Guild Wars 2

Ghotistyx.6942:

Black Box.9312:

That’s half of the problem. Lowering shield cooldowns does nothing to solve the issue of focus just being flat out superior for both damage and support roles. For a lot of people, this is a bit depressing, because the shield is kind of a trademark symbol of the Guardian as a class.

Shield 5 heals and knocks back, so it’s understandable if it doesn’t do damage. Shield 4 gives aoe Prot, so it’s also understandable if it isn’t a high burst skill. Obviously focus and certainly torch are going to deal higher damage. However, neither torch nor focus provide cc, and only traited focus gives prot, at a much lower uptime. Neither focus nor torch will provide ally projectile defense. I’ve saved myself and allies from killshots and rapid fires back when it was 40s untraited. Now I can do that twice as often. Untraited #4 had 16.6% uptime in pvw. Now it can have around 30% without boon duration. With Mace, boon duration, and traited HtL, you can have a great uptime on prot and regen. Paired with sword you can have frequent projectile defense, and combined with scepter you can midline and bring support.

An ele with an offhand focus can do everything you just mentioned with the shield, all while sacrificing much less damage and utility for their own build. I would take that over a guardian with a shield 100% of the time.

Ghotistyx.6942:

600u is shout range. Any instance shouts are useful, SoJ is applicable. SoA works at any range. Shield is a defensive tool, not an offensive one. Imagine you or a near ally getting focused by two LB Rangers. Torch and focus won’t save you, and trying to burst won’t fix this problem. Ultimately, if you’re in a situation where shield cannot help you and you cannot change the situation, you haven’t prepared enough and have been outplayed. Every weapon, build, profession, etc has a counter as well as a niche. It’s up to you to plan our improvise around them by using the tools given to you.

Also, just so that no one forgets, in a highly mobile combat system such as this, you can always position the enemy between yourself and your allies in order to hit with the cone. Even 90° works, you don’t all have to stack on the same side.

600u is shout range, but shouts work in a 360 degree radius around you. This isn’t even remotely comparable. I don’t need to physically reposition my character’s face in order to support allies, I just need to get decently close. This is like stating that a slice of cake has as many calories as the entire cake does simply because both are representative of cake.

Without delving into extremely specialized hypotheticals, in short, the shield is a subpar defensive weapon when compared to even the torch.

The entire point of my argument is the reality that 600u is not enough space to reliably make use of shield #4’s cone effect as you’re a melee combatant and your allies are, in most scenarios, going to be outside of that range. You can’t just get close and hit a button like shouts, you need to manually position yourself on top of getting close.

Is it hard? No, but it is an inherent disadvantage to using the skill that is not offset by either the friendly benefits nor the damage of the skill in question. The input is greater than the output. In a balanced world, every ability’s skill input should be equivalent with its reward output.

When the skill input required to have the shield function correctly is higher than the skill input required to have the focus and torch function correctly, and when the overall power threshold for the shield is significantly lower than the torch and the focus, then the shield is broken.

This is a simple fact.

Each offhand has a skill that has 1200+ range, and one that’s 600 or less.

Focus 4, Torch 4, Shield 5 all work at 1200 range
Focus 5 is 240, Torch 5 is 450, Shield 4 is 600.

Is the positioning maybe slightly harder? Maybe, but it shouldn’t be too difficult to land a 600u cone on either the enemy, allies, or both (dodge notwithstanding). Watching any form of content shows plenty of opportunity to hit allies with your prot or absorb some projectiles. If you’re not in position to assist when you’d like, honestly it’s your fault, not the skills fault. You either over extended, or got out maneuvered and out played (and I’m not taking about you specific, but rather you generic).

I mean, I’m not going to say no to buffs, but people are acting like shield is unusable, and won’t ever be usable unless x, y, and z are changed.

Black Box.9312:

An ele with an offhand focus can do everything you just mentioned with the shield, all while sacrificing much less damage and utility for their own build. I would take that over a guardian with a shield 100% of the time.

I’m sure once guardians get attunements and only have 2 possible offhand options, our shield will be just as good as ele focus

funny how the most iconic weapon of the guard is the most useless one.

how about, make guards able to move when channeling shield 5.
change shield4 altogether , perhaps take the blocking skill/animation of the mace and use it as shield4

then the next question is, what do you pair the shield with? you are taking a group weapon (shield) to pair with either the sword(single target), scepter (single target) or mace( a little groupish).

which means the only viable option is to go mace shield (tough luck for all those holy-light-bringer flame-searing might-wielding knight wannabes… no sword shield for ya)

and finally if we want to see what it is used for

for small scale pvp/wvw : there are better options in focus and torch. theres a reason why everyone runs sword scept focus torch medi guard
for large scale wvw : there are better options in hammer and staff or greatsword.

so it seems like the shield is just for aesthetic purposes

TLDR: MAKE SWORD SHIELD VIABLE kitten

Zackie.8923:

funny how the most iconic weapon of the guard is the most useless one.

