Guild Wars 2

so tonight i was dueling a mesmer in wvw, had him already downed, when suddenly i drop from almost full hp to downed state. i manage to finish him off and res and then check combat log when i see an 8.8k dmg from… smoke bomb??? (see screenshot)

i did not see anyone nearby (also after i rallied noone attacked me).

since when does smoke bomb do damage? or is it a wrong entry in the combat log? or could it be hacks? so confused…

does anyone have an explanation for this or encountered something similar?

The same thing happened to me just a few minutes ago – and it was not the first time. Combat log states i have been hit by xxx invader for 5.3k damage using smoke bomb.

Funny thing is, I was finishing a mesmer in wvw, too. I can’t remember the other classes I fought when those strange smoke bomb hits occured, so I can’t say it is a “mesmer only bug”. Anyway, this should be fixed ASAP (no matter if it is just a faulty log entry or a bug).

This is not a bug, it’s the last mesmer skill in downed state : “Phantasmal Rogue” which does double damage from behind. The problem is that the phantasm pop in your back and skill immediately, so it almost always does double damage.

Being hit for 8k by someone “already dead” is plain stupid, and this should be tuned down quickly.

Yggdrasil.7940:

This is not a bug, it’s the last mesmer skill in downed state : “Phantasmal Rogue” which does double damage from behind. The problem is that the phantasm pop in your back and skill immediately, so it almost always does double damage.

Being hit for 8k by someone “already dead” is plain stupid, and this should be tuned down quickly.

downed is nowhere close to dead. there are foods and gear sets to have bonuses while downed.
as for that mesmers attack – you can dodge or block it. also it need los like all other clones. fail on blind, as clones/phantasms now work like ‘normal’ attacks.

and 8k demage from one glass cannon to other glass cannon isn’t much. and it has long cooldown too.

Saulius.8430:

and 8k demage from one glass cannon to other glass cannon isn’t much. and it has long cooldown too.

Tell this to the whiners on Thief forum

Also it is kinda lot of dmg from a downed skill imho…

Please fix this. It’s been happening to my friends and I when finishing off mesmers.

It hit me for 6k and hit my friend for 7k. This is stupid.

The initial cooldown on a mesmers downed skill 3 aint short. You’re lucky to get it off. And unless you’re a zerker mes, you’re not going to be dealing that sort of damage.
As with any class, to go full glass cannon you’re giving up something. That a mes is down on the ground and has the ability to still dish damage to get back up is an intended part of their build. Working as intended.

yep…ya gots 20 seconds ta kill ‘em before they can pop it off again. personally I think theres plenty o other things that needs a fixin’ before one worries about a poor mezzies downed state “elite” hehe.

Don’t go glass cannon then. I play mesmer sometimes, and I’ve seen it hit 2.5k against a bunker guardian to 6-7k on glass cannon thieves.

i personally am sick of people whining about mesmers…especially d/d eles and thieves…this is what i hear: “WTF? How did i get hit for 8k by a mesmer?” then two minutes late " HOLY COW! i just hit that kitten for 12k with backstab! woohoo!" or “stupid condition mesmer…im a d/d ele”

IMO its to that point where people have tweaked their builds to the point where you can down someone in 2 hits and be stealthed or evading the entire time so theres no chance to even attack back…once you give up your massively overpowered auot-attack then you can complain about a build that sacrifices sooooo much to get a couple high numbers

wait wait wait wait…going back through this because i have nothing else to do it just dawned on me that you beat that mesmer…and youre calling for a nerf…youve got to be kidding me…theres no way in hell you could call for a nerf after winning a fight

Tinq.4201:

so tonight i was dueling a mesmer in wvw, had him already downed, when suddenly i drop from almost full hp to downed state. i manage to finish him off and res and then check combat log when i see an 8.8k dmg from… smoke bomb??? (see screenshot)

i did not see anyone nearby (also after i rallied noone attacked me).

since when does smoke bomb do damage? or is it a wrong entry in the combat log? or could it be hacks? so confused…

does anyone have an explanation for this or encountered something similar?

