Guild Wars 2

On my so-called bunker guardian with 3200 armor.
Have to say 21k instant damage is so-well-balanced.

Armor – IE: BASE Heavy Armor – Needs a boost tbh.

Now, what that pic isn’t telling is if you had 25 Stacks of Vulnerability on you and they had 25 Stacks of Bloodlust + 25 Stacks of Might, along w/ thier 150% Crit Dmg Utility…. if that’s the case… well then, you deserve to die because that just doesnt’ happen as often as not.

Amins.3710:

Armor – IE: BASE Heavy Armor – Needs a boost tbh.

Now, what that pic isn’t telling is if you had 25 Stacks of Vulnerability on you and they had 25 Stacks of Bloodlust + 25 Stacks of Might, along w/ thier 150% Crit Dmg Utility…. if that’s the case… well then, you deserve to die because that just doesnt’ happen as often as not.

lol…. You don’t need all of that to get that kind of damage.

Armor is practically useless because the diminishing returns on toughness are to the extreme, which is only compounded by the fact there are zero defensive counters to the following;

- 25 stacks of Might > Good groups can attain this pretty easy.
- 25 stacks of Bloodlust
- 25 stacks of Vulnerability > Not everyone can clear this, and cooldowns on condition removal abilities on some classes are very high.
- No cap on bonus to crit damage, which is further compounded by Ascended Gear.

To give an example of how easy it is to get some of this, one Ranger, and one Warrior can get you to 25 stacks of Vulnerability in 2 seconds.

Protection/dodge roll?

Saintly.8062:

Protection/dodge roll?

I’ve hit people who have had Protection up for 9k, your point? Dodge rolls are so limited, while great, they are no where near the counterbalance to the damage I can get, in a single blow.

And if you can’t remove a root, or stun because your class happens to have a long cooldown timers on your stun breaks (or your stun break doesn’t always work because it is buggy), you are not going to be able to dodge.

It would be different if you got a full two seconds worth of evades off a dodge roll.

The last bunker Guardian I killed who told me he had 3200 Armor, with his Protection up, looked like this.

2636 Steal
4,361 Cloak and Dagger
6,662 Backstab
4,025 Heartseeker
4,361 Cloak and Dagger
6,662 Backstab
Dead

I don’t think he knew where I was the entire fight because I was working on showing someone that you can stay perma stealth attacking a wall, so I come at him in stealth. He dodged twice, healed maybe twice, and he died.

It’s one of the reasons I havn’t played my Guardian for a long time.

ya, that’s what I want to do after a normal human kind reflection. But that 21k maybe take 0.5 sec?

Saintly.8062:

Protection/dodge roll?

f3 Aegis / focus 4 and 5 skill could avoid all the burst with 1 single button, but you were off guard or this happened in an zerg vs zerg where you could get resurected by an ally

You’re right!

Because if any of your defenses are down, for any reason (like maybe you were PvPing on a PvP server, oh the horror!) then you obviously deserved to be 3-shotted because those three shots take skilllllllllll.

Not to mention what’s the counter supposed to be after you use your 3 seconds of defensive skills?

Exarthious.5792:

Armor is practically useless because the diminishing returns on toughness are to the extreme

This is just not true. If you have 3k armor and add 200, you gain 6.25% damage reduction. If you have 3.2k armor and gain 200 armor, you get 5.8% damage reduction. That’s only .45% less. Yes, it does diminish. But it’s not “practically useless” because the diminishing returns are “extreme.”

What is true is that you do have to sacrifice damage stats (specifically, crit damage, and to a lesser extent power and precision) if you want the highest possible armor.

Furthermore, the fact that you got beasted by a thief shouldn’t be a surprise. That’s what thieves are good at. This isn’t anything new. If the conditions were different and it was a zerg v zerg situation or even party v party, that’s not something that would happen easily. You have to really work to get that kind of a kill anywhere but solo.

foofad.5162:

Exarthious.5792:

Armor is practically useless because the diminishing returns on toughness are to the extreme

This is just not true. If you have 3k armor and add 200, you gain 6.25% damage reduction. If you have 3.2k armor and gain 200 armor, you get 5.8% damage reduction. That’s only .45% less. Yes, it does diminish. But it’s not “practically useless” because the diminishing returns are “extreme.”