(…)

TLDR: MAKE SWORD SHIELD VIABLE kitten

They can’t do it, just get a DPS weapon and high damage build(only viable builds), only way to play this game, and if ur playing adefensive build ur leeching form your group, this patch was a nerf to some defensive aspects of the guardian only way is to play it has a only dps class, shield is out of their “to fix list” most probabaly….

This patch is the easy (s)kill mode, all u need is to invest in damage, reason why most of non dps stats are mostly useless.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Black Box.9312:

An ele with an offhand focus can do everything you just mentioned with the shield, all while sacrificing much less damage and utility for their own build. I would take that over a guardian with a shield 100% of the time.

I’m sure once guardians get attunements and only have 2 possible offhand options, our shield will be just as good as ele focus

That’s a terrible excuse. If anything, the fact that our shield only has 2 skills instead of 8 should reinforce the idea of those 2 skills being stronger than the ele’s offhand skills.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Each offhand has a skill that has 1200+ range, and one that’s 600 or less.

Focus 4, Torch 4, Shield 5 all work at 1200 range
Focus 5 is 240, Torch 5 is 450, Shield 4 is 600.

Is the positioning maybe slightly harder? Maybe, but it shouldn’t be too difficult to land a 600u cone on either the enemy, allies, or both (dodge notwithstanding). Watching any form of content shows plenty of opportunity to hit allies with your prot or absorb some projectiles. If you’re not in position to assist when you’d like, honestly it’s your fault, not the skills fault. You either over extended, or got out maneuvered and out played (and I’m not taking about you specific, but rather you generic).

I mean, I’m not going to say no to buffs, but people are acting like shield is unusable, and won’t ever be usable unless x, y, and z are changed.

I’m just going to post the end of my last post again because you either misread what I posted, or decided to completely ignore all but a small portion of what I had to say, as what you’ve posted pretty much has nothing to do with my reply.

Is it hard? No, but it is an inherent disadvantage to using the skill that is not offset by either the friendly benefits nor the damage of the skill in question. The input is greater than the output. In a balanced world, every ability’s skill input should be equivalent with its reward output.

When the skill input required to have the shield function correctly is higher than the skill input required to have the focus and torch function correctly, and when the overall power threshold for the shield is significantly lower than the torch and the focus, then the shield is broken.

This is a simple fact.

To summarize, again:

Compared to the options provided by torch and focus, and compared to the ease of use provided by torch and focus, the shield requires too much for too little reward.

The shield is not powerful enough, nor does it provide enough, to compensate for the additional checklist of requirements needed to make shield function.

Sword+Shield brings a lot of projectile defense. They each need some QoL improvements I think, and then that build could really take off.

@BlackBox
Eles can’t swap weapons, so the versatility needed by the focus is of course going to be greater than the shield, where we have options to swap weapons. Comparing what an ele can do to guardian is one of the worst cross class comparisons, when those comparisons are already terrible. An ele, warrior, engi, Ranger, whatever being able to do something is completely different from a guardian being able to do the same thing.

@Kerithlan
I don’t believe I misread anything. I think you might be underestimating what shield offers, some bugs or the like are overshadowing the design concept, or perhaps you’re trying to use shield where is not best used. I wouldn’t be able to tell which, if any, is the problem. I think shield has suffered from neglect, not because it’s bad, but because it’s best uses haven’t been discovered, or perhaps they’re being held back by something unintentional (like the bubble duration, etc). I’m not trying to say shield is perfect, just that the concept behind it’s design isn’t inherently weaker than our other options (which would refer back to your i/o idea, though even that in itself is flawed from a balance standpoint).

Ghotistyx.6942:

Sword+Shield brings a lot of projectile defense. They each need some QoL improvements I think, and then that build could really take off.

@BlackBox
Eles can’t swap weapons, so the versatility needed by the focus is of course going to be greater than the shield, where we have options to swap weapons. Comparing what an ele can do to guardian is one of the worst cross class comparisons, when those comparisons are already terrible. An ele, warrior, engi, Ranger, whatever being able to do something is completely different from a guardian being able to do the same thing.

Fine. Compare our shield to literally any other offhand in the game. I think you’ll be hard-pressed to find something that is less useful at least situationally.

New proposals:

Skill 4: Shield dash/Finisher:
Variant 1:
By using 4, you charge forward. When you arrive in front of the enemy, your character uses a blast finisher(by jumping up and bash the enemy), which also does more dmg than leap of faith(because skill 4>3), stuns for 1 sec, and put protection(at least 5 seconds) on your allies. The finisher can be activated before arriving by pressing 4 again.

