Guild Wars 2

Aveneo.2068:

If the devs were listening they would have given Mesmers another mainhand weapon like a mainhand pistol. But instead they give us another offhand weapon; bringing the total to 2 MH and 5 OH.

So no, they are not listening in my opinion.

“Just because I don’t care doesn’t mean I don’t understand.” ~Homer Simpson.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Ramiel.4931:

I still feel like ANet has lost its original vision of the mesmer. That has not changed at all.

They’re going with the flow, patching up the creaks in the class with minor QoL changes in the hopes that it works. The Chronomancer is just their attempt at shaking up the PvP meta and making room for the mesmer.

And the offhand shield is the most kitten ing evidence of the fact that they neither know nor care what we want.

If anything, the Chronomancer reveal is steering me away from the class I’ve been playing exclusively since launch and that makes me sadder than you can imagine.

Out of curiosity, what were you hoping for? (And so far all of the chrono stuff seems legit for PvE too)

Honestly I don’t even know anymore. A class based on deception and manipulation instead of a glorified bomb dispenser. Or a complete rework of the shatter mechanics to suit a character that manipulates time and not minds. They said that classes that received a one handed weapon would be as happy as those that get a 2 handed one and honestly I’m not seeing it.

They’re giving us even more choices for an offhand when we already have more than enough to suit every playstyle while severely lacking main hand options. On top of that, they’re veering away from traits that have to do with effects on clone death. That only serves to promote shatter as the go-to mode of playing mesmer. Even moreso than it already is.

The rewind mechanic will potentially pigeonhole mesmers into burst machines that have to execute a perfect sequence of buttons or they’re sub par. Naturally it can and will be used as a bait for burst or reset on a particularly powerful cooldown but these will be far and in between.

As for PvE, I’m not seeing it at all. We get a weapon clearly aimed at support and control and wells on a not very generous cooldown, as stated by ANet. Sure, wells are a nice addition to our lacking aoe options but depending on the cooldown, it may or may not be worth taking them. PvE is a zerkfest rush to deal the most dmg possible while mashing the most buttons available and while Alacrity can facilitate more spam, I doubt it will make much difference.

I love Mesmer. It’s the only class I can play without getting bored to tears within 10 minutes and it’s the only thing keeping me in the game. I just think it could have been so much more than it is. I currently view it as a glorified bomb dispenser. We get our bombs out and blow them. Stuff happens, people die and if they don’t, we die.

Rant aside though, I do see some nice potential for new PU builds and condi shatter seems to be getting somewhat better.

I just hate that kitten offhand shield so much god kitten it who thought this was a good idea should aaaaargh so much wasted potential. So kitten much.

only serves to promote shatter as the go-to mode of playing mesmer. Even moreso than it already is.

Considering every profession uses its class mechanic, I don’t think this is the worst thing ever. There are 3 distinct Mesmer playstyles: phantasm, shatter and lockdown (which is inherently a mixture of the previous two). Everything else is a flavor of one of these styles. That can be condition, mantra, PU, zerk, etc. While condition phantasm builds took a hit with clone death traits leaving, zerker phantasm builds are unchanged. I honestly don’t understand why everyone is so up in arms about Debilitating Dissipation…

The rewind mechanic will potentially pigeonhole mesmers into burst machines that have to execute a perfect sequence of buttons or they’re sub par. Naturally it can and will be used as a bait for burst or reset on a particularly powerful cooldown but these will be far and in between.

I’m glad you use the word “potentially”. While that might be what it’s mostly used for considering the most gamemode metas reward high burst, I can think of other uses for support and utility. Use your imagination.

PvE is a zerkfest rush to deal the most dmg possible while mashing the most buttons available and while Alacrity can facilitate more spam, I doubt it will make much difference.

This is a critique on PvE mechanics/design and only tangentially related. i.e. the problem isn’t exactly what they’re giving classes, it’s the environment of PvE content.

I currently view it as a glorified bomb dispenser. We get our bombs out and blow them. Stuff happens, people die and if they don’t, we die.

That’s sad that you see it that way considering I think Mesmer is very multifaceted. Especially now with these changes. You can now really set up your bombs or have things to do in between bombs being dispensed like phantasms, interrupts and support.

if the new skills and traits allow Mesmer to become not hard-countered by thieves, sure I guess I will be happy. But I doubt it would be the case. Thieves might even able to steal alacrity and completely destroy us, as is the case now.

Knox.8462:

- Making Interrupts more viable
- New traits are fun and interesting
- More Support options
- More AoE options (and even more with Chrono)
- I might finally be able to cast off my centaur runes forever!

Overall I feel we’ve been spoiled, especially in comparison to some other classes.

Disagree, also how can anyone even state were getting spoiled when none of the other classes are revealed yet?

We were the first class chosen and we are also the only class given and offhand(2-skill weapon)

You always save the best for last and the most controversial thing for your intro. People are complaining about mesmer because there are things to complain about and the devs are aware of it. However it doesn’t matter because they have several other classes to reveal and all of this will get buried from the hype and satisfaction of the other classes. They get more weapon skills right off of the bat and the changes made during the 3-trait line changes for most of the classes were minor when compared to mesmer and all there playstyles are even intact as well.

So I expect the Chronomancer and the Mesmer to get overshadowed by the other classes when there Elites are revealed. The only class that will probably see anywhere near the amount of complaints is the Necromancer as there boards are still upset over the last stream just like the Mesmer boards.

My post is also in reference to the Trait reworking.

Actually the first reveal is usually intended to be impressive (as ele was in its reveal). The rest of your post can be disregarded as inane negativity typical of these forums. You didn’t get your MH pistol, get over it.

rchu.8945:

if the new skills and traits allow Mesmer to become not hard-countered by thieves, sure I guess I will be happy. But I doubt it would be the case. Thieves might even able to steal alacrity and completely destroy us, as is the case now.

Alacrity isn’t a boon according to the devs. Although I hope I’m right that they can’t steal it..

I think they have been listening, and I’m more in alignment with that belief now that I’ve seen some of the Chronomancer’s information. I’m going to have to hold my final opinion until they give all the details and until I can rest reasonably assured that they aren’t going to also listen to the ridiculous nerf cries, that are out in full force, before the information is even completely revealed.

My main concerns at this point are the apparent short durations of alacrity, long cool downs of apparently all our new abilities, remaining/unannounced traits to support the Chronomancer, and our direct melee damage output as a Chronomancer.

Just judging by the tool tips I have seen so far involving alacrity, the effects seem very minimal. I’m not a math guy, so I’m just going to hope they balance it so that it isn’t so minimal that it isn’t worthwhile to bring alacrity to the table. Considering the fact that we will be balanced around alacrity, it needs to be as strong as benefits other professions bring.

This is a fast paced game… a lot happens in a few seconds. That being the case, I’m not a fan of long cool downs. Long cool downs end up meaning that those shiny new buttons will end up being waffled over in regards to holding back on using them…trying to find the perfect moment to actually use them. That’s usually going to mean they get used way less frequently than they actually could…to avoid having them on a cool down when you may need them in a pinch. I’m not really a fan of ground targeted aoe, but the wells do look nice. I’m just skeptical about the cool downs and relative output. PvE can generally be a zerg fest, so it is important to have decent availability of the limited slots we have. I’m aware that alacrity is supposed to play a part in this, so that’s why I’m hoping the effect is significant if played properly.

I see that the Chronomancer looks to be focused on shatters, and I don’t mind adjusting to use our class mechanic more now. What I don’t want is to have damage relegated to shatters primarily. I prefer more direct damage. I currently run a sw+foc phantasm direct damage build for PvE, but I would love to see more of our damage shift back to weapon skills. I would love to have sw+shield as my main set. I just think its time to allow more focus on direct melee damage dealing, versus shatters/condi. It looks like alacrity may be tied to this as well, as it should decrease weapon cool downs and I see a well with quickness. We just need some % damage modifiers in our new Chronomancer traits.

