Another Mesmer Moa Bird Thread
What if I told you mesmers were a utility class?
You’re mind would finally be able to comprehend why we have certain abilities.
Our job is support dps, and to Buff/Debuff and CC.
Moa, while powerfull, is not OP, is not uber leet, and is not used by all mesmers.
The fact is, moa is a powerful elite skill. You should not be able to break out of it, because of the fact it’s an elite skill with a long cooldown, and is personally only used when the other team only has a really good guardian that we need to lock down.
Otherwise, Time Warp is generally more used in PVP, and if you get moa’d and possibly killed, sorry, but too bad. My warrior friend gets angered easily by mesmers but the fact is, he thinks he can just charge in and bash their brains in without any issues because he’s a mighty warrior, and this guy has been playing mmo’s for years.
TL;DR: Mesmers are not op, we provide utility to a group. Most of our abilities have a long CD, so get over it.
Well, what exactly do you mean with “utility”? 4k of totally automated damage with Illusionary Unload?
Every professions are made to cover every roles, that’s what ArenaNet is saying since GW2 reveal. With your mesmer you can play as DPS, Tank and of course support.
The point is that Moa is a free win button.
Just today I was playing with my Necro, I was holding a point against 2-3 people (you can’t know how much they are when there is a mesmer around) waiting for some friendlies. I was holding up quite well and I almost killed the warrior when poof, I became a Moa, my Flesh Golem despawned (no matter what Elite I had, it would be cancelled anyway), I died and the point was lost. Now, is this what you call “balance”? A single skill can make you lose like this? It’s ridiculous, so simple to understand, except if you are a Mesmer, of course.
What if I told you mesmers were a utility class?
You’re mind would finally be able to comprehend why we have certain abilities.
Our job is support dps, and to Buff/Debuff and CC.
Moa, while powerfull, is not OP, is not uber leet, and is not used by all mesmers.
The fact is, moa is a powerful elite skill. You should not be able to break out of it, because of the fact it’s an elite skill with a long cooldown, and is personally only used when the other team only has a really good guardian that we need to lock down.
Otherwise, Time Warp is generally more used in PVP, and if you get moa’d and possibly killed, sorry, but too bad. My warrior friend gets angered easily by mesmers but the fact is, he thinks he can just charge in and bash their brains in without any issues because he’s a mighty warrior, and this guy has been playing mmo’s for years.
TL;DR: Mesmers are not op, we provide utility to a group. Most of our abilities have a long CD, so get over it.
Yeah… it doesn’t matter what “role” you’re supposed to be in, with 1400+ condition damage you wreck everyone trying to jump your nutts, especially when you throw 20 stacks of confusion on them! THEN! then you can laugh madly as they fall to the floor as they attempt to kill you! but of course it’s to no avail! throws head back and cackles
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
It’s ridiculous, so simple to understand, except if you are a Mesmer, of course.
It’s easy to understand if you play multiple classes, like I do. It’s ignorant to assume just because one plays a mesmer, his view is always one sided.
The fact of the matter is that the Moa should restrict the character from all his abilities, except for elite skills or pets that have already been casted or summoned (for pets).
It seems like the moa could be bugged in that it automatically cancels out any attack (such as elite) or pets that are summoned. I know what you’re talking about and I wasn’t sure why it canceled out pets either.
I can concede on the fact that the moa shouldn’t cancel out pets, or other elite abilities, it should only affect the player from casting any abilties or pets while he is constricted to moa form.
Alshazzär
Tarnished Coast [TC]
Tarnished Coast [TC]
Yeah… it doesn’t matter what “role” you’re supposed to be in, with 1400+ condition damage you wreck everyone trying to jump your nutts, especially when you throw 20 stacks of confusion on them! THEN! then you can laugh madly as they fall to the floor as they attempt to kill you! but of course it’s to no avail! throws head back and cackles
You seem as if every situation results in a mesmer winning a fight, which is not true. Mesmer’s main damage is about conditions. Mesmers are also masters of illusions and have many utilities to get out of situations. Sometimes they are used to retreat, and sometimes if the offender doesn’t know what he’s doing, he can be obliterated.
It really comes down to skill and various other factors (health at the time, if your going against a group, etc.).
When I play my mesmer, there are a few people I’m not going to pick a fight with, if it’s risky, I’m not going to risk it, thats being smart. However, there are a few classes 1v1 I know I can obliterate, especially when I get the jump. There are even those that are just good at there class that normally I would obliterate but it usually ends because either one of us makes a wrong move.
I’ve obliterated every class, and I’ve been obliterated by every class.
There is nothing wrong with the mesmer class. Those complaining that the class is too weak don’t know how to utilize the mesmer skill set. Those that complain that is op generally lose to mesmers. And then there are the trolls that claim everything is op and provide no sustenance to the conversation.
Mesmers are pretty balanced. The only thing I can see them changing is making the Moa not cancel out players when they are using their elite ability or canceling their pets that are already out after they’ve been moa’d.
Alshazzär
Tarnished Coast [TC]
Tarnished Coast [TC]
anet can touch moa after they tone down thief burst. not before.
nerf mesmers? prepare for 8v8 all thief action.
What if I told you mesmers were a utility class?
You’re mind would finally be able to comprehend why we have certain abilities.
Our job is support dps, and to Buff/Debuff and CC.
Moa, while powerfull, is not OP, is not uber leet, and is not used by all mesmers.
The fact is, moa is a powerful elite skill. You should not be able to break out of it, because of the fact it’s an elite skill with a long cooldown, and is personally only used when the other team only has a really good guardian that we need to lock down.
