Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I just read an interesting post by cottage.3274 (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Any-decent-builds-WITHOUT-a-kit/first#post1466975) :

“go do some tests then come back and tall me i`m wrong,i did and alot,
this is what you get:

65%
explosive shot 2 bleed stacks=7 ticks
poison dart volley 5 darts=16 ticks
blowtorch 200 distance 3 stacks=9 ticks

vs 50%
explosive Shot 2 bleed stacks=6 ticks
poison dart volley 5 darts=15 ticks
blowtorch 200 distance 3 stacks=9 ticks

what you and some ppl do not seem to get is that its true that per one shot of explosive shot you will not get 1s or 2s extra if you don`t be at 50/100% exactly since its gets rounded down.
but if you get to 0.25/0.65/0.75+- ect it will be added to the next shot and the next shot and so on resulting in a extra tick at some point to take 65%(its really 62.5%) as example on the second shot you will get one more tick.
and as you can see only blowtorch don`t get the benefit of 10 ticks vs 9 ticks in 65%/50% you need 70% for the 10.
so no you don`t need to be only in 50/100% to benefit from condition duration.
and like i said our low cd and base low duration on skills that apply conditions works to our favor when considering condition duration." -cottage.3274

So I went to the Trait builder to see how I can hit 65% with my P/P HGH build and it looks like we have a winner (unless I’m sleepy and missed something):

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRR;2Z;0h0u5NQFx0;9;5T9T;253B1;017A;1aJ0;3dZH9dJG41Fn

Thoughts?

The condition duration stuff is very interesting, I definitely need to test this out further. I still think they should just give us partial ticks and be done with it though. Especially when it comes to our Burning damage it gets clipped entirely too easily.

As to pushing bleed duration, in this case I honestly don’t see it working so well. You only have Explosive Shot and the Earth Sigil for sources of bleed damage, which compared to the Burn damage is a small chunk of what you can output. You are probably better off with just taking Nightmare runes or something and getting more condi-dmg.

Then again, I don’t have a DPS simulator in front of me so I could be very well wrong in this assertion.

You can also run 4 Nightmares runes and 2 Lyssa, but yes, our standard condition builds now include the 2 Lyssa runes with some other 4 run condition damage/duration runeset. This has been used in tPvP level play by Teldo as well.

It’s important to note that as of right now, Nightmare is +20% condition duration instead of +10%. Whether or not that is intended or a tool tip error is unclear.

Guys if you are going condition duration builds you need:
Run the build 30/30/00/10/00
2x Superior runes of Lyssa
2x Superior Runes of the Mad King
2x Superior Runes of the Afflicted (for the bleed)
+Napalm Specialists for the 20% burn duration
+Superior Sigil of Venom (equip this once you have your 25 stacks of corruption(condition))

This will give you 3/4 skills with P/P with 4 ticks. Confusion is just shy at 90% condition duration.

Once they fix Giver’s weapons hitting +100% duration for all conditions will be easy.
Edit: If it so happens (I’ll test at 100% duration tonight) that you have to beat 50% or 100% duration one could swap out superior runes of the afflicted for a lower tier of mad king or lyssas to get 106% which I know for sure will cause 4 ticks.
Then you’d run the build 20/20/00/30/00

4 nightmares runes and 2 lyssa is the spvp way to go like Ayestes said nightmare is buged (?) and gives 20% not 10% for some time now.
also agony sigil seems to give 10% not only to bleed but to all (didnt test this just was told not long ago).
anyway i find any of this runesets to really make a very small impact on any spvp condition build so its hard to go wrong balthazar/lyssa/nightmare/afflicted w/e.
just refine the runes on your build and play style and you will get it to where you feel the most comfortable at the end.

