Guild Wars 2

I thought my build was revolutionary, different, diverse, fresh, unique! I was the Rifle slinging sniper, that kept enemies pinned, then ran up, disabled and laden them with horrible bleeds and then swiftly leapt away to pop Elixer U and DPS them into the most horrible sense of oblivion. I could burst and sustain damage, over 3 k crit shots! My blunderbuss does close to 5 k and my knockback hits harder than a Russian hangover!

I thought myself the kitten medium ranged sniper. However, now, I compare myself to the ‘Sniper Warrior’. I like to call em chumps. Yeah, I’m a bit sore over their high damage output that makes my damage look like a breeze on a hot summer’s day. But their sheer amount of free survivability is a bit crass compared to mine. A full Zerkers warrior still has about 19 k hp, and more toughness than me base. Even if I built survivability into my build, they’d STILL have more HP than me and even MORE damage.

So, I stared for a while at my engineer’s skills, his stats, and Warrior’s rifle skills. I looked at all the gear I had, and all the savings I had to make my legendary. My friend told me the Legendary rifle The Predator I was after was for warriors alone, seeing as they could build like a ‘real’ sniper. With tons of free survivability to boot, and more utility than I could dream.

My value to my friends felt lower than ever. Lets face it, why have me around to do dungeon runs when these new fangled Sniper warriors outclassed me in every single way? I felt more of a burden than a blessing, even with my high DPS. I felt sub par, seeing as I dropped like a sack of potatoes every time I got aggro. The warrior sniper just output more damage and had less issues taking a hit. I was a liability.

I already have a lvl 80 warrior, and he’s a nice build, tanky melee DPS, uses a rifle on the side. Never really specced him as a sniper, because hitting things in the face with a giant hammer or sword seems more a Warrior’s stick. Problem now, is my views on Warriors has changed. Now they’re just too good. Sure, they only have one elite I ever use, but that self buff Signet of rage has a low CD and is so useful.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized. Warriors are a bit overpowered. Their rifle skills are just too good, and their entire kit as a Sniper offers too much damage for their survivability. I can’t be a sniper as an Engineer like I wanted, no point, seeing as a Warrior can outplay me in every way, even if I utilize all my combos and do everything just right. Outranged, out DPSed, and out-Tanked.

Sniper Builds are the way to go for ranged sustain, and this is one Engineer hoping the patch that comes soon helps make me feel like a DPS Rifleslinging Engineer has hope of offering something more to the table.

What are your thoughts?

My Loadout: Elixir B, Elixir U, Elixir S, Supply Crate 30 Marksman, 30 Toolbelt, 10 Alchemy. My traits are the common ones used for ranged sustained DPS, Rifle Scope, Rifle Damage, and Rifle cooldown traits. Elixir cooldown for 20%.

Full Berserkers gear, with 99% crit damage thanks to Runes of divinity.

Two things:

- Engineers are supposed to use kits to compensate for their perceived shortcomings. You’re not using any kits.

- Warriors are supposed to be a high-DPS, high survivability class. Engineers are supposed to be a high flexibility class with more than two or three strengths.

Ploppy, engineers have more CC then warriors too :p

Also, rifle scope trait doesn’t work haven’t heard of a fix, so i presume it is still bugged

Ploppy.2917:

Two things:

- Engineers are supposed to use kits to compensate for their perceived shortcomings. You’re not using any kits.

- Warriors are supposed to be a high-DPS, high survivability class. Engineers are supposed to be a high flexibility class with more than two or three strengths.

Engineer do missing long ranged single targeting DPS ability~Grenade was good for stationary target only~All the sudden, a heavy armor class can easily do tons of damage while a medium armor class need to go into the hot zone in order to get a match? I’m not buying it~

Ploppy.2917:

Two things:

- Engineers are supposed to use kits to compensate for their perceived shortcomings. You’re not using any kits.

- Warriors are supposed to be a high-DPS, high survivability class.Engineers are supposed to be a high flexibility class with more than two or three strengths.

This is the problem here. Warriors have no downside. They got the highest dps and a very high survivability. Why roll anything else other than a warrior? Anet needs to balance em with either high dps build with low survivability or vis versa, not both.

This is why I’ve rolled a Charr Warrior. It’s the closest to the Engineer Sniper I always wanted to be. The Charr racial skills bring some of the Engineeriness to the Warrior profession.

I’m a casual, I don’t even have one level 80 yet. I sure hope if ANet is going to change things dramatically, they do so soon. Cause I don’t want to level a Warrior to 80 and find out Rifle and Longbow have been nerfed into the ground.

Use Kits? But My dearest Ploppy, the kits don’t scale with my stats, and I crunched the numbers. My auto attacks crank out 2-3 k a pop. My flame thrower has a max out of 3-4k at the end of it’s auto attack animation. An animation attack that takes 3 seconds but adds burning. I have 360 cond damage. It ain’t compensating.

I pump out more damage when I auto attack, and m kits offer me nothing my rifle doesn’t do better. Knockback, net, jump! Sexy. I just need a rifle sniping ability and I’m beautiful.

Warriors have no downside, too much utility, on top of having a weapon switch. Oh, that guy got in my face? I’ll switch to mace and warhorn block, interrupt, speed away, cleanse. Or GS and Whirlwind away! Oh, lets couple that with my 19 k Base HP and bas armor! No engie can match the survivability AND DPS of a warrior Sniper

If a thief was the sniper, and pumped out that damage, everyone would cry nerf now. But since it’s a warrior, it’s fine? Or is the kitten survivability and DPS perfectly balanced?

Warriors get the best of both worlds? The best dps, survivability, and highest range on one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game? Kill shot can crit for well over 20 k.

