Guild Wars 2

Brutaly.6257:

Read what blasino wrote, just like me he has actually been in game and tested it and you dont need traits to make it more powerful compared to the old SoS. 16s swiftness from one symbol with 20% boon duration, reaapply it 3 times while retreat is running adding 12s more. 28s swiftness from one symbol with. 26+15=41s with 50% boon duration with one symbol.

You can reapply it 3 times during retreat for an additional 12 seconds of switness with 0% boon duration..

Whats changed is the way you use it and you dont have to trait it for it to be very good.

Do i personally like the change, no i dont but that dont make it a nerf.

There are several problems with your assertion here….

1) Having to bring retreat is a tie down. In order to make the symbol useful you have to use another skill to augment it (a skill which I might add is pretty sub par unless you trait pure of voice and superior aria more tie downs…)

2) 20% boon duration increase on 4 seconds of swiftness is 4/5 of a second added. And to do that you have to spend 20 trait points? Yeah that seems like a fair trade….

3) You have to trait writ of exaltation in order to get the two ticks while running through the symbol without stopping; yet another trait tie down to make this skill useful….

4) Your calculation isn’t taking into account the need for stopping in your symbol if you don’t have writ of exaltation traited. The time you spend stop is lost movement time which negates some of the swiftness you gain.

In other words do the math and think about this stuff before you blindly say it is a buff. If 95% of the guards in the game are posting complaining about it being a nerf, and you are one of the 5% that doesn’t understand how it is in fact a nerf, you might want to think about why that is….

Zerole.7306:

It’s only a nerf when you have no other source of swiftness. In all other cases, its a hefty buff, allowing you to stack swiftness duration.

That said, I don’t see anything terrible in this patch. Nothing great, but nothing that breaks my guardian.

Spot on.

Brutaly.6257:

perma swiftness with 50% boon duration is now possible with staff and retreat alone.

I have 100% uptime on swiftness with 5% boon duration with two shouts and staff, totally untraited.

So what you are saying is that your build in particular got nerfed.

Where the heck are you getting your numbers? You can’t have 50% boon duration from traits…. You can get 30% max… In other words I’m calling BS on your 100% swiftness.

Everyone here can tell that you are making this up, so stop while you are behind.

I’m moving faster then before. I don’t run boon duration.

Maybe its symbol placement? I place it right in the front of my feet, run to the other edge and stand one more second (maybe slightly longer) to get another 4 seconds before plodding ahead.

Btw, how about those spirit weapons!

Brutaly.6257:

Maladon.5760:

If you trait larger symbols you can’t trait 2 hand mastery which means you can’t cast SoS as often as you did before.

you dont need larger symbols for it to be better. And ofc you can trait both as long as your not into shouts and if you are into shouts you have 100% uptime with shouts and staff with 5% boon duration with no symbol traits ofc.

Before the patch I had 100% uptime with staff alone. It’s a nerf, period.

eleshazar.6902:

Brutaly.6257:

Read what blasino wrote, just like me he has actually been in game and tested it and you dont need traits to make it more powerful compared to the old SoS. 16s swiftness from one symbol with 20% boon duration, reaapply it 3 times while retreat is running adding 12s more. 28s swiftness from one symbol with. 26+15=41s with 50% boon duration with one symbol.

You can reapply it 3 times during retreat for an additional 12 seconds of switness with 0% boon duration..

Whats changed is the way you use it and you dont have to trait it for it to be very good.

Do i personally like the change, no i dont but that dont make it a nerf.

There are several problems with your assertion here….

1) Having to bring retreat is a tie down. In order to make the symbol useful you have to use another skill to augment it (a skill which I might add is pretty sub par unless you trait pure of voice and superior aria more tie downs…)

2) 20% boon duration increase on 4 seconds of swiftness is 4/5 of a second added. And to do that you have to spend 20 trait points? Yeah that seems like a fair trade….

3) You have to trait writ of exaltation in order to get the two ticks while running through the symbol without stopping; yet another trait tie down to make this skill useful….

4) Your calculation isn’t taking into account the need for stopping in your symbol if you don’t have writ of exaltation traited. The time you spend stop is lost movement time which negates some of the swiftness you gain.

In other words do the math and think about this stuff before you blindly say it is a buff. If 95% of the guards in the game are posting complaining about it being a nerf, and you are one of the 5% that doesn’t understand how it is in fact a nerf, you might want to think about why that is….

