Guild Wars 2

In my opinion:

Domination tree: I really like what I am seeing here. The GM traits look really good (Honestly all of the traits look great) and I am looking forward to using that tree

Dueling: Dueling looks really strong. The pistol trait halving your cds when you interrupt someone, having mirror for 2 sec after dodge, aoe blind on shatter are really strong. It is a shame I would have to choose between De and mistrust, but I guess its the price we pay for having Ielasticity and IP baseline.

Chaos: Honestly, a lot of the traits aren’t very good. The GM traits are great (LOL PU), but 2 out of 3 adept and master traits aren’t worth taking atm. This traitline needs more buffs.

Inspir: This traitline is very interesting to me. It looks really strong utility wise, and I am looking forward to try it out. The fact I can get restorative illusions and shattered condis in 1 build is great. I am also very interested in the illusionary inspiration trait to see where that goes.

Illusions: This traitline is basically the condi god tree. Scepter trait is incredible, an with so many ways to get confusion, that the cds wont be existant. This definatly is a condi line now.

Mental Torment/GS training/Power block all seem really strong
I really like how they added mirror into a variety of traits
Manipulation range + IP will be amazing
Still no reliable condi removal in trees other than in inspiration
The trait I’m most excited for is blinding dissipation.
I think the illusions tree could be improved with illusionary invigoration.

Overall, I’m extremely excited with the mesmer changes

People, I’ve found in reddit someone made the effort to put all new traits into a spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fp5wnAi0pqu-aBCkVliwKyXoYTzBvOwGUPv1lh-cclw/edit#gid=95323670

Levetty.1279:

Frost.5017:

The mes forums here have an uhealthy stiffy for interrupts, and Fay used to be the voice of reason but something has happened to him along the way. Interrupts aren’t very reliable due to the short cast times of most skills in this game. Interrupt fishing does not equal skillful interrupting key skills.

Yeah I don’t like how a vocal minority has got Anet to focus so heavily on interrupts. If these people are so desperate for an interupt Mesmer why don’t they reinstall GW1 where that playstyle will actually be useful.

Vocal Minority?

Anet put all the original interrupt based traits in the tree to begin with. The “minority” would never have had anything to be vocal about if they werent there.

Since release Anet have made multiple efforts to buff interrupts to make them a thing.

You’re not arguing with some minority here. You’re going against Anet themselves.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Levetty.1279:

Frost.5017:

The mes forums here have an uhealthy stiffy for interrupts, and Fay used to be the voice of reason but something has happened to him along the way. Interrupts aren’t very reliable due to the short cast times of most skills in this game. Interrupt fishing does not equal skillful interrupting key skills.

Yeah I don’t like how a vocal minority has got Anet to focus so heavily on interrupts. If these people are so desperate for an interupt Mesmer why don’t they reinstall GW1 where that playstyle will actually be useful.

Vocal Minority?

Anet put all the original interrupt based traits in the tree to begin with. The “minority” would never have had anything to be vocal about if they werent there.

Since release Anet have made multiple efforts to buff interrupts to make them a thing.

You’re not arguing with some minority here. You’re going against Anet themselves.

Things Anet did because people couldn’t get over that the combat in this game isn’t the same as the combat in GW1 and kept asking to make Mesmer an interrupt class.

Interrupts aren’t ever going to be worth anything unless Anet reworks the entire combat system. It makes about as much sense as if CoD players started demanding a bunch of perks and weapons that makes the player feel like they have the tactical depth of playing Swat 4 while everybody else carries on running around 360 no scoping you.

Levetty.1279:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Levetty.1279:

Frost.5017:

The mes forums here have an uhealthy stiffy for interrupts, and Fay used to be the voice of reason but something has happened to him along the way. Interrupts aren’t very reliable due to the short cast times of most skills in this game. Interrupt fishing does not equal skillful interrupting key skills.

Yeah I don’t like how a vocal minority has got Anet to focus so heavily on interrupts. If these people are so desperate for an interupt Mesmer why don’t they reinstall GW1 where that playstyle will actually be useful.

Vocal Minority?

Anet put all the original interrupt based traits in the tree to begin with. The “minority” would never have had anything to be vocal about if they werent there.

Since release Anet have made multiple efforts to buff interrupts to make them a thing.

You’re not arguing with some minority here. You’re going against Anet themselves.

Things Anet did because people couldn’t get over that the combat in this game isn’t the same as the combat in GW1 and kept asking to make Mesmer an interrupt class.

Interrupts aren’t ever going to be worth anything unless Anet reworks the entire combat system. It makes about as much sense as if CoD players started demanding a bunch of perks and weapons that makes the player feel like they have the tactical depth of playing Swat 4 while everybody else carries on running around 360 no scoping you.

Maybe the majority should be more vocal, or else nobody can listen to them~

And it’s not like the blunt instrument of “Power Shatter” is gone. In fact, it can be more potent with the Domination changes, giving a clear and strong path for direct damage:
Domination Traits [Rending Shatter] [Shattered Concentration] [Mental Torment]

Rending Shatter confirms vulnerability, which itself increases damage while also proccing the 10% extra damage from the Fragility minor trait in Domination. Shattered Concentration because boon ripping. And Mental Torment, because it’s clearly been buffed to the extent of being called a true GM.

