Guild Wars 2

just a thought on this, please feel free to provide your own

Explosives – power/ condition damage
Firearms- precision/ crit damage
Inventions- toughness/ healing power
Potions/ vitality/ condition duration
Tools/ boon duration/ tool belt recharge

elixir gun should be on the potions line.
flamethrower along the explosives line with the grenade kit and bomb kit.
shield is still with inventions but the pistol is more along the explosives and potions line with the rifle being a weapon that benefits most from firearms and explosives.

the reason i split the pistol and rifle like this is because i view the rifle as a burst weapon where as the pistol is a condition spreading engine.

so the rifle would want traits that benefit direct damage and burst, and the pistol would want traits the allow you to survive for longer while keeping your conditions on them as long as possible which this change would do whether you went P/S for toughness or P/P for the burning with alchemy to keep you alive.

The trait bonuses would make certain lines (Explosives, Firearms) overpowered – there’s a reason they’re divided the way they are, after all. They want to encourage a bit of diversification, as opposed to “Want crits? All the points into Firearms!” or “Damage? EXPLOSIVES.”

Sure, it might be a pain in the kitten to get things to high ratings – but that’s the point.

Other than that, don’t really have anything to say.

Anymras.5729:

They want to encourage a bit of diversification, as opposed to “Want crits? All the points into Firearms!” or “Damage? EXPLOSIVES.”

Sure, it might be a pain in the kitten to get things to high ratings – but that’s the point.

That´s probably why a Thief gets both precision and crit-damage in the same trait-line, they need it so much more than our class . . .

hydeaut.1758:

Anymras.5729:

They want to encourage a bit of diversification, as opposed to “Want crits? All the points into Firearms!” or “Damage? EXPLOSIVES.”

Sure, it might be a pain in the kitten to get things to high ratings – but that’s the point.

That´s probably why a Thief gets both precision and crit-damage in the same trait-line, they need it so much more than our class . . .

…wow. I can’t believe they actually have that set up like that. That’s just stupid – I actually had to look it up to affirm to myself that this wasn’t just a “Man, kitten Thieves.” post.

Now that I’m looking, holy crap, I seriously have trouble imagining the thought process that went into this one, especially looking at the traits. No wonder so many people play them – you can make a blender with only one trait line, with one minor trait causing critical hits to grant Initiative (the Thief equivalent to a cooldown on weapon skills), albeit twenty percent of the time with a one-second cooldown. There’s a Grandmaster trait that gives the Thief a 100% crit rate while in Stealth, when they can go Stealth every few seconds- you know what, I’m just gonna stop looking at this now.

Disregard my earlier post. It was made without knowledge of this particular bit of mind-boggling…whatever this is. Maybe, I don’t know, maybe there’s actually a reason it seemed like a good idea, but just…wow.

As a player’s suggestion, this is “Well, that’s probably not a good idea.”
As a developer’s decision, this is straight-up nonsense.

Anymras.5729:

hydeaut.1758:

Anymras.5729:

They want to encourage a bit of diversification, as opposed to “Want crits? All the points into Firearms!” or “Damage? EXPLOSIVES.”

Sure, it might be a pain in the kitten to get things to high ratings – but that’s the point.

That´s probably why a Thief gets both precision and crit-damage in the same trait-line, they need it so much more than our class . . .

…wow. I can’t believe they actually have that set up like that. That’s just stupid – I actually had to look it up to affirm to myself that this wasn’t just a “Man, kitten Thieves.” post.

Now that I’m looking, holy crap, I seriously have trouble imagining the thought process that went into this one, especially looking at the traits. No wonder so many people play them – you can make a blender with only one trait line, with one minor trait causing critical hits to grant Initiative (the Thief equivalent to a cooldown on weapon skills), albeit twenty percent of the time with a one-second cooldown. There’s a Grandmaster trait that gives the Thief a 100% crit rate while in Stealth, when they can go Stealth every few seconds- you know what, I’m just gonna stop looking at this now.

Disregard my earlier post. It was made without knowledge of this particular bit of mind-boggling…whatever this is. Maybe, I don’t know, maybe there’s actually a reason it seemed like a good idea, but just…wow.

As a player’s suggestion, this is “Well, that’s probably not a good idea.”
As a developer’s decision, this is straight-up nonsense.

If you haven’t played thief you shouldn’t comment on their traits. 100% on crit in stealth is only used in gimmick instant burst steal/cnd/backstab build. Executioner is much better.