What is true is that you do have to sacrifice damage stats (specifically, crit damage, and to a lesser extent power and precision) if you want the highest possible armor.

Furthermore, the fact that you got beasted by a thief shouldn’t be a surprise. That’s what thieves are good at. This isn’t anything new. If the conditions were different and it was a zerg v zerg situation or even party v party, that’s not something that would happen easily. You have to really work to get that kind of a kill anywhere but solo.

No.Actually,this kind of thief have to sacrifice many survival stats in order to burst u like this.The only reason OP died with his guardian was because of bad play and bad perception.I could swear that the last time I got hit by a 9k backstab,the thief died with a Zealot’s Embrace,3 hits and a MB in the face.
He cries that he got bursted because of armor,but seriously just look at his selected skills.WoR=abosolutely useless outside of a zerg and then he picks 2 removal conditions plus Signet of Resolve that removes conditions and im also pretty sure that he has at least 20-30 points in Valor meaning that he has purity(remove condition every 10 sec) on top.This skills would work on a zerg fight,but its probably not a zerg case instead it was like “hey im wandering in the WvW going to a camp,why dont I change my skills,OH kitten A THIEF 3 SHOT ME DOWN AND I COULDNT EVEN REACT BECAUSE I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO REACT WITH”.Condition removal overkill instead of skills that grant Protection,Retaliation and Block.Do not try to justify people that cry on the forums because they are just bad.

You are in WvWvW.

That thief has maxed out his crit damage. (to 109%)

Crit damage past a certain point negates any benefit toughness gave you.

WvWvW isn’t balanced, nor is it meant to be.

Try spvp if you want balance in pvp, thief crit damage is capped at 60% from traits and gear and isn’t enough to negate the defense toughness gives.

If you lose to a thief on a guard you are either:
1. bad
2. out some of your cooldowns
3. facing a condition/kite thief (not too much of a prob if you pack wall of reflection)

Burst damage thieves are very easy to beat as a guard. It goes something like this:

Thief appears trying to do crazy burst, first hit is blocked by aegis. Pop shelter thief wastes burst while you block and heal any damage you took. If disabled, pop virtue of courage and resolve if necessary to survive burst and then heal up. At this point thief has used its burst and you should well over 50%. All you have to do now is dps until thief runs away or dies.

Hehe got to agree with the last postes, since I got both professions:b
As thief you can do this.. But for what? One cheap kill.. You are useless in any other aspect, and if caught of guard nearly any profession will kill you in a blink of an eye.

As for guardians, a well played guardian can be a hell to be up against.. Takes forever to down.
Then we also most remember that 1v1 is a minamal part of the game, or at least it should be. So in a group he this thief might not benefit too much with interuption and the like.

It is not the armor. Those skills are just a way to overpowered. It’s the inability of Anet to balance the game.

If i see thinks like that i think they are complete noobs. I mean three hits to take out a heavy… It’s just annoying and i honestly do NOT want to insult them. Its just pure frustration.

It’s not overpowered. If you spec like that you’re a one trick pony. I have an 80 thief and an 80 guardian, I should know.

Agrees with the OP.
IMHO that amount of damage shoud not be possible on that much armor or a heavy class with protection up. Power tougness vit + protection should not let u die in 3-10 seconds. Fights should be longer if you spec that way. I’v had 3500 armor + protection up and still died in 3-5 seconds if i was on CD’s.

Maybe crit dmg and food and 25stacks shud be nerfed? or increase tougness values?

Looks like he just got lucky on 3 crits in a row. Beyond that, when I play guardian thieves don’t even concern me.

But speaking of armor, why are d/d eles the BEST bunker builds? That doesn’t make sense.

Most of you folks are just being silly, there is absolutely no reason a Guardian focused on defensive stats should ever take a 9k hit. I don’t care what the player sacrificed for that damage. Certainly not in conjunction with the thief class who already slides on survivability due to stealth. There seems to be an issue with defensive stats scaling against crit, perhaps it’s intended but it certainly isn’t mitigating the damage that prioritizing those stats should. We’ll see what Anet does to address this in the next balance passes.