They buffed Power Shatter. I don’t see the problem with buffing other specs people have already been running to match up. Interrupt Mesmers have been shown to be effective currently, despite not being up to par with the current meta, yet skill caps can help overcome that. If it’s a build that can overcome average players with above average play, then should it be buffed it should be able to, theoretically, stand to par with our current vision of meta. Same with condition mesmer, and phantasm mesmer. Power Shatter’s strong now and will still be, so instead of throwing resources at expanding a single build-type, isn’t ANet doing as we asked and expanding what we can call a viable diversity?

Thus, I don’t feel I understand your complaint with certain aspects of our class being brought to bloom. Where would you have liked to see the changes go?

Finally, they give Mesmers some more Confusion access … anyone else wondering how Mistrust and Glamours might synch up?

Levetty.1279:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Levetty.1279:

Frost.5017:

The mes forums here have an uhealthy stiffy for interrupts, and Fay used to be the voice of reason but something has happened to him along the way. Interrupts aren’t very reliable due to the short cast times of most skills in this game. Interrupt fishing does not equal skillful interrupting key skills.

Yeah I don’t like how a vocal minority has got Anet to focus so heavily on interrupts. If these people are so desperate for an interupt Mesmer why don’t they reinstall GW1 where that playstyle will actually be useful.

Vocal Minority?

Anet put all the original interrupt based traits in the tree to begin with. The “minority” would never have had anything to be vocal about if they werent there.

Since release Anet have made multiple efforts to buff interrupts to make them a thing.

You’re not arguing with some minority here. You’re going against Anet themselves.

Things Anet did because people couldn’t get over that the combat in this game isn’t the same as the combat in GW1 and kept asking to make Mesmer an interrupt class.

Interrupts aren’t ever going to be worth anything unless Anet reworks the entire combat system. It makes about as much sense as if CoD players started demanding a bunch of perks and weapons that makes the player feel like they have the tactical depth of playing Swat 4 while everybody else carries on running around 360 no scoping you.

As an avid interrupt player I gotta say, I’ve had no problem working them into the current combat system. I’m sorry you’ve had so much trouble.

The good news is interrupt is only slated to get stronger. So long as you’re good enough to land your rupts + damage I suppose :/

Advent.6193:

Finally, they give Mesmers some more Confusion access … anyone else wondering how Mistrust and Glamours might synch up?

Im still skeptical since I dont see the Dazzling glamours trait anywhere

In domination swap mirror with deceptive evasion. That way you’re keeping the pve phantasm /reflect players happy and also the pvp shatter guys. There’s really little difficulty in choice or usefulness for pve grandmasters as it stands.

StickerHappy.8052:

Advent.6193:

Finally, they give Mesmers some more Confusion access … anyone else wondering how Mistrust and Glamours might synch up?

Im still skeptical since I dont see the Dazzling glamours trait anywhere

I feel like if we pair up Mistrust with Master of Fragmentation, we could get some interesting condition bombing techniques with our plentiful AoE CC. In WvW terms, we hit a piece of a zerg and it splits up into multiple AoE Confusion areas with a 1-5 random interrupts, meaning 5-25 tags per interrupt, should it be placed wisely. Another fun trick might be if projectiles we reflect gain our Confusing Combatant capabilities, meaning adding our own bit of mix into enemy zergs. Hopefully this might make WvW interesting for mesmers as a place for us to take via condirupt bombs.

Dondagora.9645:

StickerHappy.8052:

Advent.6193:

Finally, they give Mesmers some more Confusion access … anyone else wondering how Mistrust and Glamours might synch up?

Im still skeptical since I dont see the Dazzling glamours trait anywhere

I feel like if we pair up Mistrust with Master of Fragmentation, we could get some interesting condition bombing techniques with our plentiful AoE CC. In WvW terms, we hit a piece of a zerg and it splits up into multiple AoE Confusion areas with a 1-5 random interrupts, meaning 5-25 tags per interrupt, should it be placed wisely. Another fun trick might be if projectiles we reflect gain our Confusing Combatant capabilities, meaning adding our own bit of mix into enemy zergs. Hopefully this might make WvW interesting for mesmers as a place for us to take via condirupt bombs.

What’s this heretical talk we speak? Mesmers, once again being able to punish braindead zerglings? I can only frigging hope

Advent.6193:

Dondagora.9645:

StickerHappy.8052:

Advent.6193:

Finally, they give Mesmers some more Confusion access … anyone else wondering how Mistrust and Glamours might synch up?

Im still skeptical since I dont see the Dazzling glamours trait anywhere

I feel like if we pair up Mistrust with Master of Fragmentation, we could get some interesting condition bombing techniques with our plentiful AoE CC. In WvW terms, we hit a piece of a zerg and it splits up into multiple AoE Confusion areas with a 1-5 random interrupts, meaning 5-25 tags per interrupt, should it be placed wisely. Another fun trick might be if projectiles we reflect gain our Confusing Combatant capabilities, meaning adding our own bit of mix into enemy zergs. Hopefully this might make WvW interesting for mesmers as a place for us to take via condirupt bombs.

What’s this heretical talk we speak? Mesmers, once again being able to punish braindead zerglings? I can only frigging hope

Only if we do it mesmer-like, striking the zergs in their densest bits to ensure mass condiruptures[Coined~]. Mistrust is the best name for this, it’s perfect. We hit dense areas full of people and make them “mistrust” each other, and get mass confusion AKA panic in turn. Love it~ It’s almost like ANet thought this was how it’d be used~

Dondagora.9645:

Maybe the majority should be more vocal, or else nobody can listen to them~

And it’s not like the blunt instrument of “Power Shatter” is gone. In fact, it can be more potent with the Domination changes, giving a clear and strong path for direct damage:
Domination Traits [Rending Shatter] [Shattered Concentration] [Mental Torment]

Rending Shatter confirms vulnerability, which itself increases damage while also proccing the 10% extra damage from the Fragility minor trait in Domination. Shattered Concentration because boon ripping. And Mental Torment, because it’s clearly been buffed to the extent of being called a true GM.