Variant 2:
You charge forward, and if you arrive in front of your enemy, you stick to him(and continue follow him if he moves away) and do 4 times damage with your shield(not by swinging the shield, but by using the force of your charge).
The first hit will provide a blast finisher, and allies around you will receive protection(5s).
The damage is a little bit higher than variant 1, because it doesn’t stun.

The skill icon also looks more like a shield charge anyways.

Skill 5: Your character no longer needs to channel it, but creates a dome that have the same max duration on the place you have used it.

[Skill 4 is inspired by Vindictus: Fiona’s shield dash]

I really don’t think the devs are going to dramatically change any weapon skills, and I don’t think they really need to either. All shield needs is a #5 bug fix, revert #4 PvP duration back to pve values, and then some love for the shield trait. 180 toughness is pretty garbage. Especially in PvP where shields don’t add to overall armor. Shield skills as blast finishers would be my favorite for group support, or make shield skills reflect projectiles. Something worthy of a master trait that only affects 2 skills.

Something like this would be nice:

Shield of Judgement
.5 cast – 20s
No Dmg
Taunts 3 Enemies
Give Protection to 3 Allies
600 Range

Shield could be really fun and usable..

Ghotistyx.6942:

Guardian shield isn’t terrible. Shield 4 has 25-30% prot uptime and a 1.0 power coefficient on a 600u cone. If you want more damage, add more power. If you still want more damage, use a weapon built for damage instead of support.

Shield 5 gives a control effect, aoe projectile defense, and possibly heals on a reasonable cooldown. Admittedly it has some bugs and QoL changes to work through, but the design itself is solid.

I mean, it’s not like people are complaining that GS doesn’t give enough Prot, instead they switch to a weapon or set up that gives them what they need.

If they want the guardian to be a Frontline support shield 4 shouldn’t be a frontal cone it should be a circular PBAoE (not even, it’d be fine if it was just the protection going in a circle). The #5 needs to not be channeled for the whole duration or at the very least follow the guard during the channel to compete with SoA and WoR, and the fact that the guardian becomes a target dummy for melee and non projectiles for the full duration of the skill kills it.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Guardian shield isn’t terrible. Shield 4 has 25-30% prot uptime and a 1.0 power coefficient on a 600u cone. If you want more damage, add more power. If you still want more damage, use a weapon built for damage instead of support.

Shield 5 gives a control effect, aoe projectile defense, and possibly heals on a reasonable cooldown. Admittedly it has some bugs and QoL changes to work through, but the design itself is solid.

I mean, it’s not like people are complaining that GS doesn’t give enough Prot, instead they switch to a weapon or set up that gives them what they need.

If they want the guardian to be a Frontline support shield 4 shouldn’t be a frontal cone it should be a circular PBAoE (not even, it’d be fine if it was just the protection going in a circle). The #5 needs to not be channeled for the whole duration or at the very least follow the guard during the channel to compete with SoA and WoR, and the fact that the guardian becomes a target dummy for melee and non projectiles for the full duration of the skill kills it.

He’s gotta be the only guy in the world that doesn’t understand this. Thank you.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Each offhand has a skill that has 1200+ range, and one that’s 600 or less.

Focus 4, Torch 4, Shield 5 all work at 1200 range
Focus 5 is 240, Torch 5 is 450, Shield 4 is 600.

Is the positioning maybe slightly harder? Maybe, but it shouldn’t be too difficult to land a 600u cone on either the enemy, allies, or both (dodge notwithstanding). Watching any form of content shows plenty of opportunity to hit allies with your prot or absorb some projectiles. If you’re not in position to assist when you’d like, honestly it’s your fault, not the skills fault. You either over extended, or got out maneuvered and out played (and I’m not taking about you specific, but rather you generic).

I mean, I’m not going to say no to buffs, but people are acting like shield is unusable, and won’t ever be usable unless x, y, and z are changed.

Black Box.9312:

An ele with an offhand focus can do everything you just mentioned with the shield, all while sacrificing much less damage and utility for their own build. I would take that over a guardian with a shield 100% of the time.

I’m sure once guardians get attunements and only have 2 possible offhand options, our shield will be just as good as ele focus

Since we’re comparing offhand weapons here…

I would gladly trade my two shield skills for Engi’s Gear Shield’s 3s aoe block.
I would gladly trade my two shield skills for Ele’s single Whirling Wind skill.

Cone vs circle is a non issue.

If your gud

…but since it is a frontal cone, maybe instead of buffing allies it should debuff enemies.

Say, weakness, perhaps? To encourage actually being in front and facing the enemy.

Saiyan.1704:

I would gladly trade my two shield skills for Engi’s Gear Shield’s 3s aoe block.
I would gladly trade my two shield skills for Ele’s single Whirling Wind skill.

10/10 would fap to guardian shield with both of those skills.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Sword+Shield brings a lot of projectile defense. They each need some QoL improvements I think, and then that build could really take off.

