Guild Wars 2

You definitly didn’t think about all paths like you just noticed yourself. It was just a lucky coincidence for you that 3x 20 mins = 1h. Especially after you said “Naked is one hour nub”. Therefore you seem to be perplexed so you try to stack every argument you just found. And then the “anyway” to distract from your obvious loss so smart, boy.

To compare WvW skill with PvE skill is about the same as to compare an artist with a draftsman. They both “play the same game” but like completly differenct challenges. PvE is a chilling game where you can set up tactics and try to figure out what works the best. WvW is like fighting a huge mass of “smarter” enemies. However to be proud of yourself beating 3 enemies doesnt allways mean that you are good, it often means you just have beaten 3 enemies that try to level via wvw. If you talk about skill and micromanagement better go PvP with organized groups. However to say PvE content is no skill is completly bull"stuff".

You wanted me to run it naked no? Well, I guess I’m quite close to 1hour if you do it naked.
Or wait, isnt 3×20min = 1h?
Or wait, isnt p4 about 45mins?
Lot’s of ways you diss yourself.

In a bad to average group, to run all paths of a dungeon would take an hour except Arah which could take anything from three hours to 8+. I’m only asking you to run a single dungeon path, choose whichever path of Arah you find easier and run it naked.

Anyway, if you would even know what WvW was and what guilds were there, you would probably speak on another tone. 1 Fight of 25vs 80 IRON/RAGE/NuKe without the idiotic server lag lately, required more skill than you ever needed in whole PvE.

Well I was in CoN for a few months so I’m pretty familiar with WvW. And to be perfectly honest with you, the only guy with any skill in a WvW guild is whoever is leading the raid, all you have to train yourself to do is follow instructions, so in your case Sacrx and in my case Rida. In dungeons you don’t even get that, especially for Arah skipping you have to use purely your own skills, reflexes and time your damage mitigation well enough. Sure, that exists in WvW too, but you’ll have like 10+ guys with you to help you with that too, plus you’re built more defensively unlike full berserker in PvE which doesn’t leave much room for error.

Would it really pain you to admit that some of the high-end PvE content is actually skill intensive?

Xyonon.3987:

You definitly didn’t think about all paths like you just noticed yourself. It was just a lucky coincidence for you that 3x 20 mins = 1h. Especially after you said “Naked is one hour nub”. Therefore you seem to be perplexed so you try to stack every argument you just found. And then the “anyway” to distract from your obvious loss so smart, boy.

To compare WvW skill with PvE skill is about the same as to compare an artist with a draftsman. They both “play the same game” but like completly differenct challenges. PvE is a chilling game where you can set up tactics and try to figure out what works the best. WvW is like fighting a huge mass of “smarter” enemies. However to be proud of yourself beating 3 enemies doesnt allways mean that you are good, it often means you just have beaten 3 enemies that try to level via wvw. If you talk about skill and micromanagement better go PvP with organized groups. However to say PvE content is no skill is completly bull"stuff".

No, I was screaming a random time needed to complete the dungeon naked since that was not the point I was trying to make.
There’s no challenge in doing 1 path 100 times and beating it. As you as 1 path of one of the ’’hardest’’ dungeons takes about 20mins then you should be able to ’’master’’ all paths in less than a week.
Now that’s fun, what to do with the other 51 weeks?
I’m not blaming you for this, because it’s anets fault that there’s no hardcore PvE content in this game. But saying the hardest pve requires skill or is harder than hardcore WvW is just something to laugh about.

@Colesy
Lol I stopped reading after you said you were in con and said rida was skilled. Funny man you are.
I know rida much longer and better than you so yes, I know what he’s up to and what not.

And no, follow instructions is not really what raids are about. If you really think RG was raiding exactly like how sacrx was shouting at us to do, we would never be able to kill such blobs or win every gvg. Sacrx was also for sure not the most skilled at playing his char, however, he was the most skilled at leading raids and at movement. Big difference between that.
In most cases the whole backline was doing what they thought was right and not following orders 123 because sacrx thought it was better.

Ofc no one runs full zeker in raids. Too much random damage you take from aoe’s. The point that people actually talk about healing specs in PvE is already a sign of lack of skill.

So – how long did it take you to do TA p3?