Otherwise, Time Warp is generally more used in PVP, and if you get moa’d and possibly killed, sorry, but too bad. My warrior friend gets angered easily by mesmers but the fact is, he thinks he can just charge in and bash their brains in without any issues because he’s a mighty warrior, and this guy has been playing mmo’s for years.
TL;DR: Mesmers are not op, we provide utility to a group. Most of our abilities have a long CD, so get over it.
Yeah… it doesn’t matter what “role” you’re supposed to be in, with 1400+ condition damage you wreck everyone trying to jump your nutts, especially when you throw 20 stacks of confusion on them! THEN! then you can laugh madly as they fall to the floor as they attempt to kill you! but of course it’s to no avail! throws head back and cackles
oh wow
how can i get reliably and consistently 20 stacks of confusion on someone by myself with no outside help every fight i ever have in pvp?
would love to know how.
What if I told you mesmers were a utility class?
You’re mind would finally be able to comprehend why we have certain abilities.
Our job is support dps, and to Buff/Debuff and CC.
Moa, while powerfull, is not OP, is not uber leet, and is not used by all mesmers.
The fact is, moa is a powerful elite skill. You should not be able to break out of it, because of the fact it’s an elite skill with a long cooldown, and is personally only used when the other team only has a really good guardian that we need to lock down.
Otherwise, Time Warp is generally more used in PVP, and if you get moa’d and possibly killed, sorry, but too bad. My warrior friend gets angered easily by mesmers but the fact is, he thinks he can just charge in and bash their brains in without any issues because he’s a mighty warrior, and this guy has been playing mmo’s for years.
TL;DR: Mesmers are not op, we provide utility to a group. Most of our abilities have a long CD, so get over it.
Yeah… it doesn’t matter what “role” you’re supposed to be in, with 1400+ condition damage you wreck everyone trying to jump your nutts, especially when you throw 20 stacks of confusion on them! THEN! then you can laugh madly as they fall to the floor as they attempt to kill you! but of course it’s to no avail! throws head back and cackles
oh wow
how can i get reliably and consistently 20 stacks of confusion on someone by myself with no outside help every fight i ever have in pvp?
would love to know how.
This is the problem with all reasonable discussion about balance. There is always at least one person who makes a random comment of the worst case possible scenario which almost never happens and then ends it with a lol /troll.
I try to mostly ignore and move on.
Alshazzär
Tarnished Coast [TC]
Tarnished Coast [TC]
Mesmers are balanced just fine. Not once playing as a Mesmer have I felt that I got a “free win” and not once playing as any other class have I felt the Mesmer got a “free win.” There are plenty of instances where I have completely rolled over a mesmer w/ moa morph as if he wasn’t even there, and plenty of times I have been squished by other classes while playing as a mesmer.
I have been hit with moa morph more than enough to know its not broken. If you feel the mesmer got a free win just because he disabled your skills for 10 seconds, you were probably gonna lose regardless. The fact is if you are playing well most of your skills should be recharging anyway (many of which have longer recharges than 10 seconds). Moa is a powerful ability, but it doesn’t stop you from kiting/running away. I can name plenty of elites on all the classes that are just as powerful. As with everything, its how the player uses it, and how the other player reacts that determines how powerful it is.
Mesmer are more powerful in 1v1 combat, but on the flip side, they are much weaker than other classes in big group battle situations where illusions die at the drop of a penny, often making large portions of a mesmer’s build unusable.
Mesmers are balanced just fine. Not once playing as a Mesmer have I felt that I got a “free win” and not once playing as any other class have I felt the Mesmer got a “free win.” There are plenty of instances where I have completely rolled over a mesmer w/ moa morph as if he wasn’t even there, and plenty of times I have been squished by other classes while playing as a mesmer.
I have been hit with moa morph more than enough to know its not broken. If you feel the mesmer got a free win just because he disabled your skills for 10 seconds, you were probably gonna lose regardless. The fact is if you are playing well most of your skills should be recharging anyway (many of which have longer recharges than 10 seconds). Moa is a powerful ability, but it doesn’t stop you from kiting/running away. I can name plenty of elites on all the classes that are just as powerful. As with everything, its how the player uses it, and how the other player reacts that determines how powerful it is.
Mesmer are more powerful in 1v1 combat, but on the flip side, they are much weaker than other classes in big group battle situations where illusions die at the drop of a penny, often making large portions of a mesmer’s build unusable.
You can’t justify the Moa saying “you can kite/run”, Moa is a 10 seconds Daze, just think about this.
I’ll be really pleased if you list just ONE Elite which is as powerful and game breaking as Moa is.
Moa isn’t weak at group battle, please, don’t say that. If you are in Group Situation, you can either use Moa which increases the number advantage of your team for 10 seconds or you use Time Warp, which is another stupidly overpowered skill (10 seconds quickness in an area? Seriously?). Mesmer also has bunch of AoE debuff and damage like Null Field, Mind Wrack, Cry of Frustration, Illusionary Wave, Chaos Storm, Temporal Curtain, all the Glamour Skills and so on. I’ll trade all Corruption skills (as a Necro) for just an equivalent skill of Null Field.
It’s ridiculous, so simple to understand, except if you are a Mesmer, of course.
It’s easy to understand if you play multiple classes, like I do. It’s ignorant to assume just because one plays a mesmer, his view is always one sided.
The fact of the matter is that the Moa should restrict the character from all his abilities, except for elite skills or pets that have already been casted or summoned (for pets).