The weakness in this argument is in the nature of the 2 skills that provide projectile defense. Swords are a short weapon, meaning you’ll be in melee combat regularly. Shield 5 has knock back, which majorly disrupts melee combat. Even if we assume the skills are meant to be used while gap closing, the rooting aspect of both, which introduces activation latency due to how the server/client handles those skills, coupled with guardian’s generally slow movement, makes the concept counter intuitive. Their short durations also makes their timing difficult in most cases.

And it becomes even less coherent once in melee range. Sword 3 is passable for its damage output, which doesn’t disrupt melee Candace, but Shield 5 knocks your enemy away in order to gain the protective bubble. This is of questionable utility for a melee config, since typically WANT to keep your enemy in range and just counter the ranged attacks.

This is why I think the Guard shield is in such a bad place…… its skills are geared for back line, but shield’s primary benefits (extra armor) would be better seen in melee range. So we have a back line defense weapon in a position that makes better use of offensive power, on a class that has the majority of its design built for front line offense and support. Focus is more of a mid-line opening weapon, but its abilities are equally effective at melee range. If anything, Focus is a tad OP.

^indeed.

Shield works poorly because it’s defensive skill’s are very weak compared with the offense capabilities that every class has (some still have to much compared with others), and like i said before, playing a defensive non damage weapon is a huge mistake with the actual game mechanics and builds players that are using it doesn’t help and becomes more of a burden, even the traits are very weak in action (WvW).

Shield benefits from a stat that is almost unreliable, and will be more a drawn back because it take away the only thing that matters in this game that is output damage for a clean win, a guardian that invests in toughness in the actual game wont do well and either wont be the defensive anchor for nearby allies thus being the one leeching more from the group than he is helping.

(edit:)
I like to play mace/shield guard, or i liked to play it when was a bit weak but was very acceptable in some rare circumstances, now that circumstances went away and this weapon combination don’t work in the practice now it feels anet is rather shortening the effort by dumbing it down al a player needs is pic class that kills faster with lesser effort.

Wonder if Anet removed this weapon from guardian….

Ghotistyx.6942:

Cone vs circle is a non issue.

If your gud

I’m glad we’ve reached the point in this conversation where we’re all contributing useful feedback.

For reals tho, this kind of conversation has popped up multiple times. Do people honestly think the cone effect is what’s holding shield, or even just shield 4 back? There are multiple ways you can position yourself to make the most of the skill. It like people are refusing to see anything but the negatives. The weapon is not nearly as bad as the rhetoric here is making it seem.

Ghotistyx.6942:

For reals tho, this kind of conversation has popped up multiple times. Do people honestly think the cone effect is what’s holding shield, or even just shield 4 back? There are multiple ways you can position yourself to make the most of the skill. It like people are refusing to see anything but the negatives. The weapon is not nearly as bad as the rhetoric here is making it seem.

Not sure why that cone effect discussion was brought up but it’s definitely not the issue, nor will it make a big difference if it was changed.

Players still use Shield for certain PvE Boss scenarios – to my understanding – so no, it’s not God awful and useless. The Guardian’s iconic weapon is just bad to the point where everyone complained enough about it, provoking Arenanet to make CD changes. The issue is the functionality of the Shield itself – not performing well and often being completely useless in every other situation.

Elementalists are mobile during their Whirling Winds – that 1 skill attunement is better than both shield #4 and #5
Engi on Gear Shield is mobile during their AoE Block effects – that 1 skill is better than both Shield #4 and #5
Warriors are mobile during their Shield AoE Blocks – that 1 skill is better than both Shield #4 and #5

Guardians absolutely need to be mobile during Shield #5’s bubble effect. Otherwise, Shield’s functionality simply isn’t there.

Valid point. It’s something I mentioned myself earlier in the thread. I’ll just go ahead and relist all the shield changes I think should happen, either for QoL purposes or what not.

• Shield 4 should be unsplit and use pve values.
• Shield 5 should last the full 4 seconds
• Shield 5 should no longer root the guardian beyond a reasonable aftercast delay
• Shield 5 could be a blast finisher when popping the bubble, especially if the bubble is properly removed when popped.

The blast finisher isn’t absolutely necessary, but makes sense. The rest of the changes would allow the shield to function as written. It’s the non advertised functionality that is making shield unappealing, not necessarily the concept as a weapon.

Why not make the shield throwable on the ground within 900 range like an aoe to create a bubble and make it pulse boons from skills 4 if used that way.
If not thrown skill 4 will be used in the cone fashion.
This will have such good mobile support. With really good functionality.
Just a new perspective to improve our shield.

Change shield 4 into “path of light”

It would be a leap forward. You gain protection and leave behind a lingering trail that grants allies protection and blind enemies. Makes it simultaneously harder to use but also more useful.

