Tarnished Coast
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The State of Guardians
1 2
Scepter 1 needs a faster moving projectile
Sword 3 needs to be able to actually hit a moving target
Nod Nod Agreed.
Also… Ring of Warding still needs a fix. No dodges through this, no falling out of the circle when knocked down. Teleports/stability to get out are fine.
Guard needs a viable condition build.
Agreed with everything you said.
Well, then what is everyone talking about? You’re telling me glass cannons hit tank Guardians for LAWL damage, there is another guy telling us he’s going down in 3-4 hits … it’s not both. Someone is exaggerating (or everyone is). Usually when I see two extreme positions on the same topic, the reality is something in the middle of those two.
It actually can be both when you consider there’s a big difference between active and passive defenses. Guardian’s have bad passive defense. Our armor doesn’t give us that much damage mitigation and we have the lowest health in the game. If you get jumped by a thief (glass cannon variety) and just depend on your passive defenses for protection, you will be destroyed in 3-5 seconds. Which if you are not prepared for, will be too fast for the average player to respond to. On the other hand, Guardian’s have tremendous active defenses and if you are skillfully using your active abilities you become very hard to kill, even for burst classes.
It actually can be both when you consider there’s a big difference between active and passive defenses.
Well, you aren’t too far off what I’m talking about here. Assuming that generally, players are average skilled, I don’t actually suspect that Guardians getting creamed in 3-4 hits are IN a tanky/bunker build. Those builds take into account all defensive elements. If a Guardian does that, they aren’t dying in 3-4 hits to anyone if they know how to play. That just goes to my point that the general experience of Guardians playing tank builds is not on the extreme edges of “completely suck” or “AFK tanking”. I really don’t believe either of those positions given the response it would have gained.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I’m a little surprised by this thread. Guardians are in a fantastic place right now. Scepter 1 isn’t amazing but it works just fine. Sword 2 is the same. Shield cd is definitely high. Zeal and Radiance are both quite bad, but we don’t need them. Hammer 2 is one of the best weapon abilities in the entire game – without question – and I never ever want a dev to even mention the ability. Hammer overall is an absolutely brilliant weapon, or par with Thief shortbow and Warrior Greatsword.
Scepter 1 needs a faster moving projectile
Sword 3 needs to be able to actually hit a moving target
Nod Nod Agreed.
Also… Ring of Warding still needs a fix. No dodges through this, no falling out of the circle when knocked down. Teleports/stability to get out are fine.
Guard needs a viable condition build.
Thats not a bad idea for Scepter 1, although I was thinking something more like Book of Wrath 1. You target someone and auto cast a small aoe explosion on them. Scepter 2 being a symbol would actually make it really nice instead of mediocre. And I believe the main problem with Sword 3 is that it moves too slow as well as locks onto the place where the target was and fires there. I also agree with condition build. I’m just not sure what exactly they would be able to give us. Maybe confusion would work with the lore, but I’m not seeing bleeding or poison.
I’m not saying Guards are terrible, because there are not. Its just there are some key, glaringly brutal, issues with small parts of the class. A lot of these issues extend from the original post as well as Zeal/Radiance needing some love.
Then again, I am looking at these problems from a strictly wvw point of view. =P
Haven’t played in a while, so question:
Is it pretty much still 10/30/30/0/0, 0/15/30/20/5, and 0/0/30/20/20 being the most common and superior builds?
Alarox – Human Guardian
Rampage Wilson – Charr Engineer
Sea of Sorrows
Rampage Wilson – Charr Engineer
Sea of Sorrows
Well most go 0,0,30,30,10 or 0,0,30,20,20 these days. Invest max 10 to zeal for 10% more dmg for burning targets if u wanna deal a bit more damage.
Aren’t we supposed to get a 10% damage reduction in the next path? And which class is this that can burst a Guardian in 3-4 hits? I haven’t come across anything like this in WvW… well there was this one guy that hit like a truck.. Thief then I take it. But they are super glassy if they spec that way.
You are close but, all classes can make alot damage to guardian due low health pool as example w/o being glass cannons and mantain some good defense
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
Aren’t we supposed to get a 10% damage reduction in the next path? And which class is this that can burst a Guardian in 3-4 hits? I haven’t come across anything like this in WvW… well there was this one guy that hit like a truck.. Thief then I take it. But they are super glassy if they spec that way.