I run thief in WvW (yes, you can start to hate me) and a Guardian is usually something I tend to avoid attacking. I can’t believe these screen shots were taken against something that should be considered a proper Bunker-build, because while we can do a good amount of damage, it won’t be at 21K. I often run with another thief and a good bunker is not even killable with the burst of two thieves, let alone one. Since then I made a Guardian and it’s a breeze dealing with thieves on a standard PVT blind bunker build. I don’t know how you got these numbers, but that’s just surreal.. Guardian is the most OP class there is (And I play all, except Necro).

I’ve never been hit for 9k on my Guardian either, I have been gibbed pretty quickly with successive 4k hits though. Why do you think the Guardian is the most OP class there is by the way?

Hostility.4961:

Agrees with the OP.
IMHO that amount of damage shoud not be possible on that much armor or a heavy class with protection up. Power tougness vit + protection should not let u die in 3-10 seconds. Fights should be longer if you spec that way. I’v had 3500 armor + protection up and still died in 3-5 seconds if i was on CD’s.

Maybe crit dmg and food and 25stacks shud be nerfed? or increase tougness values?

Then A-net should nerf guardian’s empower since that thief had empower from 2 guardians when he did that damage

Why do you belive guardian can have 3 blind on weapon skills and few aegis up as utility’s. To avoid big shots. An good timed blind will reward you vs an glass cannon thief, since the glass cannon will use maximum 2 stealth utility’s (30 sec and 60 cooldown) your sword ‘s blind got 10 sec cooldown focus blind 24 , and gs blind arround 12 or 15. You also have an pasive aegis every 40 seconds (not trained) 1 at 50% hp , and aegis heal on removal and give retailation on removal.
And i didn’t mentioned protection in all this story,

You people have no idea what you’re talking about. This combo is a 3-shot from stealth from 900 away. Meaning, to be able to counter this, you need to know there is a Thief far away from you who is stealthed (meaning you’re asking everyone to be psychic), or get lucky.

I don’t know about you, but I’m not a paranoid player who constantly spams dodges and Protection when there’s 0 reason to believe there’s a Thief, and that’s what you’re telling everyone to do. “L2p, just spam dodge and all your Protection cooldowns for no reason in any PvP situation you ever find yourself, because there might possibly be a chance a Thief is near you.”

foofad.5162:

It’s not overpowered. If you spec like that you’re a one trick pony. I have an 80 thief and an 80 guardian, I should know.

Apparently you don’t, because that’s not a 1-trick pony. To use that combo, all you need is D/D and damage gear, and you still maintain Stealth (which is the ultimate defense). By comparison, for their optimal burst a Warrior sacrifices 2 Utilities, an Elite, 2 weapon slots, and full damage gear, and really does become a 1-trick pony. If you block a Warrior’s burst, then they become easy prey. You block a Thief’s initial burst? They can still stay in the fight and win, or run without any fear. Hello stealth and initiative.

BTW we all have lv80 Thieves and Guardians, which means we also don’t need to provide an argument or any evidence to back up what we say.

Learn to react to an invis enemy within 1.5s… seems fair and balanced.

^in sPvP for that added balance.

(not my vid)

Alarox.4590:

foofad.5162:

It’s not overpowered. If you spec like that you’re a one trick pony. I have an 80 thief and an 80 guardian, I should know.

Apparently you don’t, because that’s not a 1-trick pony. To use that combo, all you need is D/D and damage gear, and you still maintain Stealth (which is the ultimate defense). By comparison, for their optimal burst a Warrior sacrifices 2 Utilities, an Elite, 2 weapon slots, and full damage gear, and really does become a 1-trick pony. If you block a Warrior’s burst, then they become easy prey. You block a Thief’s initial burst? They can still stay in the fight and win, or run without any fear. Hello stealth and initiative.

BTW we all have lv80 Thieves and Guardians, which means we also don’t need to provide an argument or any evidence to back up what we say.

if you block warrior’s burst he can still leap 2000 range away
if you block an thief glas cannon burst he can still stealth and run away,. But no, he cannot win without initial burst. (at least in 90% of situations glass cannon’s thief won’t tank more then 2-3 skills /hits before die. They got under 2000 defence and 12.000 hp with wvwvw bost.

