Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

blah blah

I’ll elaborate further so everybody can understand. In easy dot points yayyy!!

• Meditation builds are burst only.
• AH builds are backpoint or point assault.
• AH builds can also support the team fight, they hybridize.
• Bunker builds rely on regeneration, dodges and shelter/rf to live. They can easily hold a point for kitten against two players. If you can’t you’re doing it wrong and if nobody could do it the build would be changed so they could.
• Meditation Guards are not terrible in team fights, they play a different role (roamer)
• AH on a bunker is only used currently due to PoV bug meaning you don’t need many points in Virtues. In 9 days this won’t be the case.
• Guardians have to spec heavily into heals, it restricts a lot of our builds completely, I don’t mind this but if you were to put majority of our survivability on a low investment passive then we would have a lot more choices for builds (like warriors).

Saying Guardians have the highest HPS and thus are OP is just stupid. I’ve seen a lot of your other threads on the forums and it’s a lot of misinformed whining. You are now more informed.

Number one kitten. never said guards were OP. In fact I have never once whined about guards. Reading comprehension is a great thing! Number two Med guards are good roamers because they are DPS. And the POV change should not come in because condi meta is kitten strong still and needs a good counter to it. And what better class to counter it than the “healer” class of this game.

Guardians do infact have the highest Health Per Second gain in this game and that is through AH and shouts plus symbols that provide boons… No other class can match the amount of healing a guardian can dish on themselves and their teammates in group fights.

However once again I never said nor will I ever say guards are OP. They have their weaknesses and are not end all cheese all builds like say warriors atm.

We don’t need the PoV bug, it’s only good for a variety of builds. Guardian meta is Support/Bunker/Control, there are no healers in this game, just support.
Meditation guards are burst only not DPS, they have no sustain.
Guardians do support really well but they don’t have an insane passive which nullifies large amounts of damage with NO downside, we have to burn cooldowns and spec specifically just to support. Healing Signet can be played on any kind of Warrior regardless of spec or style.
You also said they were OP in your first post or so, that’s why I was commenting.

The whole point of the thread is that Warriors have a really stupid HPS passive which takes no investment or skill to use and it completely overshadows Guardian ACTIVE skills and heavy trait investment.
Your argument has no merit.

And I don’t think I ever said that warriors didn’t need a nerf in that whole healing signet area…. I kinda feel like you are arguing for the sake of arguing… I know that guardians have to give up a lot to get that much insane healing and blow cooldowns…. And in tournament play how viable is a “burst” meditation guard?

jportell.2197:

And I don’t think I ever said that warriors didn’t need a nerf in that whole healing signet area…. I kinda feel like you are arguing for the sake of arguing… I know that guardians have to give up a lot to get that much insane healing and blow cooldowns…. And in tournament play how viable is a “burst” meditation guard?

I mean if you’d stop veering off course in your argument whenever you make a point that’s wrong….

I’m just gonna /popcorn this thread.

Warriors have always had higher passive healing than Guardians. Always. You know why? Because their passive heal is their healing skill. So you get your passive heal in addition to your healing skill. Then there’s all those other sources of healing you have and easy access to aegis, protection, and regen.

Healing signet may be a bit high at the moment but it’s not that much of a difference relative to healing surge.

Yaki.9563:

Warriors have always had higher passive healing than Guardians. Always. You know why? Because their passive heal is their healing skill. So you get your passive heal in addition to your healing skill. Then there’s all those other sources of healing you have and easy access to aegis, protection, and regen.

Healing signet may be a bit high at the moment but it’s not that much of a difference relative to healing surge.

Wait, what? What game are you playing?

Warriors having higher passive healing than guardians happened very recently with the Healing Signet changes. Prior to that warrior passive healing was largely a very unfunny joke.

And hate to tell you, there is a huge difference between passive health regeneration and burst health recovery. Especially passive health regeneration that strong.

Incoming wall of text outlining quick glance at what warrior and guardian have in comparison to healing. These are all base calculations with no gear or traits added per wiki. Not a full picture of each class but what is offered.

HP = healing power

Regen: 130+(0.125*HP)
----------------------------------------------
Warrior’s Healing abilities:

Healing Signet: 392+ (0.05*HP)

Healing Surge: Stage 0 heal: 5,885+(0.90*HP), Stage 1 heal: 6,540+(1*HP), Stage 2 heal: 8,180+(1.25*HP), Stage 3 heal: 9,820+(1.5*HP)

Mending: 5240+(1*HP)

Adrenal Health: [1bar] 125+(0.15*HP), [2 bar] 240+(0.15*HP), [3 bar] 360+(0.15*HP). ticks every 3 seconds.

Vigorous Shouts: 1192+(0.8*HP)

Inspiring Battle Standard/Dogged March = Regen (See above)

No on-demand weapon skills that grant health besides the possibility of traited war horn granting regen.

--------------------------------------------

Guardian’s Healing Abilities:

Utilities:
Virtue of Resolve: 84+(0.06*HP), active 1625+(0.75*HP)

Shelter: 4,555+(0.7*HP)

Signet of Resolve: 8,150+(1.25*HP)

Healing Breeze: [Self]6,525(1*HP), [AoE]1,725(1*HP)

Merciful Intervention: 1,960+(0.6*HP) heals self and ally.