You are close but, all classes can make alot damage to guardian due low health pool as example w/o being glass cannons and mantain some good defense
Are you forgetting that we are the best condition removal AND defense class? Low health means more effective healing in which we also prevail. Also only a beginner gets bursted by a thief or a warrior. We have so many blocks that you can literally block thieves whole burst combo and with it, gain full stack of might. After this you can show him how bursting is done. We also have access to stability with fairly low cool-down. If you get damaged a lot by a class that is not GC, you are doing it wrong. Simple as that. I shall quote hundres of people before me by saying “It’s a learn to play issue”.
Aren’t we supposed to get a 10% damage reduction in the next path? And which class is this that can burst a Guardian in 3-4 hits? I haven’t come across anything like this in WvW… well there was this one guy that hit like a truck.. Thief then I take it. But they are super glassy if they spec that way.
You are close but, all classes can make alot damage to guardian due low health pool as example w/o being glass cannons and mantain some good defense
Health pool isn’t the only factor that affects how much a beating a Guardian can take. Effective health is a combination of armor, health regain, HP, and blocks. Every guardian gets that. In addition if spec’ed for it, you can add in immunity and damage reduction. I’m limited in my experience with other classes but we probably have some of the highest effective HP a class can have because of all of those things. A skilled Guardian player doesn’t get bursted unless it’s a unfortunately coincidence.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
A skilled Guardian player doesn’t get bursted unless it’s a unfortunately coincidence.
The rest of your post contradicts this final statement. Let me qualify that with the statement that guardians’ supposedly high “effective hit points” come from:
- active defence.
- good play on the part of the guardian.
The guardian has to generate the “effective hit points”. They cannot have high hit points if they get bursted by surprise or shafted by cooldowns.
Aren’t we supposed to get a 10% damage reduction in the next path? And which class is this that can burst a Guardian in 3-4 hits? I haven’t come across anything like this in WvW… well there was this one guy that hit like a truck.. Thief then I take it. But they are super glassy if they spec that way.
You are close but, all classes can make alot damage to guardian due low health pool as example w/o being glass cannons and mantain some good defense
Health pool isn’t the only factor that affects how much a beating a Guardian can take. Effective health is a combination of armor, health regain, HP, and blocks. Every guardian gets that. In addition if spec’ed for it, you can add in immunity and damage reduction. I’m limited in my experience with other classes but we probably have some of the highest effective HP a class can have because of all of those things. A skilled Guardian player doesn’t get bursted unless it’s a unfortunately coincidence.
It deppends if is PvP, or WvW all gameplays are quite different from each other, for what i have experienced, a boon rip necro or a good thief can shatter any guardian due the high mobility and better ways to get out of combat or restart combat , the way i found guardian to be better effective was with ~2.8k armor and arround 20k health and greatsword(game forces to DPS role all other weapons are pve) one thing that all we learned is that VIT > Amor .
A good thief or necro if finds a guardian w/o greatsword, the guardian wont even touch it :]
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
I’d like to see Smite (scepter 2) be made into a symbol, would make it more viable running with it for certain trait builds.
True. Scepter is horrible, except for his range.
Slow AA, No Symbols, no Combo Fields/Finishers.
Also the Shield5 and Focus5 should be reversed since it would make SO MUCH SENSE, I don’t know what ANet was thinking when they put those abilities like that.
A Shield doing an Aura and a Focus Blocking _ how does a little piece of iron/whatever, blocks better than a huge shield? xD
It’s clear my point isn’t understood:
If glass cannons are destroying Bunker Guardians, then there is no way their damage is LAWL on a Guardian. If glass cannons are doing LAWL damage on a Guardian, they aren’t destroying Guardians. I’m not disputing either is right or wrong but it can’t be both. Someone is just not representing Guardians properly with their claims.
The intent of the thread is to get a feeling for the overall performance of Guardians for game content. If there are two extreme and contradicting positions, seems to me that an objective reader would have to dismiss both, resulting in the conclusion that Guardians are in a nice, average position.
No I understood your point and I think I addressed that already. Perhaps you missed it, but whatever. What’s really relevant to this topic in regards to Boon Hate is that, yes, to a degree, Guardians are in a good state currently (they still could use some tweaking). However, this Boon Hate system is going to throw the balance way off again and its not in favor of Guardians….. yet again.