They buffed Power Shatter. I don’t see the problem with buffing other specs people have already been running to match up. Interrupt Mesmers have been shown to be effective currently, despite not being up to par with the current meta, yet skill caps can help overcome that. If it’s a build that can overcome average players with above average play, then should it be buffed it should be able to, theoretically, stand to par with our current vision of meta. Same with condition mesmer, and phantasm mesmer. Power Shatter’s strong now and will still be, so instead of throwing resources at expanding a single build-type, isn’t ANet doing as we asked and expanding what we can call a viable diversity?

Thus, I don’t feel I understand your complaint with certain aspects of our class being brought to bloom. Where would you have liked to see the changes go?

Because they ended up with extreme tunnel vision on shatter and interrupt at the expense of everything else. Clone death gone, glamour bomb gone, phantasm has no choices and will end up having to take a load of interrupt or shatter traits., nothing to help in large scale WvW or PvE, no new types of builds . Everything is now shatter, interrupt or shatter and interrupt.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Levetty.1279:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Levetty.1279:

Frost.5017:

The mes forums here have an uhealthy stiffy for interrupts, and Fay used to be the voice of reason but something has happened to him along the way. Interrupts aren’t very reliable due to the short cast times of most skills in this game. Interrupt fishing does not equal skillful interrupting key skills.

Yeah I don’t like how a vocal minority has got Anet to focus so heavily on interrupts. If these people are so desperate for an interupt Mesmer why don’t they reinstall GW1 where that playstyle will actually be useful.

Vocal Minority?

Anet put all the original interrupt based traits in the tree to begin with. The “minority” would never have had anything to be vocal about if they werent there.

Since release Anet have made multiple efforts to buff interrupts to make them a thing.

You’re not arguing with some minority here. You’re going against Anet themselves.

Things Anet did because people couldn’t get over that the combat in this game isn’t the same as the combat in GW1 and kept asking to make Mesmer an interrupt class.

Interrupts aren’t ever going to be worth anything unless Anet reworks the entire combat system. It makes about as much sense as if CoD players started demanding a bunch of perks and weapons that makes the player feel like they have the tactical depth of playing Swat 4 while everybody else carries on running around 360 no scoping you.

As an avid interrupt player I gotta say, I’ve had no problem working them into the current combat system. I’m sorry you’ve had so much trouble.

The good news is interrupt is only slated to get stronger. So long as you’re good enough to land your rupts + damage I suppose :/

As a person who has played a lot of hambow I laugh at how limited your build is and enjoy the variety of traits and builds I have if I want to move away from that build, keep jumping through those hoops in hopes of being as good as warrior at it though.

Levetty.1279:

Dondagora.9645:

Maybe the majority should be more vocal, or else nobody can listen to them~

And it’s not like the blunt instrument of “Power Shatter” is gone. In fact, it can be more potent with the Domination changes, giving a clear and strong path for direct damage:
Domination Traits [Rending Shatter] [Shattered Concentration] [Mental Torment]

Rending Shatter confirms vulnerability, which itself increases damage while also proccing the 10% extra damage from the Fragility minor trait in Domination. Shattered Concentration because boon ripping. And Mental Torment, because it’s clearly been buffed to the extent of being called a true GM.

They buffed Power Shatter. I don’t see the problem with buffing other specs people have already been running to match up. Interrupt Mesmers have been shown to be effective currently, despite not being up to par with the current meta, yet skill caps can help overcome that. If it’s a build that can overcome average players with above average play, then should it be buffed it should be able to, theoretically, stand to par with our current vision of meta. Same with condition mesmer, and phantasm mesmer. Power Shatter’s strong now and will still be, so instead of throwing resources at expanding a single build-type, isn’t ANet doing as we asked and expanding what we can call a viable diversity?

Thus, I don’t feel I understand your complaint with certain aspects of our class being brought to bloom. Where would you have liked to see the changes go?

Because they ended up with extreme tunnel vision on shatter and interrupt at the expense of everything else. Clone death gone, glamour bomb gone, phantasm has no choices and will end up having to take a load of interrupt or shatter traits., nothing to help in large scale WvW or PvE, no new types of builds . Everything is now shatter, interrupt or shatter and interrupt.

Well, I can also imagine phantasm builds depending on how everything turns out in the final set up, but I feel you’re right in that interrupt is a bigger part of mesmer, which it seemed it was always meant to be given we have CC on every weapon set. But you’re forgetting Condi. I mentioned above, I feel we might find a niche in large-scale WvW with a condirupt build centered around Mistrust, with Reflections as a secondary DPS source.

Well, in any case, we’ll still be very limited in our understanding until it releases, but I do see a potential equivalent to our previous glamour bombing on zergs.

Levetty.1279:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Levetty.1279:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Levetty.1279:

Frost.5017:

The mes forums here have an uhealthy stiffy for interrupts, and Fay used to be the voice of reason but something has happened to him along the way. Interrupts aren’t very reliable due to the short cast times of most skills in this game. Interrupt fishing does not equal skillful interrupting key skills.