It seems like the moa could be bugged in that it automatically cancels out any attack (such as elite) or pets that are summoned. I know what you’re talking about and I wasn’t sure why it canceled out pets either.
I can concede on the fact that the moa shouldn’t cancel out pets, or other elite abilities, it should only affect the player from casting any abilties or pets while he is constricted to moa form.
With “If you are a Mesmer” I was pointing at people who have a Mesmer character as main and probably have played so few match with other professions to be considered irrelevant.
It doesn’t matters if the Moa didn’t cancel transformations and pets, that is just a plus to Moa’s opness. Moa is, infact, a 10 seconds Daze, which is out of every balance. Do you consider a 10 seconds Daze skill well balanced? I think no.
…. Your opinions speak to your ignorance. A good build for a Guardian can keep a person flat on their back for just as long as Moa “dazes” them, and doesn’t even need an elite (or the CD time that comes with it) to do so. And that’s just one example of many.
(edited by Jungle Quack.1368)
It doesn’t matters if the Moa didn’t cancel transformations and pets, that is just a plus to Moa’s opness. Moa is, infact, a 10 seconds Daze, which is out of every balance. Do you consider a 10 seconds Daze skill well balanced? I think no.
If I ask you for why a 10s Daze is overpowered, you’ll grasp for straws.
So, here goes:
Why do you consider it unbalanced?
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
I would be fine with moa if it Also made the Moa immune to damage and CC’s.
Sort of a Soft CC, I take you out of the fight for 10 secs.
…. Your opinions speak to your ignorance. A good build for a Guardian can keep a person flat on their back for just as long as Moa “dazes” them, and doesn’t even need an elite (or the CD time that comes with it) to do so. And that’s just one example of many.
Guess why people are also complaining about Guardians? Saying that there is another OP profession isn’t a valid argument. Also, Guardians need to use utility/weapon skills to do the job Moa does in just 1 skill. Bar compression is another cool feature that makes Moa OP.
If I ask you for why a 10s Daze is overpowered, you’ll grasp for straws.
So, here goes:
Why do you consider it unbalanced?
Do you want to know why 10s Daze is OP? Because none can archieve this in one skill. Daze is a incredibly powerful condition, that’s because most the times it only lasts 2 seconds.
Moa is equivalent to a 10 seconds of daze, which is unarchievable by any other profession also focusing all build in it, plus it wipes all pets, cancel all transformations and makes some build totally useless all this in one single skill. This skill makes a real difference in a fight when used and can turns a lost fight in a win, no other skill do that.
You are losing an 1vs1 fight? What’s the problem? Decoy+Moa and you won. Tell me which skill has the same “I win” effect.
Enemy point holder is too tough to kill? No problem. (Decoy) Moa and you get that point. Tell me which skill has the same “I win” effect.
You are in difficulties in a 2vs2 fight? Turn it in a 2vs1 with your Moa Morph! Tell me which skill reverse the situation like Moa does.
The enemy outnumbers you in a 2vs3 fight? Make the match fair for 10 seconds (more than enough to put someone down) with your Moa Morph! Tell me which skill reverse the situation like Moa does.
Your enemy became a big green Lich, a smelly plague cloud or he has too many pets summoned in your opinion? No problem. Moa Morph and the problem is solved.
This skill is too strong compared to all Elites and also all skills in the game, that’s because it is overpowered.
Well, it cancels out Transformations and Summons, but considering the second part that is probably a bug or unwanted side effect of the transform. It makes no sense it’d cancel summons, since other such disabling effects don’t.
Considering it as a pure Daze for a moment, yes, a 10s Daze is powerful. But I don’t see it as ground breaking powerful comparing it’s power in sPvP compared to say, Time Warp or Supply Drop or Book of healing ALL the things in WvW.
Not saying that it isn’t too strong (or others too weak, since we don’t know whether devs want Elites to have as large a game changing effect as the most powerful elites currently do, or whether they want them to be as weak as Golem Suit, Basilisk Venom or Become The Raven), or weak, or whatever, but it’s hardly the only completely game-changing elite. Sure, maybe it’s the strongest in sPvP (I honestly couldn’t actually care any less about that game mode, unless maybe they make it cost money per match… looks at tournament tickets… nevermind), but others are extremely strong in WvW. I fail to see what singles Moa out.
That it cancels other effects, that is ofc something which needs changing, but as said above it sounds more like a bug or technical limitation than an intended effect.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
I tried Moa in PvE and it barely changed anything, the fight was still as tough. Then I figured I should try it against players so I tried it in WvW and the enemy team still won!
So I tried it in a dungeon it wasn’t even slightly effective.
.. wait, do we only want balance based off of one game mode? Oh ok.
:p
Wait, so moa is op? When did this happen?
I regularly bait mesmers into using this on my thief, i LoS for 10 secs and work out which is the real mesmer and summon my Thieves Guild elite and focus the real one using the shortbow and let my elite kill the mesmer while the #1 skill on the shortbow takes all the illusions out of the equation ensuring my elite focuses the mesmer.
Speaking as a thief, Moa is not op, if you get killed in it, its because you got rooted in place while another class burst you down. Anyone running moa with a confusion build would be counterproductive.
Well, it cancels out Transformations and Summons, but considering the second part that is probably a bug or unwanted side effect of the transform. It makes no sense it’d cancel summons, since other such disabling effects don’t.
Considering it as a pure Daze for a moment, yes, a 10s Daze is powerful. But I don’t see it as ground breaking powerful comparing it’s power in sPvP compared to say, Time Warp or Supply Drop or Book of healing ALL the things in WvW.
