Guild Wars 2

I thought it might help to get a little real-world data on iBeserker, so I took a build where the zerkie would have a 66% crit chance and 72% crit damage down to Orr. I did 40 attacks against a variety of mobs (risen humanoids, rise bull, oozes). I have the Sharper Images trait, so it was easy to count critical hits by the number of bleed stacks. (I turned off all other attacks.)

There was one complete miss. I was so surprised. I cast berserker and watched him zip through the target and I looked for damage numbers, and then I realized nothing happened and the target hadn’t even aggro’d.

Of the 39 remaining samples, the averages for damage and crits didn’t seem that crazy. Average damage (not including the miss) was 2995. On average, there were 2.23 crits per zerkie charge. If all 4 swings are supposed to hit one target, then the average should come out to 2.64 crits at a 66% crit chance.

Other than the miss, here are a few things that seem odd:
Lowest damage was 1198 with one crit. Highest damage was 6366 with 3 crits.
There was a 1671 damage with 3 crits sample. And a 2930 with 1 crit.

I wasn’t diligent enough to keep track of the number of hits per sweep, but I never had zero crits nor more than 4 crits.

But the basic thing that stands out here is that there must be a lot of variability in the damage range for each hit. To get 1671 damage and 3 crits, you pretty much have to assume something like 3 hits of 250 points each. And to get 6366 and 3 crits, it seems like the average hit needed to be around 840 (and assume you got 3 crits and one normal).

So when you combine the randomness of the number of hits, the randomness of crit chance, and the apparent range of values for base damage per hit, you get a really wide range of outcomes. (As I was getting ready to test, I saw result of 560 total damage for a pass, but it never came up in my test samples.)

I’m guessing the hit detection is the hard part to tweak in the code, but it seems like there is a potentially easy improvement in just reducing the range of the base damage.

Any other testing would be very interesting to see (particularly where specific number of hits were tracked)

The inconsistency is my biggest problem w/the phantasm. I see results very similar to yours. When I call him, I never know if I’m going to get a 1k hit or a 6-7k hit. And, that’s with him having over an 80% chance to crit along w/very high power,crit damage, and 30% trait damage. I have a real love/hate relationship with iZerker, lol. Thanks for doing those tests.

One thing to consider is the differences in the foes stats. If you had done your attacks against a single type of foe, I think we could safely speculate a little more on the results.

Haven’t they said like 5 times that the damage floaters aren’t always displaying properly? Because they( ANET) have said it a LOT and everyone seems to ignore it…

Probably because it’s a lot of bs.

Iruwen.3164:

Probably because it’s a lot of bs.

Well 3 crits for only 1600ish damage? Yeah, bull kitten, even my BM ranger in magi gear can’t hit that soft, and if his low for one crit was only ~600 behind that there’s NO WAY he did that little damage on a 3 crit.

God, you’d think that people playing the ILLUSIONIST prof would realize seeing isn’t believing.

The larger hit values tend to occur when the target is butted up against a solid object so the zerker spins into the object and keeps spinning hitting the target with all 4 of it’s whirling strikes.

Saying it’s a “problem with the floaters” is all well and good, but it’s bullkitten. I’ve seen plenty of examples where a “big hit” zerker has melted a target, whereas a “weak hit” zerker has barely scratched an identical target. If the problem was purely cosmetic every target should melt like a “big hit”

Ryuujin.8236:

The larger hit values tend to occur when the target is butted up against a solid object so the zerker spins into the object and keeps spinning hitting the target with all 4 of it’s whirling strikes.

Saying it’s a “problem with the floaters” is all well and good, but it’s bullkitten. I’ve seen plenty of examples where a “big hit” zerker has melted a target, whereas a “weak hit” zerker has barely scratched an identical target. If the problem was purely cosmetic every target should melt like a “big hit”

You know what else has this issue? Both the ele (fiery great sword) and warrior (great sword) skills that our phantasm mimics, you know what that means? It’s how the bloody skill works!

The izerker doesn’t hit as weak as a lot of people think because half the time it’s just not showing how hard it really hit. Granted the skill doesn’t always hit a moving target as many times as it will hit a target pinned to a wall, but neither do warriors or eles.

Durzlla.6295:

Ryuujin.8236:

The larger hit values tend to occur when the target is butted up against a solid object so the zerker spins into the object and keeps spinning hitting the target with all 4 of it’s whirling strikes.

Saying it’s a “problem with the floaters” is all well and good, but it’s bullkitten. I’ve seen plenty of examples where a “big hit” zerker has melted a target, whereas a “weak hit” zerker has barely scratched an identical target. If the problem was purely cosmetic every target should melt like a “big hit”

You know what else has this issue? Both the ele (fiery great sword) and warrior (great sword) skills that our phantasm mimics, you know what that means? It’s how the bloody skill works!