Sanctuary: 266+(0.05*HP) per sec over 6 seconds

SyS!/HtL!: Regen (See above)

Tome of Courage: Please see http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tome_of_Courage

Weapons:
Staff - Orb of Light Detonate: 788+(0.6*HP)

Staff - Empower: 1500+(1*HP)

Mace - AA#3: 335(0.18*HP)

Mace - Symbol of Faith: Regen (See above)

Focus - Ray of Judgement: Regen (See above)

Shield of Absorption(Sequence): 1300+(0.2*HP)

Zeal - Zealous Blade: 25 per attack

Valor - Monk’s Focus: 1960+(0.4*HP)

Valor - Altruistic Healing: 69+(0.01*HP) per boon/stack.

Honor - Writ of Merciful: 107+(0.75*HP) per pulse

Honor - Pure of Heart: 645+(0.25*HP)

Honor - Protective Reviver: Regen (See above)

Honor - Selfless Daring: 129(1*HP) aoe heal

Virtue - Absolute Resolution: 25% bonus to base healing i.e. 84+(.25*84=21) = 105+(0.06*HP)

Virtue - Inspired Virtue: Regen (See above)

-----------------------------------

Conclusion: The guardian has more options available, though not all at once, in comparison to the warrior but requires more investment to take full advantage of as some coefficients are lower than the warrior’s. Warrior is able to spend less into healing power for greater output mainly due to the lack of damage mitigation that is available via boons and conditions.

I would think that guardians could use a slight bump in the coefficients to take advantage of healing power mainly due to the amount of available abilities they have at one time. This would make, for example, the Healway build significantly stronger though in terms of survival but not damage which would then allow players to gear or trait more offensively bringing guardian DPS up. The problem would be determining how much before you create a monster...

Another topic that could be talked about, mainly pertaining to Healway, would be retaliation (and confusion condition) and how it is a passive punishment for players but that’s for another thread...

For warriors, they need a baseline reduction but a coefficient boost allowing the players that do wish to invest in to healing power a more noticeable change. Just my opinion and observation. Granting any class a strong baseline but medium to poor coefficient allows for greater desired stats in term of damage or armor while still maintaining a strong passive(or active) heal for no investment costs.

Sannhet.8745:

Yaki.9563:

Warriors have always had higher passive healing than Guardians. Always. You know why? Because their passive heal is their healing skill. So you get your passive heal in addition to your healing skill. Then there’s all those other sources of healing you have and easy access to aegis, protection, and regen.

Healing signet may be a bit high at the moment but it’s not that much of a difference relative to healing surge.

Wait, what? What game are you playing?

Warriors having higher passive healing than guardians happened very recently with the Healing Signet changes. Prior to that warrior passive healing was largely a very unfunny joke.

And hate to tell you, there is a huge difference between passive health regeneration and burst health recovery. Especially passive health regeneration that strong.

Healing Signet has always outhealed VoR. Always. By a large margin. In addition, warriors have always been able to get Adrenal Health, which also (by itself) outheals VoR.

So try again.

Sannhet.8745:

jportell.2197:

And I don’t think I ever said that warriors didn’t need a nerf in that whole healing signet area…. I kinda feel like you are arguing for the sake of arguing… I know that guardians have to give up a lot to get that much insane healing and blow cooldowns…. And in tournament play how viable is a “burst” meditation guard?

I mean if you’d stop veering off course in your argument whenever you make a point that’s wrong….

I’m just gonna /popcorn this thread.

Never veered off course at all. Warriors passive regen for what they invest is ridiculous and needs toned down. Even with all that guardians still have the highest HPS in the game and are much better team fight supporters than a warrior.

I never said guardians were OP.
I never said warriors weren’t OP with their current implementation.
Jax kitten -u-me-d that I was saying guardians were OP. Which is flat wrong and demonstrates a complete lack of reading comprehension from his end.

Considering warriors are getting a pretty hefty buff to passive healing I really think that’s going to change it. I was discussing this on redit with someone.

Consider Warrior versus Guardian. A warrior has almost double the health of the Guardian, while having high armor values. So what makes guardians good at bunkering versus a warrior? Well if you watch the most recent matches, nothing. Both are excellent at bunker, and they get even stronger when they are matched together. Consider the SYNC versus DENIAL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_BZszcYu6Q&list=SPP3WL5mu_57tZfSqFLjDr7dWs9nHVMHzM&index=18

You had warrior/ranger/guardian/mesmer/thief verus thief/ranger/ranger/guardian/necro. The first comp 3-0ed for the final.

If you watch that you can see how huge the difference in warrior is versus some others.

To anyone that says warriors can’t mid bunker, they are wrong period. Warriors can, but it requires you to not build kittenzerker. Instead you have to build heavy condi tank support.

I don’t know if this applies in hot join though. I know for a fact that in wvw I can easily kill people 2/3v1. I can do 2v1 duels in spvp running a 0/20/20/30/0 rabbid/carrion rundes of undead sw/sw lb.

edit
About what I said above, that used to be how I played. You can’t do it anymore though. The new bl mechanic killed wvw on most servers. So many quit or transferred. I considered it but then I won’t be around but about another month anyway so it’s not worth the money.

Jax.5261:

Meditation guards are burst only not DPS, they have no sustain.

Meditations Guardians have great sustain and high Burst and DPS damage it’s just a case of whether the player knows what he is going or not. It’s all situational of course and I respect that you are a good guardian who has provided a lot for the community but on this single point you are incorrect. The rest of what you said hit the nail on the head however and I couldn’t agree more.