I need to find some way to alter my build to compensate. Some way to make myself more damage or somehow corporate more survivability without sacrificing all my damage…

I take it this is from a purely pve perspective?

Pyrial.2917:

I take it this is from a purely pve perspective?

No, PvP as well as PvE.

The Warrior Sniper Versus Engineer Sniper is peculiar on both sides of this fence.

I think the problem is a bit from column A and a bit from column B.

Yeah, Warriors got a ton of baseline survivability. They are simply build to last. Highest baseline HP (along with Necro) and highest baseline defense (along with Guardian). Note how Warrior gets to be the best at both. Even if they go full glass cannon they will baseline have more health and more armor then your engineer. Who has to spend stats on just breaking even. Stats that are then not spend on getting the same kind of damage.

Which is impossible anyway because even if you recklessly abandoned your toughness and vitality you would still have less damage. Especially ranged.
But this is an issue with the Engineer, because Warrior is by no means the only professions that blows Engineer clear out of the water when it comes to (ranged) damage.
Infact there is nothing the Engineer does that another profession couldnt do just as well, if not better. And one has to recognize how silly it is for one of the more squishier professions to essentially have to get into the thick of the fight in order to reach their full potential every time.

So thats it. Warriors get a little to much love with the best of both worlds. And Engineers dont get enough love by always being second to someone else in whatever they do, and even carry the title of worst-at for a few things.
But with so many bugs and broken skills/traits its hard to tell how the Engineer is meant to perform. So we should wait and see how it turns out when stuff finally gets fixed. Altough the terrible ranged-issue wouldnt be resolved by bugfixes alone.

GoneBatty.9048:

Pyrial.2917:

I take it this is from a purely pve perspective?

No, PvP as well as PvE.

The Warrior Sniper Versus Engineer Sniper is peculiar on both sides of this fence.

I guess I’m just not seeing it on the pvp side of things.

The engineer is what it is. I doubt you will see big changes with the class.

Pyrial.2917:

GoneBatty.9048:

Pyrial.2917:

I take it this is from a purely pve perspective?

No, PvP as well as PvE.

The Warrior Sniper Versus Engineer Sniper is peculiar on both sides of this fence.

I guess I’m just not seeing it on the pvp side of things.

You won’t see to many warrior rifle builds in spvp/tpvp but they do show up and kill shot hitting for up to 20k+ dmg in 1 shot is brutal (i’ve seen 24k+ on light armor glass). In WvW you’ll see a lot of sniper warriors though and their attacks pierce including kill shot so it’s a bit more common there than t/spvp. With that said good ones in t/spvp do great as well it’s just not as popular as the easier to play faceroll builds.

Engineers don’t make good sniper setups especially since their rifle skills are more midrange. However engineers still have the highest sustained potential dmg in the game but it’s very gimmicky and given the fact that kits scale poorly the better the gear that comes out the further it’ll all fall behind especially with the new ascended geared coming out unless some engineer scaling issues are addressed in that patch too.
Kits “do receive stats” but not from “weapons or sigils” even still what they do receive from base stats is poor from a scaling point of view.

With all that said engineer still has a lot to offer imho and can still be tanky with good damage(for now) i realize that there is no holy trinity or class specific rolls “intended” for the game but engineers definitely fit the roll of flexible utility+dmg more so than most other classes.

There are definitely some issues and I’m sure they will be addressed at some point but engineer is definitely not the “sniper” class if that’s what you want i wish engineers were as it feels very out of place on a heavy armor warrior but that’s just how it is. .

GoneBatty.9048:

Use Kits? But My dearest Ploppy, the kits don’t scale with my stats, and I crunched the numbers.

Huh? To my knowledge, kits scale with your stats, just not your weapons’.

I also fail to see the issue here. You want to play a sniper (whatever than means), and your conclusion, after crunching numbers, is that the Warrior outshines the Engineer for this purpose.

So, why are you still playing your Engineer then? Why aren’t you rebuilding your Warrior to be a sniper? There must be something tying you down to the Engineer, otherwise you’d have already gone Warrior and been a happy camper.

Get it? Sniper… camper… blah, dead crowd is dead.

Anyway, I’m not saying Warriors and Engineers are working as intended (what is in this game?), I’m just asking what’s keeping you here when it’s clearly much better over there.

change build to pistol/pistol condition and you will MURDER the warrior so hard he wont use his character for a month

Mazra.1625:

GoneBatty.9048:

Use Kits? But My dearest Ploppy, the kits don’t scale with my stats, and I crunched the numbers.

Huh? To my knowledge, kits scale with your stats, just not your weapons’.

I also fail to see the issue here. You want to play a sniper (whatever than means), and your conclusion, after crunching numbers, is that the Warrior outshines the Engineer for this purpose.

So, why are you still playing your Engineer then? Why aren’t you rebuilding your Warrior to be a sniper? There must be something tying you down to the Engineer, otherwise you’d have already gone Warrior and been a happy camper.

Get it? Sniper… camper… blah, dead crowd is dead.

Anyway, I’m not saying Warriors and Engineers are working as intended (what is in this game?), I’m just asking what’s keeping you here when it’s clearly much better over there.

Because it doesn’t make sense. Why make the tankiest class in the game ALSO have the potential to be the highest ranged DPS in the game while still having more survivability base? It isn’t fair. I like fair, and that’s not fair.

It isn’t fair to the opponents I’d face on the battlefield, and the badges of honor would be sullied. It feels too good, like an over powered class, or worse, it feels borderline exploitative.

When I get a kill on my engineer at Range, I know I earned it. Because I’m not always down range. sometimes, I rush in and do my combo. I’m always in danger and at mercy of my opponent if I’m not careful. Like a /real/ sniper, I’m vulnerable if singled out.

