Guild Wars 2

So, I’ve decided that I want to try out Melee Mesmers in Explorable Mode Dungeons.
I simply get bored 234’ing GS in range all the time.

Does anyone have experience with this and would like to share?
Obviously I’d use 1h sword and either sword of pistol offhand, not sure yet (though sword sounds nice due to extra block and the fact that one single trait lowers the CDs of both main and offhand). Additionally I’ll try to stack defensive stats and traits as much as possible and roll/evade/distortion/block etc.

What I’m wondering though is if it’s even possible to survive in explo mode as a mesmer in melee? I know even guardians and warriors struggle sometimes, and I fear I’d simply get one-shotted if something happens to scratch me once, be it a boss hit, some aura of the boss, whatever.

I’ve watch some videos, and you know what those “melee” mesmers do? Jump in, sword#2, eat a hit -> instant down, switch to GS, spend rest of the fight in range.
What I’d rather like to see is ie. open with staff chaos storm, jump in with sword#3, blow CDs, switch to staff, chaos armor, survive somehow (maybe even with evade-clones), switch back to sword, etc. You know the drill.

So, is this possible? Or would you just say it’s pointless to try melee in explorable modes? If it’s possible, does anyone have an idea on how much defense (Toughness+Vitality) stats one would approximately need? Ofc I won’t get enough def stats to tank multiple hits, but I need enough time to react and roll out / use distortion.

Thanks :-)

If you’re talking about SITTING in melee, tanking on a constant basis, I haven’t had much success. HOWEVER, I’ve been running a GS + sword/sword 20/20/0/0/30 shatter build (geared power/prec/crit dmg) VERY successfully in EM dungeons, farming bosses with my group that for some reason people deem “impossible” such as the magg event, giganticus, and a few others. Some bosses, unfortunately, you simply can’t afford to melee (Giganticus in Arah). However, I spend a lot of time on most bosses weaving in and out of melee range, swapping weapons often. Getting the sword trait that reduces cooldowns is great for survivability, as that boosts the immunity uptime on Sword 2 to 25%, which is huge. Add in some dodging for avoiding cleaves and spawning clones, as well as the occasional “F4” shatter (distortion), and you’re immune a massive chunk of time. I actually kill some bosses purely in melee with s/s.

If you have specific boss questions I’d be glad to try to answer them.

I actually posted my own melee shatter build in dungeons in another thread. I’ll quote it here. I agree with Xyrm on the trait distribution, too—20/20/0/0/30 is how I roll, though I wear tankier gear (Carrion, Valkyrie, some Toughness gear, and a couple Berserker’s pieces).

You definitely need to weave in and out of melee, but I think that’s true for any profession’s melee capabilities. I don’t even think a Guardian could afford to sit in melee all the time.

Agent Noun.7350:

Here’s what I use, with a mixture of Carrion gear, Valkyrie gear/jewelry, and Honor of the Waves Precision/Toughness/Condition Damage pieces:

Weapons

• Sword + pistol
• Greatsword

Utility Skills
Take three of these depending on your needs:

• Decoy
• Mirror Images (less vital since you have Deceptive Evasion, but you really should have either this or Decoy, sometimes both)
• Feedback (not always useful, but when it is, it’s a lifesaver)
• Null Field
• Arcane Thievery (ever stolen 25 stacks of might, retaliation, and fury from a boss?)
• Signet of Illusions (helps your clones reach your target to shatter, and also helps you recharge your Distortion in an emergency)

Domination 20

• Mental Torment (+20% Mind Wrack damage)
• Crippling Dissipation (clones cripple on death)

Dueling 20

• Blade Training (20% sword cooldown reduction)
• Deceptive Evasion (clone on dodge)

Illusions 30

• Master of Misdirection (+33% confusion duration)
• Illusionary Elasticity (extra bounce for Magic Bullet and Mirror Blade)
• Illusionary Persona (of course!)

That’s right. Melee. The thing is, Illusionary Persona only affects targets that are within 400 range units of you, so you have to be pretty close to them to hit them with your own persona’s Mind Wracks and Cries of Frustration. So, why not use a sword? While this build could definitely be tankier—I have a few pieces of ruby (Berserker’s) jewelry I should replace with beryl (Valkyrie) for more vitality—it currently relies pretty heavily on invulnerability and escape mechanisms.

For defense, you have:

• 5-point Dueling minor trait that gives you Vigor every time you critically hit.
• Blurred Frenzy (2 seconds of invulnerability every 8 seconds while in melee).
• Distortion on a 45-second cooldown.
• Illusionary Persona lets you do a 1-second Distortion even if you have no clones out.

