Guild Wars 2

Wow, you’re a little behind today aren’t you … Empowering might isn’t honor 30 or PoV.

I made my post before you edited yours and you seemed to be poking fun at guardians putting points in to honour so I gave you a DPS-related reason why it’s used.

Which is my point that when people invest 30 points in honor that is the main reason, HP, since there are other and just as good solutions to add support/utility and dps in other lines.

Whether there are other ways to add utility or not are irrelevant, honour is not taken as a HP cushion. If the inspiration traits on my mesmer were all in illusions, I’d just run 30 in illusions because I don’t care about gaining 300 vitality and 300 healing power.

Why not 10/25/0/10/25 and you have all the support in the world, higher dps, shorter cd on that one crucial shout, SyG, traited consecrations for max might stacking when needed and you can swap superior aria for larger symbol for max symbol dps on moving targets or longer lasting symbols on stationary targets. Just an example of a much more group centric build with higher dps.

Maybe it’s worth testing then. I’d be willing to help myself if you’re in EU and I actually had access to a non-terrible computer.

Marginally, since the aoe is just tiny small. The team virtually has to be in the area of a symbol for it to hit. Its only in full out melee fights where this trait ever shine. Its 1-3 stacks on the team and approx 3 on you.

Players are plenty capable of sticking in the guardian’s hammer symbol, EM will be just fine to get stacks off of.

ofc its relevant if you can add better utility and more dps by moving points into other lines.

Either people invest in honor because:

1. They dont know better and actually think its the best dps options, its been marketed so for a very long time and people might have bought it.
2. They need the HP cushion/survuvability the line offers
3. They desperately need PoV of because of some obscure reason.
4. Or a combination of the 3.

regarding EM, i described a test in this thread i have done with my tpvp teammates in fractals and i can tell you before that test i had the exact same opinion as you, that it was great and a must. But i realized it was mere an opinion and havent used it ever after that, not even in my frontline pusher build.

Fraps and encounter and set the team up so you are the only one giving out might and watch the clip and se how many stacks you have in average on the team.

But frankly it doesnt matter, traited consecrations with 25% boon duration outshines Em any day of the week as a complimentary might stacker.

i’d like to think that if you’re running full zerkers, and playing with a hammer a 15/x/x/20/x build could potentially do a lot of damage. vuln on longer lasting symbols sounds pretty sexy to me. i’d put at least 10 in Virtues as well for Consecrations. more might stacking, no? as well as condi clear, or stability, or both, depending on the fights. just make sure to drop the fire fields first, get them blasted and then you go nuts on your symbols. and then probs at least 10 in Radiance for Blind Exposure, more vuln stacking and i’d run sword/focus on my offset. so that’s 3 blinds incl. VoJ so that gives you 9 stacks of vuln and then on hammer, not sure if it’s still bugged but if so, you get 2 stacks on the first hit the symbol drops and then 1 stack per pulse for 3s thereafter, lasting for 4 seconds traited. the dmg adds up over time.

argubly, not the HIGHEST DPS build by any means. but for someone who enjoys hammer, it doesn’t sound too bad. just a thought. : )) though of course, you’re not maximizing your sword DPS by going 30 Radiance.

yeah I used to go 10/25/0/20/10, I used blind exposure and burning last long for my major traits in radiance. The sustained damage is really nice along with the vul stacking. a little weak on condition removal though

burning last longer, the torch trait? does it affect all burning that we inflict? i always thought it was only from the torch skills XDD [edit: snap, just checked wiki, it does say ALL burning!]

true, not much condition removal to be had at all. if it’s needed in any given dungeon, for example, i’d always make sure the group i’m in has group wide AoE condi removal. if not, then i’ll have to spec for it personally to be on the safe side.

On average I use empowering might and can consistently keep about twelve stacks on my teammates. I don’t know whether that helps or hinders Empowering Might’s argument… but that’s my anecdotal evidence to contribute.

Also… Since when is everybody NOT in an all-melee fight? I thought most people stopped using ranged attacks in most dungeons.