Alarox.4590:

You people have no idea what you’re talking about. This combo is a 3-shot from stealth from 900 away. Meaning, to be able to counter this, you need to know there is a Thief far away from you who is stealthed (meaning you’re asking everyone to be psychic), or get lucky.

I don’t know about you, but I’m not a paranoid player who constantly spams dodges and Protection when there’s 0 reason to believe there’s a Thief, and that’s what you’re telling everyone to do. “L2p, just spam dodge and all your Protection cooldowns for no reason in any PvP situation you ever find yourself, because there might possibly be a chance a Thief is near you.”

they need to remove your aegis first or all combo will fail. So you will know there is an thief arround that want to burst you down.

Yeah Armor/Toughness scales terribly vs burst DPS. With our already low hp pool, you have to constantly be on your toes in WvW, which sucks.

Archer.1658:

you have to constantly be on your toes in WvW

Sounds perfectly reasonable

Judging by the combat log, the thief was already fighting you before the backstab. You knew it was coming, so why didn’t you take the necessary steps to avoid getting torn up?

PS
Really hard to take someone seriously when they use that elite.

Smitten.3076:

Why do you think the Guardian is the most OP class there is by the way?

The Guardian has, in my opinion, everything. Survivability is top notch, with an amazing amount of damage. A different class that attempts to rival the survivability can eventually come close, but sacrifices everything — a Guardian does not. Proper usage of utilities allows for amazing combat tactics and even better boons (which a Thief loves to steal — but does so in a wrong order!). Virtues can be utilized in fantastic ways, and the low HP is actually a godsend (because you have so much migration and possibly even -43% damage). Do you know how demotivating it is to wear a Guardian down only to have him pop his standard heal and get up to 100% again? Retaliation is nuts against enemies that hit often. Guardians just lack in range (which they make up with bindings, pulls, teleports and some ranged skills) and their elite skill -- but if you’re human, you can use the OP Hounds of Balthazar.

Truly a demonic class as your opponent. If don’t know how many Guardians actually play the different classes, but when you do, you quickly realize there are just a few viable PvP classes (Thief, Elementalist, Guardian, Mesmer) and the (bunker) Guardian is likely to be at the top of the food chain, followed by shattering tank Mesmer and the uncatchable condition thief.

Alarox.4590:

foofad.5162:

It’s not overpowered. If you spec like that you’re a one trick pony. I have an 80 thief and an 80 guardian, I should know.

Apparently you don’t, because that’s not a 1-trick pony. To use that combo, all you need is D/D and damage gear, and you still maintain Stealth (which is the ultimate defense). By comparison, for their optimal burst a Warrior sacrifices 2 Utilities, an Elite, 2 weapon slots, and full damage gear, and really does become a 1-trick pony. If you block a Warrior’s burst, then they become easy prey. You block a Thief’s initial burst? They can still stay in the fight and win, or run without any fear. Hello stealth and initiative.

BTW we all have lv80 Thieves and Guardians, which means we also don’t need to provide an argument or any evidence to back up what we say.

Yes, it is a one trick pony. If you want high burst, you won’t be stacking condition damage. That means your bleeds don’t amount to terribly much. Further, no one is so good at stealthing that can get away without equipping Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder – specced for stealth they’re so good you’re absolutely insane for not taking one or both of them anyway. Then all you need is Shadowstep or Roll for Initiative as a gtfo ability, Haste if you absolutely need to spam Heartseeker right now, or Signet of Shadows for run speed. That’s a lot of utilities that go directly toward being able to stealth and stab people and not a whole lot else.

A thief doesn’t have anything special that lets them stay in the fight post-burst, whether that burst is successful or a failure. No more so than Warriors. All a warrior has to do to burst again is wait for their cooldowns to reset, and they don’t have any awkward positioning requirements or enemy health percentage requirements. Thieves do get some tools, like Roll for Initiative that let you reset and try again, which is nice. But you still have to really work to pull off another burst, or reset completely by gtfoing.

Anyway, this entire thread is fairly useless. Armor is not useless. You’re still taking less damage than you would have taken if you had none. The fact that burst classes can do so much damage isn’t a reflection of armor’s poor scaling, it’s a reflection of crit damage being quite high if you are speced for it. No one specs for armor, there’s no such thing. You can spec for CC, blocks, etc though, which are all hard counters to burst. Armor isn’t intended to be a hard counter to burst.