I fought a Mesmer in wvw… I ran all knights and also berserkers gear… When he was down the “smoke bomb” hit me for only 2.4k… so in order for you to suffer 8k you must have had a ton of vuln on you or are a super squishy GC yourself.. In which case. boo hoo

Edit: these must be coming from people running GC. But you know what? Take the rogue off of downed put the mage there instead to stack confusion and then give us the rogue on the torch hahahahahahaha!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Bomb

what does mesmer have to do with anything?

IF it was a mesmer, it was probably a wording bug on our downed rogue skill. However, that skill takes forever to come up. You basically have to down a mesmer and sit there staring at him for almost a minute, then stand still when it obviously spawns behind you. The easiest way to finish a mesmer is to just spike him. It negates all his skills. If he teleports, find him and spike him, and he won’t even have the rogue skill up yet. As with most things with the mesmer, it plays on people mostly just spamming auto attacks….if you down a mesmer, spike him. Don’t sit there auto attacking him, thats how the confusion gets you.

So, to sum up: spike him instead of staring at him. Rejoice.

Sounds like Phantasmal Fury may be playing a role in that as well. How much does a Phantasmal Rogue do? Then add a Crit to that….
I don’t play a Mesmer with High Crit but does a Mesmers Increased Crit Dmg transfer to their Phantasms?
Did the offended parties still have any Vulnerability Conditions on them?

They mixed up the Mesmer’s downed state combat log attacks with Thiefs.

When you use #1 when in down state it shows up in the combat log as Trick Shot and your #3 is called Smoke Bomb.

Phantasm Attacks have names which, like most aspects of the Mesmer, haven’t been touched up since beta (we still have traits to increase clone damage after all, and their dmg was nerfed to nil). Off the top of my head, Rogue is Smoke Bomb (he used to throw blinding daggers and was our #2 skill), Zerker is Imaginary Burden, and Mage is Backfire.

Anyhow, the #3 skills are by and large meant to help you recover from downed, either by healing you or killing enemies or a mixture of both (or the Guardian). They are supposed to be a last ditch burst of damage, each has it’s trade offs. Guardian’s is very close proximity, but heals them too. Thief’s get more avoidance but can then combo into a big ambush attack with their 1 skill (though not as hard as normal since they get the stealth aspect too after all), Warriors get 15s to dish out as much damage as possible, possibly rallying if they kill something, etc. Mesmers get a Phantasm which has lower than average base damage but the potential to deal higher than average damage if the opponent doesn’t avoid the back stab. It fits the Mesmer theme, either you stand there and keep attacking/stomping me and take the full attack or avoid it and give me a respite.

Dastion.3106:

Phantasm Attacks have names which, like most aspects of the Mesmer, haven’t been touched up since beta (we still have traits to increase clone damage after all, and their dmg was nerfed to nil). Off the top of my head, Rogue is Smoke Bomb (he used to throw blinding daggers and was our #2 skill), Zerker is Imaginary Burden, and Mage is Backfire.

Anyhow, the #3 skills are by and large meant to help you recover from downed, either by healing you or killing enemies or a mixture of both (or the Guardian). They are supposed to be a last ditch burst of damage, each has it’s trade offs. Guardian’s is very close proximity, but heals them too. Thief’s get more avoidance but can then combo into a big ambush attack with their 1 skill (though not as hard as normal since they get the stealth aspect too after all), Warriors get 15s to dish out as much damage as possible, possibly rallying if they kill something, etc. Mesmers get a Phantasm which has lower than average base damage but the potential to deal higher than average damage if the opponent doesn’t avoid the back stab. It fits the Mesmer theme, either you stand there and keep attacking/stomping me and take the full attack or avoid it and give me a respite.

Yea, the skill is working as intended. It only hits that hard if they are a glass cannon which is probably why they were on the ground in the first place. It’s hard to predict it’s use since, because of it’s long timer, it’s not used very frequently by Mesmers. I’m usually dead just before I could use it and half the time I do use it it doesn’t even seem to back stab the enemy like it’s supposed to.

