Guild Wars 2

Torment is a viable answer to limit mobility with a risk/reward and cleanse type counter play. I know originally people felt it was not iconic to the archtype, but just thinking mechanics.

The symbol chill across all weapons would still only benefit hammer/mace, as they have the most repeating symbol uptime in combat.

Snares/immobilizes are another option, but they are becoming increasingly annoying in lockdown (overlapping immobs can be very op)

Gap closers are nice, but in order to make an impact we need to do damage in those small windows, thus maybe upping damage by a few degrees would be good, but no one wants to see more damage, as we are afraid it would end up being OP.

Greater sustain across the board for all builds would allow an outlast style combat, which would help dps, but make bunker even more op (although people are starting to discredit the guard bunker in today’s meta).

Swiftness/movement speed is available, but we sacrifice things in order to achieve it, while other professions “seem” to get in with better synergy. Maybe others can put insight on that and clarify my bias?

Maybe a cripple on burning with a 10 second cooldown and 3 second duration. We have lots of burning, but we can sacrifice that for burst damage, avoidance, or group play. Make us want to keep VoJ up instead of spam it.

If invested, possible to make it a 5 sec to 10 sec duration/cooldown, but sacrifices made. This could easily change to torment and maybe give us a condition build as well as answer some mobility problems, build diversity?

CMF.5461:

Torment is a viable answer to limit mobility with a risk/reward and cleanse type counter play. I know originally people felt it was not iconic to the archtype, but just thinking mechanics.

Ive said it before, i will say it again for the 324907309790759047905743th time, Master trait in radiance, torment on crit, call it “punish the wicked” Gives us something actually condition based IN our condition line (radiant retaliation is crap) and ties into the theme nicely, helps with soft cc as it punishes movement, and opens up new types of actual condi builds instead of the only one which is actually hybrid.

Bash.7291:

CMF.5461:

Torment is a viable answer to limit mobility with a risk/reward and cleanse type counter play. I know originally people felt it was not iconic to the archtype, but just thinking mechanics.

Ive said it before, i will say it again for the 324907309790759047905743th time, Master trait in radiance, torment on crit, call it “punish the wicked” Gives us something actually condition based IN our condition line (radiant retaliation is crap) and ties into the theme nicely, helps with soft cc as it punishes movement, and opens up new types of actual condi builds instead of the only one which is actually hybrid.

I could live with that.

Kind of similar to a change I suggested a while back.
Make Radiant Retaliation base for everyone of every class. Then move shimmering Defense to the grandmaster tier & change it to the following.

Shimmering Defense : Whenever you blind or burn a target you apply X stacks of torment for Y Seconds. 5 second internal CD per target.

That ^ would mean yes you can kite but doing so will still cause you some damage.

Another simpler idea I had was to put a 3 second cripple onto sword #2 & a 4 second cripple onto greatsword #3.

I’m very glad with how this thread turned out, the video almost entirely summed up my reaction to the guardian changes. And instead of a bucket full of negativity, we’ve got constructive discussions on what Anet should and could have done in the balance patch to really give guardians the build options we really wanted (which was the entire point of the guardian update itself, said by Anet themselves)

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Bash.7291:

CMF.5461:

Torment is a viable answer to limit mobility with a risk/reward and cleanse type counter play. I know originally people felt it was not iconic to the archtype, but just thinking mechanics.

Ive said it before, i will say it again for the 324907309790759047905743th time, Master trait in radiance, torment on crit, call it “punish the wicked” Gives us something actually condition based IN our condition line (radiant retaliation is crap) and ties into the theme nicely, helps with soft cc as it punishes movement, and opens up new types of actual condi builds instead of the only one which is actually hybrid.

I could live with that.

Kind of similar to a change I suggested a while back.
Make Radiant Retaliation base for everyone of every class. Then move shimmering Defense to the grandmaster tier & change it to the following.

Shimmering Defense : Whenever you blind or burn a target you apply X stacks of torment for Y Seconds. 5 second internal CD per target.

That ^ would mean yes you can kite but doing so will still cause you some damage.

Another simpler idea I had was to put a 3 second cripple onto sword #2 & a 4 second cripple onto greatsword #3.

+1

These are both very sound suggestions.

Now, if only we can get someone at ArenaNet to read these.

Thanks.

Michaeas Magister.1589:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Bash.7291:

CMF.5461:

Torment is a viable answer to limit mobility with a risk/reward and cleanse type counter play. I know originally people felt it was not iconic to the archtype, but just thinking mechanics.

Ive said it before, i will say it again for the 324907309790759047905743th time, Master trait in radiance, torment on crit, call it “punish the wicked” Gives us something actually condition based IN our condition line (radiant retaliation is crap) and ties into the theme nicely, helps with soft cc as it punishes movement, and opens up new types of actual condi builds instead of the only one which is actually hybrid.

I could live with that.

Kind of similar to a change I suggested a while back.
Make Radiant Retaliation base for everyone of every class. Then move shimmering Defense to the grandmaster tier & change it to the following.

Shimmering Defense : Whenever you blind or burn a target you apply X stacks of torment for Y Seconds. 5 second internal CD per target.

That ^ would mean yes you can kite but doing so will still cause you some damage.

Another simpler idea I had was to put a 3 second cripple onto sword #2 & a 4 second cripple onto greatsword #3.

+1

These are both very sound suggestions.

Now, if only we can get someone at ArenaNet to read these.

Thanks.