Initiative regen on autoattack isn’t that strong as one might think(it’s still stronk, unlike many engie traits), it’s more to make thief less init starved in longer fights. Thief sure can spam one ability for entire fight, but other classes can use all of their skills at once without dps loss.

I have played a thief, a bit. Not enough to get into the traits, obviously – otherwise, I would’ve known of the Precision/Critical Damage increase trait line.

I do know that the amount of initiative regained is probably not as horrifying as it looks on paper, but that doesn’t do much.

However…It still seems nonsense to me. It will always seem nonsense to me. It will never make sense to me that somebody thought it was a good enough idea to put both Precision and Critical Damage increases in the same traitline that nobody took that out sometime during beta.

Of course, the people behind that are possibly the same people who decided Engineers should deal less damage to compensate for possible versatility from kits, who decided to reduce Grenade damage to compensate for finally getting something working, and so on, and so forth.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_mesmer_traits -mesmers
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_elementalist_traits -elementalist
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_ranger_traits -ranger

putting crit damage after precision on the same trait line isn’t some over powered thing that only the thief has access too.

Anymras.5729:

I have played a thief, a bit. Not enough to get into the traits, obviously – otherwise, I would’ve known of the Precision/Critical Damage increase trait line.

I do know that the amount of initiative regained is probably not as horrifying as it looks on paper, but that doesn’t do much.

However…It still seems nonsense to me. It will always seem nonsense to me. It will never make sense to me that somebody thought it was a good enough idea to put both Precision and Critical Damage increases in the same traitline that nobody took that out sometime during beta.

Of course, the people behind that are possibly the same people who decided Engineers should deal less damage to compensate for possible versatility from kits, who decided to reduce Grenade damage to compensate for finally getting something working, and so on, and so forth.

Thief isn’t the only class with that stat allocation: elementalist, ranger and mesmer have it to.
The design is not meant to deny the possibility to maximize the efficiency of a build by force the player to take stats that are not primary useful to him, the trait trees are designed like this because they are supposed to be used by builds that values those stats as of primary utility. For exemple the firearm tree: it’s obviously designed for pistol and/or flamethrower condition builds, since the engineer has traits that proc conditions on crits.
The real problem i see is that rifle is in this tree to, which is nonsensical, it would benefit much more from the stats of the explosion tree.
My personal idea of a solution would be: make the stats independent from the trees, and give each player 140 (140 instead of 70 because now the number of stat is doubled since they’re no more tied together) points, of which he could pick a maximum of 30 points per stat.

Personally I think the layout of the traits and trait themes are fine. They just need to make sure a bunch of the lesser-used traits are actually valuable compared to the ones that we do see. To do this, I really think they’d have to make some of the mandatory ones currently automatic. Like the increased bomb/mine explosive range. I could never use Bombs without that trait and I’m forced to ignore all the other options if I use Bombs.

yeah, some of our trait skills are a little bit of a mess

for example there is no good reason that [hair trigger] and [rifle mod] shouldn’t be just one trait.

i like the idea behind [rifled barrels] but i also feel that the rifle should have a base attack range of 1200 to start with. i think it would be better if this trait increased critical hit damage by 10% instead and our rifles and pistols naturally had a range of 1200 and 1000 respectively.

the elixir gun should probably have its buffs either more attuned or more separated from the flamethrower. honestly i kind of feel that the elixir gun is our most poorly conceived weapon kit, the weakness on its auto attack is too short, the buff on the number 2 skill will not help allies unless you hit an enemy first, its highest attack skill is power based and not condition damage based like the rest of its attacks and its healing combo field isn’t very powerful and of a not very useful type to prevent damage or increase healing potential.

you noticed that too huh.

there’s no trait for faster speed (outside of the spam button boost) (the 25% should be in and out of combat not just in combat we don’t have seals or signets)

The skills to add damage aren’t anywhere near the same as the ranger and thief nerfing us further. Ranger and thief have abilities that increase their damage with little effort. Engineers either have to have no endurance, full endurance, do a dance while rubbing their belly and tapping their head to get close but it’s not the same.

the condition duration should be where the condition damage should be and condition damage is where critical damage should be.

It’s just weird the setup. I think if they moved this around a bit it would work out much better for diversity.

What? Oh, kittenmit. It’s interesting how three out of four of these classes with the setup are some of the ones people always seem to bring up when they’re talking about OP things, of course, with Ranger being the exception.

Cleaning formula 409 needs to move to tier one trait. As basically out only condition remover it would open up a lot more viability for many builds.

I posted why I think even our burst builds aren’t working like the two other classes and why even when we spec for burst we hardly do any damage.

It’s OVER HERE btw.