Stalwart Defender: Shield skills weaken enemies.

ArchonWing.9480:

Change shield 4 into “path of light”

It would be a leap forward. You gain protection and leave behind a lingering trail that grants allies protection and blind enemies. Makes it simultaneously harder to use but also more useful.

Stalwart Defender: Shield skills weaken enemies.

I kinda like that.

Shootsfoot.9276:

ArchonWing.9480:

Change shield 4 into “path of light”

It would be a leap forward. You gain protection and leave behind a lingering trail that grants allies protection and blind enemies. Makes it simultaneously harder to use but also more useful.

Stalwart Defender: Shield skills weaken enemies.

I kinda like that.

Me too but that would take developmental time. Lesbihonest, Arenanet isn’t going to spend time and money for something like that. They’ve never added or changed SFX on on a weapon standared before. No reason to start now with the Guardian Shield.

A dev finally noticed the “movement bug” after 2 years. It’s time they reversed that decision and give us that QoL aspect we’ve loved since launch.

I think at the moment the shield is really underperforming and that there isn’t any reason to pick a shield over a focus, considering that the Blindness from Focus #4 and the Barrier from Focus #5 also offer complete damage negation.

I personally think there could be several ways to go for buffing shield. Personally, I’d like to see it as a protective/team support weapon, so that it not overlaps with focus or torch.

Ideas: Shield #4 also destroys projectiles, like the Dragon Hunter Longbow #3.
Shield #5 duration fixed. Allies inside gain regeneration.
Shield Traits: Using a shield Skill grants Stability to the Guardian and procs the active heal of Virtue of Resolve.

Well, in PvP I actually prefer Shield over Focus as a Bunker Guardian due to the CC and prot. It’s extremely useful for keeping points protected, interrupting foes and protecting teammates from stomps.

I have to agree with people that it’s offensive capabilities are extremely limited, but I like what Anet has done with the current Shield for Guardian.

In PvE is doesn’t have much use, I agree with that. So don’t use it. I use it in PvP for some fun and I like the visual aesthetics so I use it in PvE aswell.

People crying about it’s effectiveness are using it wrong. Just don’t use it in PvE if you don’t want to, PvE isn’t that hard so if you do like shield just roll with it. Everything suits casual PvE. For offensive PvP fighting as said, it’s doesnt offer any benefits over Focus. As a Bunker it does.

Shield is fine the way it is, changing it with more damage would just make it better then Focus which shouldn’t be done. Adding more healing or boons to it would be ridiculous since it already offers some interesting gameplay.

IMO, seems to me shields main problem is skill 5, I wonder how this would factor instead:

Shield Lock: become rooted in place and unable to move, incoming damage is translated into 0 just like endure pain, you are still vulnerable to condi, and are still vulnerable to most control effects except launch & knockback.

Press shield #5 again to create an aoe taunt that scales from 2-4 secs with damage taken (25,50,75% of total hp value), MO: has the same CD, radius and channel time as shield #5’s initial knock-back at present, its shield #5 in reverse, simply, with a twist.

Notes:
Unlike war shield #5 you wont be blocking, this intentionally wont sync with MotP to maintain current balance and might levels.
Sitting on points could become a problem, shortening channel time might help it fit.
Defensive counter to power based spikes in damage, weak to a Condition dump, if misused, can create opportunities to be CC’ed by opponents.
The counter-play fits pretty well with where guardian is currently in the meta.

Be that as it may, it should still have big drawbacks for its effect , a longer CD, shorter duration of channel etc. still, because GW2 is a movement based game, being locked into place sounds like a nice trade off, it has counter-play available already on that point alone.

First to admit its a half-baked idea, but I would kind of like to see shield more prominent on guard. Taunt on hit with shield #4 w/o any other changes could also be very intriguing. Maybe that would work instead?

Saiyan.1704:

Shootsfoot.9276:

ArchonWing.9480:

Change shield 4 into “path of light”

It would be a leap forward. You gain protection and leave behind a lingering trail that grants allies protection and blind enemies. Makes it simultaneously harder to use but also more useful.

Stalwart Defender: Shield skills weaken enemies.

I kinda like that.

Me too but that would take developmental time. Lesbihonest, Arenanet isn’t going to spend time and money for something like that. They’ve never added or changed SFX on on a weapon standared before. No reason to start now with the Guardian Shield.

A dev finally noticed the “movement bug” after 2 years. It’s time they reversed that decision and give us that QoL aspect we’ve loved since launch.

Sure, but I resent laziness being used as an excuse to keep things boring, especially when a lot of us are considering shelling out money for a new expansion. I prefer to aim higher and compromise with reality later. =p

You can buff the abilties we have, but IMO they’ll always be inferior to the other two. It’s not like torch where changing the game around allowed torch to become so much stronger all of a sudden. Torch is a damage weapon, and focus is a defensive/burst one. What can shield do then?