Not saying that it isn’t too strong (or others too weak, since we don’t know whether devs want Elites to have as large a game changing effect as the most powerful elites currently do, or whether they want them to be as weak as Golem Suit, Basilisk Venom or Become The Raven), or weak, or whatever, but it’s hardly the only completely game-changing elite. Sure, maybe it’s the strongest in sPvP (I honestly couldn’t actually care any less about that game mode, unless maybe they make it cost money per match… looks at tournament tickets… nevermind), but others are extremely strong in WvW. I fail to see what singles Moa out.
That it cancels other effects, that is ofc something which needs changing, but as said above it sounds more like a bug or technical limitation than an intended effect.
Moa wipes out all your skills, that’s because it cancel at the summons.
You won’t anyway use Moa in WvWvW, neither in PvE. The only application for that skill si sPvP and it is way overpowered in that game mode, that’s because you guys think that Moa is ok. sPvP is a gamemode, also very important because some people only play that mode, if you don’t like it, it doesn’t mean that Moa isn’t unbalanced (tournaments ticket actually spawns in PvP chest, I’ve 30 of them without paying one cent). Also the profession opness is way more visible when you are in sPvP, because in WvWvW and PvE there is too much chaos to actually realize what killed you and what skill was the first contributor.
It’s an elite skill.
I guess you guys haven’t played other games where the control class (wow mesmer actually has A CONTROL skill, what a surprise, they should have a lot more control, but they got one decent one that takes forever to activate) has very similar skills (rift has moa morph I think it was called and did the exact same thing).
I must’ve missed the sign that said it was a fire sale.
You say a “good” Mesmer can land the MOA spell….A good player in general can dodge the MOA skill, I’ve seen countless people do so in Tourneys, & SPvP. It’s a largely useful skill, but, it is by no means “OP”.
It’s an elite skill.
I guess you guys haven’t played other games where the control class (wow mesmer actually has A CONTROL skill, what a surprise, they should have a lot more control, but they got one decent one that takes forever to activate) has very similar skills (rift has moa morph I think it was called and did the exact same thing).
This is not Rift.
This game was made by the same guys who made Guild Wars, did you know?
There was control also in Guild Wars, but do you want to see some control skill of Guild Wars?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shroud_of_Silence
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blackout
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Migraine_
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Power_Block
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Psychic_Distraction
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Visions_of_Regret_
Most of them works on recharge and energy, but consider that most the professions have at least 20 energy and regenerates 4 energy every 3 seconds. Players had about 500 hp.
When do you see a skill that is the same as Moa kitten? Do you see something that is as game breaking as Moa?
One thing is control, another thing is opness.
These skills were widely used in PvP by Mesmers (except one that is a sin’s skill) and, in fact, playing mesmer required some skills at that time to be played effective and make a difference.
I play a Mesmer and I’m having a hard time believing people are actually defending Moa Morph.
It’s an elite skill.
I guess you guys haven’t played other games where the control class (wow mesmer actually has A CONTROL skill, what a surprise, they should have a lot more control, but they got one decent one that takes forever to activate) has very similar skills (rift has moa morph I think it was called and did the exact same thing).
This is not Rift.
This game was made by the same guys who made Guild Wars, did you know?
There was control also in Guild Wars, but do you want to see some control skill of Guild Wars?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shroud_of_Silence
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blackout
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Migraine_
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Power_Block
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Psychic_Distraction
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Visions_of_Regret_Most of them works on recharge and energy, but consider that most the professions have at least 20 energy and regenerates 4 energy every 3 seconds. Players had about 500 hp.
When do you see a skill that is the same as Moa kitten? Do you see something that is as game breaking as Moa?
One thing is control, another thing is opness.
These skills were widely used in PvP by Mesmers (except one that is a sin’s skill) and, in fact, playing mesmer required some skills at that time to be played effective and make a difference.
You can cure these.
Moa is un-cureable.
After being hit, there is very little you can do to improve your situation other than to use up your endurance dodging attacks, and attempt to run away.
Guess why people are also complaining about Guardians? Saying that there is another OP profession isn’t a valid argument. Also, Guardians need to use utility/weapon skills to do the job Moa does in just 1 skill. Bar compression is another cool feature that makes Moa OP.
So your argument it that if someone complains about it, it MUST be OP. Wow, according to these forums that would make every single profession OP. Chances are that these professions are all pretty well balanced, and the people who are complaining are just bad players.
As I have said before, I have played plenty of PvP with other classes, and never ONCE had Moa drastically change the outcome of a fight. The times I have been hit by it once I see the mesmer casting is around 10-15% of the time. Which means the only times I really worry about it is when a mesmer gets the drop me, which in reality is not much different from any class getting the drop on me. They are ALL capable of dealing considerable damage before I can react.
You can cure these.
Moa is un-cureable.
After being hit, there is very little you can do to improve your situation other than to use up your endurance dodging attacks, and attempt to run away.
If you bothered to actually look at the skills listed, most of those can’t be cured, and the other two are parts of some pretty hefty hex builds, which being on the receiving end is enough to shut you down permanently, not just for 10 measly seconds.
(edited by Jungle Quack.1368)
Guess why people are also complaining about Guardians? Saying that there is another OP profession isn’t a valid argument. Also, Guardians need to use utility/weapon skills to do the job Moa does in just 1 skill. Bar compression is another cool feature that makes Moa OP.