Yeah I don’t like how a vocal minority has got Anet to focus so heavily on interrupts. If these people are so desperate for an interupt Mesmer why don’t they reinstall GW1 where that playstyle will actually be useful.

Vocal Minority?

Anet put all the original interrupt based traits in the tree to begin with. The “minority” would never have had anything to be vocal about if they werent there.

Since release Anet have made multiple efforts to buff interrupts to make them a thing.

You’re not arguing with some minority here. You’re going against Anet themselves.

Things Anet did because people couldn’t get over that the combat in this game isn’t the same as the combat in GW1 and kept asking to make Mesmer an interrupt class.

Interrupts aren’t ever going to be worth anything unless Anet reworks the entire combat system. It makes about as much sense as if CoD players started demanding a bunch of perks and weapons that makes the player feel like they have the tactical depth of playing Swat 4 while everybody else carries on running around 360 no scoping you.

As an avid interrupt player I gotta say, I’ve had no problem working them into the current combat system. I’m sorry you’ve had so much trouble.

The good news is interrupt is only slated to get stronger. So long as you’re good enough to land your rupts + damage I suppose :/

As a person who has played a lot of hambow I laugh at how limited your build is and enjoy the variety of traits and builds I have if I want to move away from that build, keep jumping through those hoops in hopes of being as good as warrior at it though.

I bow to your OP warrior class and ways.

Jedge.3619:

Mental Torment/GS training/Power block all seem really strong
I really like how they added mirror into a variety of traits
Manipulation range + IP will be amazing
Still no reliable condi removal in trees other than in inspiration
The trait I’m most excited for is blinding dissipation.
I think the illusions tree could be improved with illusionary invigoration.

Overall, I’m extremely excited with the mesmer changes

Power block revised? Will it work against Thieves and revenants?

rchu.8945:

Jedge.3619:

Mental Torment/GS training/Power block all seem really strong
I really like how they added mirror into a variety of traits
Manipulation range + IP will be amazing
Still no reliable condi removal in trees other than in inspiration
The trait I’m most excited for is blinding dissipation.
I think the illusions tree could be improved with illusionary invigoration.

Overall, I’m extremely excited with the mesmer changes

Power block revised? Will it work against Thieves and revenants?

Nah, but fused it with Halting Strike and buffed CD it puts on skills to 15.

Dondagora.9645:

rchu.8945:

Jedge.3619:

Mental Torment/GS training/Power block all seem really strong
I really like how they added mirror into a variety of traits
Manipulation range + IP will be amazing
Still no reliable condi removal in trees other than in inspiration
The trait I’m most excited for is blinding dissipation.
I think the illusions tree could be improved with illusionary invigoration.

Overall, I’m extremely excited with the mesmer changes

Power block revised? Will it work against Thieves and revenants?

Nah, but fused it with Halting Strike and buffed CD it puts on skills to 15.

It got weakness on interrupt too.

StickerHappy.8052:

Dondagora.9645:

rchu.8945:

Jedge.3619:

Mental Torment/GS training/Power block all seem really strong
I really like how they added mirror into a variety of traits
Manipulation range + IP will be amazing
Still no reliable condi removal in trees other than in inspiration
The trait I’m most excited for is blinding dissipation.
I think the illusions tree could be improved with illusionary invigoration.

Overall, I’m extremely excited with the mesmer changes

Power block revised? Will it work against Thieves and revenants?

Nah, but fused it with Halting Strike and buffed CD it puts on skills to 15.

It got weakness on interrupt too.

And can be traited along with CS which grants 100% stun on daze (5s cd).

Levetty.1279:

Because they ended up with extreme tunnel vision on shatter and interrupt at the expense of everything else. Clone death gone, glamour bomb gone, phantasm has no choices and will end up having to take a load of interrupt or shatter traits., nothing to help in large scale WvW or PvE, no new types of builds . Everything is now shatter, interrupt or shatter and interrupt.

You forgot condition builds. Clone death was a no-skill playstyle that needed to be removed. Glamours get a free 20% CD and can now potentially apply super speed? The amount of baseline traits we got more than compensated for anything. Some classes are never going to be effective as others in pvp or pve.

Oh my god. Mental Torment + Duelist’s Discipline is going to be unstoppable. If you get close to someone and magic bullet them, they die.

(from melee) Magic Bullet → Illusionary Leap’s clone spawn + Mirror Images → Mind Wrack + blurred frenzy. That’s going to one-shot literally anything (since you’d be able to pull off the 4-clone +50% damage shatter + blurred frenzy before the magic bullet stun wore off). And oh yeah, Magic Bullet’s recharge is cut in half if you interrupted them.

This is going to absolutely wreck face. This is taking me back to the days when you could win 5v1s with confusion in WvW…. oh good times, good times…

I really don’t like placement of GS Training trait.

In my opinion it is inconsistent with rest of weapon trait placements and in my opinion, no weapon trait should be grand master trait. Their argument was that all grand master traits should be ‘playstyle defining’ – but picking weapon is already playstyle defining a lot and putting it into grandmaster category (and putting only one from all weapon choices there) makes no sense and can kitten that weapon choice.

Levetty.1279:

Because they ended up with extreme tunnel vision on shatter and interrupt at the expense of everything else. Clone death gone, glamour bomb gone, phantasm has no choices and will end up having to take a load of interrupt or shatter traits., nothing to help in large scale WvW or PvE, no new types of builds . Everything is now shatter, interrupt or shatter and interrupt.

I think it is not very deliberate to accuse a group of people of being a minority while indirectly suggesting that onself might part of a more important but quiet majority. But that might just be me.