In my opinion, if shield had mobility, then it would provide an extra edge over the other offhands, regardless of it being weaker or not still gives it more of a niche and flavor even if it’s not objectively as strong.

ArchonWing.9480:

Saiyan.1704:

Shootsfoot.9276:

ArchonWing.9480:

Change shield 4 into “path of light”

It would be a leap forward. You gain protection and leave behind a lingering trail that grants allies protection and blind enemies. Makes it simultaneously harder to use but also more useful.

Stalwart Defender: Shield skills weaken enemies.

I kinda like that.

Me too but that would take developmental time. Lesbihonest, Arenanet isn’t going to spend time and money for something like that. They’ve never added or changed SFX on on a weapon standared before. No reason to start now with the Guardian Shield.

A dev finally noticed the “movement bug” after 2 years. It’s time they reversed that decision and give us that QoL aspect we’ve loved since launch.

Sure, but I resent laziness being used as an excuse to keep things boring, especially when a lot of us are considering shelling out money for a new expansion. I prefer to aim higher and compromise with reality later. =p

You can buff the abilties we have, but IMO they’ll always be inferior to the other two. It’s not like torch where changing the game around allowed torch to become so much stronger all of a sudden. Torch is a damage weapon, and focus is a defensive/burst one. What can shield do then?

In my opinion, if shield had mobility, then it would provide an extra edge over the other offhands, regardless of it being weaker or not still gives it more of a niche and flavor even if it’s not objectively as strong.

Isn’t mobility the core of the staff?
Maybe we should consider focus 5 with shield 5?
The projectile reflects makes sense with focus skills, and the barrier makes more sense with a shield off-hand.

Arkblue.6129:

ArchonWing.9480:

Saiyan.1704:

Shootsfoot.9276:

ArchonWing.9480:

Change shield 4 into “path of light”

It would be a leap forward. You gain protection and leave behind a lingering trail that grants allies protection and blind enemies. Makes it simultaneously harder to use but also more useful.

Stalwart Defender: Shield skills weaken enemies.

I kinda like that.

Me too but that would take developmental time. Lesbihonest, Arenanet isn’t going to spend time and money for something like that. They’ve never added or changed SFX on on a weapon standared before. No reason to start now with the Guardian Shield.

A dev finally noticed the “movement bug” after 2 years. It’s time they reversed that decision and give us that QoL aspect we’ve loved since launch.

Sure, but I resent laziness being used as an excuse to keep things boring, especially when a lot of us are considering shelling out money for a new expansion. I prefer to aim higher and compromise with reality later. =p

You can buff the abilties we have, but IMO they’ll always be inferior to the other two. It’s not like torch where changing the game around allowed torch to become so much stronger all of a sudden. Torch is a damage weapon, and focus is a defensive/burst one. What can shield do then?

In my opinion, if shield had mobility, then it would provide an extra edge over the other offhands, regardless of it being weaker or not still gives it more of a niche and flavor even if it’s not objectively as strong.

Isn’t mobility the core of the staff?
Maybe we should consider focus 5 with shield 5?
The projectile reflects makes sense with focus skills, and the barrier makes more sense with a shield off-hand.

Staff isn’t a mobility weapon. It has no movement skills and the swiftness is a symbol you have to stand in to get a full effect. It’s more support than anything else.

As for focus 5, that ship has sailed; so no point in screwing that up because focus is fine the way it is.

ArchonWing.9480:

Staff isn’t a mobility weapon. It has no movement skills and the swiftness is a symbol you have to stand in to get a full effect. It’s more support than anything else.

As for focus 5, that ship has sailed; so no point in screwing that up because focus is fine the way it is.

Well, in that case, I’d suggest slightly increasing the anti-ranged identity of the shield, since mobility is quite hard to implement with the current shield abilities.
Shield 4 could reflect projectiles, considering that is a wave and thus it would be hard to time it right. However, it might be hard to implement tech wise (well, not really considering that Longbow 3 for the Dragon Hunter works the same way).
In that case, I’d just reduce the CD.

For Shield 5, as many have suggested, the priority is to fix the duration. Also, there is this bug reported in the wiki, though i don’t know if it has been fixed or not: After using Shield of Absorption 2 (healing explosion) “The shield will still persist for the two-second cast time, despite the graphical effect.”
Another good thing would make it a blast finisher, so that ending prematurely will combo with the Light Field for Area Retaliation, or you could just use it for blast a field.

But the priority should be fixing the duration.