So your argument it that if someone complains about it, it MUST be OP. Wow, according to these forums that would make every single profession OP. Chances are that these professions are all pretty well balanced, and the people who are complaining are just bad players.
Seriously? Explain me why the complains about Mesmer/Thief/Guardians are way more than the other professions. No one complains about Ranger (except Shortbow bleed spamming build), no one complains about Elementalist, no one complains about Necromancers, very few people complains about Engineer. There should be a reason behind this.
As I have said before, I have played plenty of PvP with other classes, and never ONCE had Moa drastically change the outcome of a fight. The times I have been hit by it once I see the mesmer casting is around 10-15% of the time. Which means the only times I really worry about it is when a mesmer gets the drop me, which in reality is not much different from any class getting the drop on me. They are ALL capable of dealing considerable damage before I can react.
You can cure these.
Moa is un-cureable.
After being hit, there is very little you can do to improve your situation other than to use up your endurance dodging attacks, and attempt to run away.
If you bothered to actually look at the skills listed, most of those can’t be cured, and the other two are parts of some pretty hefty hex builds, which being on the receiving end is enough to shut you down permanently, not just for 10 measly seconds.
Just 2 of them can’t be cured (Blackout and Shroud of Silence), which are similiar to Moa, but they are touch skills (close range), Blackout disables all your skills for 5 seconds (for 5-6 seconds of disable on enemy) and Shoud of Silence only lasts 3 seconds max.
Hex I’ve listed are all curable by a monk and, also, they doesn’t block yours attack at all, but they just deal some damage if you attack (what mesmers actually do with confusion). The other ones that can’t be cured are just influencing the recharge of 1 skill and are interrupts, so the caster actually requires timing and skill to get one skill on recharging for +20 seconds about. What is the skill required to cast a Moa? Everyone can do this.
QQ!
“Man necros and elementalist are sooo OP,
all those summons, and all that burst dmg and conditions OMG!!
Pls ANET nerf Necros and Elementalists, they’r too OP because they always beat me, so they MUST be nerfed, pleaseeeeee!! QQ"
What is the skill required to cast a Moa? Everyone can do this.
You know what else everyone can do?
complain, complain, make threads and complain some more
instead of actually playing and finding a way to counter the stuff they complain about!
What is the skill required to cast a Moa? Everyone can do this.
You know what else everyone can do?
complain, complain, make threads and complain some more
instead of actually playing and finding a way to counter the stuff they complain about!
I’ve failed to find a way to effectively counter Moa.
Can you please be so kind to explain me how to counter that skill?
I mean, if a Mesmer uses Decoy and then he casts Moa while in Decoy, what is an effective way to counter it? Please, I really need to know that.
Every single prof has skills that kd, launch, daze or otherwise interrupt. Failing that everyone has the ability to double tap a movement key for a dodge.
If you can’t figure out how to utilize these skill properly, the failure is on you.
Every single prof has skills that kd, launch, daze or otherwise interrupt. Failing that everyone has the ability to double tap a movement key for a dodge.
If you can’t figure out how to utilize these skill properly, the failure is on you.
This is an answer to what? Moa counter? If so, exactly, how can I know when to use my dodge, daze, kd, launch, stun or interrupt when the caster is stealthed? Try the luck? Spam my dazes in the air? Oh, and don’t forget that you can’t even realize that the Mesmer is actually stealthed, because there are surely a bunch of his copies around!
Moa is the only skill that counters everything and can’t be countered.
The purpose of Moa should be to disable a player for 10 seconds, not disable a player for 10 seconds with a high chance to burst him down while he’s defenseless without the ability to use break stuns when stunned as a Moa. Players should be immune to damage as a Moa, this change alone would make the skill worth its purpose.
Necromancer Lupicus Solo – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWkSkhmWiDU
Retired Until Expansion or Meaningful Content is Released.
Retired Until Expansion or Meaningful Content is Released.
Back in the ye olde days of guild wars 1…if you couldn’t interrupt a skill with a 1 second cast time…you couldn’t interrupt.
Worse comes to worse you could always block it. Just like most other projectiles.
This is an answer to what? Moa counter? If so, exactly, how can I know when to use my dodge, daze, kd, launch, stun or interrupt when the caster is stealthed? Try the luck? Spam my dazes in the air? Oh, and don’t forget that you can’t even realize that the Mesmer is actually stealthed, because there are surely a bunch of his copies around!
Ctrl + T
Maybe you should actually learn some of the basic aspects of the game before you complain how you cant deal with one skill.
And just so you understand what an OP skill is, the slyvari racial skill Grasping Vines during BWE3 was originally an AoE spell that both immobilized and did DoT for an extended period, with a very short CD. Disabling one person for 10 seconds with an Elite skill w/ 180 second CD that can be dodged, blocked or interrupted with little effort is not by any means OP.
This is an answer to what? Moa counter? If so, exactly, how can I know when to use my dodge, daze, kd, launch, stun or interrupt when the caster is stealthed? Try the luck? Spam my dazes in the air? Oh, and don’t forget that you can’t even realize that the Mesmer is actually stealthed, because there are surely a bunch of his copies around!
Ctrl + T
Maybe you should actually learn some of the basic aspects of the game before you complain how you cant deal with one skill.
And just so you understand what an OP skill is, the slyvari racial skill Grasping Vines during BWE3 was originally an AoE spell that both immobilized and did DoT for an extended period, with a very short CD. Disabling one person for 10 seconds with an Elite skill w/ 180 second CD that can be dodged, blocked or interrupted with little effort is not by any means OP.
Uh, what?