“Be like water” – Bruce Lee
Well of course, the only point of patches is to nerf theif into uselessness and fix minor issues with other classes.
I don’t think anything is wrong with sword. But scepter is trash I hate it. I understand they don’t want us to be range beast. But we shouldn’t have horrible weapons for range.
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Guardian Paladin 2.5 Build,So We Are 80 Series “Weekly”
Guardian Berserker 3.0 Build
Guardian Paladin 2.5 Build,So We Are 80 Series “Weekly”
Guardian Berserker 3.0 Build
A skilled Guardian player doesn’t get bursted unless it’s a unfortunately coincidence.
The rest of your post contradicts this final statement. Let me qualify that with the statement that guardians’ supposedly high “effective hit points” come from:
- active defence.
- good play on the part of the guardian.
The guardian has to generate the “effective hit points”. They cannot have high hit points if they get bursted by surprise or shafted by cooldowns.
Being shafted by cooldowns is precisely what I meant by unfortunate coincidence. Other than that scenario, I feel that if a player is even averagely skilled with Guardian, they should never be losing in a manner that makes them feel like they were ‘bursted’ in 3-4 hits by another player. Therefore, I don’t believe that being bursted in 3-4 hits is an accurate description for the state of Guardians.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
A skilled Guardian player doesn’t get bursted unless it’s a unfortunately coincidence.
The rest of your post contradicts this final statement. Let me qualify that with the statement that guardians’ supposedly high “effective hit points” come from:
- active defence.
- good play on the part of the guardian.
The guardian has to generate the “effective hit points”. They cannot have high hit points if they get bursted by surprise or shafted by cooldowns.
Being shafted by cooldowns is precisely what I meant by unfortunate coincidence. Other than that scenario, I feel that if a player is even averagely skilled with Guardian, they should never be losing in a manner that makes them feel like they were ‘bursted’ in 3-4 hits by another player. Therefore, I don’t believe that being bursted in 3-4 hits is an accurate description for the state of Guardians.
I don’t think the thieves that do that care if you believe it or not.
“Be like water” – Bruce Lee
Scepter 1 skill should be faster, the weapon has great potential if it wasn’t so easily dodged.
I honestly have no problems with the Guardian in tPvP, aside from a few bugs of course. I can also give a standpoint of the scepter from a purely spvp perspective:
- Scepter 3 is one of the best skills a Guardian has, the ability to root an enemy for one of your allies to burst down is so incredibly strong. Hundred Blades with the enemy snared (at the same time), mesmer shatter with the enemy unable to dodge. It is so amazingly strong, although a buff to this skill will promote a lot more teamwork play, unfortunately people would just spam it too much and it would encourage bad players to use it even worse.
- Scepter 2 is a very decent skill does put that extra bit of damage on and it’s the nutorious aegis remover! Nothing removes more aegis than smite! Making it a symbol would make symbol builds viable on a bunker/support build, which would be insanely OP unfortunately! Although if these builds were toned down slightly (in the amount healed) then it would be a very fun build to play.
- Scepter 1, so hated by the community, due to being able to dodge by vibrating on the spot. The shortbow on ranger is also vulnerable to this type of dodging (don’t tell anybody it’s a seekrit!). It’s currently way too powerful to make all the projectiles hit and I like it the way it is, in PvE it doesn’t matter the enemies stand still. I don’t want the scepter to be a DPS weapon because it’s going to make support Bunkers overpowered and they’re going to take away defensive skills instead (which will make Guards UP).
So to sum up; if you really want the scepter buffed it will have to only be a PvE change because it’s already extremely strong in PvP and if they do chose to buff it in both we’re going to get nerfs to both PvP and PvE in other defensive areas.
I honestly have no problems with the Guardian in tPvP, aside from a few bugs of course. I can also give a standpoint of the scepter from a purely spvp perspective:
- Scepter 3 is one of the best skills a Guardian has, the ability to root an enemy for one of your allies to burst down is so incredibly strong. Hundred Blades with the enemy snared (at the same time), mesmer shatter with the enemy unable to dodge. It is so amazingly strong, although a buff to this skill will promote a lot more teamwork play, unfortunately people would just spam it too much and it would encourage bad players to use it even worse.
