Guild Wars 2

I’ve been trying to figure out why I get burned out so easily playing Mesmer compared to something like Engineer, and the thing that I think is bugging me so much is that my clones die so suddenly.

I do a lot of just random PvE events with lots of other players, and single targets get burned down so quickly that my clones become either totally useless, or just another AoE to spam as soon as they’re summoned. Otherwise, they die almost upon summoning due to the mobs I’m targeting being mowed down by players.

I could be totally wrong about this, but I really don’t think it would be “too powerful” to make clones stay up as long as you’re in combat. Phantasms could still shatter when your target dies to maintain the balance, but clones themselves should just hang around until you drop out of combat/aggro, and change to attack your new target when the old one dies.

I know that shattering is a major mechanic, and it still would be. Clones are a major mechanic too, and a major contributor to the “fun” of the class. I realize they don’t do a ton of damage, but I don’t think it’s very fun to have them just be shatter-fuel. I get that they’re really useful in PvP as a decoy of sorts, but in PvE, being able to have them keep up as you switch between targets would feel a little more satisfying, without really breaking the game.

Am I totally off base, would this add a severe amount of power to the class that I’m not accounting for?

This is something I was hoping for as well, nothing worse than fast dying targets in events when you PvE and waste all your cooldowns

I was thinking this as well back during the beta, and it’s been in the back of my mind ever since. If clones still do next to no damage anyway, I’m not sure what the problem would be with having them stick around until the end of combat; when the target dies they stop attacking until you put hits on a new target, then they go after that one.

Phantasms can be left as is, on account of actually doing damage, but there are a lot of situations right now where if you want clones to do anything whatsoever you need to shatter them immediately.

It’s just such a cool, flavorful mechanic to have mirror images of yourself copying your every move. It’s fun to watch, it has useful utility in both PvE and WvW/PvP, and I honestly think it would also open up a bit more flavor in the traitlines as well, maybe adding traits that give you certain boons the longer your clones stay alive, or something.

There’s a lot of potential to make the class “feel” like it’s more fun, without necessarily having to overly complicate things or scrap entire mechanics. And I think the bulk of that would start with the ability to keep your clones around longer.

yes, please! change it

I still can’t believe people are calling for Mesmer buffs.

Anet said they knew about this issue in the beta weekend events here on the forums. And they said that they were looking over the mesmer to change this subject above.
Something in the style of "Mesmer is the most rough around the edges and we are bringing new mechanics ’ something something ’.

But no word yet about this matter.

Yes please! I don’t know why they haven’t done it yet. Clones don’t do a lot damage as is, and pretty much only serve as Shatter fuel in PvE. It sucks so hard to have a clone up, only to have your target get killed by other players in an event.

Honestly?

Just shatter them more.

Seriously, I used to want this myself, but now that I’m 80 I’ve started to understand that if my clones are surviving beyond my target’s lifespan, I’m not shattering enough. It’s not that hard to get more clones out—hell, you drop clones even if you try not to sometimes—and the same is true of phantasms (though slightly less so).

Then their target is almost dead, shatter your clones. Your AoE damage will be much higher than you’re used to and you won’t ever see your clones go away on target death again.

Agent Noun.7350:

Honestly?

Just shatter them more.

Seriously, I used to want this myself, but now that I’m 80 I’ve started to understand that if my clones are surviving beyond my target’s lifespan, I’m not shattering enough. It’s not that hard to get more clones out—hell, you drop clones even if you try not to sometimes—and the same is true of phantasms (though slightly less so).

Then their target is almost dead, shatter your clones. Your AoE damage will be much higher than you’re used to and you won’t ever see your clones go away on target death again.

I think the issue is they are dying right as they are summoned because the mobs are aoe’d down so quick in events/dungeons.

Chumsy.5714:

I think the issue is they are dying right as they are summoned because the mobs are aoe’d down so quick in events/dungeons.

This. When I’m going it alone this is way less of an issue, but the more people that are in the area with me the worse it gets. I really like the cooperation aspect of GW2, so it sucks to have to worry when I see other players in the same area as me.

I would love this, and it wouldn’t be unbalanced if this only applies to clones and not phantasm.

For me it just works as it is.
I mean, mobs dying quick because of AoEs means you didn’t have the need of your phantasms in the first place. In fact, if I want to put out my phantasms I will always choose the mob that is less likely to be caught in AoEs or quickly killed.

And from a more “logical” standpoint, I can imagine that the fact they’re illusions means they’re tied to the mob’s mind, like “generated” from their own mind to take form in the physical world. When the mob dies, there’s no more mind to sustain the illusions… That’s the way I see it.

It wouldn’t be so bad if clone generations wasn’t so slow w/o things like Mirror Image or clone on dodge. Hell I don’t even know how you’re supposed to make use of all 4 shatters in a short period of time w/o wasting the cooldown on single clone shatters.

I imagine that the challenge of making clones last is that they’re currently targeted skills, so they can’t be created unless you have something targeted.

At first I also felt that they should last beyond the target’s lifespan, but after playing a bit I actually prefer the illusions as they are now. I think the current state allows for more intricate mechanics. For instance, you can pick different clones/phantasms for different targets, which allows you to shift your pressure during combat or even spread your AoE damage.

Additionally, I’ve found that any illusions created after using any of the shatter skills, even if they’re still running to their targets, will persist. For example: if you were to use Decoy + Mirror Images for 3 clones, then hit F1 and immediately use another clone/phantasm skill, you’d temporarily have 4 clones while the first 3 are still running to the target – once these shatter, you still have the 1 from the last skill.

So if illusions persisted, where would they shatter? Who would they attack? How could you use them to achieve precisely what you have in mind? Even if the shattering skills were to be the targeted ones, you’d only be able to shatter all your illusions onto a single target. Seems too limited, in my opinion, since as it is you can shatter different illusions onto different targets if you want, possibly expanding the range of the AoE.

What does bug me is the fact that, in PvP, others can easily identify the real Mesmer by calling the target. I think that clones should mess up their targeting. They’re easy enough to kill, might as well give us a few seconds of visual confusion. Same goes for the downed state (the real Mesmer is left with a giant red arrow above his/her head).

IMO think it should be a major master trait in inspiration I think.

Perfect for Hybrid builds and phantasm specialization.

but not crazy to make power builds with constantly rofl stomping phants that last forever while you beat on/misdirect/deny hordes of enamies. (which you’ll prob do anyways)

And not making them sooo overtly obviously a better choice than shattering for shatter builds.

ofc this is just a thought without any numbers or anything like that but I think something like this would be great~