Which brings us back to Stealth. People say you can’t counter what you don’t see coming. You have a permanent Aegis when you’re not fighting. The first move out of the box is guaranteed to fail. If your Aegis is already down for whatever reason, that means you were in combat anyway and getting bursted when you’re already in combat shouldn’t be a surprise. Once you’ve taken the first hit, you should know what’s coming if it came out of nowhere. Time to hit some more CC and blocks.

None of this should be a surprise to anyone.

P.s., I’ll just leave this here.

I kinda have to agree with the guy here.

It takes the fun out of being a guardian when you take as much damage as other classes.

Why is going in to dmg side of a class rewarding and why is going into tank side of class not as much rewarding?

Burst stats should be negated by toughens and high hp. RIght now in wvwvw burst is a mile ahead of any counters. sPvP not so much really.

The issue is that it’s possible to get a crit dmg %age where armor tends to not relaly mitigate much. I think this is something you have to realize and change how you build/play. Fast reactions and proper spec will allow you to survive. Also like someone mentioned, lol at your elite. You’re probably just sub-par and don’t know how to properly react to burst. May even try running an energy sigil to give you triple dodge. That will allow you to freak out and gain some composure and extra health.

style.6173:

Looks like he just got lucky on 3 crits in a row. Beyond that, when I play guardian thieves don’t even concern me.

But speaking of armor, why are d/d eles the BEST bunker builds? That doesn’t make sense.

Because water 30 is too overpowered in ele, but nerfing it makes the offensive trees even more horrendous for survival than they are now. (imagine thief squishiness with necro damage… bleh!)

Maybe next patch they’ll add some evasive, blocking, or reflecting to elementalists weapons and tone down the passive regen from the water line? (or maybe they’ll just do to eles what they did to eng and eles will become just as bitter)

Sry this post is not for ppl who just kept guessing/judging my play style + laughing at my elite skill but simply ignoring the fact of damage VS armor. In fact this is the highest damage record which I get from my guardian, it needs quite a bit luck +some situation , maybe as Amins mentioned, I had had xx Stacks of Vulnerability atm, but I can’t really recall the details coz it’s during zerg fight (smart ppl should have already noticed that from either my play style or combat log or even my elite skill).
My point is actually very simple: I never say thief is uncounterable for guardian, but when armor becomes the only factor which can mitigate damage(which is usually what you have to face during zerg fight), it’s just useless. (I think I said clearly in topic title, didn’t I?)

It’s an issue with Thiefs (and Warriors) right now being able to hit for excessive amount of damage in short-bursts.

I have an 80 Thief (D/D Backstab build) and 80 Guardian (Support—bunker build).

On my Thief I can use Venom Touch + Steal + Cloak and Dagger + Backstab and 3/4th’s (or kill) somebodies in less than 2 seconds and they can’t do anything because they’re paralyzed and you can’t stun break it. That’s if I can actually get behind them because you spend a lot of time chasing people around on a thief trying to get behind them.

On my Guardian I have 3300 armor in my WvW build and I’ve been crit numerous times for 10,000+ damage by Warriors Killshot. You don’t even get a chance to react or even see it coming when you’re in mass PvP. I mean, if you want proof look at my video and skip to 1:17 → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekhA7Ix1IE

I don’t have as much problems with backstab Thiefs anymore because I know how to counter them now, but a lot of them just faceroll Heartseeker for 4-6k’s back to back.

Focus 5 give you protection from next 3 attacks, and its instant. So if you’re fast enough…

Maiden England.3491:

Focus 5 give you protection from next 3 attacks, and its instant. So if you’re fast enough…

And thats part of the reason I almost always run with one out. Also because of those out of nowhere warriors that charge and quickness 100b you.

Anyways more on topic, i actually ran into an issue with this the other night with against a full zerker warrior. Hit me for 8k evisc and 1.8k auto attacks after. He would pop frenzy, the shout that adds 10stacks of vuln and then use axe2 for more vuln, evisc, then super high damage fast auto attacks. Ate my face before I knew what was going on.

