Guild Wars 2

while aimlessly testing my many tricks on the golems i was looking at my combat log and noticed that i was getting varying static discharge damages, i figured there was some modifier going on so i decided to test every toolbelt skill and see what was going on, anyway static discharge deals different amounts of damage depending on the toolbelt skill you use.

Now to test what i was doing i took a soldiers amulet so no crits and only the static discharge trait and the acidic elixirs trait (awhile ago i discovered that toss elixir U was doing alot more damage then it was meant to which has since been fixed)i also made sure no buffs or debuffs were applied to me or the golem and in the event of inevitable debuffs (throw wrench, analyze) i looked at the numbers and accounted for the extra damage and indeed static discharge was hitting at different values for each individual skill.

the 2 skills that i feel should be noted more so then any other due to the use in static discharge builds is Surprise shot and analyze, the SD damage was on average 250-300 damage less then throw wrench’s SD damage which might not seem like much but when you take into account that its at least 40-50% less damage in the build i was using you can see that its quite a drop in damage if you were to be full specced for damage output.

Apart from those two some skills were hitting around 25ish% compared to the higher damage SD from Throw wrench but that might have just been bad luck on the damage modifier so more testing would be required on them but i feel like this should be looked at, anyway just for kittens and giggles Acidic tossed elixirs appeared to do the most damage with SD on average but its still not in anyway at all viable.

Now this is running with 100% crit chance and not maximum damage and you can see how vastly different the damage is and remember throw wrench will stack 4 vulnerability meaning 4% extra damage but in this case i don’t think it matters

Sounds like to me as Anet finally got onto some 2 years old whine and apply stealthnerf on it:-)

I further tested this, but couldn’t be bothered to do a screenshot. I found that even with surprise shot, the static discharge shot did 1.2K dmg for me (we must be running a similar setup for the test), but then in an uncommon instance, it would sometimes only hit for 600-700 ish. So I think it’s just registering it as a crit in the log and in-game, but it provides non-crit damage (or something like that), and hence produces 600-700 dmg when I have 200% crit dmg.

Just did some quick testing in HotM with 0/0/0/0/2, and runes/sigils with no +power or +precision as to get more consistent numbers (WTB steady weapons). The Static Discharge proc from Surprise Shot is definitely doing less damage than procs from grenade barrage, throw wrench, and regenerating mist. On the heavy golem, the Surprise Shot SD procs consistently hit between 115 and 145, while the other SD procs consistently hit between 200 and 240 on the same golem. I’ll test some other skills and see if I can find any other outlier procs.

It seems Incendiary Ammo’s proc hits within the ~130 range, Mine Field hits within the ~240 range (while detonate mine field hits in the ~130), Toss Elixir B hits within the ~240 range, Toss Elixir H 240, Rocket Kick 240, Launch Personal Battering Ram 240, Super Speed 130, Analyze 130, Big ol’ Bomb 240, Toss Elixir C 240, Toss Elixir R 240, Toss Elixir U 240, Bandage Self 240, Rocket 240, Detonate Rocket Turret 130, Toss Elixir S 240, Detonate Healing Turret 130, Throw Napalm 240, Net Attack 240, Detonate Flame Turret 130, Detonate Net Turret 130, Static Shock 240, Detonate Rifle Turret 130, Rumble 240, Detonate Thumper Turret 130.

Basically, there are 2 different categories of SD procs:

The first, and most common, hits between ~200 and ~245 on a heavy golem with base power.

The second hits between ~105 and ~135. For any skill with 2 toolbelt skills, the second will fall in this category (detonate turrets, detonate mine field). Skills that are instant cast also fall in this category, including Surprise Shot, Incendiary Ammo, Healing Mist, and Super Speed.

It sucks that all instant proc skills are in the second category. If Surprise Shot and Analyze weren’t, SD builds would be more competitive.

Sins.4782:

It seems Incendiary Ammo’s proc hits within the ~130 range, Mine Field hits within the ~240 range (while detonate mine field hits in the ~130), Toss Elixir B hits within the ~240 range, Toss Elixir H 240, Rocket Kick 240, Launch Personal Battering Ram 240, Super Speed 130, Analyze 130, Big ol’ Bomb 240, Toss Elixir C 240, Toss Elixir R 240, Toss Elixir U 240, Bandage Self 240, Rocket 240, Detonate Rocket Turret 130, Toss Elixir S 240, Detonate Healing Turret 130, Throw Napalm 240, Net Attack 240, Detonate Flame Turret 130, Detonate Net Turret 130, Static Shock 240, Detonate Rifle Turret 130, Rumble 240, Detonate Thumper Turret 130.