The weapon doesn’t need a complete revamp, just a few tweaks. What they need to do to this weapon become viable, in my opinion:

• Add a new effect on #4. In my personal opinion, it should be 5 seconds of cripple, which is the weakest control skill, but will help a lot with the weapon nature (one of main problems using shield with mace is keeping the opponents in melee). It would make to use shield more viable with sword and scepter as well. With this addition, also wouldn’t be necessary to increase the cooldown of this skill, unlike other effects like daze or knockdown;
• Remove the split between PvP and PvE of #4. This skill is already weak in PvE/WvW, this split only make this skill worthless in PvP;
• Fix the long date bug on #5 dome. It should last 4 seconds instead of 2 seconds if you finish the channel;
• Remove the root on #5. This skill really doesn’t need to root;
• Increase the healing scaling on dome detonation. Healing power is worthless with this skill. It should be from 1300 to 2500 with 1k healing power;
• Add a new effect on the shield trait. I would say 5 seconds of regeneration. This would push this trait to be more viable to use with shield as support weapon, but won’t be really powerful with other type of build. Now there is no reason to use the trait over Strength in Numbers (add almost the same amount of defense, but to nearby allies as well), or maybe even Communal Defenses.

In that way:

• The shield would become more viable to use outside support, but its main role would still be support. You could finally use shield with sword, for example, using as control weapon and relevant comparation with focus in terms of defense, but a whole different application;
• The shield would finally have bigger impact as support than focus. Right now, focus have a beter role supporting than shield because how wonky their skills are;
• The shield would be finally descent. This is what we all want.

Amins.3710:

Something like this would be nice:

Shield of Judgement
.5 cast – 20s
No Dmg
Taunts 3 Enemies
Give Protection to 3 Allies
600 Range

Shield could be really fun and usable..

We need a Taunt!

My own suggestion since we’re doing it:

Judgement Charge:
Block attacks for 2~4 seconds, gain 1 second of Super Speed. During block channel and up to 1s later you may reactivate #4 to activate Shield of Judgement.

Shield of Judgement:
Jump forward 300 units and slams the ground with a strike of your fist, dealing damage, causing a blast finisher and giving 5s of Protection; 200~300 unit radius.

Same cooldown.

can u guys keep the absortion bubble in those ideias :| ? in range gank situation it is a life saver

@Amins.3710, shield already works as a taunt weapon, when the adversary notices guardian is using a shield they always think as a free bag :P….

Koen Lenders.5971:

Well, in PvP I actually prefer Shield over Focus as a Bunker Guardian due to the CC and prot. It’s extremely useful for keeping points protected, interrupting foes and protecting teammates from stomps.

I have to agree with people that it’s offensive capabilities are extremely limited, but I like what Anet has done with the current Shield for Guardian.

In PvE is doesn’t have much use, I agree with that. So don’t use it. I use it in PvP for some fun and I like the visual aesthetics so I use it in PvE aswell.

People crying about it’s effectiveness are using it wrong. Just don’t use it in PvE if you don’t want to, PvE isn’t that hard so if you do like shield just roll with it. Everything suits casual PvE. For offensive PvP fighting as said, it’s doesnt offer any benefits over Focus. As a Bunker it does.

Shield is fine the way it is, changing it with more damage would just make it better then Focus which shouldn’t be done. Adding more healing or boons to it would be ridiculous since it already offers some interesting gameplay.

Thats a really myopic way to dismiss a topic. PvE has been in sore need of QoL and Balance because of the frequent breaking of skills to comply with PvP issues. PvE is the most heavily played mode, yet suffers from the most fundamental balance problems, leading to the hyper distilled zerks meta that dominates every aspect of it.

So this weapon has one use, in one mode, in type of build, for one specific objective goal. I would consider that a major usability failure, considering only 3 classes currently use it (5 if you include elite spec), and the one that was intended to use it the most barely uses it at all.

Look guys, even Revenant offhand sword has more blocks than Guardian shield!

/cry

Aeolus.3615:

@Amins.3710, shield already works as a taunt weapon, when the adversary notices guardian is using a shield they always think as a free bag :P….

Took me a second read.

hahaha

nice.

Saiyan.1704:

Shootsfoot.9276:

ArchonWing.9480:

Change shield 4 into “path of light”

It would be a leap forward. You gain protection and leave behind a lingering trail that grants allies protection and blind enemies. Makes it simultaneously harder to use but also more useful.

Stalwart Defender: Shield skills weaken enemies.

I kinda like that.

Me too but that would take developmental time. Lesbihonest, Arenanet isn’t going to spend time and money for something like that. They’ve never added or changed SFX on on a weapon standared before. No reason to start now with the Guardian Shield.

A dev finally noticed the “movement bug” after 2 years. It’s time they reversed that decision and give us that QoL aspect we’ve loved since launch.

Lies they took their time to break necro axe animation

Aeolus.3615:

can u guys keep the absortion bubble in those ideias :| ? in range gank situation it is a life saver

@Amins.3710, shield already works as a taunt weapon, when the adversary notices guardian is using a shield they always think as a free bag :P….

