Guild Wars 2

Major nerf with minor things that don’t make up for it. Large enough to break classes all together

Played this class since Beta, Ill switch over to my Elem now as main. Thanks for wasting my time. I normally don’t rage post but honestly what the hell are they doing

/agree

Take away the stuff that is most used and replace it with stuff thats barely worth using.

What?

How is that horrible?

Ask Warrior what is an horrible patch.

They just got their only descent build in competitive tpvp butched.

We got hit hard by KR, but we already knew it was gone. We got other bug fixes and buff to make up for it.

To be fair, the patch shows how much the devs are focusing on the engineer profession, and that they really want to reach their vision for the class. I don’t think it reflects well on their understanding of how to actually successfully play an engineer, though.

+1
The average player knows the game better than the develps. Its sad…

Blame all of the ones who used 100 nades and SO abused it in spvp. And if you were one of them, QQ more and farewell

I never really cared much for KR, and it looks like just about everything else got brought up.

NevirSayDie.6235:

To be fair, the patch shows how much the devs are focusing on the engineer profession, and that they really want to reach their vision for the class. I don’t think it reflects well on their understanding of how to actually successfully play an engineer, though.

This.

This.

This.

So much this.

The other fixes are great. But this was simply a way to destroy Kit Refinement.

20 sec shared cooldown is useless. We can’t make a reliable skill choice.

Glue Trail and Magnetic Bomb can be used in builds. The rest is just useless (not because it is bad, but because we don’t need it).

We already had a lot of movement control. We don’t have much in supportive healing (in terms of how much we can heal, how short the cooldowns are, and how much we can do other tasks while healing).

The Guardian and Engineer can do healing support while doing damage or other things. We needed to dedicated our skill use solely to heal, while not doing damage or other support.

Now, we lost an AoE heal. This is not cool.

Honestly, I would expect the 20s to be tweaked in future patches. The disparity between the effects (some high-powered, like EG and GK; some low powered, like HK, FT) kept them from really balancing it. If they can test the effects on us for this patch, but see that nobody really takes the talent, they can just bump that one number around until it works for us, rather than tweaking each skill individually.

Basically, they can nerf/buff us with greater ease now that it’s all centered around the number 20.

We lost kit Refinement AND! 2 condition removers!! and gain nothing in return :S

best thing about the whole update was having veil taken out elixir U.. thats it. turrets are still terrible :S

google.3709:

We lost kit Refinement AND! 2 condition removers!! and gain nothing in return :S

best thing about the whole update was having veil taken out elixir U.. thats it. turrets are still terrible :S

This. And bug fixes (that shoulda been done months ago.)

Halcyon.7352:

google.3709:

We lost kit Refinement AND! 2 condition removers!! and gain nothing in return :S

best thing about the whole update was having veil taken out elixir U.. thats it. turrets are still terrible :S

This. And bug fixes (that shoulda been done months ago.)

^ yah :P, but considering we’re the buggiest class in the game, i dont consider those a pro lol!

God, my heart loves engi but my brain is telling me “stop being dumb, go play mesmer”

We knew we were losing kit refinement. Did you really expect a 10 point trait to remain that powerful?

TheAltarBoy.3176:

We knew we were losing kit refinement. Did you really expect a 10 point trait to remain that powerful?

they could just moved up the tree, everyone would been fine with that, and besides look at all our tool grand master? do you consider them build defining or a sad little joke ?

also :| it wasn’t OP at all! check eles and you will be speechless what they get on element change

No offense, but if you think the Engineer lives and dies by Kit Refinement, you have bigger problems.

I loved using it with my builds, but I’ve since gone without it and really haven’t noticed all that much. 100% Light field was a luxury—not a requirement. At least now with my PvE build I can go back to using Energy Conversion Matrix and dish out more damage than I did before.

TheAltarBoy.3176:

We knew we were losing kit refinement. Did you really expect a 10 point trait to remain that powerful?

Problem is, what reliable way of removing conditions bar Cleansing Formula do we have now?

google.3709:

TheAltarBoy.3176:

We knew we were losing kit refinement. Did you really expect a 10 point trait to remain that powerful?

they could just moved up the tree, everyone would been fine with that, and besides look at all our tool grand master? do you consider them build defining or a sad little joke ?

also :| it wasn’t OP at all! check eles and you will be speechless what they get on element change

Out of curiosity, has Anet to date ever moved a trait around? Seems like they’d much rather redesign a trait than move it (Probably cause it’s much easier is my guess)

KR as it was before would have been fine as a 20 point trait, with a forced 6-8 sec internal cd imo.

houndmd.4360:

Problem is, what reliable way of removing conditions bar Cleansing Formula do we have now?