The warrior just doesn’t fit. It feels unsportsmanlike to retool my level 80 warrior into a sniper, when Engineers are the attuned technology using class. Or hell, the thief! I wouldn’t complain if the thief had the Warrior’s rifle skills and did this! It’d at least make SENSE.

I don’t like it because it feels wrong. It just feels…Almost like cheating.

GoneBatty.9048:

Because it doesn’t make sense.

I agree with you it doesn’t to me either. However that is just how it is they designed it that way it has been that way since the beta builds and will probably continue to be like that it’s a matter of accepting it.

Kill shot is a bit insane for 100% glass builds I honestly would not be surprised if it gets nerfed at some point. To be an effective rifle warrior going 100% glass is really your only choice and the utility skills and lack of cc that setup has makes you very dead if anything jumps you before you jump them even in pve engineers still have the advantage.

Despite the heavier armor / base hp comparatively to a warrior a engineer has more tools at it’s disposal for survival even with glass grenadier setups. Micromanaging trait swaps and changing kit utilities between fights to achieve this can be annoying at times but thats part of being an engineer imho.

GoneBatty.9048:

Because it doesn’t make sense. Why make the tankiest class in the game ALSO have the potential to be the highest ranged DPS in the game while still having more survivability base? It isn’t fair. I like fair, and that’s not fair.

The Warrior does more damage with his rifle because he lacks the utility of the Engineer. He can’t plop down a turret, or resurrect himself with an elixir, or switch between four weapon sets. If the Engineer, with a rifle, could compete with a Warrior, also with a rifle, in damage, the Engineer would win every time because of utility.

You’re trying to play your Engineer like a Warrior and you find it lacking. I don’t want to say that you’re “doing it wrong”, but you should perhaps look at what the Engineer can do that the Warrior can’t do, instead of just the other way around.

I’m guessing the first poster doesn’t pvp much, it’s actually VERY rare to find a situation where you could just stand there and shoot from the distance without the fear of getting:

-pulled/bashed off the cliff
-getting immobilized/crippled to be engaged in melee pretty fast (or at least a 600 range which isn’t optimal for ranged damage, you want to stay safe)
-getting interrupted (here I’m mostly saying the rifle burst skill, which is bugged anyway, as it stacks the bonus damage when hitting multiple targets with the piercing effect)

Not to mention the fact that there aren’t exactly many areas where you can get advantage of the terrain to attack from 1k500 range, and still the previously mentioned problems could happen (exept wvw, but in those situations you might want to use a siege weapon anyway).

SO I’m guessing, the guy plays just the dungeons or wvw yet complains about unbalance where the balance doesn’t actually exist, either is as meaningful as pvp.

yea, you’re right about wvw if you say we don’t have many options, but you’re still meant to stand out WAY more in pve than warriors imo, just the combo fields make your support as effective (if not more) as a warrior’s DPS, we engineers have way more control on our opponent movements than warriors, and whenever we end up at boss we could just stay away and throw a neverending avalanche of grenades which cripple (not the status but the general result from the various conditions, complimented by the 30% increased duration from traits) AND damage the boss.

Disastro.4086:

Pyrial.2917:

GoneBatty.9048:

Pyrial.2917:

I take it this is from a purely pve perspective?

No, PvP as well as PvE.

The Warrior Sniper Versus Engineer Sniper is peculiar on both sides of this fence.

I guess I’m just not seeing it on the pvp side of things.

You won’t see to many warrior rifle builds in spvp/tpvp but they do show up and kill shot hitting for up to 20k+ dmg in 1 shot is brutal (i’ve seen 24k+ on light armor glass). In WvW you’ll see a lot of sniper warriors though and their attacks pierce including kill shot so it’s a bit more common there than t/spvp. With that said good ones in t/spvp do great as well it’s just not as popular as the easier to play faceroll builds.

Engineers don’t make good sniper setups especially since their rifle skills are more midrange. However engineers still have the highest sustained potential dmg in the game but it’s very gimmicky and given the fact that kits scale poorly the better the gear that comes out the further it’ll all fall behind especially with the new ascended geared coming out unless some engineer scaling issues are addressed in that patch too.
Kits “do receive stats” but not from “weapons or sigils” even still what they do receive from base stats is poor from a scaling point of view.

With all that said engineer still has a lot to offer imho and can still be tanky with good damage(for now) i realize that there is no holy trinity or class specific rolls “intended” for the game but engineers definitely fit the roll of flexible utility+dmg more so than most other classes.

There are definitely some issues and I’m sure they will be addressed at some point but engineer is definitely not the “sniper” class if that’s what you want i wish engineers were as it feels very out of place on a heavy armor warrior but that’s just how it is. .

What I meant to say was that I don’t see this disparity on the pvp side of things comparing a rifle warrior and a rifle engineer. They are definitely different given the range differential, but the burst potential is there for both (although more involved for the engineer), yet you have more options for control as an engineer.

I’d echo what Mazra said. Sounds like OP is trying to play engineer like a warrior. Ignoring wht a engineer has in favor of only using and wanting what a warrior has should tell you that you aren’t an engineer. You’re a warrior. Limiting yourself to a warrior with medium armor is supposed to put you at a disadvantage.

Pyrial.2917:

What I meant to say was that I don’t see this disparity on the pvp side of things comparing a rifle warrior and a rifle engineer. They are definitely different given the range differential, but the burst potential is there for both (although more involved for the engineer), yet you have more options for control as an engineer.

If you say it that way yes I agree. Engineers have far more survivability than the OP gives them credit for that extra HP and Armor really means next to nothing vs. the utility at the engineers disposal.

