Guild Wars 2

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

It’s just having the basic consideration to actually help out in dungeons rather than just sitting there in the back doing nothing expecting everyone to do the work for you. Or are you going to defend the guy who just joins and afks at the entrance so he can get the dungeon reward, too?

The only time you do nothing and everyone works for you is if you are AFK. No one advocates that kind of behaviour when teaming. Furthermore, it’s very dishonest suggesting that people who aren’t in a DPS build fall in with that kind of player mentality.

Obtena.7952:

I missed the part where the PVT guy is complaining about DPS teammates … he’s not dictating anything. He doesn’t care what gear his teammates use. He doesn’t care if it takes a minute longer to finish a dungeon. He’s not going to shame you for the build your using. He’s not going to jump on people if they make a mistake. He’s just there to play the game because unlike you, he’s not putting arbitrary goals on non-competitive PVE content. You don’t get it. If you did, you would see why the DPS-only approach isn’t appropriate for everyone.

He’s not dictating anything VERBALLY. He’s dictating the pace of the entire run. That doesn’t take words. Time wasted is just that, wasted. You are NEVER getting that time back EVER.

Add to the list of things he doesn’t care about are how much more work he is putting the group over.

Simple examples of stuff the becomes harder just by prolonging the encounter.
- ac p1 last boss is soooooooooo much easier when you burn him down fast enough that lings don’t reach you at all.
- ac p3 last boss is soooooooooo much easier when he dies before a 2nd set of falling rocks (or before stability runs out – this is so much better ever since I joined a pug with a guard that used hollowed ground and stand your ground)
- ac spider queen is soooooooooo much easier when she dies faster (less web waves)
- cm p3 sureshot is soooooooooo much easier when he dies faster (before stability runs out)
- cof p1 last boss is soooooooooo much easier when he dies faster (less self healing less aoe damage to the group less everything bad)
- cof slave driver is soooooooooo much easier when when he dies before the effigy arrives

Is anything easier the longer it takes to accomplish?

Seetoo.9316:

He’s not dictating anything VERBALLY. He’s dictating the pace of the entire run. That doesn’t take words. Time wasted is just that, wasted. You are NEVER getting that time back EVER.

If the team doesn’t care, what’s the problem? If you care, build your teams better. Furthermore, if you care that much about your time (I mean, THAT much), then WTF are you doing playing an MMO? I can’t THINK of a bigger waste of time. That ‘wasted time’ argument is just a big laugh. I waste more time zoning, respecing and waiting for teams than the difference in time between DPS and non builds.

Players that team with people who are running the builds they want aren’t overly concerned by anything you said, so I doubt that the advantages of DPS builds impact their decision on how they play the game.

Obtena.7952:

Seetoo.9316:

He’s not dictating anything VERBALLY. He’s dictating the pace of the entire run. That doesn’t take words. Time wasted is just that, wasted. You are NEVER getting that time back EVER.

If the team doesn’t care, what’s the problem? If you care, build your teams better. Players that team with people who are running the builds they want aren’t overly concerned by anything you said, so I don’t doubt that the advantages of DPS builds don’t impact their decision on how they play the game.

But whos to say the team doesnt care? Thats why I said if your pugging you should be running builds which arent selfish. You can run whatever you want with friends/guildies so long as they are fine with it.

Heres a test for you. Go pug with your burning build. Everytime you join a group tell them you are running a completely useless build but you find it fun. I wonder how many will kick you and how many will just grumble in silence.

They care, maybe, maybe not. I find people in PUGS don’t tend to care, otherwise they would run with a more organized and dedicated group for PVE. It’s actually quite easy to do that, so bottom line … if you care enough about all this DPS-only, time saving, optimized dungeon runs, you don’t run PUG’s to remove the risk of teaming with people you despise. Again, if you are a DPS-only PVE guy, it’s YOUR fault if you get your time wasted by teaming non-DPS people. Just don’t do it.

Even if they did care, the difference is that they can’t have high expectations for PUG team performance from random players. I’m just happy to complete in some cases. If that means someone needs to run something that’s not DPS, then I would rather they do that then risk some Rambo style with a bunch of unknown team capabilities to save me a couple minutes.

What baffles me about all this is that some guy who runs a burning based build gets touchy because the OP was looking for a good transition from tanky to DPS and some nice people provided him with facts.

Oxxy.7068:

What baffles me about all this is that some guy who runs a burning based build gets touchy because the OP was looking for a good transition from tanky to DPS and some nice people provided him with facts.

I feel bad for him.

Ooh someone called us nice! I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Tis rare on these forums, where people dont like to be told they are wrong.

They always say I am a mean person. /feelers

Seetoo.9316:

Is anything easier the longer it takes to accomplish?

If your team is bad, Lupi is easier if you let them wipe first then solo him, so they’re not just pulling him around everywhere and making bubbles happen. That takes longer, though. And having good DPS is even easier than either of those options.

Obtena.7952:

ODB.6891:

The only merits of non dps builds are to either hold the hands of sub par players or to compensate for self sub par play.

Yes, and there are alot of players don’t play at that level needed for the DPS builds. Those players still need to exercise some level of competence when teaming. Ergo, non-dps builds have merit for them. It’s not a hard concept.