I don’t think anyone from Anet will read this thread if they watched the beginning video. I’d love to switch it out with a “less straightforward and crude” video, but it literally sums up my feelings on the changes 100%. I was expecting them to take this thread down right when I posted it but it looks like either they don’t care to post a reply, or they haven’t seen it yet. We’ll have to wait and see what the next few days brings us

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Cry me a river guys…. Seriously. This patch is awesome for users of the mentioned skills. Just because it doesn’t affect you, it makes the patch less? No.

Basically does, these patch is just a small guard update for pvp basically while ignoring other important parts for guards. (Was hoping a maybe better functioning shield or torch or the random times sword 3rd attack failing) imo, no reason why anet couldn’t release this during their many other updates. If they are going to call it a feature pack, they should of included updates that didn’t just focus on a single area mostly and a lil of something that no one cares that much (spirit weapons)

Ghotistyx.6942:

(did you know, SW count as allies?)

no it does not.

SilkySmooth.1574:

Ghotistyx.6942:

(did you know, SW count as allies?)

no it does not.

Yes they do. AH can even be triggered off of them.

Fashion Mage.3712:

SilkySmooth.1574:

Ghotistyx.6942:

(did you know, SW count as allies?)

no it does not.

Yes they do. AH can even be triggered off of them.

Really? Well that’d be cool if they didn’t die in less than 3 seconds

Abe Kleine.3568:

Fashion Mage.3712:

SilkySmooth.1574:

Ghotistyx.6942:

(did you know, SW count as allies?)

no it does not.

Yes they do. AH can even be triggered off of them.

Really? Well that’d be cool if they didn’t die in less than 3 seconds

Lol ya, I actually liked them better during the beta.

They did absolute crap for damage even after traits (unless you specced to make them burn & used carrion amulet)

But they were unkillable which made them great ways to annoy enemies.

At this point though they need to do 2 things

1: Consolidate a couple of the traits for them. (going into 3 different tree’s just sucks & leaves guardians extremely squishy.)
&
2: Increase the Health of spirit weapons (at level 80 they have less then 15 thousand health and no toughness beyond base. This causes them to die extremely fast)

so spririt weapon will still die in 2-3 hit or even right after being casted?

From the short amount of time I’ve experimented with spirit weapons in pvp, I’ve found that they do seem pretty squishy, but I’m fairly certain they last longer than 2-3 hits.
Healing them a bit usually keeps them alive until their durations run out.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. I tried some builds on the NPCs in the mist just to figure out if there might be a useful SW build post patch. The NPCs usually were no big deal. Unless I fought the Guardian. 1 Symbol + WW and the SW (Sword and Hammer) were dead. Even though I tried a Communal Defense build and one with with quite an amount of healing.

SW might find a niche use in solo situations where you can overpower your enemy before he fights back. But if you fail your initial burst, you’re toast.

Fashion Mage.3712:

SilkySmooth.1574:

Ghotistyx.6942:

(did you know, SW count as allies?)

no it does not.

Yes they do. AH can even be triggered off of them.

yes AH works but that was not the question. you cant port to them with MI as being an ally.

SilkySmooth.1574:

Fashion Mage.3712:

SilkySmooth.1574:

Ghotistyx.6942:

(did you know, SW count as allies?)

no it does not.

Yes they do. AH can even be triggered off of them.

yes AH works but that was not the question. you cant port to them with MI as being an ally.

Yes you can. You guys really shouldn’t state incorrect info so boldly without testing it.

Maybe it won’t work with the updated MI, but I honestly see no reason why it wouldn’t.

Aeolus.3615:

so spririt weapon will still die in 2-3 hit or even right after being casted?

Basically yes.

They don’t have enough health or toughness to stay alive beyond 2-3 focused hits or incidental AOE.
And since their AI is stupid anything with cleave will down them before they do any good.

This ^ might be somewhat tolerable if the CD started as soon as they were summoned, but since it starts after they die/expire its not.

Some people might use the bow now on very very select occasions but all I predict people will ever use with any frequency is the shield because there are some situations where you simply have to have projectile absorbs.

Really at this point I would be fine with them doing 1 of 2 things
1: Scrap them completely and remake them more like elementalist conjure weapons
or
2: Make them do no damage until commanded & provide a passive buff to allies (basically what shield does now) but make them invulnerable.

At least then they wouldn’t be reliant on stupid AI or get themselves killed before they are of any use.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Aeolus.3615:

so spririt weapon will still die in 2-3 hit or even right after being casted?

Basically yes.

They don’t have enough health or toughness to stay alive beyond 2-3 focused hits or incidental AOE.
And since their AI is stupid anything with cleave will down them before they do any good.

(…)

Really at this point I would be fine with them doing 1 of 2 things
1: Scrap them completely and remake them more like elementalist conjure weapons
or
2: Make them do no damage until commanded & provide a passive buff to allies (basically what shield does now) but make them invulnerable.

At least then they wouldn’t be reliant on stupid AI or get themselves killed before they are of any use.

IMO spirit weapon could be a strong point on guardian as other classes have theirs, also would be an amazing improvement for bunkers on WvW (talking about SoA in this case), forcing enemy to go close combat or getting more tactical, as example vs condition range, the spirit trait lines do not provide a reliable build if one want to spec in both, at least one of the traits could improve spirit weapons invulnerability .

I have been using SoA like close to 1 month and even as a lower tier server it dies pretty fast and its effectivness is mediocre when works on small scale combat, i think imo a die harder spirit weapon would improve a lot the class/build.