But you haven’t really done any math here either…

I mean you could be absolutely right, but a pot calling a kettle black…

eleshazar.6902:

Brutaly.6257:

Read what blasino wrote, just like me he has actually been in game and tested it and you dont need traits to make it more powerful compared to the old SoS. 16s swiftness from one symbol with 20% boon duration, reaapply it 3 times while retreat is running adding 12s more. 28s swiftness from one symbol with. 26+15=41s with 50% boon duration with one symbol.

You can reapply it 3 times during retreat for an additional 12 seconds of switness with 0% boon duration..

Whats changed is the way you use it and you dont have to trait it for it to be very good.

Do i personally like the change, no i dont but that dont make it a nerf.

There are several problems with your assertion here….

1) Having to bring retreat is a tie down. In order to make the symbol useful you have to use another skill to augment it (a skill which I might add is pretty sub par unless you trait pure of voice and superior aria more tie downs…)

2) 20% boon duration increase on 4 seconds of swiftness is 4/5 of a second added. And to do that you have to spend 20 trait points? Yeah that seems like a fair trade….

3) You have to trait writ of exaltation in order to get the two ticks while running through the symbol without stopping; yet another trait tie down to make this skill useful….

4) Your calculation isn’t taking into account the need for stopping in your symbol if you don’t have writ of exaltation traited. The time you spend stop is lost movement time which negates some of the swiftness you gain.

In other words do the math and think about this stuff before you blindly say it is a buff. If 95% of the guards in the game are posting complaining about it being a nerf, and you are one of the 5% that doesn’t understand how it is in fact a nerf, you might want to think about why that is….

Im in WvW right now and having perma swiftness with 5% boon duration and no traits in symbols at all. Running a standard AH 0/5/30/30/5 with soldier runes. which was impossible before the patch.

And i dont stop in my symbol to pick up extra ticks.

instead of finding the shortcomings in stuff i try to find whats good and i just had to change my load out and it became a buff.

im not basing my posts on math, i base it on being in game doing stuff.

EDIT: The same build was tested with 50% boon duration and staff and retreat alone. Works great.

I’m not going to respond on the SoS change, doesn’t really concern me. it’s good in WvW, and in PvE I only need swiftness to myself for exploring, so then I run retreat.

I’m going to respond to people who think this doesn’t help dps guards, because I think you’re all being blind to other builds than the accepted dps Builds, one comment in particular being annoyed about it and saying Jon should run a 30/30/x/x/x build and see how it doesn’t work.

The main changes for dps in these patch notes: Retributive Armour gives 2% more, Zealous Blade heals more, a Meditation Heal.

So, with 3k+ armour, the toughness you have will now (without any precision gear, but using master maintenance oil) will give you nearly 30% crit chance. You’re greatsword attacks will now heal for half the health of virtue or resolve while wearing a few pieces of celestiel (hp then boosted by trait choices) and with meditations treated you can now have a heal that: heals straight off for 3.8k+/gives you 4sec+ of fury/ healing you for damage you do (which is being boosted by fury!) You’re sword focus builds might not have been boosted, but go run a gs/h or gs/s meditation build. And laugh at everyone who can’t kill you and get’s burst down for over half their health, then a few seconds later as you heal all the way back to full, by bursting them down once more with whirling wrath.

Today is a good day to be a Guardian. Anyone that can’t see the changs in dps, needs to use some imagination!

Brutaly.6257:

People exagerate. This isnt the end of the world.

Did they add useless stuff, yes they did.

Did the offensive guardian need more dps, in sword in particular, no it didnt.

Is kindled zeal still useless, yes it is.

Was the change to Sos a nerf, no it wasnt. In most scenarios its a buff and in some a huge buff. The fact is its only in one scenario its a nerf when you have no other mean of swiftness, you havent traited larger symbols and dont have time to stand still in the symbol for approx 0,2 seconds.

Did we know that the preview wouldnt change to release, yes we did. At last if you read what Anet previously posted about their development cycle and the time frame they need to alter stuff in that cycle.

The only thing we should be upset about is the fact that Jon peters clearly stated:
1. we didnt have the full picture and there was more to come than the part the posted in the preview. Clearly the preview was the entire patch so there was no big picture and this is a bit worrying.
2. He recognizes that the offensive guardian isnt in a good position and they want to address that and yet do nothing in the patch to fix it. We dont need more condition damage and more damage to 1h sword, what we needed was working spirit weapons, more utilities in zeal in particular, fix of our signets and working symbol builds.

What we got actually mostly addressed the defensive traitlines and the defensive guardian setups.

One might hope that Jon actually trait a 30/30/x/x/x with full berserker and go into wvw/pvp and try to make it work.

