Guild Wars 2

Inspired by Diablo 2’s Paladin, Offensive auras (yeah the nostalgia)
http://diablo.gamepedia.com/Fanaticism_

Zeal GM – Fanaticism

Each attack increases your and your party’s attack speed by 1% for 7s up until a maximum of 25% increased attack speed.

*Also takes into account Retaliation. Does not take into account condition damage.

Any thoughts?

For starters this is very op. It also moves further away on what the Guardian is… In that he is Not a Paladin.

Also it’s difficult introducing an entirely new game mechanic like Fanaticism (name sounds like a Mesmer trait) unless you turn it into a quickness, which could work but for 2 seconds. Cd can be for every 10s or so. Even then that can be really op if it pops when you’re stomping.

Ok @Saiyan, let’s break this down into pieces.

Pve wise.
This would be superb, very good trait and benefit for the whole party. You say it’s OP, ok let’s shave 2 seconds, make it every 5s, heck even 4. Solid DPS increase, and real reason to go 6 in Zeal, which we can’t say it’s true for now. Also it will make Mace and Hammer a beast. It’s a GM trait after all.

Pvp/WvW wise.
In pvp would again be pretty strong on point, if you take into account retaliation ticks this would ramp up very fast, for that reason u can make it 3s and make it that if u break your attack chains for in that 3s period you loose all your attack speed bonus that you had before.

In WvW in big zergs using a GS WW, a scepter smite or retal will get you to 25% instantly but it will also mean a death sentence if you hit retal yourself so it’s a double edge sword. Plus you will have to stack up more defensive gear as you will only be able to go full valor for AH for sustain.
For roaming going 6.×.6.×.x meditations it will mean to drop the DMG bonus that u get from radiance and the exrat crit chance, so your crit will be very low. And knowing that a guardian don’t have any solft CC it will still be hard to stay on target to get to the full potential.

Guardian is not a paladin true, and neither the D3 crusader is not a guardian but uses consecrations. It’s just naming across different games. Also I don’t know which Mesmer trait are you talking about that sounds like Fanaticism.

So again you have tradeoffs. Go for extra attack speed or choose DMG coefficients.
And I don’t think It would be hard to implement, warrior already has in arms a flat 10% attack speed with Dual Wield Agility. I mentioned that this buff will only increase the attack speed and not actions, so it won’t benefit on stomps or rezzes.

I really think this would be a nice way to bring zeal alive. If you guys/girls think it’s too powerful let’s make this balanced and try to make it work somehow.

If I understand the way the game works, this trait wouldn’t … Aren’t all attacks based on multiples of 1/4 second increments? The 1%‘s wouldn’t even register.

OK so @Saiyan you are right, it is pretty much OP. Maybe I didn’t put too much tough into it.

New version (more balanced)

Zeal GM – Fanaticism

Passive Effect: You and your allies (max 5) Radius ~ 600? Gain 8% increased attack speed.

Active: Upon Activating Virtue of Justice you and your allies gain 1% attack speed per attack for 5s. Caps to 15% attacks speed. 30s cool down.
*Takes into account retaliation.

Obtena.7952:

If I understand the way the game works, this trait wouldn’t … Aren’t all attacks based on multiples of 1/4 second increments? The 1%‘s wouldn’t even register.

Didn’t tough of it actually. Can anyone confirm?

Really cool idea! I would rather keep it as simple passive effect that boosts attack speed by 5-10%. It would basically be same as to increase party dps by that percent. Other traits with similjar effect are warrior’s Dual_Wield_Agility and empower allies. Dual wield agility can increase warrior attack speed by 10% and empower allies can increase party power by 5-10%

Fanaticism would be pve musthave and depending on the bonus % it could give spawn to new pvp or wvw builds.

Nothing should be a PVE must have. IF that’s the general impression, it’s probably too good.

IF it’s a boost to attack speed, it should just grant Haste.

Before they create brand new traits I’d like them to look at the existing 20+ traits that nobody ever takes because they underperform or just plain suck & redesign them.

That ^ & redesign the torch, shield & possibly adjust the hammer a bit.

Obtena.7952:

Nothing should be a PVE must have. IF that’s the general impression, it’s probably too good.

IF it’s a boost to attack speed, it should just grant Haste.

This ^.

Small constant attack speed boosts like the OP’s would be extremely hard to implement & near impossible to balance.

If the guardian were to get some personal way to gain haste on a CD that would be fine, if it were to get a better way to grant haste (then the tome) to allies then that would be great too.
It should be on a CD that can be balanced however.

Saiyan.1704:

For starters this is very op. It also moves further away on what the Guardian is… In that he is Not a Paladin.

Except a Guardian already can grant quickness to the party. Naming conventions aside, the suggestion isn’t unreasonable.

As far as comparing fantasy archetypes, the Guardian is the closest fit to a Paladin. Regardless, the appearance of the class has nothing to do with the skill-sets. I think the OP is asking for a more accessible quickness than the Tome, which is only useful in niche situations.