It is understandable that you get frustrated if decisions are made which do not reflect your personal preference or playstyle. But the devs have been very open and considerate and shared their point of view when it comes to the previewed changes. And they made reasonable arguments.

Shatter and interrupts have always been a core of the Mesmers class but they especially the latter fell short. Clone on death had a huge conflict with our class mechanic and we already new the devs disliked it. So yeah, now it’s gone. This definitely sucks if you currently play a related build. But that doesn’t mean build diversity has been gutted since they offered us alternatives for conditions. On the long run this change is very likely to be a healthy decision for the class as a whole.

Personally, I was very upset about so many Glamour traits being removed. I love Glamours and I wished they’d put more effort in salvaging the offensive traits. Them saying that Glamours are now purely defensive/supportive feels extremly random and like the easy way out. BUT: I’m almost certain we are missing the bigger picture here. We will very very likely gain offensive area effects through the Chronomancer specialization. We don’t know to what extent and how it will work. But I’d bet my right ball on it. So again: Glamours might have changed their focus as a utility group but it is very unlikely they took this kind of playstyle away from us. It will just be different.

When it comes to Phantasm build I personally think it’s ridiciulous to imply we currently have build diversity. We don’t. There might be very slight differences depending on weapon choice. Some people might forgo one damage modificator to get another trait elsewhere. But that’s about it.
Will Phantasm builds lose anything when the previewed changes were implemented? Not really. Well… let’s say ‘not very much’. But is there anything significant that you miss? The changes actually offer better options for condition based Phantasm builds which is way more diversity than we see right now.

It appears that you are upset about the amount of Shatter and Interrupt GM traits. Understandable if you dislike both playstyles. However, my point is that you don’t really lost anything besides Clones on death traits while the devs came up with alternatives. I feel that they did a very solid job on the Mesmer so far although there are some things they should look at. One thing I’d agree on: Illusions is a mess of Shatter traits now. They have to either provide a non-Shatter GM trait or move the Phantasm traits elsewhere.

Quick look around,
Should have said Chaos in PvP, forgot this subforum is so dense.

• Interrupt = Domination (CS+Shattered Concentration+PB) / Dueling (Ddiscipline+Blinding Dissipation+HM or DE) / Chaos (MoM+Chaotic Dampening+CI)

• Shatter base = Domination (CS+Shattered Concentration+Mental Torment) / Dueling (DDiscipline+Blinding Dissipation+DE)
  + One of these :
• Power shatter variant = Illusions (CP+SoaF+MoF)
• Support shatter variant = Insipration (Mender’s/Restorative Illusions/Shattered Conditions)
• Shatter/Interrupt variant = Chaos (MoM/Chaotic Dampening/CI)

• Condi shatter = Dueling (Ddecoy+Blinding Dissipation+DE) / Chaos(MoM+Chaotic Dampening+CI) / Illusions (Pledge/MalliciousS/Miam)

• PvE no reflect = Domination (Empowered Illusions+Blurred Inscriptions+Mental Torment) / Dueling (Ddiscipline+Blade Training+HM) / Illusions (CP+Phantasmal Haste+MoF)

• PvE reflects = Domination (Empowered Illusions+Blurred Inscriptions+Mental Torment) / Dueling (Phantasmal Fury+Blade Training+HM) / Insipration (Mender’s/Warden’s Feedback/Illusionary Inspiration)

• PvE when the guard rerolls thief DPS = Domination (Empowered Illusions+Blurred Inscriptions+Mental Torment) / Insipration (Mender’s/Warden’s Feedback/Temporal Enchanter) / Illusions (CP+Phantasmal Haste+MoF)

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Quick look around, Chaos is a musthave everywhere…

• Interrupt = Domination (CS+Shattered Concentration+PB) / Dueling (Ddiscipline+Blinding Dissipation+HM or DE) / Chaos (MoM+Chaotic Dampening+CI)

• Shatter base = Domination (CS+Shattered Concentration+Mental Torment) / Dueling (DDiscipline+Blinding Dissipation+DE)
  + One of these :
• Power shatter variant = Illusions (CP+SoaF+MoF)
• Support shatter variant = Insipration (Mender’s/Restorative Illusions/Shattered Conditions)
• Shatter/Interrupt variant = Chaos (MoM/Chaotic Dampening/CI)

• Condi shatter = Dueling (Ddecoy+Blinding Dissipation+DE) / Chaos(MoM+Chaotic Dampening+CI) / Illusions (Pledge/MalliciousS/Miam)

• PvE no reflect = Domination (Empowered Illusions+Blurred Inscriptions+Mental Torment) / Dueling (Ddiscipline+Blade Training+HM) / Illusions (CP+Phantasmal Haste+MoF)

• PvE reflects = Domination (Empowered Illusions+Blurred Inscriptions+Mental Torment) / Dueling (Phantasmal Fury+Blade Training+HM) / Insipration (Mender’s/Warden’s Feedback/Illusionary Inspiration)

• PvE when the guard rerolls thief DPS = Domination (Empowered Illusions+Blurred Inscriptions+Mental Torment) / Insipration (Mender’s/Warden’s Feedback/Temporal Enchanter) / Illusions (CP+Phantasmal Haste+MoF)

You do realize that less than half of the builds you just posted use the chaos line? Hardly ‘everywhere’.

Fay.2357:

You do realize that less than half of the builds you just posted use the chaos line? Hardly ‘everywhere’.

You beat me to it.