Cempa.5619:

Hi,

I just read an interesting post by cottage.3274 (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Any-decent-builds-WITHOUT-a-kit/first#post1466975) :

“go do some tests then come back and tall me i`m wrong,i did and alot,
this is what you get:

65%
explosive shot 2 bleed stacks=7 ticks
poison dart volley 5 darts=16 ticks
blowtorch 200 distance 3 stacks=9 ticks

vs 50%
explosive Shot 2 bleed stacks=6 ticks
poison dart volley 5 darts=15 ticks
blowtorch 200 distance 3 stacks=9 ticks

what you and some ppl do not seem to get is that its true that per one shot of explosive shot you will not get 1s or 2s extra if you don`t be at 50/100% exactly since its gets rounded down.
but if you get to 0.25/0.65/0.75+- ect it will be added to the next shot and the next shot and so on resulting in a extra tick at some point to take 65%(its really 62.5%) as example on the second shot you will get one more tick.
and as you can see only blowtorch don`t get the benefit of 10 ticks vs 9 ticks in 65%/50% you need 70% for the 10.
so no you don`t need to be only in 50/100% to benefit from condition duration.
and like i said our low cd and base low duration on skills that apply conditions works to our favor when considering condition duration." -cottage.3274

So I went to the Trait builder to see how I can hit 65% with my P/P HGH build and it looks like we have a winner (unless I’m sleepy and missed something):

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRR;2Z;0h0u5NQFx0;9;5T9T;253B1;017A;1aJ0;3dZH9dJG41Fn

Thoughts?

the results are correct but the conclusion you draw is wrong. The game tracks each application of any effect separately in terms of duration and intensity.

you do not apply the bleed once per second exactly, first the projectile has travel time and second it has 0.8 AS. at some point it will happen that one bleed stack will reach the moment where the additional duration will allow one extra tick of damage.

poison and burn stack in duration anyway, so nothing new here.

also the way to go for spvp is 2xlyssa, 2xkrait, 2xafflicted, burn duration sigil, napalm specialist trait and 10 points in explosives.

the results are correct but the conclusion you draw is wrong. The game tracks each application of any effect separately in terms of duration and intensity.

if your going read and quote the wiki you also need to add “It is currently unknown if or how duration is rounded when stacked (or otherwise modified), neither if the remainder value is used as a prorata on the intensity for the last split second.”
and the all page is in a comparison to different sources that apply stacking effects not one source.

you do not apply the bleed once per second exactly, first the projectile has travel time and second it has 0.8 AS. at some point it will happen that one bleed stack will reach the moment where the additional duration will allow one extra tick of damage.

first of where do you see any talk on bleed get applied every second?
rate of fire have absolutely nothing do to with that nor do the travel time you can test this easy by going on a necro and use your scepter or your warrior mh sword.
extra ticks get added in a linear way from this partial % and can be calculated very easy so its not a stroke of luck that 2 bleeds overlap at some point.
so no the conclusion i draw is not wrong.

cottage.3274:

the results are correct but the conclusion you draw is wrong. The game tracks each application of any effect separately in terms of duration and intensity.

if your going read and quote the wiki you also need to add “It is currently unknown if or how duration is rounded when stacked (or otherwise modified), neither if the remainder value is used as a prorata on the intensity for the last split second.”
and the all page is in a comparison to different sources that apply stacking effects not one source.

you do not apply the bleed once per second exactly, first the projectile has travel time and second it has 0.8 AS. at some point it will happen that one bleed stack will reach the moment where the additional duration will allow one extra tick of damage.

first of where do you see any talk on bleed get applied every second?
rate of fire have absolutely nothing do to with that nor do the travel time you can test this easy by going on a necro and use your scepter or your warrior mh sword.
extra ticks get added in a linear way from this partial % and can be calculated very easy so its not a stroke of luck that 2 bleeds overlap at some point.
so no the conclusion i draw is not wrong.

sorry but you whole post is a big logic fail. you have some results but you just dont understand them, there is simple math behind it that you just dont grasp.