The biggest thing i discovered from that is when you lose half your health in an instant like that, blow every single defensive skill you have, all your virtues, focus skills, anything you pretty much can. Because if you survive that initial burst you pretty much won the fight.

Bakitten291:

Maiden England.3491:

Focus 5 give you protection from next 3 attacks, and its instant. So if you’re fast enough…

And thats part of the reason I almost always run with one out. Also because of those out of nowhere warriors that charge and quickness 100b you.

Anyways more on topic, i actually ran into an issue with this the other night with against a full zerker warrior. Hit me for 8k evisc and 1.8k auto attacks after. He would pop frenzy, the shout that adds 10stacks of vuln and then use axe2 for more vuln, evisc, then super high damage fast auto attacks. Ate my face before I knew what was going on.

The biggest thing i discovered from that is when you lose half your health in an instant like that, blow every single defensive skill you have, all your virtues, focus skills, anything you pretty much can. Because if you survive that initial burst you pretty much won the fight.

Yeah he was complaining about the thiefs OP singleshot abilities, not warrior

Maiden England.3491:

Bakitten291:

Maiden England.3491:

Focus 5 give you protection from next 3 attacks, and its instant. So if you’re fast enough…

And thats part of the reason I almost always run with one out. Also because of those out of nowhere warriors that charge and quickness 100b you.

Anyways more on topic, i actually ran into an issue with this the other night with against a full zerker warrior. Hit me for 8k evisc and 1.8k auto attacks after. He would pop frenzy, the shout that adds 10stacks of vuln and then use axe2 for more vuln, evisc, then super high damage fast auto attacks. Ate my face before I knew what was going on.

The biggest thing i discovered from that is when you lose half your health in an instant like that, blow every single defensive skill you have, all your virtues, focus skills, anything you pretty much can. Because if you survive that initial burst you pretty much won the fight.

Yeah he was complaining about the thiefs OP singleshot abilities, not warrior

And? Works the same way. If you take half your health in damage that fast you pop defenses and try to survive the initial burst. You do that your good. Thieves i find to be even easier in that respect because half the time if you burst them back you win anyways.

foofad.5162:

It’s not overpowered. If you spec like that you’re a one trick pony. I have an 80 thief and an 80 guardian, I should know.

If that one trick is a nearly guaranteed win, then that’s a hell of a trick.

That’s like saying “Oh this new elementalist chain that detonates all boons including block and stealth is perfectly balanced, because it’s a one trick pony!”

An 80 thief has only one purpose: ganking. Anyone who has an 80 thief should have their opinion disregarded, because they’re looking for free ganks, otherwise they’d have rolled a different class.

Once you start down the gank path, forever will it dominate your forum posts. Anything that doesn’t provide a cheap, easy kill in under 5 seconds will be an intolerable affront to class balance. The existence of any weapon anywhere in a class’s arsenal that might stop a gank is now justification for the gank: if you choose ANY OTHER WEAPON other than the one that stops the gank, you are a noob and deserved to die to the gank. If there is one ability anywhere in the possible builds that can stop a gank, all other builds deserved their gank. If you have any abilities at all down at the time of the gank, then death under 5 seconds is just good game balance.

And don’t let those noobs tell you otherwise. Anyone who can’t see the skill involved in ganking is a noob. Anyone who ever died to a gank is a noob, and anyone complaining about ganks is a noob. So l2p, noob.

I can’t tell if you’re joking.

My thief has never pulled one of these mythical 9k backstabs before. My ganking ability is fairly limited 1v1, and I think the highest backstab I’ve ever pulled solo is something like 5k, maybe 6. In groups, yeah when there’s tons of might flying around I can get like 6.5k but I don’t think I’ve topped 7k yet. Never had 25 might stacks to do it though. For comparison, my Guardian gets 5k Zealot’s Defense crits when I’m in my WvW roaming build, solo with no might. But even my guardian isn’t a “gank” spec – I use sword/shield and scepter/shield for WvW roaming when I’m not one of my tankier builds. If I wanted to gank I’d do sword/focus with tons of crit and crit damage and pray for a kill every 45 seconds when I can pull off a Shield of Wrath/ZD combo.