- Scepter 2 is a very decent skill does put that extra bit of damage on and it’s the nutorious aegis remover! Nothing removes more aegis than smite! Making it a symbol would make symbol builds viable on a bunker/support build, which would be insanely OP unfortunately! Although if these builds were toned down slightly (in the amount healed) then it would be a very fun build to play.
- Scepter 1, so hated by the community, due to being able to dodge by vibrating on the spot. The shortbow on ranger is also vulnerable to this type of dodging (don’t tell anybody it’s a seekrit!). It’s currently way too powerful to make all the projectiles hit and I like it the way it is, in PvE it doesn’t matter the enemies stand still. I don’t want the scepter to be a DPS weapon because it’s going to make support Bunkers overpowered and they’re going to take away defensive skills instead (which will make Guards UP).
So to sum up; if you really want the scepter buffed it will have to only be a PvE change because it’s already extremely strong in PvP and if they do chose to buff it in both we’re going to get nerfs to both PvP and PvE in other defensive areas.
I mostly agree with this, and I thoroughly enjoy using the Scepter in PvP as is, though I admit that I’d like to see the autoattack reworked. I do agree that it would be overpowered if they just increased the projectile speed, since the weapon fires quickly and the orbs do a lot of damage, and part of what keeps the scepter balanced now is its low accuracy. However, I feel like this is just poor design, even if the weapon is balanced. Ideally, I’d like to see the Scepter receive a projectile speed boost that will allow it to hit targets at 1200 range with reasonable consistency. In exchange, however, I would like to see the rate of fire reduced, and if I’m really pushing, I’d like to see the magic tennis balls changed into blue fireballs. This, if tuned appropriately, could make the Scepter autoattack more usable at long range while keeping the DPS reasonable.
As for Smite, I agree that it shouldn’t be a symbol, since it would probably be overpowered with all of the potential trait synergies that could open up. I wouldn’t mind them adding a Light or Fire field onto Smite, though, in exchange for them increasing its cooldown to 8-10 seconds. This would improve the Scepter’s team play and make the weapon a bit less linear (since right now, the bulk of what it offers is damage and its fantastic #3), and I don’t think it would make it especially overpowered.
You know, I’d be happy if they increased the speed and decreased the damage Scepter1 does. At least then it would actually land a hit at range!
“Be like water” – Bruce Lee
Compared to other classes, Guardians are doing fantastic. If you think we have it bad, try playing an Engineer, Necro, or Ranger.
I don’t think the thieves that do that care if you believe it or not.
Encounter with thieves are not indicative of the general state of guardians either. Presenting extreme cases is not convincing.
I realize the conversation turned away rom this a while back, but I have to point out: the damage reduction numbers people are holding up as evidence of dysfunction are wrong.
Assuming a level 80 in exotics:
Everybody gets 916 Toughness
If you spec for it, you can have +300 Toughness from traits.
Toughness on gear:
- As a major stat on all your gear: 1003 toughness.
- As a minor stat on all your gear: 698 toughness.
Armor: - Heavy armor will contribute 1211 defense.
- Medium armor will contribute 1064 defense.
- Light armor will contribute 920 defense.
Traits, food, runes, etc. can add more. We’ll limit the consideration to these stats (numbers taken from the wiki) since looking at the absolute maximum ignores the realities of needing to divert effort to supporting a build—a 6-piece rune bonus may not be plausible to maintain the correct boon duration.
Tankiest:
- Heavy: 3430 = 1211+1003+300+916
- Medium: 3283 = 1064+1003+300+916 (95.714% of heavy)
- Light: 3139 = 920+1003+300+916 (91.516% of heavy)
So the tankiest light armor wearer still takes 9.2% more damage than the tankiest heavy armor wearer. This isn’t entirely correct (it ignores defense on a shield, for example) but is a good approximation.
Squishiest:
- Heavy: 2127 = 1211+916
- Medium: 1980 = 1064+916 (93.089% of heavy)
- Light: 1836 = 920+916 (86.319% of heavy)
At this end of the spectrum, a light amror wearer takes 15.8% more damage than the correspondingly-speced heavy armor wearer.
The difference is not tremendous, but anywhere in the range of 9.2% to 15% is still significant.
But these comparisons are not what people always allude to when they talk about hte advantages of heavy armor.