Wukunlin.8461:

I just want to point out that some dps groups used to run PoV on their dps guardians because the condi removal helps the team to maintain 90%+ health for scholar rune procs

Scholar runes are bad, desperate power <3.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Also… Since when is everybody NOT in an all-melee fight? I thought most people stopped using ranged attacks in most dungeons.

Some bosses in high levels fractals are harder to melee for a significant amount of people. Just like lupi was in 2012.

Oh, right, I meant to add “outside of fractals”. I don’t consider Fractals to be a part of Dungeons, myself. I can see why some people would, but I don’t personally.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Oh, right, I meant to add “outside of fractals”. I don’t consider Fractals to be a part of Dungeons, myself. I can see why some people would, but I don’t personally.

Technically they are mini-dungeons but dredges at 80 are no in world mini.

But there are still a lot of pugs not meleeing lupi for instance, even after ~10 months people started doing that.

Brutaly.6257:

ofc its relevant if you can add better utility and more dps by moving points into other lines.

Either people invest in honor because:

1. They dont know better and actually think its the best dps options, its been marketed so for a very long time and people might have bought it.
2. They need the HP cushion/survuvability the line offers
3. They desperately need PoV of because of some obscure reason.
4. Or a combination of the 3.

regarding EM, i described a test in this thread i have done with my tpvp teammates in fractals and i can tell you before that test i had the exact same opinion as you, that it was great and a must. But i realized it was mere an opinion and havent used it ever after that, not even in my frontline pusher build.

Fraps and encounter and set the team up so you are the only one giving out might and watch the clip and se how many stacks you have in average on the team.

But frankly it doesnt matter, traited consecrations with 25% boon duration outshines Em any day of the week as a complimentary might stacker.

Its not better utility in all situations though. Thats the point. I really like 10/25/0/10/25 but the standard skills I run around with are shouts. I swap them out if I need reflects or we have a LH ele. But for the most part i run with 3 shouts. Which im pretty sure is how most guards have their bar as standard. You can argue all you want but both builds have their merits and their disadvantages. Its preference. Do you want more dps but less condi removals or do you want more condi removals and slightly less dps. Its situational.

spoj.9672:

But for the most part i run with 3 shouts.

Which im pretty sure is how most guards have their bar as standard.

Its your choice but imo triple shouts isnt the best support you can carry for the team, especially since only one of them has any valuable impact on the team (stability) that other professions cant give out as well as a guardian.

I would say the opposite, any guardian with support as their main objective isnt carrying more than one shout in pve since there are much more powerful utilities in a low condi environment like pve/dungeons.

Hold the line= any competent team stack both boons so they never ever go down.
Retreat = same with swiftness. Aegis can be valuable though but very few can actually time it for the team.
Save your self = condi removal on the team, great utility and gets even better with 10 points in honor for cd and traited virtues to cleanse the guardian.

Imo this leave SY and SyG (and perhaps 50% of Retreat) and SyG already has condi removal which means in practice honor becomes a 30 point investment to get condiremoval in SyG and maybe retreat if you want the extra aeigs.

Imo a triple shout guardian is kind of poor support even though i see the merits of it in less skilled teams.

For condiremoval gs/whirl+ SY+purging flames+traited virtues out shines triple shouts any day of the weak when it comes to condi removal as well. But thats me.

Ok, I’ve been following the thread, but haven’t had anything to add (I generally run 0/0/30/30/10 AH build in wvw and dungeons – nothing to see here) but I’m curious what kind of trait/gear one would run with the 10/25/0/10/25 setup. Best I can tell from playing with it in gw2skills.net, you’re going to have no armour, and no health pool.

Am I missing something here, or are people seriously advocating full glass when the OP asked for a dungeon anchor build? Is it just that I pretty much always slot in full zerker stuff, and the intention is a mix of valk/zerk/cavalier?

EDIT: I’m asking because, on paper, as it were, the numbers from the 10/25/0/10/25 are no better than the build I run right now – same damage, same crit chance, far, far less armour and HP, and I’m seeing no mechanism for might stacking, outside of F1 on kill spam.