I’ll also echo what others have been saying. The Guardian needs to have the Shield and Torch seriously looked at and improved.

Or just make it a passive elite skill that works as a player centred banner/spirit.

@Coinhead,
Tbh, I would avoid just a simple passive bonus, I really don’t like them that much, we have some pretty boring traits that just do that, 10% dmg on sword, on conditions etc. I would like it to be more as an effect of something you actively do.

@Obtena,
Nothing is a must any ware if u want to go that route, neither in Pvp nor in WvW. A lot of things are too good that’s why u bring them when they are called for. And it’s a reason why I didn’t suggested for haste/quickness from the beginning. Quickness will make all your actions go faster, whilst my suggestion will only work for attack speed.

@Ragnar the Rock
It’s fine if you want to wait until they fix all the useless traits, when i’m trying to do the same thing actually, to make a viable build around our power line that lacks a good GM.
I’m not an game engine engineer so i’m really not sure if it’s easy or hard to implement this. I would like if someone that has knowledge about this to shed some light, I saw that Obtena mentioned some concerns. I really don’t know about the technical aspect of the implementation.

@Saint
Yes, thank you sir, i’m really hyped about this trait line and what it could become, if you think that Radiance is our personal DPS line, I think of Zeal as our Offensive support line.

@Serval
Now that you mentioned elite, I would save a signet for that with a passive that offers us real sustain with a nice active. (real sustain as in maybe, heal 1% of your HP per attack if your target burns) << but that’s another thread.

So as for Fanaticism I know I made it OP in my first post,
I would go for something like:
- Each attack increases yours and your party’s attack speed by 1% for 3s up until a maximum of 15% increased attack speed. I think we can start with this and tweek it from here, also maybe retaliation shouldn’t count for getting the bonus AS.

@ Creepmatic

Group haste buffs are best left for elite skills that have CD’s that can be adjusted.
One that has no CD would be too powerful even if it just effected the guardian.

If you wanted to give the guardian a personal haste buff on a CD as a trait however that could work. The engineer, thief & I think another class all have them. They last for about 3 seconds, trigger off of critical hits, interrupts or knockback/launch effects & have CD’s between 15-30 seconds.

Each of those classes that has one of those ^ haste effects can actually make very good use of it if they pay attention & utilize the buff to unload some quick burst damage.

I would suggest taking a look at them to see how they do it & model something similar.
Or if you insist on a group haste buff you could make it a utility or elite skill with a balanced cool down.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

@ Creepmatic

Group haste buffs are best left for elite skills that have CD’s that can be adjusted.
One that has no CD would be too powerful even if it just effected the guardian.

If you wanted to give the guardian a personal haste buff on a CD as a trait however that could work. The engineer, thief & I think another class all have them. They last for about 3 seconds, trigger off of critical hits, interrupts or knockback/launch effects & have CD’s between 15-30 seconds.

Each of those classes that has one of those ^ haste effects can actually make very good use of it if they pay attention & utilize the buff to unload some quick burst damage.

I would suggest taking a look at them to see how they do it & model something similar.
Or if you insist on a group haste buff you could make it a utility or elite skill with a balanced cool down.

Ok, I think you misunderstand some things.

First, only thief has haste http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Haste
If you are referring to utilities that grant quickness here is the list
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickness

Quickness gives you 50% increased speed on attacks (weapon) and actions (heals, utilities, stomps etc). It breaks stun and lasts 6s, also being accompanied by a temporary drawback, such as a penalty to endurance regeneration, the inability to be healed, or an increase in damage taken while the quickness lasts.

Now here is the guardian version which you can find it in Tome of Wrath http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot%27s_Fervor. Lasts 5s but it gives also 10s of fury on a 1200 radius and the only drawback it’s that it is a tome skill on very big CD.

My suggestion instead is similar to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dual_Wield_Agility. It’s 10% increased attack speed and there is no drawn back or large CD it only has a requirement to wield a mace, axe or sword in your off hand.
So again, Fanaticism will provide a similar bonus, only shared party wide, no penalty only requiring you to attack the target to maintain the buff for yourself and the party. No haste no quickness. Different things my friend.

creepmatic.9435:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

@ Creepmatic

Group haste buffs are best left for elite skills that have CD’s that can be adjusted.
One that has no CD would be too powerful even if it just effected the guardian.

If you wanted to give the guardian a personal haste buff on a CD as a trait however that could work. The engineer, thief & I think another class all have them. They last for about 3 seconds, trigger off of critical hits, interrupts or knockback/launch effects & have CD’s between 15-30 seconds.

Each of those classes that has one of those ^ haste effects can actually make very good use of it if they pay attention & utilize the buff to unload some quick burst damage.

I would suggest taking a look at them to see how they do it & model something similar.
Or if you insist on a group haste buff you could make it a utility or elite skill with a balanced cool down.

