Guild Wars 2

Hey Dragon hunters,

I’m a pvp player and obviously DH is in a good spot this season ( at least below diamond ). The goal of this post is not to complain about traps, but to understand the weakness of the current meta DH.

I have little knowledge of playing the class ( maybe ~10-20 games playing burn guardian and bunker ), so I wanted to ask to people used to play the class, because you get more knowledge from someone playing ~1k games.

I know, as a thief I should avoid fights involving a DH. Sometimes I don’t have a choice and I need to face one ( delay a cap / temporize / no other choice in rotations ). So my question is how can I pressure a DH at best with a thief ? is there a window where they are more vulnerable ?

I often try to start the fight using a daze ( head shot ) to proc the passive auto-trap ( it’s a heal If I’m right ).

if the dh protects his f2 and his heal with either f3 or focus 5 the only way to apply any pressure in a 1v1 is to make him waste his stunbreaks and hit the stolen ability on him since the daze is kinda your only hope for trading damage with them.

the auto trap is not a heal but its a stunbreak so you should trigger it like you already do.

I’ve been a guardian main since launch, and I also have around 300 matches with thief in my belt. When playing thief, to this day I’ve found no way of reliably engaging a guardian on point, even as I know the class through and out.

Fight them off-point, or if you can’t, you are better off going for the teamfight than trying to take on a DH on-point by yourself. You could try to bait them to move away from the point but if that fails you gotta go elsewhere.

The best way to kill a DH as a Thief is to run P/P you can either use Da/Tr/DrD with P/P and Staff or you can use Da/Tr/Cs with Assassins Amulet and either Rune of the Scholar or Rune of the Wurm your choice with P/P with SB, you have to time bursts and kite keep them at 700-900 range, open with an Unload then use AA or Pistol 2 whenever they pop their Defensive CDs/ Heals, then keep doing that till all their defensive a are on CD then Try to burst with Unload spam as cheesy as it is.

the Utilities you would want to run are Shadowstep, Blinding Powder and either Assassin’s Signet for bigger burst on unload or Signet of Agility for more precision and more dodges, you want Basilisk Venom for your Elite to help tear through their Defenses.

Most DHs will drop within a couple seconds to this pressure if you get an actual competent DH it takes longer and you will be hard pressed while Kiting if that’s the case try to disengage and reset or disengage entirely because someone is most likely on their way to help them.

This really melts and screws up the Bads that run full traps, since they require you to Proc their traps but if you don’t afford that oppurtunity you will win 8/10 times

Start: Poison or poison field to weaken wings of resolve passive effect and force to cast heals.

Range: Shortbow if the DH is waiting for you to trigger traps, once they are sprung go Dagger/Dagger and apply conditions. Even with condi cleanse DH goes down fast because of the low health pool.

Close combat: Start with Basilisk Venom and apply conditions/damage, try to interrupt wings of resolve or force them to cast it while poisoned (he’s gonna cast them after using renewed focus 95% of the times).

Be sure to be able tom reset the combat with shadow step or blinding powder (equip at least 1).

Basically Venomshare (3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3) if you attack them while being with a Herald or a Chronomancer (even if they’re not that good) you are gonna trash the DH in most scenarios.

When fighting a group of DHs stay ranged keep up the poison field most of the time and autoattack, proceed to close combat 1 by 1 once they have wasted renewed focus and have low health.

Easy peezy.

Venomshare build:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Carrion_Venomshare

P/P unload spam + poison works reasonably well vs the current symbolic meta. Less well vs DHrunning LB since it outranges you.

I play both thief and guard. It is defiantly an uphill battle. The key usually is to force the DH to blow there defenses uselessly. Easier said than done against skilled opponents. You want to drag on the battle and try to force incorrect use of traps/defenses.

In my experience staff works best against DHs. P/P can work against melee DHs (common for symbol build), but playing at range against DH with LB or scepter is not advisable.

As a counter to thief on DH, since most thieves initiate with steal , I respond to steal right away with smite, which removes both the weakness and the poison. Then test of faith to daze and provide protection. it is usually a lost battle for the thief if they continue to play offensive from that point. The key is to play defensive not offensive. Offensive does not work well against DH.

Generally, as a thief, I would not waste my time fighting a fully loaded DH with all defenses and traps ready. Even if you can win, it will be a long draged out battle.