I can see Chronomancer shatters as similar to guardian virtues. They are our group support option in combination with wells. Guardians just tend to keep their damage output while providing exceptional group support. I hope we can be the same.

Sebrent.3625:

Yes.

While running fractals last night, some of my friends and I were talking about this a bit more about this. Each of us feels like several items from our class’s subforum’s “wishlist(s)” have been answered by the new traits. Now, we’ll have to wait and see how the various numbers get tweaked, but mechanically it looks like they’ve been listening and incorporating it in the plans they’ve been quiet about until now.

While there are still the naysayers (always are, always will be), all of the class forums are abuzz with positivity.

We’ll have to wait and see how it all truly pans out, but the current look appears nice … like we have been listened to.

They were just quietly handling it … which I can’t blame given how horrid the community seems to be to any ANet employee that so much as shows their tag.

Trait line lockdown ftw…..and oh we so wanted that too (sarcasm btw).

Caelus.7139:

rchu.8945:

if the new skills and traits allow Mesmer to become not hard-countered by thieves, sure I guess I will be happy. But I doubt it would be the case. Thieves might even able to steal alacrity and completely destroy us, as is the case now.

Alacrity isn’t a boon according to the devs. Although I hope I’m right that they can’t steal it..

I hope not either, but there’s a counter to alacrity such as chill, not sure how many other classes will be able to apply chill. What I mean is, this first reveal of Mesmers specialization is cool, but if other meta classes/builds will have access to chill and other goodies, it really does nothing to put Mesmers back into the meta, we are just stuck in the same place because other classes got great stuff too.

Mesmers have been hard countered for several years non stop by thieves.
I don’t see anything close to change that.
I would even say it will be worst with all the toxic buffs coming for thieves.
So I would say that anet has never listened…because the main point to look at first is the role of the class in all modes..at least pvp and wvw. All gimmick change is pointless as long as the poor spot the mesmer is stuck at is not changing.

I really hope I am wrong… but honnestly….what will prevent the new op thief (with only what we already saw…specialization is still to come) to chain kitten mesmer harder than before ?

PS stop with dedicated montage to explain mesmer can kill a thief…it brings nothing.

Doam.8305:

Must not play many MMO’s

It’s a completely reasonable assumption heck WoW is widely known for there FOTM classes.

Oh, and this indicates that devs have “favorite” and “disliked” classes/specs?

See, it’s funny that you bring up WoW. The game established this trend of bashing the devs for seemingly giving additional attention and/or power to classes or specs based on their personal preference.

As in, “Ghostcrawler plays XYZ”.

Funny story there, when he left he finally was allowed to talk about what he played personally, his main was a Holy Priest ever since day 1 of his position. One of the consistently weakest specs in the game.

And the lesson is, devs would risk their jobs pulling personal favorites. Plus it’s more effort than not doing so. Why should they do it? O.o

Carighan.6758:

Doam.8305:

Must not play many MMO’s

It’s a completely reasonable assumption heck WoW is widely known for there FOTM classes.

Oh, and this indicates that devs have “favorite” and “disliked” classes/specs?

See, it’s funny that you bring up WoW. The game established this trend of bashing the devs for seemingly giving additional attention and/or power to classes or specs based on their personal preference.

As in, “Ghostcrawler plays XYZ”.

Funny story there, when he left he finally was allowed to talk about what he played personally, his main was a Holy Priest ever since day 1 of his position. One of the consistently weakest specs in the game.

And the lesson is, devs would risk their jobs pulling personal favorites. Plus it’s more effort than not doing so. Why should they do it? O.o

sorry, still not buying your defense. As far as I know, I dont know this “Robert Gee” guy that presented the Chronomancer. All the other devs that we are familiar dont main a Mesmer. If Mr. Robert Gee is such a important figure, where da heck was he for the past 1+ years when Mesmer got constantly nerfs after nerfs?

Strill.2591:

Ramiel.4931:

If anything, the Chronomancer reveal is steering me away from the class I’ve been playing exclusively since launch and that makes me sadder than you can imagine.

That’s explicitly what they said they’d be doing with elite specializations.