- The natural health boost a warrior has certainly augments their ability to take hits—the numbers may not be very different but the effect on their health bar is. Just because people are misinformed doesn’t mean their observations are incorrect; the heavy armor warrior appears to take considerably less damage.
- Any guardian that is trying to take hits has protection up. While the warrior has a nice boost to health, the guardian has a boost to normalized health—the perception is still that heavy armor makes you take a lot less damage.
- Guardians block. A lot. The relevance cannot be discounted.
- Anybody that is speccing for defense can do a good job at it, the math says as much. The reality is that people that want to play defense-oriented roles tend pick heavy armor wearers and spec into defense, whereas people that want to play damage dealer take lighter armor and don’t spec; squishy light vs. tanky heavy is almost a 1:2 ratio—and that is before counting aegis and protection.
A 9-15% difference in damage taken is significant, and the perceived difference is far more. In either case, the difference is far more than the 5% that some poeple would like to believe; 10% extra damage taken at 80 means that every time you are reduced to triple-digit health as a heavy wearer, you would be downed as a light-wearer.
-Fildydarie
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
I honestly have no problems with the Guardian in tPvP, aside from a few bugs of course. I can also give a standpoint of the scepter from a purely spvp perspective:
- Scepter 3 is one of the best skills a Guardian has, the ability to root an enemy for one of your allies to burst down is so incredibly strong. Hundred Blades with the enemy snared (at the same time), mesmer shatter with the enemy unable to dodge. It is so amazingly strong, although a buff to this skill will promote a lot more teamwork play, unfortunately people would just spam it too much and it would encourage bad players to use it even worse.
- Scepter 2 is a very decent skill does put that extra bit of damage on and it’s the nutorious aegis remover! Nothing removes more aegis than smite! Making it a symbol would make symbol builds viable on a bunker/support build, which would be insanely OP unfortunately! Although if these builds were toned down slightly (in the amount healed) then it would be a very fun build to play.
- Scepter 1, so hated by the community, due to being able to dodge by vibrating on the spot. The shortbow on ranger is also vulnerable to this type of dodging (don’t tell anybody it’s a seekrit!). It’s currently way too powerful to make all the projectiles hit and I like it the way it is, in PvE it doesn’t matter the enemies stand still. I don’t want the scepter to be a DPS weapon because it’s going to make support Bunkers overpowered and they’re going to take away defensive skills instead (which will make Guards UP).
So to sum up; if you really want the scepter buffed it will have to only be a PvE change because it’s already extremely strong in PvP and if they do chose to buff it in both we’re going to get nerfs to both PvP and PvE in other defensive areas.
SB on ranger has a much higher chance to hit due to its rate of fire and travel speed. If scepter 1 was like that I’d be fine with it (lets not forget 20% projectile finisher). However SB 1 on ranger’s effective range is about 900 instead of 1200 if the target is moving, which is kinda dumb imo.
Compared to other classes, Guardians are doing fantastic. If you think we have it bad, try playing an Engineer, Necro, or Ranger.
Watch any of his power necro fights and then tell me how it sucks to play Necro:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RaggokOozo
Watch any of his ranger/engie fights and tell me how it sucks to play Ranger/engie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcZeKgtU_w0
Engie is a REALLY strong class, its unfortunate that 90% of them out there aren’t playing it that well. The tool kit is really strong for power or confusion builds, the juggernaut flamethrower spec has become really strong as well. There are a few rifle builds out there that are really strong as well that have a 8 or 10 second CD 2 second root. And don’t forget about support engie, especially now that its been buffed all to hell.
(edited by Dynnen.6405)
I realize the conversation turned away rom this a while back, but I have to point out: the damage reduction numbers people are holding up as evidence of dysfunction are wrong.
Assuming a level 80 in exotics:
Everybody gets 916 Toughness
If you spec for it, you can have +300 Toughness from traits.
Toughness on gear:
- As a major stat on all your gear: 1003 toughness.
- As a minor stat on all your gear: 698 toughness.
Armor:- Heavy armor will contribute 1211 defense.
- Medium armor will contribute 1064 defense.
- Light armor will contribute 920 defense.
Traits, food, runes, etc. can add more. We’ll limit the consideration to these stats (numbers taken from the wiki) since looking at the absolute maximum ignores the realities of needing to divert effort to supporting a build—a 6-piece rune bonus may not be plausible to maintain the correct boon duration.