Second edit: I normally run with WoR,SyG and SY!/Retreat! Just not seeing the same utility with any of the other consecrations as I am out of the available shouts. Again, I’m probably missing something, which is why I’m asking.

stale.9785:

Ok, I’ve been following the thread, but haven’t had anything to add (I generally run 0/0/30/30/10 AH build in wvw and dungeons – nothing to see here) but I’m curious what kind of trait/gear one would run with the 10/25/0/10/25 setup. Best I can tell from playing with it in gw2skills.net, you’re going to have no armour, and no health pool.

Am I missing something here, or are people seriously advocating full glass when the OP asked for a dungeon anchor build? Is it just that I pretty much always slot in full zerker stuff, and the intention is a mix of valk/zerk/cavalier?

EDIT: I’m asking because, on paper, as it were, the numbers from the 10/25/0/10/25 are no better than the build I run right now – same damage, same crit chance, far, far less armour and HP, and I’m seeing no mechanism for might stacking, outside of F1 on kill spam.

Second edit: I normally run with WoR,SyG and SY!/Retreat! Just not seeing the same utility with any of the other consecrations as I am out of the available shouts. Again, I’m probably missing something, which is why I’m asking.

Those calculators don’t show damage modifiers traits. The difference between 10/30/0/5/25 and standard 0/0/30/30/10 is more than 50% and that’s with same equipment (zerkers+scholar) and no boons which would increase the difference even further.

Brutaly.6257:

Its your choice but imo triple shouts isnt the best support you can carry for the team, especially since only one of them has any valuable impact on the team (stability) that other professions cant give out as well as a guardian.

I would say the opposite, any guardian with support as their main objective isnt carrying more than one shout in pve since there are much more powerful utilities in a low condi environment like pve/dungeons.

Hold the line= any competent team stack both boons so they never ever go down.
Retreat = same with swiftness. Aegis can be valuable though but very few can actually time it for the team.
Save your self = condi removal on the team, great utility and gets even better with 10 points in honor for cd and traited virtues to cleanse the guardian.

Imo this leave SY and SyG (and perhaps 50% of Retreat) and SyG already has condi removal which means in practice honor becomes a 30 point investment to get condiremoval in SyG and maybe retreat if you want the extra aeigs.

Imo a triple shout guardian is kind of poor support even though i see the merits of it in less skilled teams.

For condiremoval gs/whirl+ SY+purging flames+traited virtues out shines triple shouts any day of the weak when it comes to condi removal as well. But thats me.

I only take triple shouts when theres no use for reflects or other utility. Theres no point running around with wall if im not using it, same goes for purging flames or hallowed ground. Although arguably they are good for the fire fields. Ive recently changed my build to not have shout cooldowns so i may start running with them + retreat instead. Anyway the only utilies people ever use in dungeons are shouts, consecrations and shield of the avenger. When most of those consecrations arent needed your going to be running with mostly shouts as they can always provide a use.

spoj.9672:

You can argue all you want but both builds have their merits and their disadvantages. Its preference. Do you want more dps but less condi removals or do you want more condi removals and slightly less dps. Its situational.

Wise words. Besides, even the question of DPS superiority is highly situational, since two nearby characters are enough to let EM outshine Power of the Virtuous, unless your group already has full might stacks. The endless repetition of the mantra “Virtues provides more DPS” does not make it true, actually.

power of the virtues > personal gain EM+Elusive power

Master of consecrations > group gain from EM

Its that simple tbh.

I’ve done some practical testing on high level fractals (49-79) with few different builds. My best ones were 10/30/0/5/25 and 15/25/0/5/25 for a hammer. You could also move 5 points from virtues and move them to honour, shield when rezzing or aegis/regen/prot sometimes founds its use.

Thing is, 20 in virtues allows for wider customization – you can even trait tomes if you’d like to.

Switched to 10/30/0/5/25 the other day. That coincidence. ;D

Speaking of which, I just started using Sword on my Guardian after a long time of using GS.

Anybody care to weigh in on the pros and cons of a Sword?

Cons are no burst and the final strike is a cone projectile attack so it doesnt have quite as wide cleave range. Best dps though.