Once you exhaust all of that, pull out a greatsword, dodge or Decoy out of melee range, and prepare for your next Blurred Frenzy + shatter bomb. Meanwhile, you can use Diversion to daze enemies and keep them from bothering your allies.

Thanks for the feedback, it’s very reassuring.
I’m a bit confused about your traits though. I’m very worried about survival, so my first instinct would be to at least put some points into the Vitality/Toughness lines, probably taken from the Power-line (’cause we need Deceptive Evasion and Illusionary Persona).

Agent Noun, your build sounds very promising, though I think I’d skip the Domination traits and i.e. use the reduced dmg per illusion trait. Also, I’m wondering if Master of Misdirection (confusion damage would be quite low in dungeon situations, esp. with this build?) and Elasticity (Extra bounce only for Mirror Blade seems like a waste, esp. because I plan to utilize staff’s chaos armor and chaos storm in offhand) are worth it.

Obviously you’re more experienced than me with this build though, so I’ll definitely try some variation of it :-)

I’m very happy to hear that Melee Mesmers seem possible and are even used by some people :-)

Whether you take the Domination traits or not depends on whether you’re planning on using a shatter-based build or something that relies more on phantasms. I like both of the Domination traits because I shatter constantly, so doing 20% more damage with Mind Wrack is amazing. Plus, clones crippling the target when they die can really help with kiting if combined with Deceptive Evasion. That’s also why I take Master of Misdirection. Since I have fairly high condition damage, and since all of my shatters cause confusion, I generally have at least four stacks of confusion on every enemy at all times, and that spikes to eight or more if I use Cry of Frustration. It’s basically free damage.

I considered taking the Chaos trait that reduces damage for each illusion you have out, but since I shatter frequently that won’t really come into play very often. If you plan on relying more on phantasms, though, then you’ll probably find it useful.

If you’re not going to shatter often, then I’d skip Master of Misdirection and Illusionary Persona, as well as Mental Torment. I’d probably go 10/20/15/15/10. Take Crippling Dissipation in Domination—your enemies will be constantly crippled in dungeons. The Chaos and Inspiration minor traits will keep you almost constantly under the effects of both Regeneration and Protection if you stand near your phantasms (maybe a Warden?) and seriously lower the damage you take in melee.

I prefer to use a shatter-based build that hops in and out of melee and abuses invulnerability, but something more phantasm-based could be a bit tankier. I haven’t tried it myself, but I’d guess it might lack mobility, since a lot of its survivability depends on phantasms staying alive and the Mesmer staying near phantasms.

Hello.

I came across this thread, and I am hoping some of you might be able to offer some feedback as I am thinking to tweak my Build a bit.

I am currently using the following because I really like using my Phantasms:

15 / 20 / 0 / 25/ 10

Domination 15
- Empowered Illusions: Illusions inflict 15% more damage

Dueling 20
- Blade Training
- Duelist’s Discipline

Inspiration 25
- Persisting Images
- Warden’s feedback (if I am using Focus) or Mender’s Purity

Illusions 10
- Compounding Power

My favorite weapon combination is Sword / Pistol. I do sometimes use Sword / Focus with Sceptre / Pistol, or I will bring in the Greatsword for fights that require me to attack from range.

Ideally I would like to push my build to allow for more melee. I was considering using Sword / Pistol with Sword / Focus, but realize that I will need to take range weapons with me as melee is not always appropriate (TA Exp blossoms flashback). I was also thinking about interfacing the Sword / Pistol with Staff.

I would also like to continue to include Phantasms as well. I was reading Agent Noun’s post above, and I wondered if it might be useful to somehow work 15 points into Chaos somehow. Does anyone have any suggestions where might be best to make a reduction in another branch to accommodate this.

Also I will soon be upgrading my gear, and I wondered if anyone had any recommendations on gear selection to accommodate a more melee focused playstyle??

Thanks for any feedback you can offer.

BGirl

You don’t have to go full melee and you shouldn’t anyway.
Our force come from the synergy between melee and ranged and the constant swapping between both.

If you want to go melee more often while still being phantasm oriented, I suggest you to go sword/sword instead of sword/pistol.

The swordsman phantasm hits pretty hard and fast (probably more raw dmg than duelist, not sure) and does a leap attack (so he gets stuff like fire shield), his cd is also lower than the duelist but he doesn’t apply as many bleeds.