YOU should learn some basics before saying bs. Did you know that you lose target when the targeted player stealths? Guess what Decoy does!
Oh, wait, so a skill that allows you to use utilities, skills, stunbreakers, invulnerabilities, heals and can be easily countered by destroying the vines in about 2-3 seconds and of course can’t be used in sPvP is OP? Have you a clue of what overpowered means?
(edited by sorrow.2364)
One thing I’ve noticed in WvW: 90% of the people approach a 1v1 against a mesmer in a very careless way…of course they end up defeated…and then QQ. They wouldn’t know the first thing about a mesmer, which is the initiation range, but they focus their rage on moa because it adds insult to injury.
I admit I’ve moa’d sure kills just for the humiliation effect; but in a wargame of respawning immortals demoralization is a key to victory.
I play a Mesmer and I’m having a hard time believing people are actually defending Moa Morph.
It’s a matter of principle. Don’t you ever get fed up with the constant stream of bad players coming to our forum, telling you that you need to be nerfed. When you’re running about Orr, struggling to get tags on kills, performing 10-20 attack chains with wrist-damage inducing speed that warriors can destroy simply by rolling their face across the keyboard. just because some guy in an sPvP matched bruised a guy’s ego by turning him into a chicken?
And let’s not forget the vast majority of people who try mesmer, give up because it’s probably the singularly hardest class to play, and for that reason is also one of the least played classes?
It’s not the class that’s OP. it’s the players… if a warrior can play by rolling his face, and a thief can play by learning one combo that insta-kills then naturally those classes also attract the really bad players. Conversely a class like mesmer with such a cliff-like learning curve tends to attract very few, resulting in this impression that mesmers are OP because the very fact you’re looking at a high level mesmer (especially in WvW or PvE), immediatly precludes the possibility they’re a BAD player. Bad mesmers don’t usually get much beyond lvl 30
The Ashwalker – Ranger
Garnished Toast
Garnished Toast
(edited by Ryuujin.8236)
I play a Mesmer and I’m having a hard time believing people are actually defending Moa Morph.
It’s a matter of principle. Don’t you ever get fed up with the constant stream of bad players coming to our forum, telling you that you need to be nerfed. When you’re running about Orr, struggling to get tags on kills, performing 10-20 attack chains with wrist-damage inducing speed that warriors can destroy simply by rolling their face across the keyboard. just because some guy in an sPvP matched bruised a guy’s ego by turning him into a chicken?
And let’s not forget the vast majority of people who try mesmer, give up because it’s probably the singularly hardest class to play, and for that reason is also one of the least played classes?
It’s not the class that’s OP. it’s the players… if a warrior can play by rolling his face, and a thief can play by learning one combo that insta-kills then naturally those classes also attract the really bad players. Conversely a class like mesmer with such a cliff-like learning curve tends to attract very few, resulting in this impression that mesmers are OP because the very fact you’re looking at a high level mesmer (especially in WvW or PvE), immediatly precludes the possibility they’re a BAD player. Bad mesmers don’t usually get much beyond lvl 30
You are talking about PvE and WvWvW, this topic isn’t for you. We are talking about sPvP and in particular about Moa Morph. Did you read the op before posting this? If you did, how can you didn’t realize that this topic is about sPvP? I don’t care if mersmers in WvWvW or PvE are few, in sPvP they are almost 40% of the player base. Also, Moa Morph is a skill that has its only application in sPvP/tPvP, none is going to use it in WvWvW or PvE and in sPvP/tPvp is incredibly unbalanced.
Also that Mesmers are hard to play it’s your opinion. Have you tried Necromancers or Elementalists? Looks like you didn’t.
You are talking about PvE and WvWvW, this topic isn’t for you. We are talking about sPvP and in particular about Moa Morph.
This is the Mesmer forum, not the spvp forum. If you have a problem with that, feel free to stick to the spvp forum and not post here.
You are talking about PvE and WvWvW, this topic isn’t for you. We are talking about sPvP and in particular about Moa Morph.
This is the Mesmer forum, not the spvp forum. If you have a problem with that, feel free to stick to the spvp forum and not post here.
In fact this topic is about Mesmers, not sPvP in general.
We are talking about Moa Morph (which is a Mesmer skill!) when used in sPvP, which is the only game mode when this skill is going to be used.
If we are saying that Moa Morph is OP in sPvP, it is plain stupid to say “hey, in WvWvW and PvE that skill is useless, so it isn’t op!”. What we are saying is that Moa Morph needs to be wiped out and replaced with another skill or it needs an huge nerf.
What we are saying is that Moa Morph needs to be wiped out and replaced with another skill or it needs an huge nerf.
So if a skill is proving too strong in sPvP, we should also nerf it in WvW, tournement play, PvE and single player instances… and people who play those other 4 game modes (Which make up the vast majority of the players), should kindly sit down and shut up while players who don’t even play mesmer, dictate their future?
The Ashwalker – Ranger
Garnished Toast
Garnished Toast
You are talking about PvE and WvWvW, this topic isn’t for you. We are talking about sPvP and in particular about Moa Morph.
This is the Mesmer forum, not the spvp forum. If you have a problem with that, feel free to stick to the spvp forum and not post here.
In fact this topic is about Mesmers, not sPvP in general.
We are talking about Moa Morph (which is a Mesmer skill!) when used in sPvP, which is the only game mode when this skill is going to be used.
The fact you fail to grasp is this is the mesmer public forum, and when people feel they have something to add to a mesmer discussion, they can do so, and you have to respect their right instead of lashing out in verbal attacks.