Lol I stopped reading after you said you were in con and said rida was skilled. Funny man you are.
I know rida much longer and better than you so yes, I know what he’s up to and what not.

You didn’t stop reading at all.

And no, follow instructions is not really what raids are about. If you really think RG was raiding exactly like how sacrx was shouting at us to do, we would never be able to kill such blobs or win every gvg. Sacrx was also for sure not the most skilled at playing his char, however, he was the most skilled at leading raids and at movement. Big difference between that.
In most cases the whole backline was doing what they thought was right and not following orders 123 because sacrx thought it was better.

Right, so backline are more focused on keeping themselves alive. Obviously they don’t follow the commander to the dot since they’re squishier and would just be rallybots, but the heavy melee classes stick much closer to the commander, which generally just involves following orders, personal survival and performing rehearsed combat manoeuvres.

Arah involves personal survival and performing skill rotations if you want to complete it in any reasonable time frame.

Ofc no one runs full zeker in raids. Too much random damage you take from aoe’s. The point that people actually talk about healing specs in PvE is already a sign of lack of skill.

And do you know what those bads talking about healing specs get rewarded with? Hours in a dungeon if there’s no zerker to carry them. I pug’d Arah p4 a few weeks ago (joined a “no noobs” group on lfg) and they were awful, I literally carried their DPS through … I think four boss fights and at that point I just said screw it and left.

The point I’m trying to make, is there is skill intensive PvE content and WvW can be skill intensive too. You have karma trains in WvW and faceroll COF p1 in PvE, but the fact is, both game modes have challenging content. The challenge however doesn’t lie in completing the content, rather it lies in the efficiency of it – sure you can 100-man blob everything in WvW and you can camp range for every PvE dungeon fight, but to perform properly, with organised raids over TS with 20 guys busting 50 man blobs (and I can assure you, the one time I saw RG which was on their last night on reset in eternal, it seemed like you just wasted everything in front of you) or five experienced guys blitzing through Arah or Fractal 79, they both take skill.

So how long does it take you to do an Arah path (excluding 4)?

We should just get back to topic ….

I don’t think you get the concept of PvE in this game. It’s supposed to be accomplished with any build you want to run, which is possible. You can complete every dungeon on every way you want it to get completed, the only difference is the time it takes, though you still complete the dungeon and get the rewards.

Can’t say that of PvP. You can’t simpily win the same 25v60 with random specs than what you did with specs that requires teamwork. You will die and get no rewards at all.

It’s funny that all of you mention ‘’hey i can do this in XX mins so it requires skill’‘.
Yes maybe it does require skill then, but that’s only because you made the game harder to complete than it is. PvE doesnt require skill because anyone can do it. There’s no time limit on any dungeon to succes before you ’’fail’’ it.

Xyonon.3987:

We should just get back to topic ….

Well you and colesy pretty much answered the question of the OP:
Yes it might be a good healer, but it’s not required in PvE, WvW or any content in the game.

very good for fractals when you need to tank i guess, however some bosses in arah are really easy with two mesmers rotating mantra heals while you have 3 dps

there is no “tank” in higher fractales anymore. the air should tank as much as possible :P

colesy reminds me of someone that I and the rest of the impossibly-mathematics-heavy FFXI community argued with for about 2 of the 9 years I played that game. He eventually gave up, and now I don’t even remember his in-game name. DPS isn’t everything. Having said that, I’d love to run a dungeon with him sometime before I say anything else. More than one, actually… and definitely not CoF.

Xyonon.3987:

there is no “tank” in higher fractales anymore. the air should tank as much as possible :P

wrong, theres the point in clifside and then there is the gate in urban, two mesmers with TW and mantra heal makes it so much easier for pug groups

Xyonon.3987:

Alissah, my toughts on your post:

• I can change traits if i do thinks like a guild rush. to keep it in dungeons because you need it at guild rushes just makes you look too lazy to retrait for 3.5 silver.

Restorative Mantras is an inspiration master trait, all proper dungeon builds have atleast 25 inspiration.

BlackDevil.9268:

Anyway, if you would even know what WvW was and what guilds were there, you would probably speak on another tone. 1 Fight of 25vs 80 IRON/RAGE/NuKe without the idiotic server lag lately, required more skill than you ever needed in whole PvE.