Sword doesn’t have alot going for it as a dungeon weapon:

CON
-No symbol
-No boon
-Very situational #1 Chain

PRO
2 is great

It’s damage is on par with most the others. In fact, most of Guardian weapons have high damage coefficients so it’s hard to go wrong there.

Reilem.5910:

I already have a very critty high DPS and squishy thief and now i want something a bit tankier and supporty.

I’m probably going to be focusing on dungeons but being able to handle your standard PvE is of course also helpfull (In case i need to help some guildies with Temples in Orr or something)

Is guardian good for being tanky? I know of course that you can never be full tank in this game so it is not what i am expecting. I want to be able to provide a decent amount of heal aswell alongside the usual pain dealing just so that I can be usefull in a dungeon.

(if for example going zerker is more helpful for a dungeon party than going knights, then suggestions in that regard are also appreciated.)

0 0 30 30 10 full zerker would be a nice balance if dungeons are all you are planning to do.

Thinking about this abit, I think both sides have a good case, but in particular I don’t believe the DPS benefit would always necessarily weigh in favour of Virtues over Honor or vice versa. I’m talking from a POV on Fractals mostly.

Consecrations are best used with a hammer, since the fire fields can be blasted by yourself. Most Virtue-oriented builds detailed here don’t have room for 2H Mastery, so I presume the ‘DPS’ benefit from taking Master of Consecrations is that you get enough time to do two Blasts yourself instead of one.

Firstly, if you’re in a pug or semi-organized group even, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to stop others setting their fields on top of yours. Hell, you have to stop yourself ruining your own field because Hammer auto will drop a light field and turn it into AoE Retal.

Secondly, the estimated radius of EM I’ve seen detailed here is around 300, right? So what makes Area Might from a finisher within a /smaller/ radius Fire field so much better, if you can’t 100% reliably output more stacks than EM? Even traited Symbol of Protection is smaller than EM.

There’s only one instance in a fractal where I would slot Hallowed Ground (Harpies), and even there I would say SYG/Shield/WoR are better. That leaves just Purging Flames. This skill’s secondary effect, in my opinion, is on-point ‘burst’ condition removal.

In Fractals, the most important places I can think of to remove conditions is Swamp (Wisps), Colossus (10+ stacks of Vuln). Of course, in each case, if we were all perfect players, there would be no need to remove any of that. But in the case that you do, a static fire field where people have to rally at, or a single burst removal skill like Virtue of Resolve just don’t shine as well as the general 600 radius ability of shouts.

I pay the points in honor, personally, to be able to optimally support my team regardless of the situation. This means slotting Unscathed when I’m using mostly shouts, and slotting Master of Consecs when I’m mostly using consecrations. Having 3 slots available in honor is not a totally horrible thing, you can trait for 2H, symbols, or for reviving. Aegis/Prot/Regen on revive (No ICD) can actually be pretty good for some fights.

spoj.9672:

Switched to 10/30/0/5/25 the other day. That coincidence. ;D

Yes, it’s shady.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Speaking of which, I just started using Sword on my Guardian after a long time of using GS.

Anybody care to weigh in on the pros and cons of a Sword?

Skill#3 is really nice during certain encounters like Imbued Shaman to absorb his arrow.

You should not use sword on certain enemies which can reflect projectiles – Jade Colossi, Archdiviner in phase 2, Wraith in Arah4, etc.

I run 0/0/30/30/10 2 major water 2 sup water, 2 sup monk
knights armor, zerker jewelry – ascended

Zerker weapons except for hammer which is knights as well.
I act as the anchor from my dungeon / fractal team (20s fractal)

Am I wasting potential? If so where and why? It would seem that when I play this style the team does better. We are average players and not super stars but being the anchor or having a guardian seems to let them go wild with all dps builds.

looking for advice. videos, etc. I used to watch strife a lot but he doesn’t play anymore so I switched to DnC? I apologize if that guild name is wrong trying to recall from memory at work.