Its not doom and gloom, certainly. But its disappointing that it seems the promise of a power guardian was a over statement. With key issues like mobility and lack of cc not addressed it makes their idea of a dps based guardian just a fantasy. And of course I’m speaking in regards to pvp.

I was actually hoping the heal would be good, but shelter is still the best option the class has.

@benbe well bring that build of yours into tpvp and we can try it out. I go 0 points in zeal ofc but full berserker and we see how it adds up.

Any build works in spvp and wvw since 90% of the people in there cant play. That doesnt make it a valid build. Any competitive opponent will avoid 90% of your ww, frankly i dont remember the last time i got hit by ww in tpvp..

The whole idea with zealous blade is absurd. First you need 20 points to get it and after investing in 200 power you need to add healing power (loosing power in gear) to make it strong enough and at the same time loose out on utility you could grab in honor/virtues and dressing up in a more offensive setup to compensate for not investing in zeal.

Why not bring more utility, more fire power and more survivability.

You mix up having fun with being competitive. Hell i run 30/30/x/x/x from time to time and also 30/5/30/x/x and i kill a lot of stuff but that doesnt make the build good. Just fun.

Hmm…currently in my healaway build but will re-trait to 20/0/30/15/5 and see how it goes. Won’t be able to until later but I think my main issue is that it seems they ask a question or start a dialog but let it fall on deaf ears.

Or, they will use the data at a later time but either way there was a initial request for dialog then the sound of silence

Generally worthless changes that haven’t made a bit of positive difference.

Shattered Aegis is a laughable joke, seriously 300 base damage for losing Aegis with 240 range… at least the old 2s burn effect would proc on a max range attacker!
Kindled Zeal is pointless, we don’t have a viable condi PvP build.
Supreme Justice isn’t worth 20 points in Virtues when it competes against Absolute Resolution in this easy mode bunker condition spam game ArenaNet appear to be driving towards.

The new heal is some nice flavour, but that’s it. It’s too slow for a DPS orientated heal.

They’ve changed Symbol of Swiftness to make it measurably worse, as if the profession with the least mobility actually needed even less.

They requested feedback, promised to come and continue the discussion with us about Radiance X and then all we got was complete silence for weeks, all the while various better ideas were created by the community, and then they went ahead and implemented their original idea anyway, a buff that wasn’t needed and wasn’t asked for…

This game is going no where with development like this.
There is a complete and utter disconnect between development and the community.

I’m not thrilled or disappointed with the changes … we knew about them for months. But …

Dear Anet,

You had reservations for increasing to10% damage increase in Radiance 20. YOu approached the community, which offered an honest discussion, yet in the end, you just implemented the original idea in the first place? Can you provide some closure on why ideas that even you question as useful are being implemented for this class?

Sincerely,

Confused over weak decisions.

Blasino.3128:

eleshazar.6902:

Brutaly.6257:

Read what blasino wrote, just like me he has actually been in game and tested it and you dont need traits to make it more powerful compared to the old SoS. 16s swiftness from one symbol with 20% boon duration, reaapply it 3 times while retreat is running adding 12s more. 28s swiftness from one symbol with. 26+15=41s with 50% boon duration with one symbol.

You can reapply it 3 times during retreat for an additional 12 seconds of switness with 0% boon duration..

Whats changed is the way you use it and you dont have to trait it for it to be very good.

Do i personally like the change, no i dont but that dont make it a nerf.

There are several problems with your assertion here….

1) Having to bring retreat is a tie down. In order to make the symbol useful you have to use another skill to augment it (a skill which I might add is pretty sub par unless you trait pure of voice and superior aria more tie downs…)

2) 20% boon duration increase on 4 seconds of swiftness is 4/5 of a second added. And to do that you have to spend 20 trait points? Yeah that seems like a fair trade….

3) You have to trait writ of exaltation in order to get the two ticks while running through the symbol without stopping; yet another trait tie down to make this skill useful….

4) Your calculation isn’t taking into account the need for stopping in your symbol if you don’t have writ of exaltation traited. The time you spend stop is lost movement time which negates some of the swiftness you gain.

In other words do the math and think about this stuff before you blindly say it is a buff. If 95% of the guards in the game are posting complaining about it being a nerf, and you are one of the 5% that doesn’t understand how it is in fact a nerf, you might want to think about why that is….

But you haven’t really done any math here either…

I mean you could be absolutely right, but a pot calling a kettle black…

Alright here is the math for you (and I eluded to it in my post by showing you how useless boon duration is in the equation)

Untraited without retreat
Before change:
Cast SoS directly in front of you. You proc exactly one time for this placement if you do not stop running.
Result = 8s of swiftness, SoS goes on 15 second cooldown.
8 seconds of swiftness for ever 15 seconds = 54% uptime

After Change:
Cast symbol of swiftness directly in front of you. You proc exactly one time for this placement if you don’t stop running (yes I’ve tested extensively).
Result = 4s seconds of swiftness, SoS goes on 15 second cooldown.
4 seconds swiftness for every 15 seconds = 26% swiftness uptime

Untraited with retreat
Before Change:
Time mark 0s: Cast SoS, proc 8s swift 15s cooldown on SoS (8s swift)
Time mark 1s: Cast Retreat, proc 20s of swiftness, 60s cooldown on Retreat (7s+20s=27s swift)
Time mark 27s: Cast SoS after swiftness wear off, proc 8s swift, 15s cooldown (8s swift)
Time mark 35s: Lose Swift
Time mark 42s: Cast SoS, proc 8s swift, 15s cooldown (8s swift)
Time mark 50s: Lose Swift
Time mark 57: Can now repeat cycle with SoS then retreat
Result = 43s swift out of 57s = 75% uptime

After change:
Time mark 0s: Cast SoS proc 1x for 4s swift, 15sec cooldown on SoS (4s swift)
Time mark 1s: Cast retreat for 20s swift goes on 60sec cd (3+20 = 23s swift)
Time mark 16s: Cast Sos proc 1x for 4s swift, 15 sec cd (7s + 4 = 11s swift)
Time mark 27s: Lose Swift
Time mark 31s: Cast Sos 1x for 4s swift, 15 sec cd (4s swift)
Time mark 35s: Lose Swift
Time mark 46s: Cast Sos 1x for 4s swift, 15 sec cd (4s swift)
Time mark 50s: Lose Swift
Time mark 60s: Recast Retreat etc.
Result = 34s swift out of 60s = 56% uptime

There you go. If you are assuming that we aren’t going to tie down ourselves in traits like Anet says they want to avoid then there are the numbers. Even if you are ok with being forced to bring retreat, the numbers still show that you are worse off now than you were before.

Happy Guarding guys…..

P.S Has the balance team never heard of a Gantt chart before?! And they say they are computer scientists…..

Alright, after playing about 10 matches of Tpvp, I can honestly say that Lithany of Wrath has to be one of the worst healing skills I’ve ever seen. It’s too easily countered, the base heal is probably the smallest of any healing in the game, it has a long cast time and you’re giving this heal to a profession which has enough trouble sticking to their target to do any meaningful damage.

Brutaly.6257:

Was the change to Sos a nerf, no it wasnt. In most scenarios its a buff and in some a huge buff. The fact is its only in one scenario its a nerf when you have no other mean of swiftness, you havent traited larger symbols and dont have time to stand still in the symbol for approx 0,2 seconds.

It is a huge nerf for the most simple case, burst swiftness in wvw. And it is clear this change was made to accompany group swiftness stacking via colabration, or for plain zerging. Playing around with traits in honor to get a bigger symbol already hurts a line that is already quite restrict in options. Fact is it was great to have that 1 proper mobility on a weapon, and not have to allocate traits and utility skills for it. And that was not even enough to get perma swiftness, you needed 30 in virtues and either runes or boon duration food to get there.
The second you start playing with utility skills and traits, guardian condi removal and sustain healing start going all wrong.
The few of us who are actually relying on staff for ourselves are stuck altering our movement to gain what we had before and for what?
Test your swiftness in a fight, suddenly that extra pulse starts getting much harder to obtain, and missing it will prob cost you the kill or your life.
Worst thing is we got no alternative to this change, retreat still on a way to high cooldown, but there will always be the guys promoting teleporting to bunnies for movement.
Fact is guardian has become a crippled class that is only relevant as support and with support.

Arken.3725:

Alright, after playing about 10 matches of Tpvp, I can honestly say that Lithany of Wrath has to be one of the worst healing skills I’ve ever seen. It’s too easily countered, the base heal is probably the smallest of any healing in the game, it has a long cast time and you’re giving this heal to a profession which has enough trouble sticking to their target to do any meaningful damage.

Bingo!

Warrior and Guardian should get their new healing skills switched.

eleshazar.6902:

What happens if you stand still in it for 1.5 seconds? That should give you 12 seconds of swiftness.

The only way to truly compare it is if you know distance covered w/o swiftness. Which is 300 u/s.

After seeing the lacklustre notes, 6 weeks ago, and the complete lack of attention from the Dev’s our class was recieving discussion wise, I really lost interest in playing. Haven’t logged in in a month.

If the Dev’s are not not interested in Guardian, why should I be?

I am not saying Guardian is bad and needs massive buffs, but it clearly is not going to have many of its annoyances, and in some cases issues, looked at in a meaningful way by this set of Dev’s. They just don’t care.

Get into the game.

The fact is that you have perma swiftness with 5% boon duration, with staff and two shouts.

And you dont have to trait a single point or wait in the symbols to achieve it. This wasnt possible pre patch and ofc the staff has more group support as well.

Those are facts!

if people chose to see upon it as a nerf, well that is their choice. To me it works better than ever since i play in small groups and we always have a secondary source of swiftness.

Brutaly.6257:

Get into the game.

The fact is that you have perma swiftness with 5% boon duration, with staff and two shouts.

And you dont have to trait a single point or wait in the symbols to achieve it. This wasnt possible pre patch and ofc the staff has more group support as well.

Those are facts!

if people chose to see upon it as a nerf, well that is their choice. To me it works better than ever since i play in small groups and we always have a secondary source of swiftness.

And there is your bingo! You play in groups where others are helping you out.

By the way, your argument is a logical fallacy of False/Single Authority….
“Those are facts!”

Brutaly.6257:

Get into the game.

The fact is that you have perma swiftness with 5% boon duration, with staff and two shouts.

And you dont have to trait a single point or wait in the symbols to achieve it. This wasnt possible pre patch and ofc the staff has more group support as well.

Those are facts!

if people chose to see upon it as a nerf, well that is their choice. To me it works better than ever since i play in small groups and we always have a secondary source of swiftness.

Requirement to use retreat and save yourself makes it nerf.

His point is valid … what is the value in playing in groups that don’t all help each other out? If you aren’t, no buff or different SoS is going to matter. Changes to SoS are actually good because they ENCOURAGE good group behaviour. In otherwords, it separates people that know what to do from people that just mash buttons. It’s a skill-separator.

daros.3407:

Brutaly.6257:

Get into the game.

The fact is that you have perma swiftness with 5% boon duration, with staff and two shouts.

And you dont have to trait a single point or wait in the symbols to achieve it. This wasnt possible pre patch and ofc the staff has more group support as well.

Those are facts!

if people chose to see upon it as a nerf, well that is their choice. To me it works better than ever since i play in small groups and we always have a secondary source of swiftness.

Requirement to use retreat and save yourself makes it nerf.

^^exactly! I don’t want to use Retreat and especially SY for swiftness. It was not necessary till now. I can’t understand why people deny the obvious..meh

daros.3407:

Requirement to use retreat and save yourself makes it nerf.

And you didnt have perma swiftness prepatch without those either unless fully focused on boon duration. Forcing 30 points in virtues and 45% boon duration from runes and not even then would you have 100% uptime due to how bad it stacked when reapplied.

The fact is that you can run for longer periods of time now when using shouts or having a secondary source of swiftness in your team..

Obtena.7952:

His point is valid … what is the value in playing in groups that don’t all help each other out? If you aren’t, no buff or different SoS is going to matter. Changes to SoS are actually good because they ENCOURAGE good group behaviour. In otherwords, it separates people that know what to do from people that just mash buttons. It’s a skill-separator.

Spot on. Its a better team tool now. At its just great when the team huddles up to stack might before an attack. 20 s of swiftness and 12 stacks of might in 3 seconds, yes please.

Brutaly.6257:

daros.3407:

Brutaly.6257:

Get into the game.

The fact is that you have perma swiftness with 5% boon duration, with staff and two shouts.

And you dont have to trait a single point or wait in the symbols to achieve it. This wasnt possible pre patch and ofc the staff has more group support as well.

Those are facts!

if people chose to see upon it as a nerf, well that is their choice. To me it works better than ever since i play in small groups and we always have a secondary source of swiftness.

Requirement to use retreat and save yourself makes it nerf.

^^exactly! I don’t want to use Retreat and especially SY for swiftness. It was not necessary till now. I can’t understand why people deny the obvious..meh

How did you achieve perma swiftness prepatch?

The only time its worse is in soloplay with no shouts. But why would you use staff in solo play to begin with.-

Guardian does not need better team tools, we are great as it is in a team.
We need the comfort other classes have with being on our own from time to time, without having to do workarounds. This is a complete revamp of a skill majority of guardians rely on for many builds and situations, and it is now restrictive.
guardian is so hungry for a weapon based mobility people use staff mainly and just for the symbol for the quick move., and learn to do best with rest of skills.
I dont want to switch utilities to run around lions arch, or stand still in a symbol every 8 seconds, its not fun, just want to run with swiftness.

Brutaly.6257:

daros.3407:

Requirement to use retreat and save yourself makes it nerf.

And you didnt have perma swiftness prepatch without those either unless fully focused on boon duration. Forcing 30 points in virtues and 45% boon duration from runes and not even then would you have 100% uptime due to how bad it stacked when reapplied.

The fact is that you can run for longer periods of time now when using shouts or having a secondary source of swiftness in your team..

Obtena.7952:

His point is valid … what is the value in playing in groups that don’t all help each other out? If you aren’t, no buff or different SoS is going to matter. Changes to SoS are actually good because they ENCOURAGE good group behaviour. In otherwords, it separates people that know what to do from people that just mash buttons. It’s a skill-separator.

Spot on. Its a better team tool now. At its just great when the team huddles up to stack might before an attack. 20 s of swiftness and 12 stacks of might in 3 seconds, yes please.

Brutaly.6257:

daros.3407:

Brutaly.6257:

Get into the game.

The fact is that you have perma swiftness with 5% boon duration, with staff and two shouts.

And you dont have to trait a single point or wait in the symbols to achieve it. This wasnt possible pre patch and ofc the staff has more group support as well.

Those are facts!

if people chose to see upon it as a nerf, well that is their choice. To me it works better than ever since i play in small groups and we always have a secondary source of swiftness.

Requirement to use retreat and save yourself makes it nerf.

^^exactly! I don’t want to use Retreat and especially SY for swiftness. It was not necessary till now. I can’t understand why people deny the obvious..meh

How did you achieve perma swiftness prepatch?

The only time its worse is in soloplay with no shouts. But why would you use staff in solo play to begin with.-

I use it in wvw. For solo exploration, its just an annoying change that I can live with I guess and use Retreat instead. In WvW I play staff and I have the other useful shouts that are truly needed for group play plus SoJ for extra retaliation and and touch of extra toughness, but ofc not SY. With 20 in Virtues and 2 handed mastery I had a nice 9,6 (or so) seconds swiftness out of 12 seconds recharge. Not perma but quite close. You know you must run from one side to the other occasionally, while re spawning or run to avoid death (or die trying at least). And at that times usually you are in combat and can’t change utilities. Now I have a 4 seconds swiftness, which using it in panic mode, will get me nowhere. You don’t have always a warrior by your side to use his warhorn ya know…

I honestly believe this was the wrong direction to make DPS Guardians more viable in pvp.

Just tried SoS in game. Horrible, horrible change. They’ve taken an ability that was somewhat functional and made it so bad that you now have to rely on other abilities or even other players to get back to pre-patch functionality. If that’s not a nerf then nerfs just don’t exist.

Brutaly.6257:

daros.3407:

Requirement to use retreat and save yourself makes it nerf.

And you didnt have perma swiftness prepatch without those either unless fully focused on boon duration. Forcing 30 points in virtues and 45% boon duration from runes and not even then would you have 100% uptime due to how bad it stacked when reapplied.

The fact is that you can run for longer periods of time now when using shouts or having a secondary source of swiftness in your team..

I didnt have perma swiftness and i didnt need it. SoS served me as speed buff, not perma but it was usefull. Now it is 50% less effective. It is huge nerf for me.
The fact is most guardians dont have builds focused on mobility like you. And using secondary source for switness or shouts to improve mobility is focusing on mobility.
Most of guardians just used SoS to improve their mobility without sacrificing anything. Now to improve mobility we have to sacrifice much.

Yuck.. So much whining. I guess not a lot of people saw this coming when the patch preview was posted a month ago.

xFireize.6318:

Yuck.. So much whining. I guess not a lot of people saw this coming when the patch preview was posted a month ago.

No we did just look at preview topic. But John P. just ignored ever post about it. If he wouldn’t maybe there would be no ,,whining"…

xFireize.6318:

Yuck.. So much whining. I guess not a lot of people saw this coming when the patch preview was posted a month ago.

Pretty sure everyone saw this coming judging by all the feedback that was given (and ignored)

xFireize.6318:

Yuck.. So much whining. I guess not a lot of people saw this coming when the patch preview was posted a month ago.