I can’t agree 100% on the burst potential though killshot can do 14-24k+(depending on gear and armor of target) on a 10s cooldown from 1500 range as long as you’re in a situation that lets you maintain constant adrenaline levels. To achieve anything similar it would require the combination of jump shot in melee range+grenade barrage and maybe a blunderbuss if they’re dumb enough to still be in range and with the traits for lightning on toolbet skill use and you’re looking at longer cooldowns and higher risk potential. Not that it bothers me mind you the warrior has to give up A LOT to be able to achieve that and killshot is easily avoided if you see the war taking aim and at least on the higher end pve mobs will evade it too.

?!?!?!
FIRSTLY the holy trinity was replaced with damage/control/support, Each proffession has its STRENGTHS and WEAKNESSES – if they were the same we wouldnt have different proffessions- so to even have a debate that a warrior can out gun me (they can even outgun a ranger using a bow) is just foolhardy- OF COURSE a warrior should be the best at damage – but can they support as well as an engi? NO THEY CANT.
I’m just getting fed up of people comparing us to other proffessions (damage output mostly) – IF you want to see big numbers then go play a warrior or thief – Thats what those proffessions are for but if you want to support then engi is the best class for that.
For group events if you buff and heal allies then you will get (not much less than) the same money/karma as someone whos done high direct damage
How many fields can a warrior put down? Theres your answer

Rfreak.6591:

I’m guessing the first poster doesn’t pvp much, it’s actually VERY rare to find a situation where you could just stand there and shoot from the distance without the fear of getting:

-pulled/bashed off the cliff
-getting immobilized/crippled to be engaged in melee pretty fast
-getting interrupted (here I’m mostly saying the burst skill, which is bugged anyway, as it stacks the bonus damage when hitting multiple targets with the piercing effect)

Not to mention the fact that there aren’t exactly many areas where you can get advantage of the terrain to attack from 1k500 range, and still the previously mentioned problems could happen.

SO I’m guessing, the guy plays just the dungeons or wvw yet complains about unbalance where the balance doesn’t actually exist, either is as meaningful as pvp.

I do PvP often, in WvW. I have run into a few Rifle warriors, though scaring them off was as easy as hitting them a few times while they murdered someone else. Generally speaking, engaging one isn’t my problem. I’ll handle myself quite well. It’s outlasting them in battle. They can one-shot me, and fortunately I can dodge at least three times in a row. Dealing with them isn’t the issue at all.

There are tons of areas to take advantage of that range! And from the edge of a keep, you can out range quite a few opponents. Plenty of vantage points abound, no idea why there wouldn’t be in open WvW or in one of the PvP maps.

I’ve been pinned down and pinned down opponents from a keep’s wall and maintained enough foresight to not expose myself unless I was taking a shot at a vulnerable target. I know what I’m doing. I understand what utility I can bring, and tying up an opponent with net shot can help my comrades. And I throw my toolbelt elixirs and all that shiny stuff.

I never wanted to play my engineer as a warrior. I created this build I use now without knowledge warriors could outclass me so easily in what I intended to do. I have trouble wrapping my head around /HOW/ I can compensate for the lack of survivability and damage some other way. Because I’m never beating the warrior in either of those.

I do admit, there are fewer places to take advantage of that range in sPvP, but in WvW that range is king. And AoE is it’s nasty, horrible queen. And Mesmer glamour is it’s scary midwife…

I need to do more research, but the more I look into it, and the more I read the warrior forum, the more I want to strangle them…Gently. They complain about the warrior being underpowered, HB being hard to land…The warrior is a bit overpowered in my opinion. I play one too. Nice damage while still being tanky. I use a GS. Fun times.

At least Warrior rifle will never have as useful a knockback as Engineers! Other than the fact they have rifle butt, knockback on a 15 sec cooldown. It’s kinda melee range. And a net. The net is lovely. Do you know how easy it is to shoot a tangled target? Blunderbuss is…Well, I don’t care for that one, but it’s like a shotgun. Engineer control can be nice. But that’s all mid range.

I suppose an engineer isn’t a sniper, more like a ‘Pointman’ given the fact he uses a rifle like a shotgun.

I agree @Pyrial.2917

I wish other classes had some more enemy control as necros/guardians/engi already do (maybe the necro needs a 0.3s-0.5s fear duration buff though), exept for mesmers which are already… well, mesmers.

Warrior got a couple skills but they are kinda never as effective as AoE-blowout skills (warriors got just 1 with kinda long CD, stuck in the utility slot), so yea.

I guess blowback skills are kinda weird on their “recover” times, most seem too fast to me, and considering they don’t have cone range (most blowback skills at least) are kinda hard to hit in crowded situations too.

BurnWeed.5902:

?!?!?!
FIRSTLY the holy trinity was replaced with damage/control/support, Each proffession has its STRENGTHS and WEAKNESSES – if they were the same we wouldnt have different proffessions- so to even have a debate that a warrior can out gun me (they can even outgun a ranger using a bow) is just foolhardy- OF COURSE a warrior should be the best at damage – but can they support as well as an engi? NO THEY CANT.
I’m just getting fed up of people comparing us to other proffessions (damage output mostly) – IF you want to see big numbers then go play a warrior or thief – Thats what those proffessions are for but if you want to support then engi is the best class for that.
For group events if you buff and heal allies then you will get (not much less than) the same money/karma as someone whos done high direct damage

I have several lvl 80s. I find the thief fun. Cond Leach thief, healing out the wazoo. I lay down conditions well and can survive better than most. He’s not glass canon at all. I also have a warrior, as I’ve mentioned. Melee is alot of fun, and I’ve tinkered with the rifle skills. They feel smooth and responsive. The damage output is pretty high even though I’m not even traited for it.