Xaylin.1860:

Fay.2357:

You do realize that less than half of the builds you just posted use the chaos line? Hardly ‘everywhere’.

You beat me to it.

Rofl.

Speaking of zerg builds, forget about condi spreading. The fact that we will still only be able to apply a few stacks of confusion means it won’t be worth enough.

While waiting for how Chronomancer will be, best way seems to be Dom-Cha-Insp. Trait chooses will depend on how good are PU and Mental Torment, over Chaotic Interruption and Power Block

Confusing Combatants will apply Confusion. I don’t see an ICD on it so whenever you or your illusions crit, you’ll apply Confusion – which if kept, is huge when used with Rabid.

Also, blinds and interrupts will cause Confusion as well.

They really did a good job in giving us access to more ways of applying Confusion and with the proposed traits, they want to have Confusion stick longer.

I’m still curious to see what the damage modifier we saw on Confusion was during the AMA. It showed the duration and tick but also showed a three digit number next to it so appear to have a semi-rework of Confusion to make it more punishable.

phokus.8934:

Confusing Combatants will apply Confusion. I don’t see an ICD on it so whenever you or your illusions crit, you’ll apply Confusion – which if kept, is huge when used with Rabid.

Also, blinds and interrupts will cause Confusion as well.

They really did a good job in giving us access to more ways of applying Confusion and with the proposed traits, they want to have Confusion stick longer.

I’m still curious to see what the damage modifier we saw on Confusion was during the AMA. It showed the duration and tick but also showed a three digit number next to it so appear to have a semi-rework of Confusion to make it more punishable.

I must admit I love the sound of the new Confusing Combatants, especially as it will come for free along with Sharper Images.

Because now Adept/Master/Grandmaster mean nothing, I took a few minutes to change the trait allocation to make some sense in traits :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1weRTxaaGunZFEEKZg-zy4x2A50GFVqSNJ7YwMtWr-jw/edit?usp=sharing

If it closes up a build you use, tell me and we’ll work it around. We may still have time to change this, If we get something decent out of this.

EDITED

• Moved some traits in Dueling to save PvE builds w/o hitting PvP builds.
• Mistrust makes no sense in Dueling, its a Interupt/Condi and thus should be in Chaos so people can pick it w/o speccing in Dueling or by taking a better trait (DE) instead.
• MoM is in Dueling
• Merged Compounding Celerity + Vigorous Revelation (can be reverted back, there’s place)
• Moved Sum of All Fears down, is a combo with Torment damage +50%
• Persistence of Memory is now GM but recharges Phantasms on Phantasm death
• Merged 2 Illusion minors
• Moved Protected Phantasms back, but we need an illusion GM in Illusions, it only makes sense with PH and Celerity and C.Power.

I like protected phantasms being in Inspiration. Moving it to illusions would make us lose quite a lot of our new possibilities to be meaningful in zergs.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

…

A big chunk of stuff like this comes down to individual taste. When it comes down to your suggestions, I personally just don like them. I don’t see a benefit.

• Master of Manipulation being in Chaos is perfectly fine. There is no build being destroyed when not having it in Duelling. How should it be when it’s not even in Duelling right now?
• Mistrust will be awesome with the new Duelists Discipline. In general, Duelling has become a crit and condition line. So it does make sense there.
• Tiers still do make a difference. GM are supposedly the stronger traits and you will have to make a choice. In your suggestion, DE quite significantly outshines its alternatives for most builds. You also destroy the opportunity to use DE plus Blinding Dissipation.
• Evasive Mirror as it stands hardly is able to compete with HM and DD.
• The rearrangements in Illusion (Minors) just weaken the traitline as a whole.
• Protected Phantasms is way better suited for Inspiration than Illusions. Buffing Persistence of Memory and moving it to GM probably is a more elegant solution for Illusions.

Again, just my personal opinion.

So Mesmer:
Domination Line:

• Minors: nice
• Adept: nice
• Master: Blurred inscription the blur effect is imo only usefull when you if you could cast your signets instant! because it doesnt protect you getting interrupt and you cant say will i get high dmg in 1 second?
• Grandmaster:
  Mental Torment 25% is already a buff hmm 50% uiuiui lats make it 40% you already got +10% with your minor
  Powerblock will be mine. Interrupting is hard and so its a fair traid imo

Dueling

• Minor: Confusing Combatants you need to add a 1 second intern cd for not being op
• Adept: nice
• Master:Blade training was good yes but the offhand need something special for using this traid because its the weakest weapon atm doesnt benefit with minors is single target. If you would get te leap each time your swordman is leaping would be the needet buff to use this traid.
• Grandmaster: Harmonic Mantras I like the Idea but a good mantra player doesnt use its mantras so fast that it gives a benefit out of that. the duration from 8 seconds is to short. Especial when you need to recast one of them. then it is ferocity, which only tiggers on a critical hit. I am not sure if this isn`t a huge nerf. if you would make it for 5 targets it is defenitly something to think about also in groupplay

Chaos

• Minor: nice
• Adept: normal, nothing special, nice
• Master: nice (long cd), nice, Protection is back hehe
• Grandmaster: PU: 100% stealth is too much 50% is too less for some skills. think about adding 2 seconds wouldn`t be too op
  Bountiful Disillusionment: groupplay + stability for you is something i realy missed on mesmer