Cleansing Burst
Elixir C
Toss Elixir C
Toss Elixir R
Drop Antidote
Super Elixir

Phineas Poe.3018:

houndmd.4360:

Problem is, what reliable way of removing conditions bar Cleansing Formula do we have now?

Cleansing Burst
Elixir C
Toss Elixir C
Toss Elixir R
Drop Antidote
Super Elixir

^

healing active turret cleanses all condis but no one seems to use it and just blow it up.

And cleaning formula.

waka.9826:

Phineas Poe.3018:

houndmd.4360:

Problem is, what reliable way of removing conditions bar Cleansing Formula do we have now?

Cleansing Burst
Elixir C
Toss Elixir C
Toss Elixir R
Drop Antidote
Super Elixir

^

healing active turret cleanses all condis but no one seems to use it and just blow it up.

I’m not a fan of the Healing Turret personally. I’m a Med Kit guy and have been for a while for on-heal proc effects like Altruism. But Cleansing Burst is very powerful, and anyone who runs Med Kit + Elixir Gun have two condition removal skills with Drop Antidote and Super Elixir on very short cooldowns when traited (20 and 16 seconds respectively).

Elixir C + R is more my speed for sPvP though.

We’ll be fine. The sky is not falling.

Phineas Poe.3018:

waka.9826:

Phineas Poe.3018:

houndmd.4360:

Problem is, what reliable way of removing conditions bar Cleansing Formula do we have now?

Cleansing Burst
Elixir C
Toss Elixir C
Toss Elixir R
Drop Antidote
Super Elixir

^

healing active turret cleanses all condis but no one seems to use it and just blow it up.

I’m not a fan of the Healing Turret personally. I’m a Med Kit guy and have been for a while for on-heal proc effects like Altruism. But Cleansing Burst is very powerful, and anyone who runs Med Kit + Elixir Gun have two condition removal skills with Drop Antidote and Super Elixir on very short cooldowns when traited (20 and 16 seconds respectively).

Elixir C + R is more my speed for sPvP though.

We’ll be fine. The sky is not falling.

I prefer healing turret because it’s basically impossible to interrupt

and med kit is too much active healing for me. Less time healing = more time damagin

I am more upset over the nerf to quickness. Elixer U was my best friend

AphoticEssance.7592:

I am more upset over the nerf to quickness. Elixer U was my best friend

Atleast you’re not a warrior, their dps literally just got halved. Plus elixir U didn’t even synergize with anything engineers had, and now it’s also a stun break.

google.3709:

TheAltarBoy.3176:

We knew we were losing kit refinement. Did you really expect a 10 point trait to remain that powerful?

they could just moved up the tree, everyone would been fine with that, and besides look at all our tool grand master? do you consider them build defining or a sad little joke ?

I never really noticed it being overpowered or thought about the cost versus the performance. For me, it was useless except for super elixir; i was spending 10 points for that ONE thing, which seemed a fair trade. Kit refinement should have been moved up the tree and then pretty much left how it was. The grandmaster tool traits are a joke.

AphoticEssance.7592:

I am more upset over the nerf to quickness. Elixer U was my best friend

This is something everyone will deal with.

And now it’s an instant cast making it less clunky, no longer has Quickening Zephyr, breaks stuns, and now always gives a projectile block combo field when thrown.

Elixir U got a lot of help with this patch. I may start using it with my PPHGH build in sPvP.

TheAltarBoy.3176:

We knew we were losing kit refinement. Did you really expect a 10 point trait to remain that powerful?

Yet rangers have a 5 POINT trait that gives them quickness everytime they swap pets. Seems legit.

waka.9826:

TheAltarBoy.3176:

We knew we were losing kit refinement. Did you really expect a 10 point trait to remain that powerful?

Yet rangers have a 5 POINT trait that gives them quickness everytime they swap pets. Seems legit.

you gotta understand the poor guys tho, pets did 60% of their damage, the ranger itself damage is nothing but pretty animations, so quickness help balance this.. and now they are taking a huge hit!

waka.9826:

AphoticEssance.7592:

I am more upset over the nerf to quickness. Elixer U was my best friend

Atleast you’re not a warrior, their dps literally just got halved. Plus elixir U didn’t even synergize with anything engineers had, and now it’s also a stun break.