Actually, we saw it and we provided a lot of feedback regarding especially this specific nerf. Endless pages of requests of not changing the SoS. Dev team, went with the first plan, without considering the feedback though. So why are you jumping to assumptions?

It just doesn’t seem like the feedback given is actually being taken seriously. What’s the point of putting out notes ahead of time and asking for feedback and not change a single thing?

^^ I hate to say it but, yeah. Especially since Anet made a specific effort to get that feedback for Rad 20 sword buff thinking they were going down the wrong path with it. I can’t really understand why they would do that.

I guess a good question is … did they change any of their ideas for other professions based on player feedback? If not, I don’t feel as let down but if they did …

Traveller’s runes ftw.
Unfortunately, anet have said they want to diversify builds via runes and sigils.
Eg condi guard may want to use runes / sigil of torment.

Nah.

I keep getting the feeling that they can’t test this stuff in the real world of the game or something, like healing power….something tells them that 50 heal per GS attack is a lot….when your taking 2-3k hits…..what is 50 going to do? we can be defensive of course but sure as hell can’t hit anything to kill it heh.

I honestly think they test it against a ….I dunno all this talk about OP guardians confuses me.

fadeaway.2807:

Traveller’s runes ftw.
Unfortunately, anet have said they want to diversify builds via runes and sigils.
Eg condi guard may want to use runes / sigil of torment.

Nah.

It’s funny they want to diversify builds but do the opposite by making specific weapons preferred for certain builds.

daros.3407:

xFireize.6318:

Yuck.. So much whining. I guess not a lot of people saw this coming when the patch preview was posted a month ago.

No we did just look at preview topic. But John P. just ignored ever post about it. If he wouldn’t maybe there would be no ,,whining"…

I don’t think he honestly ignored it. But I am willing to bet the change was already in the code and he was just taking the pulse of the community. Sort of like not wanting to admit you are wrong.

I mean honestly, do you want to hear your child is ugly? Am I right? Everyone says their baby is the most beautiful thing on the planet yet we all know that isn’t true. I mean has a figure of speech, I’m not calling anyone’s children ugly has we are all God’s creatures

If that was the case, why did he even approach the community asking if ‘his child was ugly’?

Not like I’m going to get it, but I would love an explanation/summary of what they did with the feedback we gave them because it didn’t seem to influence changes for this patch … even though we were DIRECTLY solicited for that feedback with the guise it could change things going into this patch.

Never forget, us forum posters are the minority and clueless when it comes to the Guardian Meta.

So it’s be said, so the dev’s enforce it.

What
a
Joke….. 333 Damage for Shattered Aegis: STUPID. Straight up, STUPID>

One tick of Retaliation almost trumps it.

Obtena.7952:

If that was the case, why did he even approach the community asking if ‘his child was ugly’?

Not like I’m going to get it, but I would love an explanation/summary of what they did with the feedback we gave them because it didn’t seem to influence changes for this patch … even though we were DIRECTLY solicited for that feedback with the guise it could change things going into this patch.

I can’t even begin to think why they would bother asking for feedback but didn’t listen to a thing anyone said.

One thing that is very clear that I understand about the class, is they are not suppose to dps what so ever. Anet even clearly stated this.

I think this is why I’m disappointed by the patch. Since they stated that they felt this would be the emergence of the power guardian. But this isn’t truthful at all. Its impossible for a power guardian to exist without significant changes to the class. None of which I see happening. I feel the class is much more enjoyable when you just play it the way they intended, heals and support with damage coming in last.

Obtena.7952:

If that was the case, why did he even approach the community asking if ‘his child was ugly’?

If I had to guess I’d say just to get a pulse. If the code was set in play or the patch it may have been too little too late with too much data (our response, thoughts, ideas, comments, or feedback) for them to actually do anything.

That is about the only thing I think could have possibly happened. Ask a question, take the pulse, then collect the data and review it. It may take time, but at least they have it and may use it down the road. I don’t have anything else. I mean I went back and read some of the initial discussion in his post and most people flat out said bad idea why not think of X, Y, or Zed…

Crapgame.6519:

Zed…

lol, canadians!