The izerker doesn’t hit as weak as a lot of people think because half the time it’s just not showing how hard it really hit. Granted the skill doesn’t always hit a moving target as many times as it will hit a target pinned to a wall, but neither do warriors or eles.

I agree with this. If you make a Warrior and put on a Greatsword, then use your sweeping skill, you’re going to kitten out compared to what you’re expecting. If anything, iZerker was bugged and doing too much damage before.

Jackums.3496:

Durzlla.6295:

Iruwen.3164:

Probably because it’s a lot of bs.

Well 3 crits for only 1600ish damage? Yeah, bull kitten, even my BM ranger in magi gear can’t hit that soft, and if his low for one crit was only ~600 behind that there’s NO WAY he did that little damage on a 3 crit.

God, you’d think that people playing the ILLUSIONIST prof would realize seeing isn’t believing.

People have done testing and confirmed that it’s not just a floater issue.

Read the forums.

It’s not just a floater issue, although that may be an issue as well. In my testing, both with a stationary target without obstructions, and a stationary target against a wall, using 100% crit chance to easily count the number of hits, the zerker still has absolutely no consistency in the number of times it hits. It is broken badly.

I try to throw things against a wall before using Illusionary Berserker. I don’t always get full damage that way either… but it helps it not to miss.

It does tend to miss some swings on stationary targets, but so do all moving whirl attacks. On moving targets it usually hits all swings, but the floaters don’t show (but the moving hp bar does). Did quite a bit of testing in WvW with an enemy and for example I’d see a damage floater of 2000, he’d have about 6000 damage in his combat log for the same attack.

Since when does the combat log show phantasm damage?

Iruwen.3164:

Since when does the combat log show phantasm damage?

Since Always.

If you get hit by a iZerker it’s called Imagined Burden.

Iruwen.3164:

Since when does the combat log show phantasm damage?

It’ll show the damage on the receiving end.

That being said, I did my tests with 100% crit chance on the zerker, meaning that every time it hit, it would put a stack of bleed on the target. That way, I can easily count the number of hits it does.

LOLOLOLOL no fix AGAIN!

I still can’t believe people are saying this is a “floaters” issue. Those who are saying it either work for Arenanet or don’t play a GS mesmer.

I have 56% chance of crit with 105% crit damage (when I crit, I hurt, unless it’s iB then I might as well use a fish). I hit a stationary Away From Keyboard (can’t use the acronym for it) enemy in WvW last night for 900 with iB yet SS did 2000. You can easily notice the difference between the 900 and 2000 on their HP bar, it was roughly half of what SS took.

If it was a “floaters” issue then a third of their bar would’ve been erased, but no, it was just a small slice so it definately was only 900 damage done. No obstruction, no blinds, no ageis, stationary (was a levelled up theif) therefore iB should’ve hit atleast MAX times.

What really annoys me is the complete refusal of Arenanet to acknowledge that there is a problem, which simply leaves me to believe they have no idea on how to fix it so it’s easier to claim it doesn’t exist.

Mesmer’s have suffered the nerf hammer to the point where we don’t have a lot of options left so we expect that bugs like this should be fixed within a reasonable time frame. MONTHS is NOT A REASONABLE TIME FRAME.

Zerker needs to hit once. If it hits, the target insta dies. No downed. If the zerker misses, he dies.

GS fo life yo.

Let’s just have the Berserker use HB instead.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Let’s just have the Berserker use HB instead.

I doubt i’d be the only one that’d like this, especially if it still crippled.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Let’s just have the Berserker use HB instead.

That would be interesting.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Let’s just have the Berserker use HB instead.

That would be interesting.

I think I’d rather have it stay as a mobile phantasm, or have a range in a line if it has to be stationary.

What I have in mind is it would shoot a large beam in a line at the target which will slow units hit by it. It could then hit multiple times, but the beam would stay in a line (see: GS1 WITHOUT following the target, but bigger).

Esplen.3940:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Let’s just have the Berserker use HB instead.

That would be interesting.

I think I’d rather have it stay as a mobile phantasm, or have a range in a line if it has to be stationary.

What I have in mind is it would shoot a large beam in a line at the target which will slow units hit by it. It could then hit multiple times, but the beam would stay in a line (see: GS1 WITHOUT following the target, but bigger).

Better idea, make it work kinda like the Guardian sword move where as it swings the sword projectiles (non reflectable) fly out that deal less damage at range but could still cripple.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Let’s just have the Berserker use HB instead.

We have the warden for “stand still and murder things”, and it would be objectively worse for not having projectile destruction or a finisher. Unless the CD/recharge was much, much shorter. I suppose it could make for some good AoE pressure (or damage for PvE).

If I had to pick another warrior GS skill, I’d take Bladetrail. Keep the cripple, keep the in-a-line-AoE, and range tends to be good for phantasms. Potential damage could take a dip, but two hits are common with this ability (and modifiers could of course be tweaked).