Rifle builds used it pretty well.

waka.9826:

AphoticEssance.7592:

I am more upset over the nerf to quickness. Elixer U was my best friend

Atleast you’re not a warrior, their dps literally just got halved. Plus elixir U didn’t even synergize with anything engineers had, and now it’s also a stun break.

Their DPS while in cheese-mode got halved. They’ll still be the premier PvE DPS class.

google.3709:

waka.9826:

TheAltarBoy.3176:

We knew we were losing kit refinement. Did you really expect a 10 point trait to remain that powerful?

Yet rangers have a 5 POINT trait that gives them quickness everytime they swap pets. Seems legit.

you gotta understand the poor guys tho, pets did 60% of their damage, the ranger itself damage is nothing but pretty animations, so quickness help balance this.. and now they are taking a huge hit!

Yeah the rangers damage itself better be pretty animations when pets like jaguar and birds basically do 5k passive damage quite often.

Phineas Poe.3018:

AphoticEssance.7592:

I am more upset over the nerf to quickness. Elixer U was my best friend

This is something everyone will deal with.

And now it’s an instant cast making it less clunky, no longer has Quickening Zephyr, breaks stuns, and now always gives a projectile block combo field when thrown.

Elixir U got a lot of help with this patch. I may start using it with my PPHGH build in sPvP.

Do not get me wrong I am trying to look at this objectively since I am saying this prematurely from work. Stun break is not a big deal when you have other elixirs dedicated to stun breaks. How many elixir stun breaks does one need? Elixir U was the main component in one of my DPS strings. So, I will get less dps with my p/s/elixer/condi build. Quickening Zephyr is not that big of a deal when you are ranged. Now, if it was frenzy and Quickening Zephyr that they got rid of, I would look at the change as a buff.

AphoticEssance.7592:

Phineas Poe.3018:

AphoticEssance.7592:

I am more upset over the nerf to quickness. Elixer U was my best friend

This is something everyone will deal with.

And now it’s an instant cast making it less clunky, no longer has Quickening Zephyr, breaks stuns, and now always gives a projectile block combo field when thrown.

Elixir U got a lot of help with this patch. I may start using it with my PPHGH build in sPvP.

Do not get me wrong I am trying to look at this objectively since I am saying this prematurely from work. Stun break is not a big deal when you have other elixirs dedicated to stun breaks. How many elixir stun breaks does one need? Elixir U was the main component in one of my DPS strings. So, I will get less dps with my p/s/elixer/condi build. Quickening Zephyr is not that big of a deal when you are ranged. Now, if it was frenzy and Quickening Zephyr that they got rid of, I would look at the change as a buff.

I don’t consider the haste nerf a nerf to engineer at all seeing as elixir U barely increased engineer dps at all seeing as engineer dps builds are either going to be spike damage or condition. Have fun killing anything with quickness flamethrower, quickness grenade 1 spam or quickness rifle 1.

waka.9826:

AphoticEssance.7592:

Phineas Poe.3018:

AphoticEssance.7592:

I am more upset over the nerf to quickness. Elixer U was my best friend

This is something everyone will deal with.

And now it’s an instant cast making it less clunky, no longer has Quickening Zephyr, breaks stuns, and now always gives a projectile block combo field when thrown.

Elixir U got a lot of help with this patch. I may start using it with my PPHGH build in sPvP.

Do not get me wrong I am trying to look at this objectively since I am saying this prematurely from work. Stun break is not a big deal when you have other elixirs dedicated to stun breaks. How many elixir stun breaks does one need? Elixir U was the main component in one of my DPS strings. So, I will get less dps with my p/s/elixer/condi build. Quickening Zephyr is not that big of a deal when you are ranged. Now, if it was frenzy and Quickening Zephyr that they got rid of, I would look at the change as a buff.

I don’t consider the haste nerf a nerf to engineer at all seeing as elixir U barely increased engineer dps at all seeing as engineer dps builds are either going to be spike damage or condition. Have fun killing anything with quickness flamethrower, quickness grenade 1 spam or quickness rifle 1.

You mean the nerf to “quickness?” I do not think it is an Engineer specific nerf, it just nerfs how I applied my conditions previously with my pistol. When coupled with elixir b, elixir u did greatly increase dps for my condition build that use pistol/pistol or pistol/shield.

Again I am stating this prematurely because I am still at work

TheAltarBoy.3176:

We knew we were losing kit refinement. Did you really expect a 10 point trait to remain that powerful?

Compared to Mug and Elemental Attunement? No, the trait wasn’t inordinately powerful at all. What it did was create one undesirable BUILD. Nerfing that build was simply low hanging fruit, because even though the Thief backstab build hits harder, is easier to play, and has better escapes, there is no one single trait that could be nerfed to make it go away like kit refinement did for 100 ’nades.