Inspiration

• Minors: here i see a problem with the first 2 not working together you will take off the retaliation when you have the Protected Phantasm and to say it in wvw you need that so please give the intern cd for protected phantasm away and add some retal time
• Adept: nice
• Master: here you have to coose between 2 shatter skills? or Combounding Celerity it when your illusion dies you get 1 s swiftenes which is not much make it 2 s please!!!
• Grandmaster: nice

Illusions

• Minor: nice
• Adept: nice
• Master: nice
• Grandmaster: hmm i know there is a traid to blind on shatter Blinding Beffuddlement is single target +5s internal cd, does have the 33% confusion yes! But there is Maim the Disillusioned is AoE without internal cd and does more dmg hmm
  dont know much about Master of Fragmentation yet

Poorly my PvP hybrid build doesnt work any more at all the spirit was you just run summon your phantasm and the opponent is trying to chase you and forget about the phantasm which have high dmg + condis to annoy them and does have a short attack rate. Here the link if someone wants to have a lought in pvp after reading.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRAra8clknpVtNqxDNcrRiqhcynVRZ30kKQJ78B-TZBFwAOOIADOBAJeAAVLDA4IAAA

After suggestions and comments :

Modded traits ~
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1weRTxaaGunZFEEKZg-zy4x2A50GFVqSNJ7YwMtWr-jw/edit?usp=sharing

• Moved some traits in Dueling to save PvE builds w/o hitting PvP builds (nobody in PvP cares for Blade training at its current state).
• Mistrust moved to Chaos so Lockdown can always pick it and still have MoM (because DE is in Dueling)
• MoM is in Dueling so everyone can benefit from it (PvE, Shatter, Lock)
• Merged Compounding Celerity + Vigorous Revelation and placed to Adept so people can pick the other Shatter trait too in Master.
• Moved Sum of All Fears down, is a combo with Torment damage +50%
• Xaylin: Persistence of Memory is now GM but recharges by 33% per shatter. That’s one phantasm build trait needed, makes sense with PH and Celerity and C.Power.
• Merged 2 Illusion minors
• Moved Protected Phantasms back,

The point is to make PvE mesmer more appealing WITHOUT hitting common sense PvP builds. Because you don’t play PvE doesn’t mean you have to refuse a change in that direction, same applies to me so if you think I am breaking PvP with my changes tell me so.

I think they misinterpeted the who “Mesmers work to confuse their opponents” to applying confusion rather than weaving in and out of clones to conceal our postion….thats a lot of confusion apply.

Lucky though we already had previous exprience with giving out too much confusion ( glamour nerf, runes of perplex nerf) to trust this fart that most likely will end up as a shart. — expect a post PB-alike nerf 3-4 days after drop

Kinda fenceline with this one – have to see how it plays out

1 thing for sure though – RIP mesmer profession 2015. 3 years after launch they are finally removing Retaliatory Demise – most highly used top skill cap trait ever

I can’t believe what I am seeing here. All we have is shatter and interrupt, condi is still shatter, both kinds of build are useless in PvE and large scale WvW. They have gutted the class in PvE and it was never that good to begin with. 1 sec of super speed does not make a build, especially when they have removed the offensive glamour traits. Clone death builds were the closest we could get to speccing defensively and the only thing we had going for us against people constantly in stealth, now we have neither.

Maim shatter and Power shatter have both been buffed but all that means is that they still might stay on par with every other classes buffs and with the insane buffs theifs are getting they are still going to chase us out of any serious PvP.

At best Chronomancer might give us an actual control build with access to slows and such but they have already said they are tying it to shatters.

Levetty.1279:

I can’t believe what I am seeing here. All we have is shatter and interrupt, condi is still shatter, both kinds of build are useless in PvE and large scale WvW. They have gutted the class in PvE and it was never that good to begin with. 1 sec of super speed does not make a build, especially when they have removed the offensive glamour traits. Clone death builds were the closest we could get to speccing defensively and the only thing we had going for us against people constantly in stealth, now we have neither.

Maim shatter and Power shatter have both been buffed but all that means is that they still might stay on par with every other classes buffs and with the insane buffs theifs are getting they are still going to chase us out of any serious PvP.

Oh boy. You really enjoy being pessmistic, don’t you?

• There are plenty of new traits which encourage and support non-shatter condition builds. Yes, some are interrupt – which you apparently hate – but I guess… ‘Bad luck’?
• Offensive Glamour traits haven’t been viable for ages so they didn’t really take away from us there. If you feel the need to ignore the fact that we will most likely get offensive/CC area effects with the Chronomancer, be my guest and give in into your mood of doom.
• They barely touched Phantasm builds and yet you are annoyed as hell. What exactly did they take from you what you desperately need? The +15% Phantasm damage in Inspiration? Which has become baseline?
• Fragility and the HM will buff our personal DPS in PvE. It probably will not make us top notch but nobody has been gutted. You are being overly dramatic here.
• Clones death builds don’t have anything to do with playing definsively but rather than playing passively. The only defensive thing about it was Weakness (which didn’t have a high uptime anyway) and maaaaybe Cripple. Clones death traits also didn’t help against (moderately skilled) Thieves.

There actually isn’t much new which will help us against Thieves in PvP. I’ll give you that. But none of the stuff you are complaining about would have helped us with that issue. Leaving things like Power Block aside, I believe that Thieves need to be tuned down against Mesmers and not Mesmers tuned up against Thieves.

Levetty.1279:

At best Chronomancer might give us an actual control build with access to slows and such but they have already said they are tying it to shatters.

Which will be perfectly fine when it does not require a target.