Just poke’n at ya, lived there for 13 years. Wife and kids are Canadian.

hmmm. regarding the SoS nerf / buff, i think there will always be people who think it’s a nerf, regardless. and there will be people who see it as a buff. reason being? we’re all self-centered. it’s all “I” didn’t have to do this before, now “I” have to. not taking a jab at at anyone in particular, because i do it myself, i just find in interesting seeing how people react to things. and i think it’s GREAT there’s a lot of discussion going on on how to adapt and learn to use the “new” skill. but… this is just a little reminder for those out there getting worked up – don’t. take. things. personally. especially on the interwebz. it really helps. anyhoo..

onto the patch. i haven’t gotten in game to test yet (o how i wish i could..) the proposed changes i didn’t mind so much. really, nothing going on again for Guards. i don’t mind the SoS change (because id on’t use it.. see how that works, now? ; ))) ). sword change? not needed. will i HAVE to play sword now? nope. will try it. but i will play mace or scepter when i want to.

i have builds that go past 10 or even 15 in Zeal. but am i going in for the GS trait? nope. still not worth it imo. retributive armor is a nice small buff. though if i am in valor i am 30 deep and i will be playing meditations as well.

aaand.. shattered aegis. never had high hopes.. but.. the damage… is.. so.. pitiful. so there are definitely some changes that i don’t understand at all.

i think my biggest disappointment was when they came in and asked us for feedback on the proposed changes, and specifically on sword damage buff.. and what we see here is EXACTLY the same as what we saw.. a few months ago was it?

to be fair, they never gave us a hard deadline.. but i guess it was the matter of a glimmer of hope that thigns COULD change. like somenoe else said.. perhaps… if they had come to us for “suggestions and feedback” a a YEAR or 6 moths before this patch and actually ahd time to work it into the patch then sure. OR when they came to us, state that these suggestions probably won’t make it into dec 10 patch, but we’re looknig long term and want to hear from you guys going forward, it woulda been a different story. i blame myself for thinking that the suggestions that SO MANY poured their mind and hearts into, were sseemingly nto even considered for this patch.

now id on’t know how long it takes to decide no changes, review them, implement changes, test them (wait do they test them??) and what not… but perhaps if they had been more clear with their intentions and timeline.. meh.

o well. Guards’ll always be resilient and adapt. i haven’t even thought of spending time on other classes. even with this patch. i am still looking forward to playing my Guard and will just keep having to learn and adapt.

aaaaaaand lastly… anyone try out the new heal skill yet? utterly disappoitned that it isn’t instant as other medis’. that was the biggest potential for me. o well.

Yeah, honestly I am looking to jump ship at this point. We still have no choices outside of AH/healway in group play. And once again, 95% of these changes did nothing, Shattered aegis is horrible and still not worth it, even in group setting. Had they given us the numbers like they said they would, we could have told them that. The 5% boost in the sword trait went through, despite ALOT of feedback on it, and even jon saying that it was a lackluster buff. SoS nerf/buff well… depends on gameplay so i call that one as even. Kindled zeal is still horrible, Zealous blade still isn’t worth it, because who in their right minds uses healing power in a build with 20 zeal. Let alone the fact that if you switch off GS you lose all healing from it. The heal, from everything I have heard, is horrible for any type of pvp as well. 1s cast for a crappy heal, then 5s to do damage, which at any point if you are CCed it was completely wasted. Oh and Also just to add some more stuff in, Perplexity still hasn’t been nerfed at all, so thieves and engineers can still rejoice!

Another who knows how many months before our next big lead up to nothing, I am looking so forward to it.

don’t leave us, Bash! : (((

Guardians.. k-keep.. fighting.. the good.. fight.

I stopped caring when I saw the official preview thread was closed after a few days. I don’t know why a lot of people still gave a lot of feedbacks after the official thread was closed. The feedbacks in there weren’t listened why would you think the unofficial one would be? The garbage changes and the fact that they didn’t come up with ANY Spirit Weapons solutions clearly told me they don’t know much the guardian situation. That’s the reason I didn’t get my hopes up about the patch.

eleshazar.6902:

Farzo.8410:

styx.7294:

Farzo.8410:

Hello.

Is there a way to hide from profession changes in the future? Like, lock my profession the way it is now?

I’m scared, and I don’t want to reroll a Mesmer, Thief, Necromancer or a Warrior in the future.

You do realize most of the numbers went up (just not as much as anyone wanted to). I mean, one handed sword bonus damage doubled.

I don’t see myself ever traiting into Radiance.

Exactly. Increasing damage on a weapon that isn’t that great dps wise in a line that no guard worth his beans traits into…. Scepter/torch offers far more dps than sword/anything combo and more mobility (don’t have to stand still). So good job on giving us a near useless change. There is a reason almost every guard runs 0/0/30/30/10.

in PVE going 0/0/30/30/10 is uselesssss….. in wvw I can see it being useful however several guards that roam run 30 into valor for the meditations then put the other 40 points elsewhere.