OP, I agree 100%

Having played eng since beta I’ve seen this class become less fun with each and every patch.
Going to play my Mesmer as a main (on whom I just look at engies as free badges)

I’d rather they made turrets fun to use rather than buffed them. I’m still not tempted to use them even now after they’ve been buffed…

Flamethrower Kit is no longer viable.

/signed

These devs are clueless

Meh…not really surprised at KR nerf. Mostly just disappointed about the CD… and the loss of the extra super elixir.

I was looking forward to trying out a condition / turret build… then discovered that the turrets dont get the new buffs if you slot “deployable turrets”. Good times.

I don’t believe any Dev actually plays an Engineer beside testing out the QQs they receive from other professions.

Seems to me like besides Medkit and Bombkit they nerfed the effects of KR then on top of that added restrictions on those new effects that would have been harsh even on the pre-patch ones.
Just think if they didnt change the effects of KR, 100nades would still have been dead after these CD restrictions.

According to an earlier Dev talk, they play an all-Eng team in PvP.

I guess the problems must be: a) we almost always play with other classes or run solo, b) far more of us play PvE and WvW than PvP, and c) we don’t play the way the Dev’s do.
- Our bad!

Talbin.8305:

I was looking forward to trying out a condition / turret build… then discovered that the turrets dont get the new buffs if you slot “deployable turrets”. Good times.

Uh, what…?

The patch notes also failed to mention that turrets now explode after 5 mins…

Zenguy.6421:

According to an earlier Dev talk, they play an all-Eng team in PvP.

I guess the problems must be: a) we almost always play with other classes or run solo, b) far more of us play PvE and WvW than PvP, and c) we don’t play the way the Dev’s do.
- Our bad!

That was a joke. The mentioned their 5 engineer arena team and asked sarcastically why they weren’t winning. They don’t run any such thing. Bad joke imo.

For Kit Refinement I find the new skills to be worse than the last when you consider the new ridiculous 20 second cooldown. The bomb kit refinement magnet bomb is the only one that sounds pretty good, but now if I run it with speedy kits for speed It’s never going to be ready and ill be pulling mobs I dont want to be pulling. Super speed sounds nice on wrench but it’s crap with speedy kits and I wont be running it kit refinement anymore with it. In fact, now I wont be using kit refinement on any of my loadouts now that I think of it.

This was a nerf patch. There was nothing about those turret buffs that could make me want to use them.

Rifle turret +50% damage increase still probably doesn’t make it worth taking. +50% of little damage isn’t much of an increase.

Rocket turret still falls apart to sneezing and we will have to wait 50 seconds instead of 60 to rebuild it. That’s not going to make me take it any more than I usually do.

There’s no way I’m using thumper turret for cripple. I sure wish I had box of nails Kit Refinement back….

25% health on net turret isn’t going to do anything besides maybe survive a boss AoE. It’s still going down in 1-2 greatsword swings.

Flame turret actually sounds useful now though…. Yeah, I like that change.

I’m astounded they’re finding new and creative ways to nerf engineer at least.

Vague.1602:

The patch notes also failed to mention that turrets now explode after 5 mins…

No, it’s in the notes… Twice.

Vague.1602:

The patch notes also failed to mention that turrets now explode after 5 mins…

Why would that matter, they get destroyed by AOE in under 5 seconds anyways.

paleeshi.1924:

Talbin.8305:

I was looking forward to trying out a condition / turret build… then discovered that the turrets dont get the new buffs if you slot “deployable turrets”. Good times.

Uh, what…?

Deplorable turrets ( trait ) still uses old turrets, so if you have it on, flame turret will go back to its 40s cd, rifle turret will do 50% less damge and no cripple from thump!

its ironical how the trait, that people asked Anet to fix for soo long, is now bugged again and worst then before

google.3709:

paleeshi.1924:

Talbin.8305:

I was looking forward to trying out a condition / turret build… then discovered that the turrets dont get the new buffs if you slot “deployable turrets”. Good times.

Uh, what…?

Deplorable turrets ( trait ) still uses old turrets, so if you have it on, flame turret will go back to its 40s cd, rifle turret will do 50% less damge and no cripple from thump!

its ironical how the trait, that people asked Anet to fix for soo long, is now bugged again and worst then before

With the new build that recently came out, only the flame turret is still broke and has the old cooldown. Rifle and Thumper now work properly (although the Thumper tooltip still uses the old one with deployable turret).