Again, if you want to lock a discussion to spvp only, there’s a forum for that, it has plenty of thief-only or whatever-only threads already.
What we are saying is that Moa Morph needs to be wiped out and replaced with another skill or it needs an huge nerf.
So if a skill is proving too strong in sPvP, we should also nerf it in WvW, tournement play, PvE and single player instances… and people who play those other 4 game modes (Which make up the vast majority of the players), should kindly sit down and shut up while players who don’t even play mesmer, dictate their future?
With sPvP I mean also tPvP.
Are you sure that I don’t play mesmer?
Are you using Moa Morph in WvW or PvE? Will you care if you won’t have Moa Morph in PvE or WvW anymore?
The only game mode in which Moa Morph can be used is in sPvP (tPvP) and it is extremely powerful in that mode. That’s what the op is trying to say, that skill should never be existed. Is that too hard to understand?
The fact you fail to grasp is this is the mesmer public forum, and when people feel they have something to add to a mesmer discussion, they can do so, and you have to respect their right instead of lashing out in verbal attacks.
Again, if you want to lock a discussion to spvp only, there’s a forum for that, it has plenty of thief-only or whatever-only threads already.
So in a Mesmer specific forum I can’t argue about a Mesmer specific skill’s application because of what?
If this topic is in the wrong section, than it would be moved to the right section by a moderator and, since the topic is still here, it is in the right section.
What I’m trying to say is that stating that Moa Morph isn’t that strong in WvWvW and PvE, but it is ground breaking in sPvP, isn’t a valid argument and it doesn’t belong to this topic.
(edited by sorrow.2364)
That’s what the op is trying to say, that skill should never be existed. Is that too hard to understand?
In Allods online people used to tell me some of the psion skills were too powerful and I shouldn’t use them in a duel. My response was always “I won’t use my illusions if you don’t use a sword”.
If a skill bothers you so much then submit a suggestion to anet through the appropriate channels. just don’t come to the forum of the class you’re kittening about and expect us to be happy with it.
The Ashwalker – Ranger
Garnished Toast
Garnished Toast
In Allods online people used to tell me some of the psion skills were too powerful and I shouldn’t use them in a duel. My response was always “I won’t use my illusions if you don’t use a sword”.
If a skill bothers you so much then submit a suggestion to anet through the appropriate channels. just don’t come to the forum of the class you’re kittening about and expect us to be happy with it.
Oh god. This isn’t the Mesmer’s cave. This is a forum section regarding mesmers, where game designers read topics and obtain feedback. This is the right channel to talk about a profession and their skills. If you don’t feel happy with this discussion, don’t read it, don’t answer it and go in an unofficial mesmer forum to be happy with your mesmer friends.
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The fact you fail to grasp is this is the mesmer public forum, and when people feel they have something to add to a mesmer discussion, they can do so, and you have to respect their right instead of lashing out in verbal attacks.
Again, if you want to lock a discussion to spvp only, there’s a forum for that, it has plenty of thief-only or whatever-only threads already.
So in a Mesmer specific forum I can’t argue about a Mesmer specific skill’s application because of what?
If this topic is in the wrong section, than it would be moved to the right section by a moderator and, since the topic is still here, it is in the right section.What I’m trying to say is that stating that Moa Morph isn’t that strong in WvWvW and PvE, but it is ground breaking in sPvP, isn’t a valid argument and it doesn’t belong to this topic.
You are welcomed to argue, but you don’t get to silence people by lashing out about “spvp”. As I said, if you want a thread locked to spvp discussion, there’s a forum for that.
And since you are still here, you might as well learn something. In WvW, you are free to change weapons, utilities, and elites when out of combat, and that’s plenty. In the off-peak hours, which are just as important to scoring as the primetime, it’s a standard scenario to notice an opponent with plenty of time to change skills before the 1v1. In these hours when small gank pvp decides the color of the map in the morning, possibly wiping all the hardworking upgrades of the primetime, the Moa is a powerful skill.
But as powerful as it is, it has only mattered in a tiny % of the small gank engagements. The vast majority of the engagements I win because people wouldn’t have the first idea how to fight a mesmer.
I’ve never seen nerf QQ for the #1 reason I win 1v1s, but I once saw a “this is too weak” QQ. The Moa won’t cut into the top 10 reasons I win, and that’s before calculating in its high alternative cost.
Now, maybe everyone in spvp has mad skillz and Moa is your only weakness of your otherwise flawless gameplay of burst/block/reflect/dodge, but I doubt it. The Moa is a convenient scapegoat because it is demeaning, but a scapegoat nonetheless.
You are welcomed to argue, but you don’t get to silence people by lashing out about “spvp”. As I said, if you want a thread locked to spvp discussion, there’s a forum for that.
And since you are still here, you might as well learn something. In WvW, you are free to change weapons, utilities, and elites when out of combat, and that’s plenty. In the off-peak hours, which are just as important to scoring as the primetime, it’s a standard scenario to notice an opponent with plenty of time to change skills before the 1v1. In these hours when small gank pvp decides the color of the map in the morning, possibly wiping all the hardworking upgrades of the primetime, the Moa is a powerful skill.
But as powerful as it is, it has only mattered in a tiny % of the small gank engagements. The vast majority of the engagements I win because people wouldn’t have the first idea how to fight a mesmer.
I’ve never seen nerf QQ for the #1 reason I win 1v1s, but I once saw a “this is too weak” QQ. The Moa won’t cut into the top 10 reasons I win, and that’s before calculating in its high alternative cost.