if we disregard projectile flying time, your pistol would apply your first bleed at 0s, next one at 0.8s, 1.6s and so on. with 20% conditon duration the bleed would last 2.4seconds and this results in an additional tick of damage after 4 seconds of combat (1.6s + 2.4s => one more tick at 4s). with only 10% it would not result in an addtional tick because it would wear off right before the tick (1.6 + 2.2s => 3.8, the bleed application wears off shortly before the tick).

sorry but you whole post is a big logic fail. you have some results but you just dont understand them, there is simple math behind it that you just dont grasp.
if we disregard projectile flying time, your pistol would apply your first bleed at 0s, next one at 0.8s, 1.6s and so on. with 20% conditon duration the bleed would last 2.4seconds and this results in an additional tick of damage after 4 seconds of combat (1.6s + 2.4s => one more tick at 4s). with only 10% it would not result in an addtional tick because it would wear off right before the tick (1.6 + 2.2s => 3.8, the bleed application wears off shortly before the tick).

you don`t grasp that rate of fire or travel time just don`t have nothing to do with that
its the duration of the bleed that matters.
when you slap a 2.5s bleed with one more 2.5s bleed you get 5s overall, it doesn’t matter if you apply it when the first one is at 2s/1s/ or 0.2s left in the duration the will both be 5s at the end so again rate of fire & travel time is irrelevant.
and you basically saying the same thing as me “extra ticks get added in a linear way from this partial %”
" if you get to 0.25/0.65/0.75+- ect it will be added to the next shot and the next shot and so on resulting in a extra tick at some point"
only you think it have something to do with how you apply the bleed not the bleed on its own.
i`m done with this at this point go do your tests hold off your pistol shot for 1s (w8 a tick of bleed) after you fire the first one and you will see i`m right meaning your 1.6+2.4=tick at 4s is off since you start 1s late with the second shot (“if we disregard projectile flying time”).
0.8+1+0.8=2.6 —2.4+2.4=4.8 ---2.4+2.6=5 —-yet you still get an extra tick even though the bleed by your logic doesn’t need to be there at all at 5s it needs to wear off at 4.8
now lets not disregard projectile flying how do you account for the same results at max range and at melee range?how will you calculate the exact travel time?
your simple math that i don`t grasp just got a bit tricky no?.
this will get you going.

*so to be clear its not how or when you apply the 0.? to the bleed stack as long as its there and didn`t wear off it will be calculated with the next one you apply and the next one and so on.

cottage.3274:

stuff

two possibilities either I misunderstand you cause your writing is horrible or you just fail at logic. especially your comment that ROF/time of application does not matter shows that you dont get it and I can just blame the education system of your country. ROF does matter alot, if you would fire once a second you would only be able to get extra ticks if you manage to get enough condition duration to reach full seconds only.

bleed does not stack in duration and nothing is added to the next shot, bleed starts kicking in as soon you apply it. if it holds till the next full second you get damage, if it does not it wears of before, simple logic. duration is not rounded, it lasts exactly the amount of time you get from bonus duration.

I will explain it last time:
-you apply a bleed once every 0.8 seconds, that means 1st at 0s, 2nd at 0.8, 3rd at 1.6 and so on, diesregarding projectile flying time resulting in moving in and out.
-assuming you have +10% bonus condition duration your bleed lasts 2.2s

now you apply 1st bleed at 0s, 2nd at 0.8 and 3rd at 1.6 and so on…
0s => *1st bleed has full duration 2.2s left
0.8s => *1st bleed has 1.4s duration left *2nd bleed has 2.2s left
1s => enemy receives damage for 2 bleed stacks *1st has 1.2s left *2nd has 2s left
1.6s => *1st has 0.6s left *2nd has 1,4s left *3rd 2.2s left
2s => enemy receives damage for 3 bleed stacks *1st hast 0.2s left *2nd has 1s left *third has 1.8s left
2.2s => 1st bleeds wears out and only 2 are left
2.4s => you apply your 4th bleed thus you have 3 bleeds on the target again, *2nd has 0.6s left *3rd has 1.4s left
3s => enemy receives damage for 3 bleeds, note that 2nd bleed wears out now and if you didnt had +10% bonus duration if would wear out at 2.8s and enemy would receive damage for 2 bleeds only.

in short, if duration is long enough to get it through to the next tick at FULL seconds before wearing out it does damage and that is why the ROF is indeed relevant, otherwise you would not be able to get a bonus tick with 10% condition duration only.