Tankiest:
- Heavy: 3430 = 1211+1003+300+916
- Medium: 3283 = 1064+1003+300+916 (95.714% of heavy)
- Light: 3139 = 920+1003+300+916 (91.516% of heavy)
So the tankiest light armor wearer still takes 9.2% more damage than the tankiest heavy armor wearer. This isn’t entirely correct (it ignores defense on a shield, for example) but is a good approximation.
Squishiest:
- Heavy: 2127 = 1211+916
- Medium: 1980 = 1064+916 (93.089% of heavy)
- Light: 1836 = 920+916 (86.319% of heavy)
At this end of the spectrum, a light amror wearer takes 15.8% more damage than the correspondingly-speced heavy armor wearer.
The difference is not tremendous, but anywhere in the range of 9.2% to 15% is still significant.
But these comparisons are not what people always allude to when they talk about hte advantages of heavy armor.
- The natural health boost a warrior has certainly augments their ability to take hits—the numbers may not be very different but the effect on their health bar is. Just because people are misinformed doesn’t mean their observations are incorrect; the heavy armor warrior appears to take considerably less damage.
- Any guardian that is trying to take hits has protection up. While the warrior has a nice boost to health, the guardian has a boost to normalized health—the perception is still that heavy armor makes you take a lot less damage.
- Guardians block. A lot. The relevance cannot be discounted.
- Anybody that is speccing for defense can do a good job at it, the math says as much. The reality is that people that want to play defense-oriented roles tend pick heavy armor wearers and spec into defense, whereas people that want to play damage dealer take lighter armor and don’t spec; squishy light vs. tanky heavy is almost a 1:2 ratio—and that is before counting aegis and protection.
A 9-15% difference in damage taken is significant, and the perceived difference is far more. In either case, the difference is far more than the 5% that some poeple would like to believe; 10% extra damage taken at 80 means that every time you are reduced to triple-digit health as a heavy wearer, you would be downed as a light-wearer.
And what you neglect to mention is that most classes that have light armor have ~numberous~ ways to negate damage altogether or get out of the way from damage, must more significantly than a Heavy Armor wearing class.
This is the single biggest point neglected to be mentioned by other classes.
So no, a 5-7% reduction in damage for “heavy” armor IS insignificant when you’ve been targeted by everyone.
(edited by Amins.3710)
I don’t think the thieves that do that care if you believe it or not.
Encounter with thieves are not indicative of the general state of guardians either. Presenting extreme cases is not convincing.
Sure it is, Thieves shouldn’t be able to do that to Guardians, especially bunker builds. However, you’re the one that ignorantly continues to deny that instances of 3-4 hit downings by that profession doesn’t exist. I just gave you evidence of such thing, and there’s a lot more videos by other players out there as well. And those are not “extreme” cases as you put it. Why do you think Thief is such a popular class when it comes to PvP?
@Amins, I completely agree with you there. Honestly, the way it is now, armor class is just asethetics. There is no difference in the “feel” of a light armor class vs a heavy armor class.
“Be like water” – Bruce Lee
(edited by Lonewolf Kai.3682)
I don’t think the thieves that do that care if you believe it or not.
Encounter with thieves are not indicative of the general state of guardians either. Presenting extreme cases is not convincing.
Sure it is, Thieves shouldn’t be able to do that to Guardians, especially bunker builds.
The general state of a profession is not accurately reflected by it’s performance against one of many professions in the game. If that was the case, then based on your thief evidence the conclusion is what … Guardians are terrible? That’s clearly not correct.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I don’t think the thieves that do that care if you believe it or not.
Encounter with thieves are not indicative of the general state of guardians either. Presenting extreme cases is not convincing.
Sure it is, Thieves shouldn’t be able to do that to Guardians, especially bunker builds.
… Guardians are terrible? That’s clearly not correct.
No, that’s not what I said or is what the point of the subtopic. You’re putting words into my mouth, continually going around in circles of the actual point of the subtopic instead of sticking to it, and I’m done with it. If you can’t focus on the arguments YOU originally brought, then there’s no point to this banter.
As to the above quote, I actually agree to that. Again, that’s not what I said or is the point.