Levetty.1279:

I can’t believe what I am seeing here. All we have is shatter and interrupt, condi is still shatter, both kinds of build are useless in PvE and large scale WvW. They have gutted the class in PvE and it was never that good to begin with. 1 sec of super speed does not make a build, especially when they have removed the offensive glamour traits. Clone death builds were the closest we could get to speccing defensively and the only thing we had going for us against people constantly in stealth, now we have neither.

Maim shatter and Power shatter have both been buffed but all that means is that they still might stay on par with every other classes buffs and with the insane buffs theifs are getting they are still going to chase us out of any serious PvP.

At best Chronomancer might give us an actual control build with access to slows and such but they have already said they are tying it to shatters.

Really you haven’t thought about impacts of new changes in most builds.

• Power shatter is the most useful mesmer build for large scale WvW. Now its damage will be buffed, and in the same build we will bring a lot of support. That means we have a possibility to be more that a veilbot.
• PvE will probably see the condi cap removed and burning and poison will be stack-based. Condi staff clone build might have its place thanks to being able to mantain +15 perm stacks of bleeding, confusion and burning just with autoattacks.
  Also phantasm build has been buffed to be able to bring more support while keeping the damage.
• Clone death builds were one of the most lame thing in the game, and since the last small nerfs introduced, they have lost some of their power and nowadays are OK builds, far from being op.
  Also, in the future we will have the tankiest useful build mesmer community has ever seen when speccing Chaos-Inspiration-Illusions.
• MtD has never been part of the top pvp (neither any condi build). Power shatter now will become lockdown shatter, and lockdown builds are the biggest mesmer thread for thieves.
  Also, with the introduction of the new map, mesmer might have a place in top pvp thanks to its unique mechanics, powerful in that map.

“I’m perfectly fine with no build diversity, nothing to help me in one of the main gameplay modes, being removed from an other by one class and being dragged into the third just to give veil and portal and I still think the combat in this game is exactly like GW1” -Mesmer Board

No wonder Anet treats the class as a joke. I’ll be hear to say I told you so when the other classes just march right over you with their actual useful changes.

BTW the only thing thats going to readjust the Mesmer vs Theifs match up is a complete rework of stealth or taking Mesmers away from shatter. Two things this board does not want.

Xaylin.1860:

Levetty.1279:

I can’t believe what I am seeing here. All we have is shatter and interrupt, condi is still shatter, both kinds of build are useless in PvE and large scale WvW. They have gutted the class in PvE and it was never that good to begin with. 1 sec of super speed does not make a build, especially when they have removed the offensive glamour traits. Clone death builds were the closest we could get to speccing defensively and the only thing we had going for us against people constantly in stealth, now we have neither.

Maim shatter and Power shatter have both been buffed but all that means is that they still might stay on par with every other classes buffs and with the insane buffs theifs are getting they are still going to chase us out of any serious PvP.

Oh boy. You really enjoy being pessimistic, don’t you?

Try reading down Levetty’s post history once in a while. Half way down you’ll start to wonder if he want’s to keep on living. By the end you’ll have the same question for yourself :p

All I’ll say is, I never had the inkling to uninstall when shield was announced. It still never crossed my mind upon seeing the new trait system. More fun for us I guess.

@ Ansau.7326 : No, conditions won’t work in PvE (slow ramp up) but you’re right on everything else.
@ Xaylin : Fragility is sure an awesome trait but HM got hit by the PvP-bat (Kinda like a nerfbat but in GW2 and doesn’t always equal a nerf) and has some drawbacks for 4-mantra Autoattack 66002 builds.

• By the time you reach a fair % boost you’ll drop your target down OR it’ll be still alive after 8 seconds
• Active boost makes sense in PvP where you want to use your mantras but in PvE they have few to no use
• Condition cleanse is barely used (Guardian/Ele)
• MoP is a slow channel thus a DPS loss
• Daze is less requiered and can’t be spammed like MoP (higher value than raw damage)
• Stability is barely used (Guardian)
• Healing is situational and shouldn’t be wasted

It used to be a steady 12% damage mod (Heal+Stability+Cclear with Feedback being always on bar). Now it’s 10% with Fragility and extra +4’s or 8’s from time to time with HM. If we take into account the old +5% Minor (I didn’t, it was broken or unreliable iirc) it’s not a fair trade but overall the Minor on its own is already a boost, moreso for those who didn’t play Mantras but Glamours instead. I for one play Signet/Glamour and I love that +10 freebie.

@ Levetty : We didn’t get gutted in PvE, the way we stack DPS has changed.

Going through my post history just shows you have no argument and you take forums too seriously.

But no keep trying to insult me for pointing out the truth.

ppl thunk that chornomnacer gonna be great
but does it only bring 2 skills with shiled and probably 1-2 trait attached to it

i dont think we could spam frequenly slow movement and skills

Levetty.1279:

Going through my post history just shows you have no argument and you take forums too seriously.

But no keep trying to insult me for pointing out the truth.

My apologies if you felt insulted, not my intention. Try not to take the forums to seriously.

Exploring your post history was an exercise in sating curiosity. It had nothing to do with making arguments. Your statement is fallacious btw but I won’t hold it against you. Still, you should watch that.

Power to the people, keep fighting for the truth, brother! /Fist in air/

messiah.1908:

ppl thunk that chornomnacer gonna be great
but does it only bring 2 skills with shiled and probably 1-2 trait attached to it

i dont think we could spam frequenly slow movement and skills

It got the devs excited. At least they stated mes was the thing they were most excited about.

Figuring out exactly what that means though..

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