This is all dependent on whether the RNG on my #2 decided whether or not it was going to teleport me into my enemies AoE or not.

The Mesmer downstate abilities while better than some other classes are not as amazing as people seem to make them out to be. I would trade our #2 for the elementalists mist form any day of the week.

this happened to me yesterday for the first time and no enemies were even around me (two dead bodies but none moving) and i thought it was a stealth thief but nothing… 7.1k damage on 1800 toughness and no one was around.

mesmer goes down you begin finisher… at last moment he stealths/teleports a short distance… you see the big read arrow over the real mesmers head and begin finisher again… your finisher will kill the mesmer before the ability to summon the phantasm even becomes available.

I dont see the problem.

All you newbies sound like you never new the rogue existed, well heres a tip, get ready to dodge after the memser does the port. Once they raise their hand again its comming. I havnt been hit by a rogue phantasm as far as I can remember.

@EdenWolf

So you have to dodge once again, giving more time to the mesmer.

If he is GC, he is already hiting you for 1.5k with mindblast. If in a group fight, and you can’t kill him before he summon his rogue, you ether eat rogue for 6-8k, or you dodge, and start stomping again for 3-4 sec of mind blast hiting you for 1.5k and confusion.

As I said in a thread of WvW, I’m not posting this to nerf Mesmer downed. Elem and Thief actually have better downed. But Mesmer have a really strong downed, and if you compare it to Engineer and Necromancer, there is a big difference. And dodging the rogue won’t make him disappear. He can still attack.

Kardiamond.6952:

And dodging the rogue won’t make him disappear. He can still attack.

His attack takes so long to hit after the initial attempt it’s crazy. If anyone is getting hit more than once by an iRogue they are doing something very very wrong.

Harbinger.9645:

The Mesmer downstate abilities while better than some other classes are not as amazing as people seem to make them out to be. I would trade our #2 for the elementalists mist form any day of the week.

Agreed, our downstate is ridiculous. Unless you’re an idiot Ranger with a short bow it’s really tough to take you down – even then they can very easily kill us in their downed state or just heal up. Ranger’s lick wounds is way OP, it’s equivalent to 2 people rezzing at once and as if they were out of battle. It’s pretty annoying but it seems like the devs only care about nerfing mesmers not improving them.

Edenwolf.6328:

All you newbies sound like you never new the rogue existed, well heres a tip, get ready to dodge after the memser does the port. Once they raise their hand again its comming. I havnt been hit by a rogue phantasm as far as I can remember.

lol that’s because they don’t hit 90% of time… and even if they do, it’s extremely rare they’ll hit a backstab, the just to some fail version of heartseeker without dealing any dmg.

Harbinger.9645:

Kardiamond.6952:

And dodging the rogue won’t make him disappear. He can still attack.

His attack takes so long to hit after the initial attempt it’s crazy. If anyone is getting hit more than once by an iRogue they are doing something very very wrong.

Group fight, a player down a mesmer.
chaos around, the player can’t stomp right away the mesmer. He lose about 3-4 second.
He goes to stomp the mesmer, mesmer use number 2.
Goes to stomp again, mesmer cast rogue.
Player dodge.
Player goes for stomp again.
Rogue hit again at the end of the stomp.
Mesmer use number 2.

People say rogue take a long time to come up. It’s the same thing as other number 3. If you don’t stomp right away, the rogue will be up.

Mesmer downed state is good, don’t live in denial. More then half classes have it worse.

Kardiamond.6952:

Group fight, a player down a mesmer.
chaos around, the player can’t stomp right away the mesmer. He lose about 3-4 second.
He goes to stomp the mesmer, mesmer use number 2.
Goes to stomp again, mesmer cast rogue.
Player dodge.
Player goes for stomp again.
Rogue hit again at the end of the stomp.
Mesmer use number 2.