There’s definitely window’s of opportunity that most Thieves are either unaware, or don’t know how to play the wait game so they go all in.

If the Guardian has full health, odds are they have full cds. Unless you burst with a Rev or Ranger’s pet bursts first, it’ll otherwise be an uphill battle. But if you burst while he’s at half health and/or you know he already used his F3 Shield & Test of Faith trap, then he has very little to recover.

Your first CC (stun, pull, push, knockdown etc) activates his Stability trap. Guard can have a total of 3 stability items up unless he’s Symbolic built. You know he’s symbolic when his 1-hander weapon symbols are larger on point. That means he lacks F3 stability and is weaker to CC (if you attack from back).

Unlike a Necro or Rev where you have to burst head on before they get stronger later; if you play the wait game with the Guardian by deliberately watching DH health drop to half and wasting cds, that’s usually your opportunity to gank him. Bait him out with hit-&-run attacks.

If you insist on attacking a DH head on, Staff Vault builds can 1v1 him more successfully, followed by pistol builds (though not as successful).

p/p thf works on guards that use too many traps but not on meditrappers who use shields. d/p thf fairs better but isn’t necessarily a sure thing. dodge spam condi thf can eventually kill a menders guard but not a marauder one.

Kuya.6495:

p/p thf works on guards that use too many traps but not on meditrappers who use shields. d/p thf fairs better but isn’t necessarily a sure thing. dodge spam condi thf can eventually kill a menders guard but not a marauder one.

The Symbolic DH which used Sw/Fo and Sc or Ma/Sh is at a bigger disadvantage than the Medi Trapper using LB. I have been playing a core thief build using Da/Tr/Cs all season and only once found a DH that could kill me 1v1 and he was smart about fighting me.btrying to use D/P is a lot worse against DH from all of the Aoe/ close range cc they have.

Saiyan.1704:

There’s definitely window’s of opportunity that most Thieves are either unaware, or don’t know how to play the wait game so they go all in.

If the Guardian has full health, odds are they have full cds. Unless you burst with a Rev or Ranger’s pet bursts first, it’ll otherwise be an uphill battle. But if you burst while he’s at half health and/or you know he already used his F3 Shield & Test of Faith trap, then he has very little to recover.

Your first CC (stun, pull, push, knockdown etc) activates his Stability trap. Guard can have a total of 3 stability items up unless he’s Symbolic built. You know he’s symbolic when his 1-hander weapon symbols are larger on point. That means he lacks F3 stability and is weaker to CC (if you attack from back).

Unlike a Necro or Rev where you have to burst head on before they get stronger later; if you play the wait game with the Guardian by deliberately watching DH health drop to half and wasting cds, that’s usually your opportunity to gank him. Bait him out with hit-&-run attacks.

If you insist on attacking a DH head on, Staff Vault builds can 1v1 him more successfully, followed by pistol builds (though not as successful).

That ’s the kind of tips I was looking for, since d/p is pretty much the only build viable at all level of pvp.

I know that p/p is a good counter, but I don’t intend to play it as it doesn’t offer much utility. And condi d/d is too easily countered.

Anyway, thanks for all your answers

Wargameur.6950:

Saiyan.1704:

There’s definitely window’s of opportunity that most Thieves are either unaware, or don’t know how to play the wait game so they go all in.

If the Guardian has full health, odds are they have full cds. Unless you burst with a Rev or Ranger’s pet bursts first, it’ll otherwise be an uphill battle. But if you burst while he’s at half health and/or you know he already used his F3 Shield & Test of Faith trap, then he has very little to recover.

Your first CC (stun, pull, push, knockdown etc) activates his Stability trap. Guard can have a total of 3 stability items up unless he’s Symbolic built. You know he’s symbolic when his 1-hander weapon symbols are larger on point. That means he lacks F3 stability and is weaker to CC (if you attack from back).

Unlike a Necro or Rev where you have to burst head on before they get stronger later; if you play the wait game with the Guardian by deliberately watching DH health drop to half and wasting cds, that’s usually your opportunity to gank him. Bait him out with hit-&-run attacks.

If you insist on attacking a DH head on, Staff Vault builds can 1v1 him more successfully, followed by pistol builds (though not as successful).

That ’s the kind of tips I was looking for, since d/p is pretty much the only build viable at all level of pvp.