One iteration I particularly liked is keeping the character of the absorption bubble on #5, but change it this way.
On cast, you stand still (gain stability if traited) and create the projectile dome.
On second cast, you detonate the dome knocking back enemies and damaging them.
If you don’t cast, the dome explodes healing allies inside.

For skill 4, I must admit it’s already nice enough, but I still think it should also destroy projectiles it hits.

My idea for shield would be leave #5 as-is but fix the bugs so it’s duration works properly, make it a light field like it should be.

4 can keep the dps portion, but it should also be more supportive instead of just “slap a tad of protection on it, call it a day”.

I imagine #4 working somewhat similar to mace
3 but not as “teh suck” as mace 3. Give it a pulsing protection boon around the guard on a channel, so that if it pulses full duration, the protection is roughly the same duration as now (I still feel it needs longer duration, but that’s debatable I suppose) but give it a secondary feature, you can click it again while channeling to do an aoe burst like mace #3 in case you are getting hit too much and need to stop channeling. Could add a small knockdown in small radius if warranted to further give shield some defensive use (not knockback, just a knockdown). This gives you more flexibility with shield. you’re not wasting it as a solely defensive weapon, but not having a skill on it that has identity issues either. It now has clear purpose: defend me or dps for me

+1

Most of the ideas are nice,especially slow on shield 4 “i mean if traited”.Some more love for shield would be reasonable.

I am not going to propose “a fix” for shield. There are multiple possibilities to provide a bit more functionality that I will propose.

Shield #4 Skill: Add a debuff or another boon. Maybe the “judgment” of the shield would be Weakness or Slow on foes. Daze should also be considered. As it stands, this ability (and the entire shield weapon for that matter) is made redundant by the Focus trait that provides protection on use of either skill.

Shield #5 Skill: Blast finisher. Since it’s already a light field that would most likely provide additional Retaliation, of which the Guardian is admittedly not on short supply.

Perhaps the shield #4 to act similar to the revenant staff #5, pushing enemies aside as the guardian charges forward in a generated shield-wave.

Instead of doing any damage, the guardian’s shield-wave gives an aegis to allies they pass through (synergy with aegis traits). This also means the guardian can use this as a mobility skill (perhaps breaking immob/chill/cripple too).

Or if it haven’t been suggested, change shield 5 to a reflect field and use the above post’s suggestion for ahield 4

Proposed changes to guardian shield

Shield Skill #5 – Shield of Absorption
This skill will now additionally block, acting similarly to Dragon Hunter’s Shield of Courage Virtue or the block component of mace’s Protector’s Strike, blocking for yourself and allies in the dome. Functionally, the dome would absorb projectiles as it always has, and the blocking component would function for yourself/allies when hit within the circle. The heal component of the skill will be removed.
New name: Shield of Protection
Tooltip: Create a dome around you that pushes foes back, absorbs projectiles, and blocks attacks for you and allies.
Reasoning: A shield’s most basic and important function is to block. To not have it do so, especially on the class themed as a stalwart defender, is a crime. Balance wise this shouldn’t be over powered, since the block is technically redundant. The dome already protected from projectiles, and the knock back served to protect from melee (by knocking them away). That said, its uses were still fairly niche, and the additional block helps round that out. Block AoE at a distance, block mobs with defiance, block coverage against stability, etc. Heal removed for presumed balance needs (don’t want to see that cooldown go up).

Shield Skill #4 – Shield of Judgement
This skill will now additionally heal allies hit by the wave.
Tooltip: Create a shielding wave in front of you that damages foes while healing and granting protection to allies.
Reasoning: The skill is overall redundant, weak, and kind of all over the place. The damage isn’t appreciated and the protection is underwhelming, if not on it’s own then by virtue of the fact that traited focus outshines it. I felt the shield’s kit shouldn’t lose anything through these changes though, so moving skill #5’s heal here seemed appropriate and functionally compatible (you’re aiming for your allies anyways).

Valor major trait – Stalwart Defender
Remove the toughness from this trait. Instead, the guardian and allies affected by shield skills gain a unique buff that increases toughness for a time.
Tooltip: Shield skills grant a stack of Stalwart Defense for 10 seconds, which increases toughness by 150 per stack. Shield abilities have 20% reduced recharge.
Reasoning: This trait felt a bit weak overall, both in competing with the alternative traits, and by comparison with Focus Mastery. It was also a bit redundant, given that shields already provide increased toughness.
Most importantly though, it was boring. In the form of this buff, the effect can be stacked for a burst of defense, and utilized even after a weapon swap. The up time should be able to hit roughly 100% if you time your stacks, keeping it competitive with Strength In Numbers, though as a drawback you will need to actually hit your allies with shield skills for them to gain the effect. Overall it should offer shield users an interesting alternative to the trait.