of varied back pieces, ascended gear, kits not getting stats etc.

In spvp, all your stats on on ammy, traits, and runes. I admitted did not add runes, which would effect the questions. Mostly evenly. although as stated, 50% bleed duration runes are a pretty good buff to bleed damage.

PvE has more stats total, food, realm buffs, etc. Your stats overall are higher. But a higher stat % will only make the one that wins at a lower level even stronger.
Also, note pvp Ammy is valued even. This is why the math is based of this. a closed system where the gear is equal.
You do not have ruby exquisite jewels.

zerker ammy has 20% crit damage, vs rampagers 284 power.
Notice stats are value 1 to 1 to 1 on gear.
So if 20% crit damage is =284 of a stat 14.2 per 1%.

In pve ruby exquisite jewels have 3% crit damage. (25 power/15 prec)
Coral exquisite jewel has 14 cond, 15 power 25 prec.
here 1% crit damage is 4.7 cond.

I have unbuffed 2372 power, and 121% damage crits in pve. stop using that as an excuse. I didnt base my math off that either.
I have 12% crit damage in pve from 6 ruby jewels being itemized wrong. (note again, ascended gear inexplicably mirrors this incorrect itemization)

Just to be sure, are you understanding my bleed statements, in calculating per shot totals?
178 over2s, per shot. means two ticks of 89. with a .85s cast time, this means you will hit twice in 1.7s, and thus fluctuate between 2 and 3 stacks of bleed.
and having 2 and 3 ticks of 89 per second.
For sharpshooter, I am also breaking down into an average damage per hit. while the actual is of course a 3s bleed of 89/tick, 30% of the time, on a 62% crit chance in that instance.

Yyyyeahhh….so….OP here….

I really don’t understand anything that you guys are arguing about…

I just wanted solid single-target DPS builds…

Grenades, Bombs, and Flamethrower are all AoE-based…and nades were just nerfed and FT still isn’t fixed…and bombs are too hard for me to use…

So that leaves p/p, p/s, rifle, tool kit…

I just want to know what will do good single target damage.

…also is it not widely known that pistols are meant for condition damage/precision and rifle is meant for power?

well, we litteraly have only 2 single target weapons.
Rifle. and EG

and if you consider the pierce aoe. we have none. not to mention all the 2-5 skills are aoe.

The pistols=cond is a fallacy. The argument I was making was even pistol, due to coated bullets, direct damage, and scaling on traits, scales better with power.
So pistols are power and cond more specifically. To max their dps, focus on power/crit/crit damage, and gain condition damage via might, and other nominal sources.
Other. not engineer professions do a better job scaling with cond. 15 stack of confuse mesmers, warriors stacking 10s bleed every hit.

Post patch. Rifle is looking really strong for single target dps.
Rifle, tk(for throw wrench and CC), and discharge. Sigil of battle. The rest is up to you. 20 or30 alch, and 10 or 20 tools.
Sitting duck, 10% rifle damage, 20% cdr. (cdr vs range, vs blind is up for grabs. avoid the 50% on crit vul)
alch, 20% cd, 409. hgh if you go 30.
tools. discharge. 20 power tools, if you go 30 take your pick
note, if you go past 20 tools, swap to medkit from elixir h.

utility skills. TK.
elixir B if you go alch, net turret if you go tools maybe. some options here.
Elixir R no matter what. so good.

i run the tankcat build(minus the p/s and tool kit.) 0/30/30/10/0
i still do a crapton of damage. i’m usually out looking to run into thieves and rangers…

Lightsbane.9012:

i run the tankcat build(minus the p/s and tool kit.) 0/30/30/10/0
i still do a crapton of damage. i’m usually out looking to run into thieves and rangers…

I too love the tankcat build, but a lot of it’s damage comes from confusion, and confusion isn’t that helpful in PvE. That’s mainly what I’m looking for – PvE DPS.

Casia.4281:

well, we litteraly have only 2 single target weapons.
Rifle. and EG

and if you consider the pierce aoe. we have none. not to mention all the 2-5 skills are aoe.

The pistols=cond is a fallacy. The argument I was making was even pistol, due to coated bullets, direct damage, and scaling on traits, scales better with power.
So pistols are power and cond more specifically. To max their dps, focus on power/crit/crit damage, and gain condition damage via might, and other nominal sources.
Other. not engineer professions do a better job scaling with cond. 15 stack of confuse mesmers, warriors stacking 10s bleed every hit.

Post patch. Rifle is looking really strong for single target dps.
Rifle, tk(for throw wrench and CC), and discharge. Sigil of battle. The rest is up to you. 20 or30 alch, and 10 or 20 tools.
Sitting duck, 10% rifle damage, 20% cdr. (cdr vs range, vs blind is up for grabs. avoid the 50% on crit vul)
alch, 20% cd, 409. hgh if you go 30.
tools. discharge. 20 power tools, if you go 30 take your pick
note, if you go past 20 tools, swap to medkit from elixir h.

utility skills. TK.
elixir B if you go alch, net turret if you go tools maybe. some options here.
Elixir R no matter what. so good.

I’ve been running a condition damage/precision/toughness p/p engineer…I’m going to try out this power engineer, but I have a question.

Before, my main source of damage was blowtorch…it does massive amounts of condition damage (burning) (I’m talking PvE)…

With Power…would my explosive shot then be my main source of damage?

Also, I’m at level 25, should I get Strong, Honed, or Potent gear?