Basically, there are 2 different categories of SD procs:

The first, and most common, hits between ~200 and ~245 on a heavy golem with base power.

The second hits between ~105 and ~135. For any skill with 2 toolbelt skills, the second will fall in this category (detonate turrets, detonate mine field). Skills that are instant cast also fall in this category, including Surprise Shot, Incendiary Ammo, Healing Mist, and Super Speed.

It sucks that all instant proc skills are in the second category. If Surprise Shot and Analyze weren’t, SD builds would be more competitive.

great work there, i do think anet should make it equal across the board, when you look atthe s/f ele whos burst is quite similar in the sense that its instant then look at the defensive/utility options a s/f youll realize that an ele has alot more defensive skills that come with the build compared to a sd engineer, hell a bit more damage and i might be able to throw in elixir s over utility goggles but kittenm those thief tears are to good.

I did a little bit more testing to compare results, and found things a bit different to yours. Rocket Boots toolbelt, for example, was in the lower branch for my test. Maybe it’s somewhat random? Am quite confused as to why the didn’t just make it a universal damage output for each SD shot.

I’ll run some more tests tomorrow and get a larger sample size for damage #s for each skill, see if the results match up. I had some annoying interference while testing earlier (namely some guy nearby using “For Great Justice” while attacking another golem), so more data will be nice.

also i just remembered that one of the toss elixirs was also in the lower damage bracket

In my opinion, the best way to test this. Is to literally use each tool belt skill 100 times. then average out the damage. Then compare them. I feel anything less then 100 is too small of a sample size to trust the results.

For people that have The Predator, the higher damage procs always have the fireball animation, low damage procs always have the normal lightning animation.

Also, if you do not have a target, it will never do the high damage proc.

Some skills are more consistent with high procs than others and some don’t do high damage ever, but it really seems completely random. I spent a hour trying to nail down what causes the fireball to appear, but to no success.

It’s kinda disappointing to see this kind of stuff more than 2 years post release.

If SD was fixed it would finally be more viable (it’s already strong but having it fixed would be cool).

From my testing, throw wrench is consistently in the lower tier of damage. Perhaps due to programming causing the damage to be halved from the original tool-tip damage due to the wrench hitting twice?

Who knows, but please ANet fix

ocirne.7915:

For people that have The Predator, the higher damage procs always have the fireball animation, low damage procs always have the normal lightning animation.

Also, if you do not have a target, it will never do the high damage proc.

Some skills are more consistent with high procs than others and some don’t do high damage ever, but it really seems completely random. I spent a hour trying to nail down what causes the fireball to appear, but to no success.

quip too i believe

I still dont think an SD build(glassy-burst) is really viable, even if it got buffed, its fun no doubt, hell im rebuilding my old SD build from ages ago it’s that much fun. But for serious play you want your burst coming from something that has a lot of disengage so they are hard to pin down. Shatter mesmer with staff/sword-torch and the usual blink/decoy or a thief are the best classes because of this reason. Mesmer may just edge it in open field because the assist spike comes on the end of a nice duration immob.

I look over the engineer and hes too easy just to keep tagged for assist, you have one 5 second stealth on a 50 second or so timer, the block(gear shield) and invuln help but it just doesnt stand up to the amount of disengage/evasion a thief or mesmer has. And you need these sorts of skills to keep you alive if you are bursting(glassy) on any class.

This is from a WvW perspective.

well in pvp, once they find out u r glass, they focus u right away..

Wyrden.4713:

well in pvp, once they find out u r glass, they focus u right away..

Exactly, but kind of hard to do when you are constantly going in and out of stealth, evading, teleporting(thief) or going in and out of stealth with confusing clones everywhere(mesmer).

That is why these 2 classes dominate DPS builds in smaller group WvW open field. It is hard to pin them down for assist/train damage unlike say a fresh air ele, SD engi or killshot warrior. They are also a great counter to DPS builds from other classes, against a competent bursty thief your SD engi is like free bags.

Chorazin.4107:

I still dont think an SD build(glassy-burst) is really viable, even if it got buffed, its fun no doubt, hell im rebuilding my old SD build from ages ago it’s that much fun. But for serious play you want your burst coming from something that has a lot of disengage so they are hard to pin down. Shatter mesmer with staff/sword-torch and the usual blink/decoy or a thief are the best classes because of this reason. Mesmer may just edge it in open field because the assist spike comes on the end of a nice duration immob.