Not exactly sure what this is all about, to my knowledge 50% or 51% will give you another second of bleed once applied and that 100% or 101% will give you a 4 second bleed (I can confirm this). What I do know is that the tooltip on skills are indeed misleading when you increase duration. For example my burn says 3 3/4 seconds when indeed it ticks 4 times over 4 seconds.

What gear stats are you guys running with? Carrion/Rampager?

Nevermind I found it in the link provide from OP

So:
P/P = Vatlaaws with for 100% duration using runes/napalm specialist & wrenchkit
Grenade = Rampagers (also the best armor if your switching around from P/P to Grenades and don’t want to buy a ton of gear)
Rifle = Berserkers

CptCosmic.3156:

cottage.3274:

stuff

two possibilities either I misunderstand you cause your writing is horrible or you just fail at logic. especially your comment that ROF/time of application does not matter shows that you dont get it and I can just blame the education system of your country. ROF does matter alot, if you would fire once a second you would only be able to get extra ticks if you manage to get enough condition duration to reach full seconds only.

bleed does not stack in duration and nothing is added to the next shot, bleed starts kicking in as soon you apply it. if it holds till the next full second you get damage, if it does not it wears of before, simple logic. duration is not rounded, it lasts exactly the amount of time you get from bonus duration.

I will explain it last time:
-you apply a bleed once every 0.8 seconds, that means 1st at 0s, 2nd at 0.8, 3rd at 1.6 and so on, diesregarding projectile flying time resulting in moving in and out.
-assuming you have +10% bonus condition duration your bleed lasts 2.2s

now you apply 1st bleed at 0s, 2nd at 0.8 and 3rd at 1.6 and so on…
0s => *1st bleed has full duration 2.2s left
0.8s => *1st bleed has 1.4s duration left *2nd bleed has 2.2s left
1s => enemy receives damage for 2 bleed stacks *1st has 1.2s left *2nd has 2s left
1.6s => *1st has 0.6s left *2nd has 1,4s left *3rd 2.2s left
2s => enemy receives damage for 3 bleed stacks *1st hast 0.2s left *2nd has 1s left *third has 1.8s left
2.2s => 1st bleeds wears out and only 2 are left
2.4s => you apply your 4th bleed thus you have 3 bleeds on the target again, *2nd has 0.6s left *3rd has 1.4s left
3s => enemy receives damage for 3 bleeds, note that 2nd bleed wears out now and if you didnt had +10% bonus duration if would wear out at 2.8s and enemy would receive damage for 2 bleeds only.

in short, if duration is long enough to get it through to the next tick at FULL seconds before wearing out it does damage and that is why the ROF is indeed relevant, otherwise you would not be able to get a bonus tick with 10% condition duration only.

nice insults m8 like i said i`m done with you i said what i needed to say only thing left to add is that your wrong have a good day.

cottage.3274:

nice insults m8 like i said i`m done with you i said what i needed to say only thing left to add is that your wrong have a good day.

you have zero evidence, fail at math and logic that is why I am wrong rolleyes cool story bro. go to school, learn some math and logic, then talk please

Goloith.6349:

Not exactly sure what this is all about, to my knowledge 50% or 51% will give you another second of bleed once applied and that 100% or 101% will give you a 4 second bleed (I can confirm this). What I do know is that the tooltip on skills are indeed misleading when you increase duration. For example my burn says 3 3/4 seconds when indeed it ticks 4 times over 4 seconds.

the tooltips do not take every duration increase into account

That’s what I thought.