Lucky Charmz.5089:

Casia.4281:

well, we litteraly have only 2 single target weapons.
Rifle. and EG

and if you consider the pierce aoe. we have none. not to mention all the 2-5 skills are aoe.

The pistols=cond is a fallacy. The argument I was making was even pistol, due to coated bullets, direct damage, and scaling on traits, scales better with power.
So pistols are power and cond more specifically. To max their dps, focus on power/crit/crit damage, and gain condition damage via might, and other nominal sources.
Other. not engineer professions do a better job scaling with cond. 15 stack of confuse mesmers, warriors stacking 10s bleed every hit.

Post patch. Rifle is looking really strong for single target dps.
Rifle, tk(for throw wrench and CC), and discharge. Sigil of battle. The rest is up to you. 20 or30 alch, and 10 or 20 tools.
Sitting duck, 10% rifle damage, 20% cdr. (cdr vs range, vs blind is up for grabs. avoid the 50% on crit vul)
alch, 20% cd, 409. hgh if you go 30.
tools. discharge. 20 power tools, if you go 30 take your pick
note, if you go past 20 tools, swap to medkit from elixir h.

utility skills. TK.
elixir B if you go alch, net turret if you go tools maybe. some options here.
Elixir R no matter what. so good.

I’ve been running a condition damage/precision/toughness p/p engineer…I’m going to try out this power engineer, but I have a question.

Before, my main source of damage was blowtorch…it does massive amounts of condition damage (burning) (I’m talking PvE)…

With Power…would my explosive shot then be my main source of damage?

Burns with moderate durations do do well, in solo pve. As they do not cleanse it.
And you do not have to compete with other allies.
In dungeons however. you can not have 2 burns. anything over 100% uptime is lost damage. Long duration burns are bad due to this. overwritten, cleansed, or target dies. its wasted damage.
Also, once every 12s probably isn’t your main source of damage. Although it is decent for sure.

Not having coated bullets does change things, as you say, you are not max level.
Pistols without coated bullets, I would honestly say are FT bad atm. p1 is pretty bad, EG 1 probably beats it, again, if you dont have coated bullets.
do remember things like retaliation and discharge scale with power though, as well as wrench, barrage, suprise shot.

A leveling build that focuses on discharge, pdv, and static shot should be very effective though.
Strong gear.
10 in tools for discharge. get tk, rifle turret, and maybe grenades for barrage.

Casia.4281:

Burns with moderate durations do do well, in solo pve. As they do not cleanse it.
And you do not have to compete with other allies.
In dungeons however. you can not have 2 burns. anything over 100% uptime is lost damage. Long duration burns are bad due to this. overwritten, cleansed, or target dies. its wasted damage.
Also, once every 12s probably isn’t your main source of damage. Although it is decent for sure.

Not having coated bullets does change things, as you say, you are not max level.
Pistols without coated bullets, I would honestly say are FT bad atm. p1 is pretty bad, EG 1 probably beats it, again, if you dont have coated bullets.
do remember things like retaliation and discharge scale with power though, as well as wrench, barrage, suprise shot.

A leveling build that focuses on discharge, pdv, and static shot should be very effective though.
Strong gear.
10 in tools for discharge. get tk, rifle turret, and maybe grenades for barrage.

So, for my purposes (solo PvE) would it be better to stack condition damage? Because nothing is cleansed?

I’m just solo leveling and I really like the dual pistols…the tool kit also looks fun.
So I’m looking for a solo PvE build that uses dual pistols (or tool kit).

Also, what is pdv and EG?

pdv=poison dart volley.
pistol 1 scales poorly with both direct and cond damage.
with coated bullets it can scale well with direct damage due to double and triple hitting
EG=elixir gun.
EG 1 has a 4s bleed. so will do more damage then pistol 1 till coated bullets.

When leveling, gear falling behind your char level happens alot.
my 24 warrior, has a 19 rifle atm.
Kits, and condition damage scales directly with level.
Direct damage scales with gear. (and level based power.)

Casia.4281:

pdv=poison dart volley.
pistol 1 scales poorly with both direct and cond damage.
with coated bullets it can scale well with direct damage due to double and triple hitting
EG=elixir gun.
EG 1 has a 4s bleed. so will do more damage then pistol 1 till coated bullets.

When leveling, gear falling behind your char level happens alot.
my 24 warrior, has a 19 rifle atm.
Kits, and condition damage scales directly with level.
Direct damage scales with gear. (and level based power.)

So…seeing as though i’m a long way from getting coated bullets and I’m going p/p…should I go condition or power? I typically regear often. I probably fully regear every 5 levels at least.

I’ve been messing around on my now lvl 27 engineer…and I’ve gotten roughly equivalent gear for power and for condition damage. (One is full ravaging and another is full strong)
I also reset my traits so it wasn’t swayed one way or another.

And just looking at the abilities themselves, due to poison dart volley and blowtorch hitting numerous times (blowtorch when close range) the damage came out very close to the same! Power wasn’t ridiculously more, and CD wasn’t ridiculously more.

I’ve come to the conclusion that not CD and not power, but precision might be the way to go with the p/p engineer! Whether you build CD or Power, precision is always the secondary stat we need. Why not make it the primary stat and just take power, CD, or toughness whenever?

I just moved this discussion to this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Pistol-CD-Power-or-Precision/first#post1037924

it kindof already is.
you get precision and condition damage by putting points in firearms.

So you gear for power. to scale off that crit%.