Imo this is good, it avoids class X being played only in 1 way to be effective, creating a more “balanced” meta build will reduce the huge power gap between meta and non meta builds, creating more diversity and roles all over the classes with the specializations, it is like trying to put all classes at the same level with several builds working.
The problem ic here is the players that discovered some nich builds will not like if they have some huge competition or their build got a more balanced effect against builds that were easy by being non meta (low effectiveness of build), imo at the future we migh end with several metas instead of 1 for blob and 1 for roamming, it will deppend alot with what player feels better to play.

Wonder what happens to a thief trapped in that rubberband skill?

rchu.8945:

sorry, still not buying your defense. As far as I know, I dont know this “Robert Gee” guy that presented the Chronomancer. All the other devs that we are familiar dont main a Mesmer. If Mr. Robert Gee is such a important figure, where da heck was he for the past 1+ years when Mesmer got constantly nerfs after nerfs?

Why would it be important (or even helpful) if a dev mains a Mesmer, as far as power is concerned?
My example was exactly that the lead developer for WoW mained one of the consistently weakest specs in the game.

And it makes sense, in a way. If you’re playing class X in your leisure time, chances are that if you were to start work on their balance more than on anyone else’s, your colleagues would be annoyed that you’re doing personal favors. I reckon your boss wouldn’t much like that, either.
So if anything ,you update your class last (or you just don’t consider classes any different in the first place).

It’s also a stupid assumption: “Hey, we don’t really understand what makes a dev focus or not focus onto our class, it has to be personal favorites though! That has to be it!”
To compare, people didn’t really understand lightning and thunder back in the days, so it was Odin and Thor, gods causing these effects. But that was ofc wrong, as we found out later. Likewise, it’s quite unlikely that a dev is sitting there happily thinking up new ways to screw over a specific class out of personal spite. It’s much more likely that a mix of limited resources, class complexity, planned changes later on and money considerations prioritize classes and balance for you.

But then, no one wants to hear that, do they?

Carighan.6758:

rchu.8945:

sorry, still not buying your defense. As far as I know, I dont know this “Robert Gee” guy that presented the Chronomancer. All the other devs that we are familiar dont main a Mesmer. If Mr. Robert Gee is such a important figure, where da heck was he for the past 1+ years when Mesmer got constantly nerfs after nerfs?

Why would it be important (or even helpful) if a dev mains a Mesmer, as far as power is concerned?
My example was exactly that the lead developer for WoW mained one of the consistently weakest specs in the game.

And it makes sense, in a way. If you’re playing class X in your leisure time, chances are that if you were to start work on their balance more than on anyone else’s, your colleagues would be annoyed that you’re doing personal favors. I reckon your boss wouldn’t much like that, either.
So if anything ,you update your class last (or you just don’t consider classes any different in the first place).

It’s also a stupid assumption: “Hey, we don’t really understand what makes a dev focus or not focus onto our class, it has to be personal favorites though! That has to be it!”
To compare, people didn’t really understand lightning and thunder back in the days, so it was Odin and Thor, gods causing these effects. But that was ofc wrong, as we found out later. Likewise, it’s quite unlikely that a dev is sitting there happily thinking up new ways to screw over a specific class out of personal spite. It’s much more likely that a mix of limited resources, class complexity, planned changes later on and money considerations prioritize classes and balance for you.

But then, no one wants to hear that, do they?

to your point, is this Robert Gee a lead developer for GW2? Up until Chronomancer info has been posted, I have never seen his name before. To me it is important if a lead dev plays Mersmer because you can assume the dev will understand the pluses and minuses of the class. Sorry to be a negative nancy here, but my whole take on the Chronomancer and other new traits for Mesmer is simply be measured against the hard-counter class (or classes) that Mesmer currently (and will) have. It doesn’t matter how good they are if other classes have better stuff to use against Mesmer. If Mesmer continue to need other PvP team members to peel for them, and be hard countered by popular classes with no weapon cooldown in Thieves and Revenants, it’s pointless to play Mesmer in PvP.