Now, maybe everyone in spvp has mad skillz and Moa is your only weakness of your otherwise flawless gameplay of burst/block/reflect/dodge, but I doubt it. The Moa is a convenient scapegoat because it is demeaning, but a scapegoat nonetheless.
I said before that he made a consideration that was out of topic.
I’m not answering your statements because you are missing the meaning of the word overpowered as many people do here, so it will be a loss of time. You are arguing about something that isn’t in the topic.
You have to compare Moa effectiveness in the whole contest of every skills’ effectiveness, not to the reasons that make you win fights.
(edited by sorrow.2364)
Yeah, but who judges the “effectiveness in the whole contest of every skills’ effectiveness”?
Anet devs? They did their best. They’ll continue to.
Popular QQs on the forums? If the average forum QQ has the skills of the average WvW QQ, I sincerely hope they never get to decide anything concerning the combat system.
Me? Even if I knew everything about the mesmer, and I don’t, I won’t bother leveling all the classes to 80 and equiping them in orange for a balanced WvW comparison.
The only people who might have the right context, and not yet, are the top spvp teams in the world. So when those get proven and have the time to consider countering the seemingly overpowered in the system as is, only then there will be a well judged “effectiveness in the whole contest of every skills’ effectiveness”.
@Sorrow: Oh and to answer your earlier question about “how do i know you don’t play a mesmer” – you forget your posting logs are right there.
You are a self professed necro main, with a soft spot for thief and guardian kittencently started playing some mesmer. Even outside of the mesmer forum you seem to spend a lot of time complaining about them being imbalanced.
The Ashwalker – Ranger
Garnished Toast
Garnished Toast
Yeah, but who judges the “effectiveness in the whole contest of every skills’ effectiveness”?
Anet devs? They did their best. They’ll continue to.
Popular QQs on the forums? If the average forum QQ has the skills of the average WvW QQ, I sincerely hope they never get to decide anything concerning the combat system.
Me? Even if I knew everything about the mesmer, and I don’t, I won’t bother leveling all the classes to 80 and equiping them in orange for a balanced WvW comparison.
The only people who might have the right context, and not yet, are the top spvp teams in the world. So when those get proven and have the time to consider countering the seemingly overpowered in the system as is, only then there will be a well judged “effectiveness in the whole contest of every skills’ effectiveness”.
The “effectiveness in the whole contest of every skills’ effectiveness” can be judged by just trying every professions. ArenaNet game designers need community feedback because they are just few people and their point of view is less objective compared to the point of view of a whole community.
No, you are making an assumption. Most of people who complains about game balancing are experienced PvPers. Of course there are some that are just unskilled and join the QQ without knowing what they are talking about, but they are few and I don’t feel to belong to that group.
Guess what? There is sPvP/tPvP to judge game balancing! In WvWvW you can’t realize the balancing situation because there are many factors that spoil objective considerations, like equipment differences, mass fights, untraited players and so on.
None is judging game balancing in WvWvW because it is impossible to do so.
Having a counter doesn’t mean that the skill isn’t overpowered. Also I think that also the best PvP team has less importance that the whole community complaining about some professions except, obviously, people who are playing these profession as main. You are assuming that everyone who is complaining is a bad player and this is highly arrogant from you, considering also that you haven’t checked in which situation other professions are.
@Sorrow: Oh and to answer your earlier question about “how do i know you don’t play a mesmer” – you forget your posting logs are right there.
You are a self professed necro main, with a soft spot for thief and guardian kittencently started playing some mesmer. Even outside of the mesmer forum you seem to spend a lot of time complaining about them being imbalanced.
Nice one, but you didn’t consider that I said that I started playing mesmer days ago.
Take a look at Necro forum. There are a lot of topics of players that complains about that every thing a Necro do, there is another profession that do it better. You just searched my post and made assumptions about me, without even knowing what is behind what I do.
I’ve played Guild Wars a lot, I’ve learned that ArenaNet have fantastic game designers based on the great job they made balancing Guild Wars, so I started playing Guild Wars 2 assuming the balancing was fine like it was in Guild Wars. I started playing the Necromancer since the headstart and keep playing it getting better and better, at the start it was quite hard to playing effective. Than I take a look at the forum and I saw all the complains about unbalancing of Guardian, Thief and Mesmer. Before saying only a word, I’ve rerolled to these profession and deeply tried them out. I’ve performed way better than I did with my Necromancer I’ve always played without even needing to practice them, then I’ve realized that the complains were founded. So there was two things to do; dump my Necro and reroll to one of these professions as main exploiting game unbalancing or join the chours of complains trying to make this game better. I’ve chosen the second one. Most people have chosen the first one and it is proved by how many Thieves, Guardians and Mesmers are around in sPvP compared to other professions, but there are also some of them that play as a T/G/M to be competitive, but also complains about the objective opness they are affected.
Now you are making considerations about the overall game balancing… my question is: have you tried other professions before saying that yours is not overpowered compared to them?
(edited by sorrow.2364)
Apparently most Mesmers don’t like Moa as much as Time Warp so they slot TW instead, and I’m willing to bet most non-Mesmers dislike losing their class abilities for 10 seconds (I know I sure do), not to mention the aforementioned bugs with minions and forms.
So where exactly is the problem then in reworking this broken skill? At worst, the skill gets gutted and you … continue to use Time Warp. At best? It gets turned into something you might actually slot. Everybody wins!
For the record, I don’t think it’s as much OP as it is just plain aggravating. I didn’t pick ‘Moa’ at character creation.
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