As it stands, my engineer already out performs a ranger in DPS raw power, and I outperform on self heals to keep myself alive. The base hp from warriors is nice, but it doesn’t match what I can do with my turret, nor the support it gives my allies with regen.

I guess I was just aggravated by warriors out performing me in everything else so easily. It’s like being second best at something you thought you were top dog at. And sniper just felt right for the medium armored class. Shame I have to tip my hat to a heavy armored sniper. I guess they’re more like an artillery canon.

Anyway, instead of comparing raw damage, lets put it on the table. The pros and cons of each when going ranged, and what each brings to the table. Sure, damage can’t be touched, but I’m sure there are other ways we engineer snipers can set ourselves apart. At least my DPs isn’t as poor as a rangers…And the turrets are better company too.

I still don’t like the feel of the kits. Flamethrower was nice, but it doesn’t offer any support or utility other than a blind. Grenades are…Plain and I prefer firing the rifle anyway. So elixirs usually fit the bill, and their Toolbelt skills allow support.

Having almost 80 engineer, also done some PvP I think, as some already said here, you picked wrong class for role you want to play now. Engineer can burst damage with rifle in PvP, if they get close you blow them away etc. I use gadgets for survability, mine and ram, works fine. Ofc I die if dps warrior or thief comes at me, I’m low survability build focused on dmg.

In PvE I dont find this build so cool, on ranged characters you can’t use rifle skills much unless you jump at him and go close range for a bit which sometimes means, you taunt other mobs. Engineer is worse sniper than warrior, I agree but I think it should be like that. You can do much more at the same time. Engineer is that unique class for me I like in every MMO, its just different. Most classes in here can do one/two roles realy well. With engineer? You can do cc, heal and conditions, or dmg, aoe and conditions + buffs etc. Engineer is almost never master of one style at any given time.

But I wouldn’t mind to see maybe one more kit for engineers pure ranged dmg. Its not cool to jump on boss with rifle in dungeon while having dps build, even that couple seconds till you “rifle” yourself away from him could mean dead.

And therin lies the beauty of engineer. peoples playstyle can vary- what one person finds bad another person can find useful. There is so much diversity within the engineer community and i dont see it (as much) with the other proffessions. – with them it seems to be x-y-z skill/trait setups (dislike the term build) with 1-2-3 button presses for usage
it’s just there’s an increasing amount of posts that go " engineers dont do as much damage as [insert proff here]" and when they realise that they think/say that engi is rubbish which gives us a bad press and i suffer from /rage over that as (i believe) we are the most awesome proffession there is . . . But then everyones playstyle/expectations and fun enjoyment are different

Running 30/30/0/0/10 with Rifle-Med Kit, Grenade Kit, Rocket Boots, Flamethrower, and Supply Crate. There’s some built in survivability with very good burst and great control. You can use Runes of the Adventurer and gain an addtional dodge every 10 seconds while giving up a little crit and picking up a little more power. The runes alone in that build add a ton of diversity to a high damage build.

I tend to agree with you GoneBatty. A lot of these conversations, oddly enough, devolve into pride issues vs. honest assessment. The same engineers that complain in one thread will defend their class in another. No different than any other game when balance is on the table I suppose.

Bottom line for me is the issue of builds. If you play a support engineer, don’t expect to do damage on par with a warrior built to do damage. Expect to be on par with the damage of a warrior built to do support. But, if you choose to play a rifle sniper or some other damage oriented build your damage should be top notch in line with other damage builds of other classes. The reason for this is because every class has it’s support, damage, tanky or healy builds. The problem comes in when some classes damage/support/heal/tank builds end up being vastly superior to that of others.

I don’t mind if thief ends up being a bit higher than everyone else in damage. I don’t mind if the warrior and guardian are a bit better tanks. Point being, I just want to see good balance. I think we are very close to this goal. But I also think that there are a couple stand out classes that are getting the lion’s share currently.

Ploppy.2917:

Two things:

- Engineers are supposed to use kits to compensate for their perceived shortcomings. You’re not using any kits.

- Warriors are supposed to be a high-DPS, high survivability class. Engineers are supposed to be a high flexibility class with more than two or three strengths.

Engis aren’t using kits because they are:

A: broken in their explosion radius is not correct for the weapon type, the targeting and continuous button pushing isn’t consistent with the other weapons, try dodging and straffing while pointing where you want the grenades to land. yeah.

B: cond/heal has been so nerfed that we’re actually being pigeonholed into a single pistol/rifle pow/pre/%damage cookie cutter build insteado f having said flexibility.

C: has serius targeting bugs involved with abilities that should really be an AOE effect but suddenly stop hitting the enemy despite the animation of the engineer turning to catch the enemy as well as the targeting being limited to 3 enemies on the FT kit.

So yeah there’s some big issues that we hope they will fix to bring back the flexibility to the profession.

I tried many times to bring some kit in my combo but then i gave up..

None of these kits can do dmg close to my auto attack rifle zzzzzzz

Punny.9210:

I tried many times to bring some kit in my combo but then i gave up..

None of these kits can do dmg close to my auto attack rifle zzzzzzz

Not liking grenade kit and flame thrower as a compliment to the rifle?

grenade is good but i have a hard time to use in 1 on 1

As someone who mained rifle warrior and then switched and now mains rifle engineer, I can say the two are worlds apart.

As a rifle warrior most of your damage is really behind two skills, volley, and kill shot. The auto attack is fair, but on the weak side, the utility the rifle brings for a warrior is good, and while you can be far more tanky on paper, warriors have less prolonged survivability unless specifically built to be able to bridge heals. I found that you needed to really be a lighting bruiser for the build to work because in the long game you tend to not having the healing output to sustain against sturdy targets in pvp.

Rifle engineer is a whole different basket of cogs. Hipshot hits like a truck for a ranged attack. As in, it does melee grade damage at a distance. The trade off is all other damage compression is mid range for an engineer. On the other hand, you can sit on someone with just hipshot and they’ll die from how much pressure it is. While it doesn’t kill as fast as a warrior’s rifle, the engineer has more consistency and better damage across the board. Everything you have that does damage, hits really hard and thus scales well. The control of the engineer rifle, as well as its dynamic mobility lend alot of survivability. Jump shot isn’t just heavy damage but a leap you can use to avoid attacks, move across odd terrain, or change targets. Overcharged shot puts people were you want them, gives you breathing room, lets you get your bearings, and sets up people for more damage, not to mention its an interrupt that lets you deny key skills. Net shot lets you decide what range you fight at.

In a 1v1 between a rifle warrior and an engineer, the engineer has a major advantage because of hipshot’s high damage. Since a warrior will need to land volleys to surpass the damage the engineer puts out with just an auto attack, an engineer can just evade volley and come out ahead. This forces most people to either come into melee you, were you only get stronger thanks to blunderbuss and the rest of your bar, or leave because they will die.

A warrior hits you really hard occasionally at a distance, an engineer will hit you hard all the time.

If you want a true sniper experience warrior is the way to go. Since killshot is the snipe skill. Keep in mind you sacrifice sustained damage for burst potential. Rifle engineer is more of a ‘heavy gunner’ if you want to just pound on targets and make them hurt, engineer is the way to go. Both have their merits and are both enjoyable for various reasons.

I still haven’t done dungeons yet as I’m playing my way to map completion first – slowly though! I have done a lot of hot join sPvP and I really can’t see how a warrior hs better survivability than an engineer. I’ve played zerker glass cannon on both warrior and engineer with rifles and warriors will simply die much quicker. Passive defense is weak in this game. You’ll have to actively dodge, remove conditions, block and invul to reduce meaningful damage. I haven’t been able to make elixir glass cannon builds anywhere near as well as static discharge ones. I use rifle turret, grenades and tool kit. The burst is huge from all the toolbelt skills and it’s much easier to land than kill shot. I also get access to block, chill, blind, knock back, cripple, permanent swiftness, either vigor or 50% higher regeneration depending on build.

I find kit builds better for pvp than all elixir builds and rifle warriors.

Ploppy.2917:

- Warriors are supposed to be a high-DPS, high survivability class. Engineers are supposed to be a high flexibility class with more than two or three strengths.

Too bad the current game design really only favors survivability and DPS. Support and control are basically not powerful enough, and not needed anyway. Raw DPS with just enough survivability to not die is all anyone ever needs to build (or bunker build with max survivability at the expense of everything else I guess)

So engineer can be flexable but who cares, when you admit right there he can’t bend in either of the two ways that would make him actually useful.

The short version is that the Warrior Sniper actually plays like a sniper, including the disadvantages. As long as you’re being left alone you can smoke even heavy armoured people within seconds, but if someone gets in your face, you’ve got a big problem on your hands.

The current s/tPvP conquest mode and maps don’t really cater to the sniper playstyle though and that’s why hardly anyone plays them there. WvW is a different story, you can make a lot of “odd” builds work that would be completely useless in tPvP.

Numot.3965:

As someone who mained rifle warrior and then switched and now mains rifle engineer, I can say the two are worlds apart.

As a rifle warrior most of your damage is really behind two skills, volley, and kill shot. The auto attack is fair, but on the weak side, the utility the rifle brings for a warrior is good, and while you can be far more tanky on paper, warriors have less prolonged survivability unless specifically built to be able to bridge heals. I found that you needed to really be a lighting bruiser for the build to work because in the long game you tend to not having the healing output to sustain against sturdy targets in pvp.

Rifle engineer is a whole different basket of cogs. Hipshot hits like a truck for a ranged attack. As in, it does melee grade damage at a distance. The trade off is all other damage compression is mid range for an engineer. On the other hand, you can sit on someone with just hipshot and they’ll die from how much pressure it is. While it doesn’t kill as fast as a warrior’s rifle, the engineer has more consistency and better damage across the board. Everything you have that does damage, hits really hard and thus scales well. The control of the engineer rifle, as well as its dynamic mobility lend alot of survivability. Jump shot isn’t just heavy damage but a leap you can use to avoid attacks, move across odd terrain, or change targets. Overcharged shot puts people were you want them, gives you breathing room, lets you get your bearings, and sets up people for more damage, not to mention its an interrupt that lets you deny key skills. Net shot lets you decide what range you fight at.

In a 1v1 between a rifle warrior and an engineer, the engineer has a major advantage because of hipshot’s high damage. Since a warrior will need to land volleys to surpass the damage the engineer puts out with just an auto attack, an engineer can just evade volley and come out ahead. This forces most people to either come into melee you, were you only get stronger thanks to blunderbuss and the rest of your bar, or leave because they will die.

A warrior hits you really hard occasionally at a distance, an engineer will hit you hard all the time.

If you want a true sniper experience warrior is the way to go. Since killshot is the snipe skill. Keep in mind you sacrifice sustained damage for burst potential. Rifle engineer is more of a ‘heavy gunner’ if you want to just pound on targets and make them hurt, engineer is the way to go. Both have their merits and are both enjoyable for various reasons.

My issue is that as far as dungeons and WvW are concerned, I felt less useful than a Warrior insta killing 3-4 people every ten odd seconds. (Sometimes. Pulling that off requires lining up targets.) I can KILL these monsters pretty fast, and my auto attacks hit like a raging bull. I know my sustain is better, but the warrior’s cooldowns for volley and the fact they can crank out kill shot every eight seconds means an insta kill blowout every time they get full Adrenaline.

Removing opponents from the battlefield is important, moreso than support. If you can kill opponents swiftly and remove them from play, you just mitigated damage they could have caused to others. I may be flexible, and against one of these rifle sniping warriors, I may more than likely come out on top (3 K crit auto attacks hurt) Their crit auto attacks still hit in the realm of 2 k anyway, and usually 1 k base damage if not a crit. That’s still quite a bit. Their sustain is almost, if not reaching engineer’s sustain in some cases. Lets not forget ‘Endure Pain’ and ‘Signet of Precision’ are commonly on their toolbar along with ‘Frenzy’ and we have a loadout of 5 sec invulnerability with a spike in adrenaline with a sped up animation allowing a 1.9 second kill shot for 20 k +.

Their play-styles are different, sure, and the engineer has more control. But the control pales in comparison in the raw damage they still possess. I think Warrior Snipers are a bit…Too powerful in WvW and Dungeons where I spend a majority of my time. That’s the issue, I don’t feel as powerful and my extra gimmicks seem to do little to make up for it(Mostly in dungeons and sometimes in WvW I feel this).

Top that with people telling me that the legendary rifle ‘’The Predator’’ is obviously meant for warriors given it’s appearance as a Sniper Rifle and how Warriors can actually be proper snipers, and I’m a bit miffed. So they get all the cool greatswords and now my friends are telling me working to get ‘The Predator’ for my engie is a waste. That’s just disheartening.

Warriors got too much of the love-stick if that’s the case.

The more I think about my Engineer with his rifle, the more I sigh softly and say; ‘’Just give me a gattling gun already.’’ If the heavy armored class can be the sniper, than the medium armored class can be the gattling gun totting heavy gunner with high suppression fire.

This a joke? Warriors are the weakest class in the game. They are the class most likely to be downed first… They have terrible rifle dps and mobility compared to engineer with a rifle. They have only 1 decent rifle attack. Rest are garbage. Have yet ot verse a engineer in pvp that can last. Don’t know how people struggling with a warrior….. Learn to play engineer.

Bankaikiller.8617:

This a joke? Warriors are the weakest class in the game. They are the class most likely to be downed first… They have terrible rifle dps and mobility compared to engineer with a rifle. They have only 1 decent rifle attack. Rest are garbage. Have yet ot verse a engineer in pvp that can last. Don’t know how people struggling with a warrior….. Learn to play engineer.

…Surely you’re the one joking. Warrior rifle DPS is insane. It’s good, amazing, stupendous!

Volley, killshot…Ect. Pretty nice from what I’ve experienced.

You don’t get the point of this thread. You’re also not adding ANYTHING. The difference between Engineer and Warrior are what’s being laid bare and what they offer. Also frustrations, and build diversity discussions as well as figuring out exactly what a ‘sniper’ engineer brings that a warrior sniper cannot, and I’ve gotten tons of help here. Whether it’s fighting a warrior sniper or figuring out ways to work support into my build to help my team to make up for the lower DPS and base survivability I have. I appreciate everyone’s insightful posts.

If you don’t want to add anything, and just want to be rude, go to another thread. This thread is for building ideas, not tearing people and their classes down.

Your the one who said that warriors were over powered in the very first post. I’m stating that they aren’t. You’re also the one stating that warriors are overall more powerful then enigneers. I’m also stating that they aren’t, and that you need to learn how to play a engineer in pvp and pve. A good engineer 9 times out of ten (like me) Will be the very first one to destroy a warrior, in every way. All my gear but two pieces is power/precision/crit damage, including trinkets.

I’m running 0/20/15/30/5 and My Skill set up is rifle + Elixir H, Elixir G, elixir B, Elixir U, and elixir X.
My rifle sigil gives me AOE flame blast.
My precision tree gives me extra range and extra damage for my rifle, Toughness tree for survivability, elixir tree for self buff with +20% elixir recharge rate, and +20% elixir duration, with either elixir stacking might buff, or condition removal with cleansing formula. Build is perfect for PVE, and PVP. You can tank,single target CC, and dps, and have high survival rate. Very ez playing setup with no complaints about versing any classes, but sometimes mesmer, and thief. Maybe I should just say that “engineer” is OP Because it does good damage, and can survive!

It’s pathetic that people complain about engineer, but really don’t know how to play the class right… /end informative thread construction.

Bankaikiller.8617:

Your the one who said that warriors were over powered in the very first post. I’m stating that they aren’t. You’re also the one stating that warriors are overall more powerful then enigneers. I’m also stating that they aren’t, and that you need to learn how to play a engineer in pvp and pve. A good engineer 9 times out of ten (like me) Will be the very first one to destroy a warrior, in every way. All my gear but two pieces is power/precision/crit damage, including trinkets.

I’m running 0/20/15/30/5 and My Skill set up is rifle + Elixir H, Elixir G, elixir B, Elixir U, and elixir X.
My rifle sigil gives me AOE flame blast.
My precision tree gives me extra range and extra damage for my rifle, Toughness tree for survivability, elixir tree for self buff with +20% elixir recharge rate, and +20% elixir duration, with either elixir stacking might buff, or condition removal with cleansing formula. Build is perfect for PVE, and PVP. You can tank,single target CC, and dps, and have high survival rate. Very ez playing setup with no complaints about versing any classes, but sometimes mesmer, and thief. Maybe I should just say that “engineer” is OP Because it does good damage, and can survive!

It’s pathetic that people complain about engineer, but really don’t know how to play the class right… /end informative thread construction.