With the sword, you also have block which can be a lifesaver and trivializes some of the fights, it can also be used as a line Daze, not as fast as magic bullet but more controlled.

Melee as a mesmer?
You will pretty much end up dead more then anyone else, also you have to buff defensive stats so much that your dps goes even lower.
Your melee dps is way lower then for example the thief and warrior so dont even try to go melee as mesmer.

Daisai.5879:

so dont even try to go melee as mesmer.

Yeah… nah.

It’s doable, and it’s fun. You just need to be smart. I run greatsword and sword/sword or sword/pistol depending on the boss. Blurred frenzy and illusionary riposte are critical for survival, the root from illusionary leap/swap is helpful. For mobs that knock down I run mantra of concentration to break out of it and get away.

Being in mele range is a lot more dangerous and it’s not nearly as easy as just using ranged abilities, but it’s a lot more fun and more rewarding gameplay.

The sword is just two good to pass up. At some point I may be all in with condition damage but until that time, I’ll use the sword for PvE.

I would like to add, in addition to the other builds and suggestions here, that Signet of Inspiration is good for a melee/tanky Mesmer. I know the signet gets hate since they changed it to 10 seconds wait time in battle to activate, but EM battles last long enough to have it trigger many times, and that aegis, regen or protection boon popping helps survival a great deal.

I would also suggest to always have either Null Field or Mirrored Feedback to create Chaos Armor with Leap. This adds more survival to your Mesmer.

Focus, with the Focus trait, can be good for certain EMs as well. You can hit with the sword while staying behind/within the bubble of Warden’s protection. The Curtain is another reflect, but also an interrupt. I would say it’s only ideal for certain dungeons, and in general, Pistol is the most ideal and Sword close behind. Sword is probably better for Shatter builds as it creates more illusions, and it’s so nice to Shatter Swordsman directly following its attack. Pistol is better for Phantasm damage builds and will pop regen more often if you have the Phantasmal Healing trait.

As others have said, weaving in and out is a part of the sword playstyle, but that doesn’t just mean switching to the ranged weapon and then back. It also means weaving in and out of being up in the face of the mob, at an arms distance away, and then to the side or behind the mob. Remember that attacks have certain ranges and you can out-range them and then take one step back in to hit again.

I do it all the time. running sword/focus, and GS. Its a blast but you have to know when to get out. Like others have said you must weave in and out from range to melee

That is totally true. I am usually on the move quite a bit during fights, and, as Cotillion mentions above, I find this to be a really rewarding playstyle.

Yesterday I was trying to synergize this with a staff, but I find the staff to be really slow for my taste, and I found the cooldowns a bit long. I almost always have Null Field and / or Feedback as utility skills because as, etiolate says, they do also give Chaos Armor (and I swear I have seen a few other buffs from them perhaps?) as well as the functionality detailed in their description. But I do bring almost every usable weapon with me anyway and often change weapons and skills for different encounters.

For the time being, I think I will leave my build as it is and rely more on fancy footwork than moving trait points into Chaos. But I am about to have a set of exotic armor crafted, and I was thinking to have it built around Power / Precision / Condition Damage. If anyone is using any other gear sets that they are feel are more beneficial, can you please share your wisdom with me?? =)

going Melee mesmer may be fun but you do sacrifice more dps for survival. Timing blocks/dodges are critical to survival in boss fights.

http://www.gw2builds.org/create/bwe_1/mesmer#3.2.1.0-1.2.12.3.2-0.30.30.0.10-12.1.7.6.3.1.2

This is the build I run with. It generates clones to stack on bleed and conditions and allows me to do a good deal of critical damage as well. The clones, staff retreat, and maxed toughness really help me to hang in combat and feedback protects me from being a pin-cushion. Plus, it’s actually good at comboing as well to add chaos armor and keep me alive even longer.

I use S/P and S/F all the time in dungeons as my second weapon set (GS being primary.)

I have no problems with it, and in fact the teleport from S3 and the distortion from S2 have saved my life many times.

Krag.6210:

The swordsman phantasm hits pretty hard and fast (probably more raw dmg than duelist, not sure) and does a leap attack (so he gets stuff like fire shield), his cd is also lower than the duelist but he doesn’t apply as many bleeds.

Both have 20s base cd. Both goes down to 12s cd with both trait.