That said, yeah I run D/D and P/D on my thief. It’s fun. But I’m not one of these horrific monsters that everyone seems to hate. I’ve never had a cheap, easy kill solo. Unless you count that time I was surprised by someone walking in on me in Mistwrought and I wasted them, realizing after that they were upleveled.

But this isn’t about me, and your ridiculous, apparently angry attempt at character assassination doesn’t change the fact that you can’t backstab through Aegis and protection reduces damage by 33% and vigor is your friend, etc etc etc.

I’ll tell you what is kitten crap, though – the permastealth C&D wall glitch. That’s ridiculous and should absolutely be fixed immediately. No one should be able to park and stealth indefinitely.

P.s., the only dagger thief that I’ve ever had trouble with is that rotten kitten from Sanctum of Rall who has double Incinerators. I see him a lot, and I see him killing people solo a lot. Given the fact that he has double Incinerators though, I think he has a lot of free time and has probably practiced quite a bit and knows what he’s doing, so I don’t really mind when he does kill people. He’s never gotten me though, that I can recall. Never seen him 1v1 anyone though. Typically it’s him popping in and out of the zerg. Funny thing is, if anyone can chain Immobilize him and drop a load of AoE, he drops really fast.

Perfect reason why Shelter outshines healing signet in WvW.

You didn’t take your anti-burst with ya, then don’t cry about being bursted!

Manticore Five.9867:

If that one trick is a nearly guaranteed win, then that’s a hell of a trick.

That’s like saying “Oh this new elementalist chain that detonates all boons including block and stealth is perfectly balanced, because it’s a one trick pony!”

An 80 thief has only one purpose: ganking. Anyone who has an 80 thief should have their opinion disregarded, because they’re looking for free ganks, otherwise they’d have rolled a different class.

Once you start down the gank path, forever will it dominate your forum posts. Anything that doesn’t provide a cheap, easy kill in under 5 seconds will be an intolerable affront to class balance. The existence of any weapon anywhere in a class’s arsenal that might stop a gank is now justification for the gank: if you choose ANY OTHER WEAPON other than the one that stops the gank, you are a noob and deserved to die to the gank. If there is one ability anywhere in the possible builds that can stop a gank, all other builds deserved their gank. If you have any abilities at all down at the time of the gank, then death under 5 seconds is just good game balance.

And don’t let those noobs tell you otherwise. Anyone who can’t see the skill involved in ganking is a noob. Anyone who ever died to a gank is a noob, and anyone complaining about ganks is a noob. So l2p, noob.

This is so well written i wanna buy u a beer now lol. Hit the nail on the head mate.

George Steel.1804:

Perfect reason why Shelter outshines healing signet in WvW.

You didn’t take your anti-burst with ya, then don’t cry about being bursted!

You do know thiefs can re-burst right? While you’re on a 30 second cd on your allmighty anti-burst skill they can setup a second burst attack :x

Also why cant people stay on topic and stop bringing up anti burst skills vs burst skills?
In case you dont understand the OP is talking about stats and not skills.

I was fighting an Engi the other day and it was going wonderfully well as I was maintaining 14K HP through out the fight when all of a sudden I got burst for 15K in literally 1 second. Unless you have the reaction time of a god and know the exact ability animations for every burst attack start then there really isn’t much you can do frankly.

I play mainly a thief in WvWvW, never played a guardian but i never run from someone just cause he is a guardian.
It was mentioned that killing thiefs is easy cause aegis stops first attack: false, if i see you have aegis up ill SB 1 you to remove it, if i see its a bad guardian ill even use dancing dagger and unload on him after that and guards die just as any other class.
Also if a thief uses first attack from stealth like steal, killing him is oh so easy since the C&D will not stealth him-most guards brag about killing these guys and then go on saying what pro thief busters they are. You’re not, they are just crap thiefs.

Another point: if you’re runing without stun break in WvW, you’re going to have a bad time. Most thiefs that pull those numbers use skale and are actually very bad cause they cant hit kitten unless you stand still, so using stun break will get you out of that and free to counter them.

Another point: if you cant react that fast im sorry thats your fault and you desrve to die. I run a GC thief with shadowstep and get away from those kinds of thiefs regularly.