@wish, as argued in the previous posts, a thief can do such a thing. There’s plenty of evidence around. Just because it doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean its nonexistent, but I guess as the saying goes, “Ignorance is bliss,” right?
“Be like water” – Bruce Lee
I think the point that I and wish are illustrating is that a thief doing that is not relevant to the overall state of Guardians. Even though there are some instances of annihilated or on the other hand, immunity, these are exceptions. They do not represent the overall performance of Guardians. Therefore, they can’t be used to demonstrate a need for profession improvements (or nerfs).
There is nothing cyclic about this discussion. You can’t have an objective discussion about the state of anything if you wish to dwell on exceptional, low frequency encounters.
I think the point that I and wish are illustrating is that a thief doing that is not relevant to the overall state of Guardians. Even though there are some instances of annihilated or on the other hand, immunity, these are exceptions. They do not represent the overall performance of Guardians. Therefore, they can’t be used to demonstrate a need for profession improvements (or nerfs).
There is nothing cyclic about this discussion. You can’t have an objective discussion about the state of anything if you wish to dwell on exceptional, low frequency encounters.
Well as I said, that’s not my original point, which was that the current state of Guardians might be decent now, but with the proposed Boon Hate system, that will be thrown off balance again. Thief bursting was just used as an example, which is where you decided to point out and deny, continually, instead of sticking to the original point of the example. And again, that’s the Boon Hate system will throw off the current state of Guardians and what the Guardian is supposed to be. The fact that thief bursting happens (low frequency [you’re opinion] or not) is where this discussion seems to be stuck at and is going round and round.
You’re focusing on a part of what was said, and not the actual point. I’m at fault here for being caught up in it too. I do however think its funny when a tiny portion of the gaming populous (forumites) denies when such events take place. Its like people who don’t have algeries claim they don’t exist just because they are sufferless to it when the person right next to them is sneezing their head off during the pollination season.
From what I understand Boon Hate isn’t going to be strictly a thief skill/trait. Although the argument that I was making and Red, which is where the cycle is going back to …. again, is that thieves, who are definately slated to get this, will still be able to spike damage as a means to destroy bunker builds. DON’T CONCENTRATE ON THAT! Okay? Gooood, let’s slowly walk away from that cycle now.
My original point, to put it simply, Boon Hate = Bad News for the state of Guardians. And with that I digress that we should take this to the Boon Hate thread.
“Be like water” – Bruce Lee
(edited by Lonewolf Kai.3682)
Does nobody else get hit for about 15k damage by mesmers? I usually find I’m okay for most of the fight then suddenly get bursted for nearly all of my HPs.
In most fights I’m panicking because I’ve got about 2k HPs all of the time.
You’re probalby being hit by their shatters. If you see the clones coming for you, you know that burst is coming.
“Be like water” – Bruce Lee
Does nobody else get hit for about 15k damage by mesmers? I usually find I’m okay for most of the fight then suddenly get bursted for nearly all of my HPs.
In most fights I’m panicking because I’ve got about 2k HPs all of the time.
This is due to the Mesmer running a shatter build with a Zerka amulet. The two simple signs that a Mesmer is shattering you are:
- The Mesmer’s close are running towards you all at the same time (the sword clones will stop inbetween auto-attacks so you can’t confuse it with a shatter) they will also stop midcast to sprint at you in this way.
- You hear the universal Mesmer teleport sound, if you don’t know what it sounds like get on a Mesmer and blink anywhere, that sound is what all Mesmer teleports share in common.
Good Mesmers will teleport onto you and use their Mirror Images skill along with their Shatter and Sword 2 (Blurred Frenzy), this means you get no chance to dodge their Sword 3 (Illusionary Leap) so dodging when you hear this sound is vital.
Another important thing to note is that if you do dodge when you hear the sound, you will actually dodge before the immobilize from Sword 3 hits you and thus be out of range of the Mesmer’s burst.
If you do get stuck in the immobilize of Illusionary leap, use your Shelter or Renewed Focus to stop 100% of the burst, failure to do so will almost certainly kill you.
This means save your dodges correctly, if you waste them you literally have killed yourself.
Thanks for the tips, I will work on this. Dodge when you hear the portal sound fx.
Thanks for the tips, I will work on this. Dodge when you hear the portal sound fx.
Blink sound* <3
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