Yeah… nah.
It’s doable, and it’s fun. You just need to be smart. I run greatsword and sword/sword or sword/pistol depending on the boss. Blurred frenzy and illusionary riposte are critical for survival, the root from illusionary leap/swap is helpful. For mobs that knock down I run mantra of concentration to break out of it and get away.
Being in mele range is a lot more dangerous and it’s not nearly as easy as just using ranged abilities, but it’s a lot more fun and more rewarding gameplay.

Have fun playing as a melee mesmer then, i suggest you try either a thief or a warrior if you really like to play a melee class.
You can even try to make a level 1 go and do some testing on some dummies in the mist and you can see the dps difference.

Daisai.5879:

Have fun playing as a melee mesmer then, i suggest you try either a thief or a warrior if you really like to play a melee class.
You can even try to make a level 1 go and do some testing on some dummies in the mist and you can see the dps difference.

I have a thief and by far the mesmer is more entertaining to play. Even if I don’t do 13k in one hit. I don’t think anyone playing mesmer is doing it to see huge numbers on their screens.

Getting into mele in PvE and boss fights can be more difficult than AFKing and spamming the hell out of Spatial Surge, that’s true. But it’s also significantly more entertaining, and thieves can be just as squishy in those fights and they have lower health pools.

I suggest you understand that almost every style of gameplay is viable on every class if the person knows what they’re doing.

Also, don’t underestimate the sword’s auto-attack. Stripping boons off of enemies can be very important, and you’ve got enough HP to get in, evade/block some big attacks to use it to strip one or two off. Taking Protection or Regeneration off of something can make a huge difference. Granted, there are many other ways to get rid of them as a Mesmer, but just getting in there with the sword can help a lot as well.

If you do that though then it’s very important to get the hell out of dodge and switch to staff or greatsword for a while.

I’ve run a Sword/Sword Mesmer Melee build with 0/20/20/20/10 for some time now and found that Sword Mesmer has one of the highest defensive capabilities in the game. The access to Staff trait plus all the ways to proc the fields for Chaos Armor along with Signet of Inspiration is a ton of Aegis procs. The build can choose to run either Feedback or Phantasmal Defender per your tastes, the damage is definitely considerably lower than other builds, and it’s almost completely focused on reducing damage taken and utilitizing all the available free blocks and dodges.

I run with:
20 Dueling for the Clone generation, bleeding application, and sword CD reductions.
20 Chaos for the extra toughness, Staff CD Reduction, Protection from Regeneration procs, as well as the 3% per Illusion damage reduction.
20 Inspiration provides a good chunk of health along with Medic’s Feedback, Phantasmal Healing, and the Glamour Mastery
10 Illusion gives 20% Illusion summoning reduction, and a variety of supportive 10 point traits, currently been trying Illusionary Invigoration

I run this with a full loadout of Beserker or Rampagers crafted Exotics (I’m 400 Tailoring) I like Beserker gear a touch better for the burst damage it provides and the build crits plenty. Full Ruby Crafted exotic jewelry adds to the damage I do. I can always go to a full glass cannon build for a very minimal cost but this build provides me the strongest pick up group run survivability. I fully suggest this build to anyone playing a Mesmer and not worried about doing the most damage ever, winning is what I’m most concerned with. Also, if you are like me, then you find yourself leading the group and therefore will be pulling (I use various illusions to pull then dodge a couple times to make more clones to keep the group coming to us).

A note that should be touched on here is, Medic’s Feedback is VERY strong, almost too strong to be honest, it really makes many fights completely trivial.

There us no catch-all melee build. In some dungeons you can do it; in others you cannot.

Turmaine from CM exp path 2 will rock your world because of all the large aoe’s he places around himself that you can’t permanently dodge out of. There are many bosses and encounters like him.

Then there are bosses like the King Burrower in AC exp, whose one-shot screech is actually easier to avoid if you stick to melee and keep on his back.

Generally, melee is far more situational since encounters are not yet properly tuned to be sensitive to melee, since it appears bosses don’t discriminate in peppering aoe in melee range where reaction windows are shorter compared to ranged where people can spread out and have more time to react to a swing animation.

I’m running this

Domination 10 with Empowered Illusions

Dueling 20 with Phantasmal Fury and Blade Trainiing

Chaos 15 with Illusionary Defense

Inspiration 15 with Glamour Mastery

Illusion 10 with Compunding power.

I use Berserker weapons and gear, my 2 rings are power, heal, toughness and so are my earrings, rest is berserkers.

With Regen from Phantasms and toughness from regen and Vigor on crits, you’re very tough.

Utilities are always Null Field and Blink, the last 1 i change between Feedback and Phantasmal Disenchanter.