I know that p/p is a good counter, but I don’t intend to play it as it doesn’t offer much utility. And condi d/d is too easily countered.

Anyway, thanks for all your answers

P/P can have utility you just need to run DrD instead of CS and use Bound through BP, then Shadowstep, Bandits Defens or Blinding Powder and SoA you use BP and Bound for Stealth and so on its less viable than D/P but not by much if you know how to position and keep distance between you and others when needed.

Great way to nuke someone is BV>BP>Bound Assassins Signet steal into Unload. Don’t do this to a DH though due to traps with daze and the passive trap.

D/P Thief can’t really fight DH well. You need some sort of evade in your weapon set or you can’t dodge all of the important kitten. Staff is much stronger in the current meta. My favorite way to pressure DHs is to Vault on their backside when they use Shield of Courage. Use Weakening Charge on your Steal to apply Weakness for a little bit of wiggle room. Weakening Charge can also be used to break the focus block because it hits three times. When you use Bandit’s Defense, a good DH will follow up with Spear of Justice, so be prepared to dodge that. Debilitating Arc is stronger than Vault in this match up unless you’re sure he won’t dodge the Vault, but be careful because the end of Arc isn’t an evade frame, so you’ll take damage if you use it wrong inside Test of Faith. Dust Strike isn’t worth it. The third part of the Staff auto attack is a reflect, but it’s hard to plan that. Use it if it’s up, but don’t rely on it. Steal to interrupt the Wings.

Also, the passive trap is a bunch of Aegises, not the heal.

TL;DR – Staff is the strongest overall Thief build at the moment. D/P doesn’t have enough evades or passive tankiness to take on a Trapper DH.

Also like to add that some of the better thieves in the game use Staff. A thief in my guild uses it and is just a few pips away from Legendary. He doesn’t particularly have issues with DH at least, I never hear him complain.

I will give it a try then

It was worth posting in the guardian part of the forum, having fresh tips is always the best !

If all else fails, go dodge spam condi thf.

OK so I tried staff for a few games.

It is effective against DH since you can get high spike during short windows and it is effective to break block from the focus. Vault is also great to go inside the trap without getting damaged by the traversal.

At first I was using staff with DD/DA/TR but the probem is :
- Staff AA is slow, 1/2 sec on first part of the chain 1/2 sec on second part of the chain. I find really difficult to proc the third part of the chain without getting hit heavily. So the dammage form the first two are low.
- Vault is an init eater and easy to predict, I can land it with a bit of anticipation.
- I underestimate debilitating arc.
- There is no gap closer except for steal, which is even harded to hit AA
- one interrupt which give the matchup against channeled skills less easy. ( no headshot + impact strike )

I found myself too vulnerable and traded DA for ACcro whith upper hand, I was more tanky and got better.

Anyway that was a good experience. I think I will stick to d/p keeping the timings of cooldowns, heals and blocks in mind and wait the 50% window to spike. I will also be more careful about true shot.

Why would you even fight a DH as a thief when its weakness is your strength? DH woefully lacks in the mobility department and thief dominates in mobility. You’re better off just going where the DH isn’t.

Wargameur.6950:

Hey Dragon hunters,

I’m a pvp player and obviously DH is in a good spot this season ( at least below diamond ). The goal of this post is not to complain about traps, but to understand the weakness of the current meta DH.

I have little knowledge of playing the class ( maybe ~10-20 games playing burn guardian and bunker ), so I wanted to ask to people used to play the class, because you get more knowledge from someone playing ~1k games.

I know, as a thief I should avoid fights involving a DH. Sometimes I don’t have a choice and I need to face one ( delay a cap / temporize / no other choice in rotations ). So my question is how can I pressure a DH at best with a thief ? is there a window where they are more vulnerable ?

I often try to start the fight using a daze ( head shot ) to proc the passive auto-trap ( it’s a heal If I’m right ).

I doubt there is a good answer for you, Wargamuer. I have mained thief for about two years now. I can beat guardians, but not dragon hunters. not ever, really.

Recently I rolled up a DH for PvP, just to try it out. I won every fight by pushing buttons. I should mention that my experience with guardian is practically nil, and my experience with DH is actually zero. I literally just rolled up a guardian, went straight to PvP, picked weapons and traits that made sense to me, selected all traps for utility skills, and pushed buttons. This class is broken, and thieves have no chance until I see it on video.