People say rogue take a long time to come up. It’s the same thing as other number 3. If you don’t stomp right away, the rogue will be up.

Mesmer downed state is good, don’t live in denial. More then half classes have it worse.

He doesn’t just take a long time to come up he also attacks very slowly. I sincerely doubt the timing to just layed out in this scenario is even legit, but even if it was the iRogue doesn’t seek out the back of an enemy is just follows it around so if the second attack lands there’s a strong chance it’s not going to hit you for any considerable damage.

Just because other classes have it worse doesn’t make what we have good. You can call it denial but I’ve played some considerable time with my Mesmer and other’s have as well and if you aren’t willing to believe what we are telling you then I guess there’s no convincing you and it’s really a waste of time trying. My personal experience disproves what people are saying and that’s enough for me to believe that either people are lying or are just not sure how to deal with a Mesmer when they are downed and are blaming the mechanics of the game.

@Harbinger

I did a lot of test yesterday with a GC mesmer. If I downed him, and didn’t stomp him RIGHT AWAY (like if I lose 2-3 sec to heal with med kit bandage because his mindblast hit me for 1.5k) he would be able to use iRogue.

And it also happened that If I dodged iRogue, he would be able to use number 2 again, and the iRogue would attack once again.

It’s still hiting for 3-4k on the second hit, even if it’s not from the back. That’s still a good amount.

Top 3 downed state for me :
- Elem
-Thief/Mesmer

Thief number 2 is better to interrupt, but you can dps down thief pretty easily. Something you can’t do on mesmer. Even if they are power, confusion still hit hard, as well as mind blast. Mesmer also have the pre casted phantasm help.

Are you saying that what you have isn’t good? I really disagree with you. You play a necromancer, which are prolly the second easiest class to stomp.

Are you saying your necro downed is as good as your mesmer? Necro got good damage, but that’s about it. It won’t save you.

Kardiamond.6952:

Are you saying that what you have isn’t good? I really disagree with you. You play a necromancer, which are prolly the second easiest class to stomp.

Are you saying your necro downed is as good as your mesmer? Necro got good damage, but that’s about it. It won’t save you.

I said none of those things. I’m simply saying that just because other people are worse off doesn’t mean the Mesmer downed state is as amazing as everyone is saying. It has it’s good sides and it’s bad side.

Just so you don’t put any more words in my mouth again I will give you my evaluation of the mesmer downed state given my personal experience and not some test I did with a friend.

Skill #1: Does decent damage (if you’re a GC) and causes confusion (which is good if you’re a condition mesmer). Those two scenarios don’t really happen at the same time it’s one or the other. It has a pretty short range and if you’re getting hit by it then move to range and attack.

Skill #2: It can stop an initial stomp from a group of people, which is great. A lot of classes have one of these, I would argue all classes should have this ability but not all classes are built equally so that’s up to the devs to balance. It teleports you which sounds nice, but in reality it usually teleports you to the worst possible places (IE: into enemies AoE or into an enemy zerg) which in some cases is actually a worse position than you were in before. It also summons a clone which is only useful for additional confusion stacks. It either dies right away though or you’re getting spiked so that confusion stack is nullified since it will only trigger once if it even gets a chance to.

Skill #3: On a GC mesmer can hit hard…let’s emphasize CAN. If it happens to hit their back AND crit it CAN do decent damage. It takes a while to be able to summon it, it has very little health, a long wind up time on it’s attack, and most of the time will not hit the targets back which is when it will do meaningful damage. This damage is easily avoidable by dodging and/or killing the weak phantasm…even AoE will kill it fairly fast. Even if you are getting hit by the iRogue for 4k it’s not a rapid fire ability you should be able to kill the rogue very quickly so as to not take another hit.

In a real pvp scenario enemies will barely bat an eye and you will be dead. IF the stars happen to align in your favor you might get a rally off of it, probably not though.

So in reality all this has done is give you a slight chance to rally…which isn’t that the point in the first place?