Ok, I think you misunderstand some things.

First, only thief has haste http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Haste
If you are referring to utilities that grant quickness here is the list
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickness

Quickness gives you 50% increased speed on attacks (weapon) and actions (heals, utilities, stomps etc). It breaks stun and lasts 6s, also being accompanied by a temporary drawback, such as a penalty to endurance regeneration, the inability to be healed, or an increase in damage taken while the quickness lasts.

Now here is the guardian version which you can find it in Tome of Wrath http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot%27s_Fervor. Lasts 5s but it gives also 10s of fury on a 1200 radius and the only drawback it’s that it is a tome skill on very big CD.

My suggestion instead is similar to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dual_Wield_Agility. It’s 10% increased attack speed and there is no drawn back or large CD it only has a requirement to wield a mace, axe or sword in your off hand.
So again, Fanaticism will provide a similar bonus, only shared party wide, no penalty only requiring you to attack the target to maintain the buff for yourself and the party. No haste no quickness. Different things my friend.

Don’t think you get what I and a few others have been saying.

Any attack speed boost that effects the entire party is to powerful to not have a CD even if it is only 10%.

All attacks in the game also work off of increments of 1/4 second so anything smaller then 50% speed boost may not even register (thats a question for a programmer)

In short your much better off balance wise creating either a trait that gives only the guardian haste with a CD or a utility/elite that gives the group haste with a CD.
Anything without a cool down would just be too hard to balance & too unique thus mandating that every group have a guardian with that trait.

“…All attacks in the game also work off of increments of 1/4 second so anything smaller than 10% attack speed boost may not even register (thats a question for a programmer)…” – Fixed it for you @Ragnar the Rock
Indeed is a question for a programmer, and if by any chance Gaile Gray is lurking our forums and see’s this, I would ask nicely if it’s possible to pass this thread to a programmer or a dev in the name of science?

10% I don’t think it’s that strong tbh. Mesmer already has Temporal Curtain and would be stupid for guardian to provide the same buff as an elite, already has Zealot’s Fervor. If 10% is too strong for the whole party, lower than that is not even worth it as a GM even if it would be possible.

Then I would just make it selfish like:
Burning your target also gives you 10 – 20% increased attack speed for 3s, 10s CD. Burning your target has a 12% – 33% chance to also burn you (this will make Inner Fire a more interesting choice), and prevent you to run it with a Hybrid Burn build, well you could, but it will hurt you big time.

Warriors get a GM trait for a “10%” attack speed boost with an offhand weapon equipped, so unless there’s something magical about every warrior 1h auto attack then boosts that small do/can work.

Serval.6458:

Warriors get a GM trait for a “10%” attack speed boost with an offhand weapon equipped, so unless there’s something magical about every warrior 1h auto attack then boosts that small do/can work.

As a personal effect they have a 10% attack speed boost.

Creep is asking for that + having it effect the entire group without any cool down.

That alone would pretty much mandate that every group have a guardian with that trait.

It would also be quite a bit more powerful in the long run then most elite skills that grant group haste because none of them have cool downs less then 50 seconds.

So let me be clear, I have no problem with a guardian getting a personal haste buff. Heck I would like it. If your going to have the guardian grant haste or an attack speed buff to the entire group however then it needs to be more balanced then what the OP is suggesting.

That was just a response to “All attacks in the game also work off of increments of 1/4 second so anything smaller then 50% speed boost may not even register (thats a question for a programmer)” in regards to functionality, not balance.

Hello again, i’m back with an update on the trait.

v1 Fanaticism (party oriented version)
When activating Virtue of Justice you gain Quickness and Fury. Your allies also get 10% increased attack speed and fury.

Quickness duration: 4s
10% increased attack speed duration: 4s
Fury duration: 4s
Maximum allies affected: 5
Radius: 1200
Fanaticism cool down: between 30 – 40s

Can be further adjusted

v2 Fanaticism (selfish version)

Critical hits on burning targets grant you quickness for 3s

Cool down 15 seconds

Edit: Formatting & Typo

@ Creep, That selfish version I could definitely see working well, it would actually be something I would spec for.

The group version could be alright, though I still think it would be much better off as an activated utility.

What if it were a meditation on say a 50 second CD (without the fury), it could then be effected by traits & via traits still grant fury.

It would also be nice because it would give meditation guardians some more group oriented abilities.

The only thing that I will change on meditations (like critical) is make Litany of Wrath viable. Be it with reduced castime, AoE chill around you or that it pulses stability after the cast! So it can still be countered.

On topic. I also prefer the selfish version more. I would like it to be also a balanced and worth taking party buffer. But it may be hard to implement without a CD, which i’m not really fond off.

The reason I suggested for an Atack speed increase is that guardian needs it probably most than all classes. Just for the simple fact that we don’t have the cc to land our attacks fast enough to get the benefit from Zealous Blade and Litany Healing. (Offensive guard sustain wise)