I’d suggest watching sindrener’s stream for thieving tips/advice

If the DH is moving, you can just burst him from stealth and retreat out of range before he drops traps. If he then moves out of the traps, you can just burst again, repeat to fade.

I have more than 1k games on DH/guard and around 300 on thief.
If you want to pressure DH as a thief you have to main options:

The first and and most obvious is P/P, starting with a head shot is not a wise idea as you will lose initiative and will only remove guardians’ basal aegis. Then again, you won’t ever come close to fight in melee range. Make them pop their defenses while being far away and they will melt eventualy. Beware of the DH as they will not stand iddle as you melt them (at lest that’s what I do as a DH).

The second option I’ve found to work is, if you are carrying D/P + SB, to have basi venom + immobilize venom. Most DHs key spam and don’t analyze their oponent so if use immobilize on them they will pop their wings just to get rid of that condi or any other condi cleanse ability they have. You force them to enter cooldowns. If you are able to pop the traps while dodging DH will be defenseless as you can now activate basi venom and burst them to death. If you can’t kill them in the burst you should go back to ranged and finish them with the bow.

IMHO, the symbolic DH is just terrible since they lack stability options. If you see their symbols are larger than usual you can interrupt their skills with “Steal”. You should use it not as an opening strike but as a way of continuous damage while your venoms are on recharge or the DH popping symbols to heal itself.
If they are carrying longbow you will kill them while interrupting them. Longbow 5 has a really long casting time, you can headshot. Longbow 2 has a shorter casting time, you interrupt with steal.

If you see the DH pop his heal in the middle of the cap, don’t ever go to melee range. Bear in mind that the trap if not triggered only heals for 2k. That’s a shortbow autoattack. Play smart and keep your distance. If they use JI + heal trap they are forced out of their traps, so you melee melt them given that case.

Staff builds work pretty good too but i’m not proficient on thief as to use it effectively. You should consult in the Thief’s forum for that.

Shadow.1345:

Why would you even fight a DH as a thief when its weakness is your strength? DH woefully lacks in the mobility department and thief dominates in mobility. You’re better off just going where the DH isn’t.

Because I want to know what I can do in every matchup and because thinking that mobility is the solution to everything is a mistake. The name of the thread is “how to pressure a DH” which mean the tips I can get from all the answers are also useful in a +1 situation.

Darknicrofia.2604:

I’d suggest watching sindrener’s stream for thieving tips/advice

I did that already ^^ I watched the one, where he was trying to get through ruby. He was like “WTF are those damages ?”, “You would never see a full trap DH in pro leagues, set traps and then leave point…how would that make sense ?”.

holychampion.7386:

I have more than 1k games on DH/guard and around 300 on thief.
If you want to pressure DH as a thief you have to main options:

The second option I’ve found to work is, if you are carrying D/P + SB, to have basi venom + immobilize venom. Most DHs key spam and don’t analyze their oponent so if use immobilize on them they will pop their wings just to get rid of that condi or any other condi cleanse ability they have. You force them to enter cooldowns. If you are able to pop the traps while dodging DH will be defenseless as you can now activate basi venom and burst them to death. If you can’t kill them in the burst you should go back to ranged and finish them with the bow.

IMHO, the symbolic DH is just terrible since they lack stability options. If you see their symbols are larger than usual you can interrupt their skills with “Steal”. You should use it not as an opening strike but as a way of continuous damage while your venoms are on recharge or the DH popping symbols to heal itself.
If they are carrying longbow you will kill them while interrupting them. Longbow 5 has a really long casting time, you can headshot. Longbow 2 has a shorter casting time, you interrupt with steal.

If you see the DH pop his heal in the middle of the cap, don’t ever go to melee range. Bear in mind that the trap if not triggered only heals for 2k. That’s a shortbow autoattack. Play smart and keep your distance. If they use JI + heal trap they are forced out of their traps, so you melee melt them given that case.

Staff builds work pretty good too but i’m not proficient on thief as to use it effectively. You should consult in the Thief’s forum for that.

Thank you, I didn’t thought about the mind game, I have to give it a try I will also watch out for the lack of stab on the symbolic build.

I know this is a difficult matchup, and there is no good answer to it. But hey, these answers are really good.