Guild Wars 2

apharma.3741:

DHawk, if we give blinding powder a cast time too then feel free to give decoy a cast time.

As for the rest of it, no, change the torch trait first, then we can make an accurate analysis of PU, currently the pledge is simply too strong with PU and borderline useless without it. The majority of the QQ we get is from mesmers with high stealth uptime, that trait is the cause.

The prestige is similar to C&D however C&D has only initiative cost and no actual cool down, for that it pays with a 1/2s cast.

SR is about equal to MI, MI has a very long and obvious channel you can interrupt, SR has the circle to bombard. Though it is worth pointing out the -25% damage in stealth thieves get.

All things being said, fix the pledge to not be stealth camping orientated and promote active combat (not burst) and I would say thieves and mesmers are about equal for stealth with thieves having more on demand stealth.

besides that you NEED to hit CnD to be able to gain stealth, CnD has a cast time and high ini cost
meaning, it’s very easy to dodge, stun, evade, simply take a step back
thief lost almost half his ini, isn’t in stealth and needs to reattempt to cnd

mesmer hits torch 4
give it 1/2 or 3/4 second cast time

plus, yes MI has a cast time, but so what, you are mobile while channeling AND if you already are in stealth the cast time won’t mean anything
SR is worse compared to MI, you have to stay in a big KILL ME I’M HERE circle, as soon as you walk out before every tick is done, you loose stealth and even are revealed
and since knockbacks, pulls, etc are all over the place using SR infight is a death wish

on demand stealth, that’s true, BUT let’s see here, the 2 insta cast stealthes are blinding powder, and stealth on steal
now letst see here, the most popular way of gaining invis as thief is dp #5 and #2
meaning you see a circle on the ground, and the start of the heartseaker, one daze, knockback, interrupt etc will destroy the stealth combo
CnD has been mentioned above

1. plus #2 Shortbow (clusterbomb)
   thief needs to stand within a small circle
   the dust is visible to everyone, very easy to spot, simply stand in/near the circle to let him hit you once with the bomb
   thief revealed

thieves stealth is so easy to counter

oh i forgot the heal skill, 3/4 second cast time, notible sound and animation
screams interrupt

now how many stealth skills of the mesmer are easy to interrupt…. oh just 1
and if combo it with torch #4 or decoy it’s irrelevant
14+ seconds of stealth you cannot counter or foresee

give torch a 3/4 second channel time

Cloak and dagger is the absolute lowest cost stealth a thief has. You can literally do it off anything you can do damage to.

WvW that means any NPC, any wall, gate, deer, angry looking skritt etc.

In PvP that means, minions, clones, any other garbage AI running around. Besides I was under the assumption it’s mostly for steal into C&D then BS while your opponent is dazed/stunned with basi venom or steal.

As for your DP stealth cost, 5 blinds people, which makes them have to try to hit you with a normal attack to remove the blind or forces them close for said blind removal. Or they have to use a cleanse to then hit with the interrupt which generally is harder to time.

I very rarely have trouble stealthing as a thief.

As for casting MI while stealthed. That’s the troll high uptime Mesmer build, fix the torch trait and people will stop doing it as saving the elite for disengage is better than sitting in stealth for 15s.

Anyone else doing that is either on the ropes and needs to escape or is a bad mesmer, either way it should be little worry to any half decent thief.

apharma.3741:

Cloak and dagger is the absolute lowest cost stealth a thief has. You can literally do it off anything you can do damage to.

WvW that means any NPC, any wall, gate, deer, angry looking skritt etc.

In PvP that means, minions, clones, any other garbage AI running around. Besides I was under the assumption it’s mostly for steal into C&D then BS while your opponent is dazed/stunned with basi venom or steal.

technically you are right, but you don’t always have somthing to cnd of off, and a smart player will just kill the mob or kyte away
plus the ini cost is very high for a skill that NEEDS to hit something, compared to dp, the range is very small and you need to get close to the enemy
the steal CnD BS combo is very basic for CnD
but it still doesn’t work all the time, since the enemy mostly moves it results in you missing the steal cnd and needing to re-cnd
meaning you have 1 to 2 ini left, congrats

DaShi.1368:

Frankly, I wonder if people are just playing against bad players or against superior mesmers. I’ve never encountered these one-shot builds or any of the problems that people are describing here and I pvp (unranked) every day with multiple classes.

It just seems that people are blaming their losses on mesmers or their bad builds (I see a lot of these) on mesmers. While I agree the mesmer needs some minor tweaking, it’s no where near as kittenome people are claiming it to be.

I was about to write exactly the same thing. From what I’ve seen there are a lot of bad mes out there in PvP (probably new people trying to get some of that supposed OPness), and failing miserably. The only build I’ve encountered that is more annoying than anything is chaos armour traited with protection, combined with stealth and blink adds a lot of survivability. It’s like fighting a necro but without the damage. With that build an amateur just gives you the round around until another team player (either side turns up). Burst has little effect on these guys.

As for OP mes, I’m just not meeting them in sPvP. I find most of them easy to take down with my Mes, but maybe it is because I know what to look for. I can see when I’m being set up for a shatter. Mes I’ve fought play far too defensively, and think it is a valid strategy to try to bore you to death with stealth and blink while doing little damage. Others only hit from range, and engage in melee only when they out number you. As for MoD I’ve only seen this being effective when you’re outnumbered.

If you want to talk about the top damage dealers compare how long it take each class to kill a creature in the Forest of Niflhel, or destroy a Treb in Battle of Kyhlo. Mes still doesn’t rate in the top 4.

DHawk.2687:

technically you are right, but you don’t always have somthing to cnd of off, and a smart player will just kill the mob or kyte away
plus the ini cost is very high for a skill that NEEDS to hit something, compared to dp, the range is very small and you need to get close to the enemy
the steal CnD BS combo is very basic for CnD
but it still doesn’t work all the time, since the enemy mostly moves it results in you missing the steal cnd and needing to re-cnd
meaning you have 1 to 2 ini left, congrats

That’s what differentiates a good thief from a bad thief. A good thief lands it, a bad one doesn’t. It’s the same with all classes.

A good thief doesn’t spend a long time in a fight, they +1 help grab the kill and get back to +1 other fights and decapping. They stealth on the outer edges of a fight, well, good ones and use LoS. Bad ones try and do it surrounded by people and get interrupted or just flat out murdered for their bad play.

Played some more spvp as my mesmer. Still losing fights as much as I’m winning (had a run for awhile where it was more T_T ).

If this class is face roll easy, I either lack a face or I haven’t perfected my “roll” yet. Still deciding. Tried the mantra build and I’m just unable to peel away from some classes enough. All those instant/OP ways I have to disengage seem … less OP? Do better in PU but I’m nothing more than a thief at that point, harassing for some burst and using stealth as a defensive skill since otherwise I’d die instantly (and I still do sometimes).

I logged over to my ranger and guardian (the ones I play more of in all game forms). Night and day, man. I even have the reveal on my one shout to keep mesmers or thieves from spamming on my ranger while my guardian has great survivability tools and burst.

I don’t even use the torch trait on my mesmer so maybe that is a good place to start as far as tweaking. Also the daze to stun people have talked about lightly.

But most of the crap I’ve reading? Nerfing PU or every other trait the mesmers got? You people need to go back to Salem with those witch hunts.