I look over the engineer and hes too easy just to keep tagged for assist, you have one 5 second stealth on a 50 second or so timer, the block(gear shield) and invuln help but it just doesnt stand up to the amount of disengage/evasion a thief or mesmer has. And you need these sorts of skills to keep you alive if you are bursting(glassy) on any class.

This is from a WvW perspective.

ive been playing SD engi with a shout bow warrior in spvp and my build is slightly different but a shoutbow warr can really keep a SD engineer going, its not all on the warrior though i plan all my turret knock backs and always chain my skills with his, and because he gives me fury i can use utility goggles defensively instead of using it to make sure my burst hits hard enough, i also get up around 20+ might really easy and surprise shot with air/fire has proven to be amazing at finishing enemys in the middle of a fight that other classes just cant do so easily, a mesmer is fairly telegrahed compared to this and a thief might be able to doit but not at range in the middle of a dodge roll while using healing turret and CC the enemy’s still fighting.

now dont get me wrong im not trying to say SD engi can be amazing im saying that there is potential there but you are right in saying that its better left to classes that have disengage ability’s which is where SD needs a buff, as it is its damage is pretty good, buff the damage and people might be able to take more defensive things like elixir S but what about when people just go full out damage and thanks to a buff can 1 shot anything that isnt bunkerish at range (cele engineers actually go down really easy when they are alone versus a SD engi atm)(also i realize i said buff the damage earlier but after some playing and more testing im going back on what i said), anyway it really is the disengage and sustain options for SD engineer that need a buff.

Its really hard to pick where you buff it though, its very limited in the skills it can take and you dont want to buff something thats just going to work better on another build or even worse better on the current cele engineer build, but i do think that the buffs should be on gadgets, making Static shock (AED toolbelt) long range instead of point blank and instead of having a cast time just have a zap that steams towards the target and stuns them after 3/4 of a second, it would work alot better with static discharges damage output and the loss would be an aoe CC and team heal (also a stream of lighting that says dodge now), also putting stability on gadgeteer for aed instead of retaliation would be very good, as it currently is gadgets arnt used in gadget builds because the benefits of them untraited are perfect compliments to some builds like slick shoes on cele engineer and rocket boots when roaming WvW and the only other gadget that gets any use is utility goggles on SD engineer but thats only because the toolbelt skill works so well with SD and the fury and might (if traited) are a nice bonus.

The thing about gadgeteer/gadgets is the benefits are short lived and a Buff like that to aed still wouldnt be more viable as a heal in current meta builds then healing turret, that would give us extra disengage, and the same burst if we were to take something over utility goggles or rifle turret (allthough id probly never drop rifle turret), and if someone were to take more damage still well using static shot would still be very noticeable.

Id also like to see scope and enduring damage swap positions, once again it wont overly help current meta builds, at most make engineers spamming nades from the sides a bit more scary but in all honesty cele engineers have low crit chance as it is so if they are willing to drop 1 point to get it then i feel its a fair trade off, also SD is amazing when fighting an opponent at range in spvp if they are defending a point it gives you heaps of time to get good positioning and you can easily fire away without to much worry so that would emphasize on that factor with range being the controlling factor on damage output and not my precious dodges, it would be a nerf to the sneaky magnet pull burst but if they were to change aed to what i suggested then a 10% nerf to a huge burst would be acceptable.

To make this build more viable static discharge needs to be consistent with each tool belt skill and it needs to recieve a small damage increase. Buffs to the gadgets should really come in the form of the skill being buffed rather than the (unfortunately awful) traits also. Static Discharge requires very good positioning to work in higher PvP and you don’t really have any team fight pressure compared to nades, but on the plus side it’s fun and hardcounters d/p thieves.

Why not make it a master trait renamed with a new effect
Static Addict:
1: Toolbelt abilities fire off two charges of current static discharge
2: each time you crit you have a 50% chance to fire off current Static discharge max of 2 per 1 sec

What if static discharge stripped 1 boon per hit. It wouldn’t be OP when you consider that it can’t be stronger than a mesmers shatter boon strip and it would give some utility to the build. I feel like playing SD engie in PvP is like a squishier weaker s/f ele.

EDIT: Not per bounce, if there was 2 on a point you could insta strip all their boons.

It would be ridiculously stronger the Mesmer shatter strip. The cool downs on the tool belt skill are ridiculously lower then the mesmer shatter skills.