KOPPER.1458:

I run 0/0/30/30/10 2 major water 2 sup water, 2 sup monk
knights armor, zerker jewelry – ascended

Zerker weapons except for hammer which is knights as well.
I act as the anchor from my dungeon / fractal team (20s fractal)

Am I wasting potential? If so where and why? It would seem that when I play this style the team does better. We are average players and not super stars but being the anchor or having a guardian seems to let them go wild with all dps builds.

looking for advice. videos, etc. I used to watch strife a lot but he doesn’t play anymore so I switched to DnC? I apologize if that guild name is wrong trying to recall from memory at work.

It’s DnT and Strife was their member so you technically didn’t switch anything. Anchor build is good for beginners but it’s far from being optimal (in PvE).

For regular PVE, I usually run 10,0,30,20,10. It keeps you alive and gives +30% more damage if you have aegis and target is on fire. You will also have AH so you won’t be swatted like a fly. My gear is very balanced, giving me +1,9k power, +1,6k prec, +1,8k toughness, +1,3k vitality and 65% crit dmg. Crit chance is about 45% with accuracy sigils.

For weapons I run GS-staff or GS-scepter/focus.

can you guys be more specific with runes, sigils etc? link to build? I never really considered strife a beginner or anyone in DnT figured if that is what they are using in their runs then that is one of the top builds.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83701-the-perfect-dps-guardian-build/

Forget about running AH. Personally my variation has more in virtues, some in zeal and none in honor as dont need as much condi cleanse for things like COE and im running double reflects for fotm.. I just use the cleanse off traited resolve ( longer CD so not as effective as PoV but good enough for most kitten.)

Huh, that’s roughly the build I’ve been using lately.

thanks swiftpaw. so swiftpaw is brazil? or no?

Anyways thanks for the response. Will I still be able to anchor for the group? It seems the almost depend on it.

KOPPER.1458:

so swiftpaw is brazil? or no?

Maybe after sex reassignment surgery.

haviz.1340:

KOPPER.1458:

so swiftpaw is brazil? or no?

Maybe after sex reassignment surgery.

pls, no. nonononononononononono

lol ok good to know. :P Thanks for the build all the same, Going to test it out this weekend and see how it goes.

OP reads first few replies and comes back a few days later

“Oh so more people have replied?… nice more info n kitten…that’s a new one…oh it’s another completely different build…oh and they’re argueing about it now…let’s see who comes out first here…i mean this guy could be like completely wrong…yeah so that other guy was right…so this is kinda it then?…everyones agreeing on this one it seems…so i guess it’s that on-…nope this guy is saying something else again…and now they’re argueing about it again…oh dear lord… yes hello there comment about Op, i am indeed very scared…and now some other dude is asking for help about his build?… on my thread o.0…and they’re all helping him aswell… dude like there are like 4 other guys getting help here or something…and they are all being helped… whaaat o.o… wow that’s actually some better advice i’m getting from these guys… man that’s was alot of info… holie kitten this thread just keeps getting replies…guys wut r u doing, guys staihp…eeh”

-(Not hating here just very surprised, usually my questions get only a few replies and this is just funny)-(and carry on. Some people are getting helped here so no need to close this)

The recipe for infinite posts on a forum. Is to draw out us zerkers to give advice and then have some others say we are wrong and provide bad advice. Arguements ensue and so on. You get the idea.

The tl;dr of the thread seems to just be run 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/5/25 in full berserker.

Just talk about why selfish builds are bad, that always riles people up.

Magic Find isn’t selfish! How is it selfish for me to want things only for myself at the expense of my team?!

Kirschwasser.3972:

Magic Find isn’t selfish! How is it selfish for me to want things only for myself at the expense of my team?!

NO. You should be wearing full PVT. Stop being so selfish!

swiftpaw.6397:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Magic Find isn’t selfish! How is it selfish for me to want things only for myself at the expense of my team?!

NO. You should be wearing full PVT. Stop being so selfish!

Quit telling me how to play the game. Not everybody is a scumbag elitist PVTer like you.

Kirschwasser.3972:

swiftpaw.6397:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Magic Find isn’t selfish! How is it selfish for me to want things only for myself at the expense of my team?!

NO. You should be wearing full PVT. Stop being so selfish!