If the idea that non-optimized DPS players doing non-competitive content is so offensive to DPS people, then DPS people have the option to organize their own teams with each other. Forcing this “DPS-only for PVE” philosophy on players isn’t going to have much of an impact when it goes against the VALUE those players place on the ability to choose how they want to play, even if you think it’s bad.

For example, do you think the guy that wants a PVE/WvW build cares if a single build won’t be optimized for either? You simply don’t understand or respect how other people want to play the game. You guys might have a point if you paid the initial cost of the game and compensated people for their time to play. Only then can you tell them what and how to do it. Until then, you have no authority to dictate that people SHOULD be doing something in game, especially for those of you appealing to the sense of shame by insults and downplay of people’s capability.

This has nothing to do with how anyone wants to play the game. You are so busy trying to justify being bad/running a bad build, that you are completely missing the point. This has everything to do with being considerate of others in cooperative game…or at least cooperative content in this game. You don’t solo dungeons..you complete them as a group…which means you depend on your group mates to do their part to make the experience enjoyable. There is nothing enjoyable about carrying others on your back to the finish line when that was not your intended reason for participating.

Your entire assumption that the group does not care that you are bad, just because it is a pug, is extremely flawed logic. Nobody intentionally joins in on a group activity to intentionally have a negative experience. Just because no one says anything to you, does not mean you aren’t being a total tool. Its more likely that they just haven’t identified that you are the dead weight that is slowing the group down or think that it will be less of a hassle to just carry you than it would be to kick and replace. You also seem to be of the opinion that bad builds only slow the group down by a few minutes…that is sometimes true..but depending on how many bad builds/players you have at the same time..that gets exponentially worse. I just witnessed 3 players take about 3 minutes to kill one veteran trash mob in a pug fractal…that’s just ridiculous. Multiply that by an entire run and you can imagine the result. I tend to pug dungeons despite being in a very large guild because I’m just lazy like that…I don’t like organizing my own group and I don’t want pressure to stay in the group if the others are bad. I often find decent groups with minimal bads…and I can tell you that others appreciate smooth and quick runs in pugs even more so than in organized groups.

No one is trying to tell you how to play, but it wouldn’t hurt to show some common courtesy and make your presence be a positive addition to the group that you volunteered to join. You don’t have to run the best build..there is plenty of room for compromise…just be reasonably effective. When your damage is so low that a mobs regen outpaces your damage..there might just be a problem.

To address the OP’s question, I run a 15/25/0/30/0 setup with greatsword/hammer (I don’t like the aesthetics of the 1 handed sword) with around 2300 armour and 14.3k health. Survivability comes from dodging, aegis and blind (on trash) with shelter and renewed focus as clutch moves.

As to the other points in this topic. I run fractals 48 on my Ele with a regular group that also does AC/CoE/etc. I still use the 0/10/0/30/30 setup but with full zerker gear as over time I’ve realised that the best support is providing the odd water field, might stacks, fury, AoE missile reflect and some soft CC on some bosses (chill/cripple) to give the melee some breathing space.

I’m also part of a very friendly, casual guild. When I do runs with them, I tend to run a 0/15/30/20/5 spec on my guardian with knight’s gear or take my bunkery engineer along. Why? Because they don’t care if a run through CoF1 takes 25 minutes and nor do I. They’re a nice bunch of folks and we have a laugh whilst we do it. I take high survivability setups along for those runs so I can switch off and revive people easily.

I don’t PUG much (if at all) but if I did I’d take my dps setup along.

TL,DR Know your group’s expectations and take what they’re expecting In most PUG’s that means high dps setups.

swiftpaw.6397:

PvE burning build. 110% done with this thread.

PvE burning build with F1 as only burning source.

ODB.6891:

Your entire assumption that the group does not care that you are bad, just because it is a pug, is extremely flawed logic.

Not sure that’s what I said (or meant if that’s how it reads). Still, my view on PUGs is a more pragmatic approach than an academic one.

1. PUGs are random people with no experience playing with each other or perhaps even the content. This results in more variation in performance than an engineered team who plays together.

2. There isn’t one single definition of what everyone considers as the transition point from a good to a bad player either. I don’t even think such a thing exists … if it does, ‘wearing zerker gear’ wouldn’t be enough to define it.

That’s for me where DPS-only PVE argument breaks down. There is no concensus on the border between bad and good (there isn’t one, it’s simply a spectrum) and there is a difference in philosophies to playing; no single one dominates because a group of players place specific significance on certain results it gets you.

ODB.6891:

No one is trying to tell you how to play, but it wouldn’t hurt to show some common courtesy and make your presence be a positive addition to the group that you volunteered to join. You don’t have to run the best build..there is plenty of room for compromise…just be reasonably effective.

People are reasonably effective NOT running DPS builds in many situations; some are MORE effective if they aren’t running DPS builds. Therefore, they are doing everything you are asking them to do here.

Dub.1273:

swiftpaw.6397:

PvE burning build. 110% done with this thread.

PvE burning build with F1 as only burning source.

Ah so true. I stand corrected.

220% done*