’’I’m good and you’re bad.‘’ Oh so cute and informative! I know how to play my engineer—I’m pretty good with it. I’ve mentioned that I can take on Warrior Snipers as long as I’m careful. I’m just stating Warrior Snipers got too much love with the free survivability along with their massive burst.

You pat yourself on the back while assuming things about /me/, That’s rude. Thankyou for sharing your build and playstyle, but it’s layered between rudeness and assumptions. I don’t appreciate that. Noone appreciates that.

I’ve learned the differences between the two in this thread and what the engineer can offer. Warriors are pretty kitten powerful. I don’t understand anyone considering them weak. I have one, lvl 80! And I never have problems murdering people with him.

‘’/end-blah blah’‘—Shutup. It doesn’t end with you. You’re not some godsend. You’re annoying. You’re the bad aftertaste I’ve been forced to stomach after a great, informative thread.

I still think the ranged static shock engi is pretty good.

You can do a firearm / alchemy / tools build and use rifle – medkit – tool kit – PBR – utility goggles and supply crate.

If you open the fight at range you can either net shot them or use net shot as bait and drop supply crate and then use throw wrench, PBR, and the UG tool belt as you close in. the net turret will lock them down for a few additional seconds typically letting you get another net shot off. When you get in range and they try for a heal you either overcharge or PBR to knock them and then do a jumpshot + blunderbuss.

If they fear you ((most warriors I meet always seem to have fear me slotted)) you can break it with goggles.

I run it full Valkyrie gear. Fury from goggles / medkit gives me a lot of crit in conjunction with precision from traits. A 24k hp pool with perma swiftness / vigor will do the rest.

The only ones that I have a lot of problems with are those that run something like mace / shield in offhand. If they use fear me + bola’s or bull’s rush and then stun me with the mace / shield it can get nasty since I only have 1 stun break.

But most rifle warriors seem to go real glasscannon with berzerker gear so they are typically not that hard to burst down.

It’s the more tanky ones that only use rifle to take pop shots as they wait for you to get into range that I worry about.

That being said I really do like feel of the ranged static shock engi. It’s a fun dynamic for me and I enjoy playing it immensely.

I’ve gone shortbow ranger, and rifle warrior, and they both have better damage than this build, but I do not find them as enjoyable to play and the dynamic is different.

For example if you go pure rifle on the warrior you really do not want people close to you with kill shot or volley, since it is very easy to interrupt those abilities with CC, or at least that’s my experience. So you don’t really charge in but kite back, or go for people that are distracted with other fights.

It’s not perfect. I still think hipshot on rifle could use a buff to bring it closer to the kit 1 skills, maybe via a new 30 point trait. But that’s a small thing.

I am gonna try using this build with P/S and see how it goes. I think that might work better when I run into thieves and mesmers. Right now good thieves and mesmers are tricky with this build. Especially the D/D spamming thieves. The projectile reflects really hurt them, and 6-7 stacks of confusion from pistol + tool kit help as well.

But that kind of gets away from rifle engi.

You know, it might make more sense and be better balanced if warrior and engineer rifle range was reversed.

More sense because accuracy over distance is precisely what you’d expect the mechanical expert’s advantage to be… and having to be slightly closer to the enemy isn’t going to exactly kill the warrior.

Well keep in mind that engi rifle came first in development apparently, and it was thematically more of a blunderbuss type deal than a rifle.

Think really early firearms. A kind of Elmer Fud concept. “I’mma gonna sneak up on that rascally rabbit and then get ’em real close up!” blam blam blam!

Over the course of development things change a great deal, and items done first on one profession might not be done the same way on another.

My general feeling is they liked the way engineer rifle worked out, but wanted to give warrior’s rifle in a different way, and they ended up as being opposing play-styles.

If you think of engi rifle as a rifle it feels weird and wrong, but if you think of it as a blunderbuss, that we desperately pack with everything from bits of net to nails and bolts it feels right at home.

It’s not so much of a rifle as a mini cannon!

If you can get past the naming debacle I think it’s fine.

Please, people, stop thinking this way. This is what people hate about MMO persistent development…

Don’t nerf warrior; buff engineer. Everyone agrees that Engineer needs more usefulness in WvW and dungeons, at the least.

If a rifle/GS warrior were to duel a P/S (+random kit) engineer, the warrior would get his kitten kicked, just saying.

Yeah, a lot of people are wondering why the Engineer rifle is so… Unusual. I think of it in military terms. Warriors pick up a sniper rifle, train themselves in it’s use for optimum headshot goodness. But the Engineer picked up a carbine, a short rifle made for close engagements. They can take a long-range approach, but it’s not where the carbine performs best.

The Warrior says “I like guns!” Makes the me gusta face, and scores a headshot. Then when the heat comes to them, they go all “kitten#8221; and have to pull out their puny toothpick swords and whatnot.

The Engineer thought ahead, and knew that most engagements are going to happen at a smaller range, in cramped quarters, or other situations where the sniper is next to useless. So the Engineer gets on point, brings out the carbine, and darn near makes the bullet into a melee weapon. And when that time comes when a sniper can do work, they’re not at all out of the action. Especially if they put scopes on the grenades they’re keeping in their pockets for just such an occasion.

TL:DR? – Engineer Rifle just isn’t a classic sniper weapon. Engineer is a mid-range support class, and even with the longest ranges they can achieve, they’re still going to be best in that sweet 400-600ish range.

Warrior all ways get their kitten kicked in a 1vs1 duel, they are so bad at it, I wonder why their forum ain’t nonflowering with tears! I would all ways take the Engineer rifle over the warrior rifle… Tho, I’m not into the sniper thing they got going!