Quit telling me how to play the game. Not everybody is a scumbag elitist PVTer like you.

You play how you want?!?! I POST ON FORUMS HOW I WANT!!!

swiftpaw.6397:

Kirschwasser.3972:

swiftpaw.6397:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Magic Find isn’t selfish! How is it selfish for me to want things only for myself at the expense of my team?!

NO. You should be wearing full PVT. Stop being so selfish!

Quit telling me how to play the game. Not everybody is a scumbag elitist PVTer like you.

You play how you want?!?! I POST ON FORUMS HOW I WANT!!!

You only get to do things the way you want when they don’t impede with the way I want things even if they impede the way you want things!

… Or something!

Kirschwasser.3972:

swiftpaw.6397:

Kirschwasser.3972:

swiftpaw.6397:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Magic Find isn’t selfish! How is it selfish for me to want things only for myself at the expense of my team?!

NO. You should be wearing full PVT. Stop being so selfish!

Quit telling me how to play the game. Not everybody is a scumbag elitist PVTer like you.

You play how you want?!?! I POST ON FORUMS HOW I WANT!!!

You only get to do things the way you want when they don’t impede with the way I want things even if they impede the way you want things!

… Or something!

Ahh.. AHHHHHH.. AHHHHHHHHHHHHH my kitten head. YOU WIN THIS TIME, BUT I WILL MAKE YOU RUE THE DAY YOU CROSSED ME.

Quote Brutality: (cuz I’m a forum noob and apparently can’t get the quote thing to work correctly)

“For condiremoval gs/whirl+ SY+purging flames+traited virtues out shines triple shouts any day of the weak when it comes to condi removal as well. But thats me.”

Brutality I have 2 questions, multiple parts for you. First, does purging flames still only remove one condition unless you keep crossing its fire barrier? If so, how hard do you find it to dance across the barrier to remove multiple conditions?

Secondly, do you find when you run with hammer you need to bring another condition removal for lack of gs? Or do you run hammer/gs together?

I love hammer and love dungeons, but I’m struggling to find a really solid build to use with my full zerk. Everything I’ve tried is just so-so. Conditions usually seem to be the death of me in some way/shape/form.

Dead Water.2715:

Conditions usually seem to be the death of me in some way/shape/form.

An alternative you could experiment with is using the Signet heal and trait for Perfect Inscriptions and Purity – that’ll give you 3 passive condition removals every 10 seconds, and should free up you to spec your utilities how you want. If you still have problems then condition duration reducing food should help too.

While I can’t give the sage advice of Brutaly when it comes to hammer play, you should probably get the feel of dancing in and out of Purging Flames – which isn’t as sissy-looking as it sounds because you’ll be wanting to Mighty Blow on CD while the circle is up to stack might for you and your team members.

Just make sure the fire fields are placed first and it will always grant might.

PF is super easy in pve since you can place it where you want with little interference. This isnt the case in pvp where people tend to be a bit more innovative.

It still just removes one condition (or at least be fore the last patch) but i havent played extensively in the last weeks due to a newborn so it might have changed in the last patch.

As tarsius says, dancning in and out isnt as sissy as it sounds, if done properly you should have given at least 3 stacks of might for 39 sec (if 30 points in virtues) to you team if you play with hammer. Basically replacing empowering might while removing conditions, whats not to like.

As Tarsius also says there are other means to remove conditions. Signets and purity are two passive ones and ofc you f also have stuff in virtues.

I mostly run hammer/gs for max aoe dps but im no speedkill pro so having a condition or two doesnt bother me since i dont use rune of the scholar, i prefer boon duration for 60% boon with 30 points in virtues.

So basically triggering one fire field once gives the team 3 stacks for 48 s on a 32 s cooldown.

If you have issues with conditions why not go 10/20/10/30/0 and just trait signets, purity, pure of voice and use two (3) shouts and swap in purging flames as well.

Or 0/30/30/5/5 and swap in smite conditions and contemplation of purity along side purging flames and gs.

Last resort would be rune of 6*melandru and condi duration food, with that nothing sticks.