Or maybe a bit smaller scale since you think raids don’t require skill:
Winning 1v3’s against equal/better geared people every day. Those are the people who got stuck in pve too long and have no idea what to do when fighting 1 guy with 2 mates on his side.

Jesus christ I just want to read some good ol’ tactics without some alpha Mesmer spouting out zomg you all suxs wvw better. Seriously, what’s with the elitism? This is a Mesmer forum, and the good folks here are just discussing PvE strategies, so what exactly is your problem? Because guess what, and this is a real eye opener, some people actually do enjoy PvE more than PvP/WvW.

If you want to talk WvW, go post on that section. I see no reason why you’re here other than to just bash on people talking about Mesmer things on a Mesmer forum.

Xyonon.3987:

We should just get back to topic ….

Yes, please.

Alissah.9281:

I like mantra healing. Especially because you dont need healing power to make it effective (it heals like 2700 with 300, and only 3000 with like 1500). In something like the grawl fractal, you can just let 3 phantasms dps while you go sword/focus sword/pistol, or maybe sword. I think the pistol will stay alive better.

no it means, lack of effectiveness..
2600 + Healing power x 0.2 but dont forget there is a 2.45 sec casting time..
0.2/ 2.45 = 0.07
it means not use of %20 effectiveness it use %7
look regen (0.125 * Healing Power) per second

regen is %78.. more effective than using healing power than restoratives

Like I said right after what you also quoted:
PvE doesnt require skill because anyone can do it. There’s no time limit on any dungeon to succes before you ’’fail’’ it.

Anyone can WvW.

Can you fail WvW? Yes you can, pretty fast actually. Can you fail PvE? Well maybe if you play like total kittens like playing a game for the first time. Like you said, even with 4 kittens you could complete arah p4, which in your opinion is one of the hardest paths in game.

If you judge losing on points as failing, sure. But doesn’t every WvW guild just go on about “good fights”?

It’s not like you could get 25 pugs together and say: ‘’hey those 25 guys can kill 60 guys in less than 5 mins, so we should be able to do it in 10mins.’’ No you will fail, which in PvE is almost next to impossible.

Well, no. Take Tequatl for example, you could get 80 dudes and kill it, but then you can say “lets also get 80 dudes and kill it faster”, and you will if you’re more organised.

You can carry on with WvW master race drivel though, but until you can show me a video of you doing Arah naked, your own Lupicus solo or even just a video of you doing a run fast and efficiently by just 111-ing and dodging, then I think my opinion of certain PvE activities being skill intensive stands firm.

@mambastik
No, I was amazed you guys are even talking about PvE builds and even more amazed about healing specs in pve.
You guys should’ve played Rift of like ~1.5/2 years ago. Now that were some actual hard dungeons which you could actually fail. Not like these ‘’no time limit’’ dungeons done in 20mins

BlackDevil.9268:

@mambastik
No, I was amazed you guys are even talking about PvE builds and even more amazed about healing specs in pve.
You guys should’ve played Rift of like ~1.5/2 years ago. Now that were some actual hard dungeons which you could actually fail. Not like these ‘’no time limit’’ dungeons done in 20mins

can you solo lupicus? duo 48 grawl shaman? solo bloomhunger 80?

if not then I don’t think you have the right to say that PvE is completely lacking in skill requirements

I don’t want to talk about Krait-Witches x.X they are all so kittening kitten on their small platforms or underwater brrrrr >:<
Or the Hydra Really hard worldboss if you ask me. Normally noone there

guanlongwucaii.3162:

BlackDevil.9268:

@mambastik
No, I was amazed you guys are even talking about PvE builds and even more amazed about healing specs in pve.
You guys should’ve played Rift of like ~1.5/2 years ago. Now that were some actual hard dungeons which you could actually fail. Not like these ‘’no time limit’’ dungeons done in 20mins

can you solo lupicus? duo 48 grawl shaman? solo bloomhunger 80?

if not then I don’t think you have the right to say that PvE is completely lacking in skill requirements

How does that make sense?
Basicly what you say;
When a boss for 5 casuals is able to solo, then pve doesnt require skill.
Anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2rsAwnNAak
There, your 1v1 against lupicus. Many more to find on youtube.
or mesmer perspective, even faster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cBxlKtxHD0

Nvm, found one of 5mins solo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExJRVBrgbdo